kakaars question - please give suggestions/advice

Once again, these are a set of inquisitive yet foolish questions coming from a confused and foolish person.

1.) Kara - this has to be Sarabloh, and can one wear a normal sized thin one or a little fat one would be alright as well? Is it ok to wear in both hands or just one?
2.) Kirpan - again, this has to be Sarabloh, and what size does one wear (a.) at home/work, (b.) during ishnaan, (c.) to the Gurdwara (weekly Keertan Darbaar or a frequent Rensabhai).
3.) Keski - is it ok to wear just a one at home? I am asking because most Singhs I know wear one at home, and tie a dastaar on it when going out. So I started thinking if at home one is ok with one keski or wear a full dastaar. Also, about covering ears, I have always wondered about this, as some cover their ears and some don't (gol dastaar case).
4.) Kachera - those who wear western clothes to work like pants, or who usually wear jeans may have a hard time with longer kacheras, so do they wear ones a bit smaller? I know that one needs to wear a longer one under a chola.
5.) Kangha - can we use a bit bigger one to comb the kesh and keep a smaller one in our jooRa, or keep just one? Also, do the Singhs use a kangha or a brush to comb their daaRa?

These were all "size-related" questions, and so I think its the process of transition from "bigger size kakaar" to "smaller size kakaar", or "smaller size kakaar" to "bigger size kakaar" that is making me wonder, maybe even confused. I told you, these are a set of inquisitive yet foolish questions coming from a confused and foolish person :-) . At the end of the day, its Naam kamaayee that matters, however, I only wanted to get suggestions/advice from GurSikhs who know better than me. Sincere request to please answer every question, I am still learning.

Thank you :-)

VaheguruJiKaKhalsaVaheguruJiKiFateh

(NOTE: i am NOT an expert of any kind, and am just posting what small samajh i have on this... mostly personal thoughts!)


what did panj piyaras tell you? they never said anything to me about size of kara, only that it be sarbloh. i wear it on right hand most of the time, on left hand when cleaning (i've broken glass with it!). sometimes i wear two. i've seen many gurmukhs wearing two, so i don't think it's a problem, no one has ever said anything about it!

i think most jatha singhs i know wear a smaller (5-7") kirpaan under clothes, and a larger one over top when going to gurdwara or something. the under kirpaan is a kakkar. the upper one is a shastar. i probably wouldn't try tying a 12" sarbloh kirpaan around my keskee for ishnaan! so maybe the smaller one would work better. but again, did panj say anything about this? i'd say whatever works for you.

i was told to wear two keskees. they didn't say how big they have to be. most people wear one just around the joodha and the other as a regular keskee. technically you can leave the house like this two (ladies usually wear a chunni over them), but i'd defo wear a dastaar when you go out as a singh. ears showing or not shouldn't make a bit of difference, it's personal choice. i mean, if you have an ear infection or something, it doesn't make sense to cover them, right? i'd say the majority of singhnia don't cover their ears.

again, i never heard of a set length for kachhera for jatha... i've only ever seen singhs in bana wearing longs ones (not that i know how long they are under their clothes!) but most singhnia i know wear shorter ones. the old rehetnamay say they shouldn't go past your knees... but different rehetnamay have different specifications. some say they must be white cotton, some say any material is ok. at taksali store in amritsar i have seen kachhera in brown, blue, and camouflage colors! sounds like another question for the panj!

i use a medium kanga for kes and kakkar both. i use a bigger one after kes isnaan because it's harder to comb then. yet again, panj never said anything about this.

i think maybe you think too much veerjee!
(a joke from your big sister!)

Thanks for replying bhenji :-)

I don't recall my Panj mentioning kakaar size, or transitioning between sizes. Thats why I am curious.

