Question about rehitnamas

Waheguru


I was trying to learn more about the different rehitnamas today, and on a different forum I came across the following:



1. Sakhi Rahit ki (by Nand Lal)
[published in Rahitname by Piara Singh Padam, 7th print 2000, page 63]

Istri de jame da visah nahi karna, antaih da laha istri ko nahi devna
The female gender is not to be trusted, the ultimate secret is not to be revealed to female gender.


2. Rahitnama Chaupa Singh,
[18th century, taken from Rahitname by Piara Singh Padam page 106]

Darbar sikhan de lagge vich maaee da jama, pothi Granth Sahib na parhe, sune sahi
In a congregation of Sikhs, females, should not read the scripture Granth Sahib, she may listen alright.
Gur ki sikhni maili hoike na parsad pakai na khawai
Guru's female sikh, if mensurating should neither cook food nor serve food.
(ibid, page 107)


3. Rahitnama Daya Singh
[Rahitname by Piara Singh Padam, page 75-76]

Ab Bihangam ke lakhan.......Istri ke hath ka unn jal na chhake
Now the signs of a celebate Sikh . . . should not eat if served by a female.



Perhaps some more knowledgable Gursikhs could provide some answers regarding these rehitnamas, which clearly seem very contrary to Gurmat.
I realise that the legitimacy of alot of the rehitnamas that have been recorded from various authors are questionable because of infiltration from outside sources. So for curiosity's sake I was wondering about the history of all the different rehitnamas, and what has caused them to become changed over time (one should not assume I have much knowledge of Sikh history, all I know are a few sakhis!)

Bhenji the problem is many people try to misinterpret these rehatnamey to undermine the code of conduct. Its easy to misinterpret a pangti if we dont take into consideration the historical context of the rehatnama. For example, there is a rehatnama that says dont read farsi and or Arabic. How could it be possible that GUru Sahib would give us such an orders; Guru Sahib himself was fluent in these languages. Instead what Guru Sahib was saying is do not follow the ways of the Mughals. Many people would often adopt the ways of the Mughal, they would start to adopt their dress, language , and customs like Halal. Here is an example from Asa Di var

ਨੀਲ ਵਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਹਿਰਿ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥
Nīl vasṯar pahir hovėh parvāṇ.
Wearing blue robes, they seek the approval of the Muslim rulers.

ਮਲੇਛ ਧਾਨੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ॥॥
Malecẖẖ ḏẖān le pūjėh purāṇ.
Accepting bread from the Muslim rulers, they still worship the Puraanas.

ਅਭਾਖਿਆ ਕਾ ਕੁਠਾ ਬਕਰਾ ਖਾਣਾ ॥
Abẖākẖi▫ā kā kuṯẖā bakrā kẖāṇā.
They eat the meat of the goats, killed after the Muslim prayers are read over them,


Unfortunately many Sikhs like the Brahmins started adopting these methods too. On a side not Neel Bastar is not referring to Navy BLue BaNa of the Khalsa; instead it is referring to light sky blue. Muslims in the old days would wear light blue clothes when going to the Mosque.

In regards to women again we must take into consideration the historical context.Again why would Guru Sahib say not to be around women. There were enough women whom were sevadars in Guru Jis langar, fauj, etc.

Many of the Mughal governors would try to sway the Singhs with prostitutes . These prostitutes would offer the Singhs bread, wine, etc. They would try to seduce captured and wandering Singhs for the sake of information and conversion. The rehatnama of BHai Nand Lal that you mentioned

Istri de jame da visah nahi karna, antaih da laha istri ko nahi devna


Is saying that you should not trust the wine cup ( jame) of a women. Do not give the strategic battle to such people.


THe other quote you mentioned by Bhai Daya Singh Ji further justifies this


Ab Bihangam ke lakhan.......Istri ke hath ka unn jal na chhake


For a Gursikh a Bihangam ( celibate) means someone who only has relations with their spouse and looks at others as their mother, sister, or daughter. Again Guru Ji is saying be a celibate ( be loyal to your spouse) do not be seduced by the poisonous water and food of the prostitutes.

In the Harim ( mansion of prostitutes) the women would try to seduce captured SInghs with wine, meat, sex, etc. Guru Sahib says such cups are poison , and taking pleasures in the house of prostitutes is like sleeping with snakes

ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਨੂੰ ਹਾਲ ਮੁਰੀਦਾਂ ਦਾ ਕਹਿਣਾ ॥ਤੁਧੁ ਬਿਨੁ ਰੋਗੁ ਰਜਾਈਆਂ ਦਾ ਓਢਣ ਨਾਗ ਨਿਵਾਸਾਂ ਦੇ ਰਹਿਣਾ c
ਸੂਲ ਸੁਰਾਹੀ ਖੰਜਰੁ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਬਿੰਗ ਕਸਾਈਆਂ ਦਾ ਸਹਿਣਾ॥
ਯਾਰੜੇ ਦਾ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਸੱਥਰੁ ਚੰਗਾ ਭੱਠ ਖੇੜਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਰਹਿਣਾ ॥੧॥੧॥

Thank you for clearing that up jee. I've read on other places on the internet that some of these rehitnamas have been altered - I don't know what to make of that claim?

Just to clear things up Im not an educated Sikh. Im still new to learning about Sikh. My understanding of the above rehatnameys is just my understanding of the rehatnamey. I would suggest you study for yourself as well. When I first started learning the different rehatnamey I was completely put off. The first rehatnama I read was Bhai Daya Singh Ji which seems extremely confusing and misleading right at the beginning. This intro to Bhai Daya Singh Jis rehatnam is probably the most confusing rehatnama out of all ancient rehatnamey, and for some odd reason this is the first rehatnama I came across,lol.

It takes time when studying rehat, and we must be patient in finding the answers. The search ( KHOJ) is extremely important actually its part of our rehat to study rehat.

[www.sikhitothemax.com]

THere is much History and a great understanding of the Khalsa Spirit in the ancient rehatnamey one would be foolish to not study these rehatnamey in the original Gurmukhi. If you have a hard time understanding certain words thenrefer to MahanKosh, Punjabi dictionaries etc or consult another Gursikh for further assistance

I guess I was looking for a simple and fast answer, and you're right that its important that we patiently pursue these studies for ourselves.
I will definitely do that.

A primary question about Rehatname is that who was authorized to write and what details? Did Guru Sahib advise some Singhs for that? Or Did some respected Singhs, of their own, feeling the necessity of written literature, have written these codes of conduct? Did Guru Sahib dictate some codes to Sangat and those authors put those in black and white ? Or these minute details were the reflections of the thinking of some Gursikhs after Guru Sahib? If somebody, who is studying Rehatname, can please, inform about that.

My submission is that, as it is happening in modern times, is it not possible that different authors (of Rehatname) were trying to interpret Gumat and Gurmat Rehat, as per their capability, wisdom, context and language. If it is so, we need not put forward the hypothesis of infilteration in Rehatnames. Can not different authors differ in their perceptions?

There are still some issues in Panth, on which many of us differ with. Is it not possible, among the authors of Rehatname?

While all of us agree on Basic Rehat; yet further we go in minute details, more we differ with each other?

MB Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A primary question about Rehatname is that who was
> authorized to write and what details? Did Guru
> Sahib advise some Singhs for that? Or Did some
> respected Singhs, of their own, feeling the
> necessity of written literature, have written
> these codes of conduct? Did Guru Sahib dictate
> some codes to Sangat and those authors put those
> in black and white ? Or these minute details were
> the reflections of the thinking of some Gursikhs
> after Guru Sahib? If somebody, who is studying
> Rehatname, can please, inform about that.
>
> My submission is that, as it is happening in
> modern times, is it not possible that different
> authors (of Rehatname) were trying to interpret
> Gumat and Gurmat Rehat, as per their capability,
> wisdom, context and language. If it is so, we need
> not put forward the hypothesis of infilteration in
> Rehatnames. Can not different authors differ in
> their perceptions?
>
> There are still some issues in Panth, on which
> many of us differ with. Is it not possible, among
> the authors of Rehatname?
>
> While all of us agree on Basic Rehat; yet further
> we go in minute details, more we differ with each
> other?


I have only done a brief analysis of the old rehatnamey, and my understanding is that the authors Bhai Daya Singh Ji ( first Panj Pyaarey), BHai Nand Lal ( scholar of Sikhi and Gurmukh Sevak who had close contact with GUru Sahib), and Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji ( caretaker of Guru Sahib) were all present and eye witnesses when Guru Sahib gave code of conduct ( rehat) to the Khalsa on Visakhi day. I believe this is true because the language of these rehatnamey is very similar.

Bhai Desa Singh Ji was the nephew or son of Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji and he had darshan of GUru Sahib in a dream. The rehatnama of Bhai Desa Singh Ji also has similar language to the others. Same with Bhai Sahib Singh Ji and Bhai Prahlad Singh Ji. Bhai Prhalad Singh Ji was in the company of GUru Sahib in Hazoor Sahib when Guru Sahib gave Gurdgaddi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib JI.