' if you have an ear infection or something, it doesn't make sense to cover them, right? i'd say the majority of singhnia don't cover their ears'

Covering the ears in the first place must act as some defence against an ear infection :-)

In terms of Kasherey being different colours I would say white is the most suitable only because I have never seen any Puratan pictures or paintings of Singhs depicting 'rang barangay' Kasheray and secondly white shows up dirt more easily than other colours. I'm surprised the Taksali store have decided to offer a range of colours?

Quote

Covering the ears in the first place must act as some defence against an ear infection :-)

yes and no. if you get water in your ear during isnaan and then cover it with your dastaar, the water can stay in your ear and cause infection. guru sahib and rehetnamay never said ears must be covered. they must have thought of these things.

I think that one thing that has been lost, at even the most strictest of amrit sinchars is the size and shape of the Kirpan. At most Amrit Sinchars, Kirpans are given out that are dull and unable to cut through anything! Also, from what I've experienced, Panj don't specify that Kirpan should be a certain length. Doesn't this defeat the purpose of the Kirpan. Wouldn't having an undersized dull Kirpan just make it for "ceremonial" purposes, having no ability to protect ones own life, or save someone elses. I think that Sharp "useable" Kirpans, should be mandatory, along with Punj giving the Hukam for those wanting amrit to be trained on how to use it. If we have no idea on how to use our Kirpan properly, then I think its pretty useless to carry one around. IMHO

Mehtab Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once again, these are a set of inquisitive yet
> foolish questions coming from a confused and
> foolish person.
>
> 1.) Kara - this has to be Sarabloh, and can one
> wear a normal sized thin one or a little fat one
> would be alright as well? Is it ok to wear in both
> hands or just one?
> 2.) Kirpan - again, this has to be Sarabloh, and
> what size does one wear (a.) at home/work, (b.)
> during ishnaan, (c.) to the Gurdwara (weekly
> Keertan Darbaar or a frequent Rensabhai).
> 3.) Keski - is it ok to wear just a one at home? I
> am asking because most Singhs I know wear one at
> home, and tie a dastaar on it when going out. So I
> started thinking if at home one is ok with one
> keski or wear a full dastaar. Also, about covering
> ears, I have always wondered about this, as some
> cover their ears and some don't (gol dastaar
> case).
> 4.) Kachera - those who wear western clothes to
> work like pants, or who usually wear jeans may
> have a hard time with longer kacheras, so do they
> wear ones a bit smaller? I know that one needs to
> wear a longer one under a chola.
> 5.) Kangha - can we use a bit bigger one to comb
> the kesh and keep a smaller one in our jooRa, or
> keep just one? Also, do the Singhs use a kangha or
> a brush to comb their daaRa?
>
> These were all "size-related" questions, and so I
> think its the process of transition from "bigger
> size kakaar" to "smaller size kakaar", or "smaller
> size kakaar" to "bigger size kakaar" that is
> making me wonder, maybe even confused. I told you,
> these are a set of inquisitive yet foolish
> questions coming from a confused and foolish
> person :-) . At the end of the day, its Naam
> kamaayee that matters, however, I only wanted to
> get suggestions/advice from GurSikhs who know
> better than me. Sincere request to please answer
> every question, I am still learning.
>
> Thank you :-)
>
> VaheguruJiKaKhalsaVaheguruJiKiFateh



The following is my understanding according to Gurmat Jurisprudence/law ( rehatnamey). It is possible that I may be misinterpreting some of these Ancient Maryadas.

Veer Ji I think in the old days the Singhs would at least wear two Sri Sahibs because it would be difficult to sleep and ishnaan with a big Sri Sahib so they probably kept a smaller Sri Sahib when doing Ishnaan. The following Rehatnama by Bhai Desa Singh Ji indicates that one should keep their kangha, and Kirpan on their dastar when doing Ishaan. It would be hard to do ishaan with a 3 foot Sri Sahib on the head.