Either way Khalsa are warriors. Every warrior clan has a code of conduct. The Samurai had the Bushido. The Knights had the chivalry , and the beloved Khalsa has the rehat marayada passed down directly from GUru Sahib. Once we start questioning this way of life we be become weak and lose everything., because Rehat is most dear to GUru Sahib.

Thanks a lot, Veer Ji for compact information. The idea of all Rehat given on Vaisakhi Day of 1699, seems not necessary. A lot would have been observed and experienced by these Gursikhs, through their contact with Guru Sahib.

Veer Ji if the traditions were not scribed then how would they be preserved? The Jews, Christians, and Muslims preserved their traditions through word of mouth and that why they have no distict rehat- appearance they all follow their own laws

Do you have any idea of the purpose of this rehitnama:

Darbar sikhan de lagge vich maaee da jama, pothi Granth Sahib na parhe, sune sahi
In a congregation of Sikhs, females, should not read the scripture Granth Sahib, she may listen alright.


Reading such rehitnamas, it seems like rehitnamas were directed at Singhs only. This is something that bothers me greatly. Why would this be?

Quote

I have only done a brief analysis of the old rehatnamey, and my understanding is that the authors Bhai Daya Singh Ji ( first Panj Pyaarey), BHai Nand Lal ( scholar of Sikhi and Gurmukh Sevak who had close contact with GUru Sahib), and Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji ( caretaker of Guru Sahib) were all present and eye witnesses when Guru Sahib gave code of conduct ( rehat) to the Khalsa on Visakhi day. I believe this is true because the language of these rehatnamey is very similar.

Bhai Desa Singh Ji was the nephew or son of Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji and he had darshan of GUru Sahib in a dream. The rehatnama of Bhai Desa Singh Ji also has similar language to the others. Same with Bhai Sahib Singh Ji and Bhai Prahlad Singh Ji. Bhai Prhalad Singh Ji was in the company of GUru Sahib in Hazoor Sahib when Guru Sahib gave Gurdgaddi to Sri Guru Granth Sahib JI.

bhai daya singh rehetnama was not written in bhai daya singh's (panj pyara) lifetime. it's likely someone used his name to make it look authentic. it contains a lot of baman elements, like the story of devi/devtas presence at first amrit sanchar.

bhai chaupa singh rehetnama is the same, written after his lifetime, possibly written by two separate authors, definitely corrupted.

bhai desa singh rehetnama was surely corrupted, it speaks of taking alcohol and opium during battle, as well as other clear violations of gurmat.

not sure about the others, but i believe they were all written in the 1800s, long after guru sahib's time.

much research has been done on this.

the only rehetnamay that have the stamp of guru sahib are of bhai nand lal ji, and only the prose (which are written in persian, i believe), which are conversations with guru sahib himself. the one mentioned by bhenji is definitely not his writing, as it's written in much more crude language, not in the beautiful poetry of guru sahib's scholar.

Quote

Do you have any idea of the purpose of this rehitnama:
Darbar sikhan de lagge vich maaee da jama, pothi Granth Sahib na parhe, sune sahi
In a congregation of Sikhs, females, should not read the scripture Granth Sahib, she may listen alright.
Reading such rehitnamas, it seems like rehitnamas were directed at Singhs only. This is something that bothers me greatly. Why would this be?

Today too there are some Brahmin-influence Sikhs who believe that Bibiyaan should not be allowed to do Kirtan or Paath in Sangat. The above statement from the Hukamnama is not Gurmat. It could have been written by a Brahmin-influenced Sikh or outright doctored by Brahmins. Place no faith in it. It is a historical fact that Jathedar Jassa Singh Ahluwalia's mother used to do Kirtan at all Khalsa gatherings of that time and this is from mid 1700s. How can above stated fake statement of a Rehitnama be true. Be not decieved; have faith.

In 1980s, Soora Parivaar (an affiliation of AKJ) published a detailed analysis of Rehitnamas and how some Brahmin-minded people have doctored some Rehitnamas. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee too has written that Rehitnamas that are according to Gurbani should be accepted fully. This implies that there are some statements in Rehitnamas that are not in according to Gurmat. I read a Rehitnama that says that a Sikh should get up early morning and bow before Sooraj Devta. How can such a statement be true. Rehitnamas that are not against Gurmat / Gurbani should alone be accepted.

SK jeeo, don't be disheartened. Our Guru, Our Pita jee, Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee gazes at male and female Khalsa with the same eye. He sees no difference and this is why he blessed all Khalsa (male or female) with the same Rehit e.g. same Kakaars, same Nitnem etc. May Guru Sahib bless us with Bibek Budh.

Kulbir Singh

Thank you jee

1kaur Wrote:

>
>
> bhai daya singh rehetnama was not written in bhai
> daya singh's (panj pyara) lifetime. it's likely
> someone used his name to make it look authentic.
> it contains a lot of baman elements, like the
> story of devi/devtas presence at first amrit
> sanchar.
>
> bhai chaupa singh rehetnama is the same, written
> after his lifetime, possibly written by two
> separate authors, definitely corrupted.
>
> bhai desa singh rehetnama was surely corrupted, it
> speaks of taking alcohol and opium during battle,
> as well as other clear violations of gurmat.
>
> not sure about the others, but i believe they were
> all written in the 1800s, long after guru sahib's
> time.
>
> much research has been done on this.
>
> the only rehetnamay that have the stamp of guru
> sahib are of bhai nand lal ji, and only the prose
> (which are written in persian, i believe), which
> are conversations with guru sahib himself. the
> one mentioned by bhenji is definitely not his
> writing, as it's written in much more crude
> language, not in the beautiful poetry of guru
> sahib's scholar.

In the old days, the Singhs had no doubts about Sri Dasam Granth. They were fluent with the literature and symbolism in the Sri Dasam Granth. Thus , they were familiar with the stories of different devtas of ancient times. They would associate the character Hanuman with strength and chastity and so forth, etc. Thus Guru Sahib poetically mentions these names in the rehatnama.

Bhai Daya Singh Ji is the same Bhai Daya Singh Ji who was the first one to take Vasakhi at Amrit I am 101% sure of this fact. Anybody who reads this rehatnamey in Gurmukhi will no for sure this is a great blessing from Guru Sahib. Bhenji you are basing your understanding on the ancient rehatnamey based on a book written by some guy ( MCleod) who was a CHirstian Missionary and was determined to weaken the Sikh faith and psyche of the Khalsa. Just to let you know Kala Afghana is the Mcleod of today. I already responded to your skeptical views on BHai Daya Singh Ji and you did not respond back.
[gurmatbibek.com]

Again one cannot understand Bhai Sahibs rehatnama or other rehatnamey through the scope of a Christian Missionary and their translations.

In regards to Bhai Desa Singh JI.

I have not come across any rehat that speaks of taking alcohol and opium during battle.

Bhai Desa Singh Ji was a great Gurmukh who was from the bloodline of Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji. He received Darshan of Guru Sahib,and Guru Sahib told him the banis in order of Sri Dasam Granth.

In regards to Bhai Nand Lal Ji you stated

"he
> one mentioned by bhenji is definitely not his
> writing, as it's written in much more crude
> language, not in the beautiful poetry of guru
> sahib's scholar"

what do you mean by crude language?


Rehatnamey are extremely important they are the code of conduct of the Khalsa. It is through them that we conduct ourselves and govern the panth. Without the rehatnamey how would one know about Panj Kakkars, , Nitnem, vegetarian diet, etc. A Gursikhs should govern their whole lives based on the code of conduct. A Gurmukh will always base their conduct on the Khalsa Maryada. What time they eat, what they eat, when they sleep, how long they sleep, who they sleep with will be based on the code of Conduct.

All rehatnamey were written during Sri Dasmesh Pita Jis time. The only acception is Bhai Desa Singh Ji and and Param/Prem Sumarg. Bhai Desa Singh Ji wrote the rehatnama later after getting partak Darshan of Guru Sahib.

Param/Prem sumarag was written by no other then Bhai Sahib BHai Randhir SIngh Ji along with four other Singhs. This was created during the SIngh Sabha Movement in attempt to reestablish Tat Gurmat principles. All actions were decided by a council of 5, and anybody who wanted to do seva in this counsel had to follow the rehat contained in this Rehatnama. If you look at this rehatnama you will know that the rehatnamey are almost identical with the ancient rehatnamey.

Quote
Param/Prem sumarag was written by no other then Bhai Sahib BHai Randhir SIngh Ji along with four other Singhs.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

Bhai Sukhdeep Singh Daas tried to collect almost all writings of Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee Narangwal but never even heard of this that Bhai Sahib ji wrote/edit any Prem Sumarg granth. Could you please elaborate more???

With Regards,
Daas

Bhai Sahib sorry for the poor choice of words. What I meant to say is Panj Pyaarey conducted this granth and Bhai Randhir Singh Ji took part in the Seva.