ਪ੍ਰਾਤ ਇਸ਼ਨਾਨ ਜਤਨ ਸੋ ਸਾਧੇ। ਕੰਘਾ ਕਰਦ ਦਸਤਾਰਹਿ ਬਾਂਧੇ।

Plus out of respect for Sri Sahib one does not wear a big Sri Sahib when taking a shower because water can get over the Sri Sahib and make it rust.

In addition one should always wear Sarab Loh Kirpan after becoming Sikhi, because this was given to us by Guru Sahib at Amrit Sanchar
ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਕੀ ਕਰਦ ਕਾਲ ਜੀ ਦਈ

Bhai Daya SIngh Ji.

In Bhai Nand Lal Jis rehatnama there is further indication that one must be with Sarab Loh after becoming a Sikh.

ਸਿਖ ਹੋਇ ਬਿਨ ਲੋਹ ਜੋ ਫਿਰਹਿ। ਆਵਤ ਜਾਵਤ ਜਨਮੈ ਮਰੈ

Anybody can interpret Loh in the above rehatnama to mean just Kirpan, but others interpret it as meaning being with Sarab Loh. Kirpan and Karha. Others who are much more orthodox would interpret it as being with Sarab Loh Kirpan, Sarab Loh Karha, and Sarab Loh Batey. I dont think the size or quantity of Karha matters. I personally like to wear two, but I have not come to any Maryada where this is mandatory.


The Sarab Loh Kirpan should be reasonable and practical size. Nowadays many people where the approved British size Sri Sahib which really has no practical use. There is not much one can do with a 6 inch size kirpan. Before the Weapon Disarm Act during the British Raj, Singhs would wear a practical kirpan which had a purpose and was approved by Guru Sahib. Obviously many of us cant go to work with a 3 ft kirpan, but we should at least wear a size that is practical. I use to wear a small kirpan after taking Amrit because I did not know better and nobody informed that the Kipan should be acceptable to Guru Sahib.

In regards to Dastar. This is a very tricky question which confused me for a long time. When I took Amrit Panj Pyaarey told me to wear two dastara , but I did not know if this meant at all times including ishaan and sleeping. Im still unsure about this but I know for sure that the keski and dastar should be big enough that when the two are combined it looks like one is wearing a big dastar.

ਜੂੜਾ ਸੀਸ ਕੇ ਮੱਧ ਭਾਗ ਮੈਂ ਰਾਖੇ, ਔਰ ਪਾਗ ਬੜੀ ਬਾਧੇ

Bhai Daya SIngh Ji


The above rehatnama mentions that when one combs and ties their joorha then they should wear a big dastar. So for sure when going out in Public a keski by itself is not acceptable.

The colors of dastar should blue, white, and yellow.



੧ ਸੁਰਮਈ ੨ ਸਵਯੇ ੩. ਪੀਤ ੪ ਹਰਤ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਧਾਰੇ ।ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਕਸੁੰਭੇ ਕੋ ਨ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ

Bhai Daya Singh Ji


In regards to Kangha

Again the Kangha must have a practical use. If we wear Kangha but dont use it then the wearing a Kangha just becomes a ritual and we are just Sikhs on the outside ( Bheykee Sikhs) There is no purpose to use any other comb. The kangha given to us by Guru Sahib should be used twice a day out of respect for the kesh.


ਕੰਘਾ ਦੋਨਉ ਵਕਤ ਕਰ, ਪਾਗ ਚੁਨਹਿ ਕਰ ਬਾਂਧਈ।

Bhai Nand Lal Ji


In regards to Kashera. I remember reading a rehatnama where it says it must be pass the knees. Someone can interpret this as meaning pass the upper part of the knee when being put on or pass the lower part of the knee when being placed on? Sorry I couldnt find this rehatnama I think its by Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji or Bhai Nand Lal Ji. Bhai Daya Singh Ji says it should be 2 1/2 yards. Im a little bit confused by these measurements because 2 1/2 yards would be up to my feet. Either way it safe to say that the Kashera should be long and somewhere by the knee. The British style kashera ( short) is not acceptable. In addition Kashera must be white

ਕੱਛ ਸਵਰੇਤ ਔਰ ਨੀਲ ਪਟ, ਜਪੁ ਅਰੁ ਜਾਪੁ ਉਚਾਰ

Bhai Daya Singh Ji

Quote
Sukhdeep Singh
Bhai Daya Singh Ji says it should be 2 1/2 yards. Im a little bit confused by these measurements because 2 1/2 yards would be up to my feet

Veer Jee I think this is referring to the total amount of cloth required to stitch the Kacherra. I saw on TV a Singh Sahib said punj gaz (5 yards)!

i think that makes more sense... if you look at the old drawings of nihangs, they wear very baggy and large kachhera, but they just come to the knees. the bulk of the fabric seems to be around the legs?

Veer Ji thanks for the clarification. At first I thought perhaps the size was referring to the cloth needed for Kashera but I thought it would be strange for Bhai Sahib to mention the measurements of the Kashera. Perhaps the Singh on TV mentioned that 2 kashera should be panj ganj because 2.5 x 2 = 5

i remember one of the old rehetnamay saying they should be panj gaz...

but have packed my book. maybe sukhdeep veerjee can verify?

VaheguroojeekaakhalsaVaheguroojeekeefatehhh...!!!

According to Daas' mand Buddheee....

1) Karaa has to be Sarblohh but i have seen people who dont do sewa of their karaa and the sarblohh karaa goes all black..!! Thats beadbee...
You can wear it on both ur hands but its a must on the right hand..

2) Kirpan needs to be of a respectable size so that its practical use is not compromised and yeah it needs regular seva as well... a rusty sree sahib means we're careless and its beadbee...

3) Keskees should be two all the time... whether ur at home or outside... A singh is always tyaar bar tyaar.... Shaheed singhs dont like it when we go to guroosaahebs hajooree with single dastaaars.. (according to a very chardeekalaaaa singhh..) and the legth of dastaar is 10 metres atleast.. (dastaar = 10 folds)

4) Kacheras should have a respectable size irrespective of what u wear (pants or cholas)... daas wears a BIG kachera under both pants and chola.. and guroosaheb dee kirpa naal i havent faced any problems... its the most comfortable garment ever..!!
plus.. again the motive behind wearing a kashera should be kept in mind because i have seen singhs wearing really small kasheras which is totally unacceptable...

5) Again a kangha shud be of respectable size so that u can use it whenevr the need arises...

All our kakkars have a practical use... the sizes of kakkars should be practical... so that we are always tyaarbartyaar singhs...!!!!
kakkars are NOT only symbols but they are practical angs of our bosy with practical uses....

Bhul Chuk Deee Khimaa... Daas is Khin Khin Bhulanhaar....

this brings up a question in my mind...

everyone i know wears their gatra over the right shoulder and kirpaan on the left side. kara is on the right hand. this makes sense for a right-handed soldier, who must draw his sword across the body with the left hand. the kara, as well as preventing wrong actions with our dominant hand, serves a martial purpose as an arm guard of the sensitive exposed veins in the hand.

BUT

if someone is left hand dominant, would it not make sense to put everything on the other side? i know in old times (and even today in india), they forced left handed people to become right handed. my grandfather had this happen in america, and my small niece had it happen in india. but the truth is, some people are left hand dominant. shouldn't they draw their sword with the left hand (meaning gatra would go opposite way across the body?)

i haven't seen in any rehetnama (except maybe taksalee?) that the gatra must go over one particular shoulder.

just something going through my head! any thoughts? i'm not advocating changing tradition, just curious whether it's true maryada or if it is just tradition that assumes everyone is right hand dominant.

Veer Mehtab Singh jeeo,

Quote

Once again, these are a set of inquisitive yet foolish questions coming from a confused and foolish person.

These questions are definitely not coming from a foolish person but from a person who cares about Guru Sahib's rehit. It shows Bhae-Bhaavani, which is a very positive attribute for a true seeker of Vaheguru.