Who else was a better scholar on Gurmat Traditions then Bhai Sahib. BHai Sahib knew many of the puratan rehatnamey because he followed them in his daily practice.

the following is my understanding from research. if any is wrong (or wrong translations), please correct me.


sukheep veejee, can you elaborate in which rehetnamay mention all panj kakkars (as we know them) and advocate a vegetarian diet?
most that i have read regarding meat speak of "turk ka maas" or specifically mention jhatka of goats being acceptable. some speak of not eating beef (insinuating that other meat is acceptable- clearly a brahmin influence).

the compilation of rehetnamay by McLeod is simply a collection of research and translations done by past sikh scholars. you can verify this by the references at the end of each chapter. it's not his original work.

btw, i didn't say sakhi rehet ki was written in crude language. i said it was written in "more crude" language than bhai nand lal's famous and beautiful persian verse. it's written in a mixture of kharboli, and simple punjabi, which would be highly irregular for a poet of bhai nand lal's standing. also, how can guru sahib approve a rehetnama that describes how to properly worship ancestors (shradh)? most of it is sikhi, some of it is not, but being in line with sikhi doesn't make it bhai nand lal ji's work.

pauree 31 of bhai desa singh rehetnama specifies taking alcohol and opium as acceptable. pauree 32 says jhatka of goat is acceptable. in pauree 44 he says not to take alcohol, but in pauree 45 he says it's ok to take alcohol before battle. how can this be? this rehetnama says low caste are not allowed in the langar kitchen, however hindu brahmins are. shudras and servants are fed after langar is served (but are allowed to sit on a bed. how kind!).

ignoring the fact that bhai daya singh rehetnama begins with description of how every gift to the khalsa was given by a different devi/devta, rather than by guru sahib... how about pauree 17 which specifically says to wear green clothes, but does not mention blue as an approved color (though later he says an akali should only wear blue)? cutting the kes is punishable by death, while other bujjar kurhets only require a fine of 25 rupees? we should read gurbani, but not learn persian- it says anyone who reads persian is not a sikh. so how can we understand guru gobind singh sahib ji's bani?

there is clear corruption and questionable authenticity of all of the historic rehetnamay except for rehetnama and tanakhanama by bhai nand lal ji. this is why ONLY bhai nand lal ji's poetry/rehetnamay are allowed to be recited/sung in sangat.

Waheguru ji Ka khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh,

Quote
What I meant to say is Panj Pyaarey conducted this granth and Bhai Randhir Singh Ji took part in the Seva.

Interesting! Could you please further the details that when, where and what part of the granth was written by him???

Thanks,

With Regards,
Daas

When opium ( pheem) first came to India is questionable. Some say it was brought to India from the Dutch in the 1700s others says it has been around well before the Europeans. Because I have not seen the word pheem ( opium) in the Rehatnameys scribef at AnandPur I am of the opinion that it came shortly after 1699 by the Dutch. Perhaps thats why we see opium only mentioned in Bhai Desa Singh Jis rehatnama which came after the more older rehatnamey.

The Dutch first sent shipments of opium to China, and eventually this would finds its way to India. The Chinese like the Indians used this powerful drug in small doses for medical reasons. It was not untill the British attempted to overthrow China that this medicinal drug in Asia became a narcotic for pleasure based reasons. The British needed to send large shipments of this drug to China to drug the country . Their logic was if there is large amounts of opium in China then people would find a use for it other then its medical use. The problem was how on earth were they going to transport this drug in such a large load in an effective manner. The British never wanted to invade Punjab because they knew the Singhs were fearless warriors because of their rehat (Code of Conduct bestowed by Nasro Mansoor Sri Guru Gobind SIngh JI!) so they had no intentions to invade Punjab. But the British needed fertile land to grow large amounts of opium. What better place then the fertile land of Punjab? This is what happened Opium was grown in large amounts and many Sikhs started taking this drug for pleasure based reasons. Even todays many " NIhangs" have become Bhangees ( Druggies) because of this drug. The addiction of this drug became the downfall of the Sikhs, because once we transgress from rehat we lose all power. Guru Sahib predicted all these things and warned us of the abuse of this deadly drug.


Throughout history there has been no Army as sophsiticated and powerful as the Khalsa Fauj. Because of their obedience to the Khalsa Rehat Maryada, Guru Sahib bestowed them with all his powers and showed them how to rule and attain victory. The Khalsa Fauj was extremely organized. They had many units that were responsible for certain functions of the Fauj. For example, a group would monitor the Falcons in the Sky. Falcons were sent in the sky to serve as Radars to detect the enemy and then send signals to the Singhs who were monitoring their movements. There was another squad that was responsible for Guru Sahibs langar, Singhs like Shaheed BHai Taru Singh would often serve in this squad. There were the front line warriors who would go into battle, and then close by there was the medical team whom would give meditation and take care of the wounds of the injured soldiers. When Soldiers were wounded small amounts of opium was applied to numb the wounds so there was less pain. This was not used on every soldier since many of the warriors were Naam Abhyiaasi Gurmukhs they did not feel the pain of deep wounds, but others mainly non Sikhs were in pain and they needed small doses of opium. Thats why the rehatnama of Bhai Desa SIngh Ji says one can use opium in small amounts.