Quote

1.) Kara - this has to be Sarabloh, and can one wear a normal sized thin one or a little fat one would be alright as well? Is it ok to wear in both hands or just one?

Yes the Kara has to be of Sarbloh and the size should be normal or large but not too small. It is not only okay to wear it in both hands but it is also preferrable to wear it in both hands.

I have heard from Singhs that the Kakaar Kara should be worn on the right hand but some other Singhs argue that it should be worn on left hand if the individual is left-handed and on the right hand if the individual is right-handed.

Quote

2.) Kirpan - again, this has to be Sarabloh, and what size does one wear (a.) at home/work, (b.) during ishnaan, (c.) to the Gurdwara (weekly Keertan Darbaar or a frequent Rensabhai).

Yes the Kirpaan has to be Sarbloh. As Bhain jee pointed out, normally the Kirpaan worn at home is a bit smaller than the one we wear at Gurdwara Sahibaan. The full size Kirpan (3 feet) is not a Kakaar because Kakaar is such Kirpaan that can be worn all the time.

Quote

3.) Keski - is it ok to wear just a one at home? I am asking because most Singhs I know wear one at home, and tie a dastaar on it when going out. So I started thinking if at home one is ok with one keski or wear a full dastaar. Also, about covering ears, I have always wondered about this, as some cover their ears and some don't (gol dastaar case).

At home, just one Keski can be worn but when going out, Gurmukhs wear double Dastaara i.e. a small Keski and longer Dastaara.

The size of Keski should be at least so long that one may get 3 rounds around the head. Normally 2.5 to 3 yards is good. Anything smaller than 2.25 yards is too small and would not qualify as a Kakaar.

Dastaara as per Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee should be minimum 5 yards in length.

Quote

4.) Kachera - those who wear western clothes to work like pants, or who usually wear jeans may have a hard time with longer kacheras, so do they wear ones a bit smaller? I know that one needs to wear a longer one under a chola.

A Kachherra that is too small cannot be classified as Kachhera. Many wear those small Kachhas and think they are wearing Gurmukhi Kachheraas. Here are some of the features of Gurmukhi Kachhera:

1. It must be White in colour.

2. It must have brakes in the bottom i.e. the pauncha (leg opening) of the Kachhera should not slide too high up the thigh. The thigh gets fatter as it moves up and thus the Kachhera should not be able to slide all the way up. If it does, then it's not a Gurmukhi Kachhera.

3. Bhai Sahib has written that the Kachhera should be two finger (about an inch or so) above the knees but some Singhs e.g. Nihung Singhs argue that it should cover the knee cap. Either way, the Kachhera should not be too high; it should be close to the knees.

3. The Gurmukh Kachhera should not be made of such fabric that is see-through (transparent). It should be of such fabric that if the Gurmukh wearing it is to do Ishnaan, the wet Kachhera should not become transparent exposing the body beneath.

4. The Gurmukhi Kachhera should be wide enough to have enough wrinkles that wearing Kacherra alone too should maintain the modesty of a Gurmukh. If there are not enough wrinkles on the kachhera (i.e. its not wide enough) then it does not cover nangez (nakedness) and such Kachhera cannot be classified as a Gurmukhi Kachhera.

5. For a normal man, the kachera should be made from about 2.5 yards of fabric. Anything too much smaller than this is not right.

Quote

5.) Kangha - can we use a bit bigger one to comb the kesh and keep a smaller one in our jooRa, or keep just one? Also, do the Singhs use a kangha or a brush to comb their daaRa?

The Kangha kept in Kesh should be a practical one and not a show piece. One should be able to comb one's Kesh with it. Use of any other thing e.g. brush, plastic combto comb hair is not allowed for a Gurmukh.

The above is based on what this Daas has learned from books of Gurmukhs and Sangat of Gurmukh Pyare.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

1kaur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this brings up a question in my mind...
>
> everyone i know wears their gatra over the right
> shoulder and kirpaan on the left side. kara is on
> the right hand. this makes sense for a
> right-handed soldier, who must draw his sword
> across the body with the left hand. the kara, as
> well as preventing wrong actions with our dominant
> hand, serves a martial purpose as an arm guard of
> the sensitive exposed veins in the hand.
>
> BUT
>
> if someone is left hand dominant, would it not
> make sense to put everything on the other side? i
> know in old times (and even today in india), they
> forced left handed people to become right handed.
> my grandfather had this happen in america, and my
> small niece had it happen in india. but the truth
> is, some people are left hand dominant. shouldn't
> they draw their sword with the left hand (meaning
> gatra would go opposite way across the body?)
>
> i haven't seen in any rehetnama (except maybe
> taksalee?) that the gatra must go over one
> particular shoulder.
>
> just something going through my head! any
> thoughts? i'm not advocating changing tradition,
> just curious whether it's true maryada or if it is
> just tradition that assumes everyone is right hand
> dominant.

I dont see whats wrong with wearing Sri Sahib on the right side if one is right handed. It wouldnt be practical to have Sri Sahib on the left side if one is left handed then one is just wearing the Sri Sahib as a ritual. Nor do I see any difference if Karha is on left side or right side. It should be on the hand that is most dominant but either way I dont see any harm in putting it on the left hand if one is left handed.

I agree that Sri Sahib should be cleaned to protect it from rust but I dont see why it is wrong to have a blackened sarab loh karha. I have seen a Bhagat with a darkened Sarab Loh Karha.

all this information is actually really great for people that never stopped to question the specifics, like me.

but i do have one question..
the singhs can wear long comfy kechere, but the singhnia are restricted to the small and
shorts-type kechere that ride up at the slightest movement.. which defeat the purpose of the
way a kechera is supposed to stay "fitted"..
let alone how annoying it is to have to pull it down..
i've tried to ask around for longer kechere for bibia, but everywhere i'm told that such
kechere can only be sewn for singhs, not singhnia..
why so? shouldn't singhnia also follow the same rehat where the kechera is long?
i'm sure the answer to that is yes, obviously.. but where can we can long kechere made for bibia?
maybe 1kaur bhainji can help me out on this one?

Quote
sukhdeep
I dont see whats wrong with wearing Sri Sahib on the right side if one is right handed. It wouldnt be practical to have Sri Sahib on the left side if one is left handed then one is just wearing the Sri Sahib as a ritual. Nor do I see any difference if Karha is on left side or right side. It should be on the hand that is most dominant but either way I dont see any harm in putting it on the left hand if one is left handed.

sorry to be confusing. i meant for right handed people, siri sahib is on the left, because we reach across our body to draw a sword (this is practical from a martial arts standpoint). so for left handed people, can they have it on the right, so they can also draw it across the body as this is easier and faster?

i don't think singhnia are restricted in their kachhera... kakkars are kakkars. i don't think there's anything special about singhnias' kachhera...

if you can't find them in your size, have them made custom in india.

1kaur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I dont see whats wrong with wearing Sri Sahib on
> the right side if one is right handed. It wouldnt
> be practical to have Sri Sahib on the left side if
> one is left handed then one is just wearing the
> Sri Sahib as a ritual. Nor do I see any difference
> if Karha is on left side or right side. It should
> be on the hand that is most dominant but either
> way I dont see any harm in putting it on the left
> hand if one is left handed.
>
>
>
> sorry to be confusing. i meant for right
> handed people, siri sahib is on the left, because
> we reach across our body to draw a sword (this is
> practical from a martial arts standpoint). so
> for left handed people, can they have it on the
> right, so they can also draw it across the body as
> this is easier and faster?

Oops I made a mistake I meant to say I dont see whats wrong with wearing Sri Sahib on
> the right side if one is left handed.