There is much controversy over the issue of Jhatka. My understanding is there were some people of different backgrounds who fought along with the Khalsa Fauj whom this rehat was directed too. The Rajputs fought with the Khalsa Fauj and they had a tradition of Jhatka since they were hunters; hunting was a privilege for Kings at that time. The Mughals banned this practice for the Rajputs and did not allow them to hunt or ride horses, since they believed hunting was a noble privilege for the Muslims only . The Mughals mistreated the Rajputs and for this reason they joined Guru Sahibs army. In a letter which I cant find GUru Sahib told Aurangzeb that his army will ride horses, and perform Jhatka. My understanding of this is Guru Sahib is saying we do not abide by your orders. GUru Sahib was a democratic leader even if he did not agree with certain practices he still allowed people to perform their rituals and customs. But this Jhatka meat was never allowed in the Guru Ka Langar. Thats why in Bhai Desa Singh Jis rehatnama there is mention that Jhatka cannot be put in GUru Ka Langar. This is proof that Jhatka is a pracitce of the Rajputs. Think about what did GUru Ka Langar mean in the past during times of War. It didnt mean a building where GUru Sahibs langar was served as we commonly view it. It was langar made , and served by REhatvan Singhs which was usually out in the middle of the jungle. To avoid offending some Hindus and some Muslims Guru Sahib forbid jhatka on the cow or the pig, because Muslims were annoyed by the pig and considered it as filthy and Hindus considered the cow as sacred.

Many Shiites also joined the Khalsa Fauj, because Aurangzeb was a tyrannical Sunni who tried to destroy the Shiite community and their practices. The Shiites would moderately drink wine on their special days of celebration. Thats why it sounds confusing in the rehatnama in which wine is permitted but then forbidden. It was permitted for the Shiites but forbidden for the Gursikhs.

In regards to Panj Kakkar Bhai Chaupa Singh Ji mentions the five kakkars, and BHai Daya Singh Ji mentions vegetarian diet.

In regards to BHai Nand Lal Jis writing - I think it would be unfair to suggest Persian is a more beautiful or sophisticated language then Punjabi. All languages come from God and who is to say which one is greater? By suggesting one style of language is superior we are acting like Bahamans who are known for this mentality. By the way if you read Bhai Nand Lal Jis works you will notice that BHai Sahib did use simple Punjabi. Read Joti Bigas , Ganj Nama , and Joti Bigas and see for yourself that these works contain such simple Punajbi, so simple that even someone like me can understand.
[www.vidhia.com]

In regards to not learning Persian or Arabic- Once again Guru Sahib spoke these languages the great Shaheed Bhai Deep Singh Ji was fluent in these language ; Baba Ji wrote Sri Guru GRanth Sahib Ji in Arabic which I think may still exist in Iraq. We need to look further into this rehatnama. GUru Sahib is saying do not trust those whombetray their faith ,and start adopting the language/ customs of the Mughals. Even in Asa Di Var; Guru Sahib mentions how this practice was prevalent amongst the "warrior" Kshatriys.

ਨੀਲ ਵਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਹਿਰਿ ਹੋਵਹਿ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥

Wearing blue robes, they seek the approval of the Muslim rulers.

ਮਲੇਛ ਧਾਨੁ ਲੇ ਪੂਜਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣੁ ॥

Accepting bread from the Muslim rulers, they still worship the Puraanas.

ਅਭਾਖਿਆ ਕਾ ਕੁਠਾ ਬਕਰਾ ਖਾਣਾ ॥

They eat the meat of the goats, killed after the Muslim prayers are read over them,

ਚਉਕੇ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

but they do not allow anyone else to enter their kitchen areas.

The speaking of Persian is directed to those who betray the Sikh Dharam and start to recite the Quraran in Persian while performing Halal. Such people who practice other customs are no longer Sikhs.


I already mentioned about the devtas and the colors of Bana contained in Bhai Daya SIngh JI rehatnama. The rehatnama about colors of BaNa states the following:

੧ ਸੁਰਮਈ ੨ ਸਵਯੇ ੩. ਪੀਤ ੪ ਹਰਤ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਧਾਰੇ ।ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਕਸੁੰਭੇ ਕੋ ਨ ਪਹਿਰਹਿ

In the above s ਸੁਰਮਈ does not mean gray as mentioned in the book you read. Suremaee mean navy ( dark/midnight) blue, and hart ਹਰਤ does not mean Green it means fresh( clean). In Gurbani the word ਹਰ is often referred to as fresh. For example in Rehras we say

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾਂ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਥੀਵੈ ਹਰਿਆ ॥੧॥॥
Nānak nām milai ṯāʼn jīvāʼn ṯan man thīvai hari▫ā. ||1||
O Nanak, if I am blessed with the Naam, I live, and my body and mind blossom forth. ||1||

How odd would it be to to give the word ਹਰਿਆ the meaning of Green in this pangti?

About the Tankhiya of cutting Kesh. Again take into consideration the historical perspective. The only Sikhs who cut their Kesh in those days were the ones who betrayed their faith an went to the other side. Their use to be a price on a SInghs head for this reason some cowards would cut their Kesh to avoid being killed. Others would cut their kesh and joing the Mughals. Guru Sahib says recognize those betrayers as enemies of the faith and dont trust them. They are complete tankhiya.


I dont like to go around and around in circles consider this to be my last response to you on this thread. As a brother, I would just like to give you a warning and a heads up. How is one to get all the blessings of GUru Sahib if we deny Guru Sahibs Code of Conduct. I agree rehat is hard to keep I myself struggle with rehat but one will not go far in causing doubts about these God given commandments.

GUru Sahib says the following-

ਜਬ ਲਗ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਰਹੇ ਨਿਆਰਾ, ਤਬ ਲਗ ਤੇਜ ਦੀਓ ਮੈ ਸਾਰਾ ॥ BHai Prahalad SIngh Ji
As long as Khalsa preserves its uniqueness and follows the path of true Guru I will bless them with all of my powers."

ਰਹਿਤ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਮੁਝ ਕਉ ਸਿਖ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਨਾਹਿ ।- BHai Desa Singh Ji

I love the Sikh who follow the code of Conduct more then the Sikh who just calls himself a Sikh.


ਹਮਾਰੇ ਕੋ ਭੇਖ ਬਰਣ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਨਹੀ, ਰਹਨੀ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਹੈ- Bhai Daya Singh Ji

I dont love the caste or outer disguise of a Sikh I love the Sikh who keeps rehat.

If you are denying the rehat of BHai Desa SIngh Ji, Bhai Nand Lal Singh Ji, BHai Daya Singh, BHai Chaupa Singh Ji then whose rehat do you believe in? What rehat are you referring to when Guru Sahib says keep rehat. Are you talking about the rehat that you make up and and like? When Panj Pyaarey give us the rehat to follow they do not go over every single rehat .In the short time they have they give us the most important ones to keep the rest is for us to study and learn GUru Sahibs commands. If we dont not believe in rehat then we are Bheyee Sikhs ( Sikhs in Disguise) who look like Sikhs but do not live like Sikhs.

JASJIT SINGH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Waheguru ji Ka khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh,
>
>
>
>
>
> Interesting! Could you please further the details
> that when, where and what part of the granth was
> written by him???
>
> Thanks,
>
> With Regards,
> Daas


My understanding is this Gurmat Manifesto was written during the Singh Sabha Movement in Lahore (?) but was later banned along with other Singh Sabha books by the British Government. The 5 staunch Gurmat authors of this Granth were kept gupt for obvious reasons.

Bhai Sahib Im not a Scholar. You have probably read all of the books of Bhai Sahib therefore you will have a better understanding of which specific rehatnamey Bhai Sahib mentioned. But at the end of the day we should not see these works as the works of Bhai Sahib instead we should see them as the works of five Gurmukh Singhs who were well versed in Tat Gurmat traditions. For this reason there is much to learn from these rehats and we should accept them as approved by Guru Sahib. This is perhaps one of the strictest rehatnamey that is full of love. Either way according to our ability we should all try to adopt some level of strictness .

Veer Sukhdeep Singh Ji, seems to have Masters in Rehatnamme. . We need to study more to have first hand knowledge. If we preceive the Rehatnamme, as being particularly written for Khlasa Fauj, we are able to clarify some doubts.

Thank you Veer Ji, for giving us a new view.

Bhai Sukhdeep Singh Jio,

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

It seems like someone misinformed you on this Prem Sumarg thing. Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee of Narangwal did not write anything under the name of ‘Prem Sumarg’. However, Bhai Randhir Singh research scholar of Shiromani Gurudwara Parbandhic Committee (SGPC) did write in Prem Sumarg.

As far as the authenticity of Rehatnamas none of the Rehatnamas is written by Guru Gobind Singh Jee. If these were written by Guru Sahib then they should all be in Dasam Granth. Secondly, most scholars also agrees that these Rehatnamay were also not written by Hazoori (contemporary) Singhs of Dasam Patshah like Piyaray Bhai Dya Singh jee, Bhai Nand Lal Singh Jee etc.

Following is the quote from the ‘Prem Sumarg’ where Bhai Randhir Singh (research scholar) also mentioned the same thing:

“ਏਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਭਾ: ਦਇਆ ਸਿੰਘ, ਭਾਈ ਨੰਦ ਲਾਲ, ਭਾਈ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਤੇ ਭਾ: ਦੇਸਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਆਦਿ ਹਜ਼ੂਰੀ ਸਿੰਘਾਂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਪੁਰ ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮੇ ਲਿਖੇ ਛਪੇ ਲਭਦੇ ਹਨ। ਪਰ ਇਹ ਚਾਰੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਮਨਾਮ ਵਿਦਵਾਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਰਚੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ। ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਹਕੀਕਤ, ਅੰਦਰਲੀਆਂ ਗਵਾਹੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਖੁਲ੍ਹ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ”।

Translation:
“So, there are numerous Rehatnamay available in writing and in printing on the names of Hazoori Singhs Bhai Dya Singh, Bhai Nand Lal, Bhai Prahlad Singh and Bhai Desa Singh etc. However, these are written by four unnamed scholars. Their truth is exposed from internal evidences”

In light of above information I suggest we should refrain from arguing based on each and every bit of Rehatnamas because most Gursikhs, scholars of past and present agrees that these Rehatnanamy which also contained anti-Gurmat stuff needed to be researched extensively.

ਹਾਂ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਦੀ ਕਸਵੱਟੀ ਤੇ ਖਰੇ ਉਤਰਦੇ ਹਨ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਜੀਵਨ ਸ਼ੈਲੀ ਦਾ ਅੰਗ ਜ਼ਰੂਰ ਬਣਾ ਲੈਣਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ।

With Regards,
Daas

Veer Ji lol Im no Master in Rehatnamey I just great joy in reading the rehatnamey in Professor Pyaara Singhs book titled REhatnamey.

Jasjit SIngh Veer Ji I never claimed that false rehats could of come up under the names of Bhai Daya Singh JI,Bhai Nand Lal etc. False Gurbani also appeared under the name of Pehli Paatshah but the panth discared the false ones and accepted the true bani. Similarly we should not discard the true rehatnamey under Bhai Daya Singh Ji just because some others have fabricated rehatnameys under the name of Bhai Daya SIngh Ji.

Why would the rehatnamey be in the original dasam granth, and how do we know the British did not remove these rehatnamey? Many of the rehatnamey are in strict accordance to Gurbani its not so wise to openly claim none of them are from Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jis time. That is an extreme statement. Do you honestly believe the following rehatnama did not come from Sri Dasmesh Pita Ji

ਜਬ ਲਗ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਰਹੇ ਨਿਆਰਾ, ਤਬ ਲਗ ਤੇਜ ਦੀਓ ਮੈ ਸਾਰਾ ॥

or the following

ਹਮਾਰੇ ਕੋ ਭੇਖ ਬਰਣ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਨਹੀ, ਰਹਨੀ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਹੈ

The above are in strict accordance with Gurmat. There is no doubts they came from the time of GUru Sahib following these teachings will bring much blessings.I have no doubt the above and MANY more rehatnamey contained in Professor Pyaara Singhs book are from Guru Sahib.

Sarab Loh Bibek diet is mentioned by Bhai Daya SIngh Ji. Bhai Sahib mentions food prepared in Sarab Loh taste delicious. WHen some people would ask Bhai Randhir Singh Ji about Sarab Loh Bibek he would say almost the exact same thing- food prepared in Sarab Loh taste delicious like Amrit.

In regards to Prem Sumarag- The secret authors who wrote this were drenched in the divine colors of Naam, and were strict followers of Tat Gurmat. If Research Scholar Bhai Randhir Singh was at this vasta then I will accept it as his writing. One thing is for sure no one single individual wrote this Gurmat Manifesto.

sukhdeep singh veerjee, you're right, let's not argue. you have misread/misinterpreted some of my statements, but that's ok. let's leave it at that, we simply disagree.

our rehet is the sikh rehet maryada, as given by akal takht, with some slight alterations (keskee, vegetarianism, panj banee nitnem being the most obvious).

of the old rehetnamay, the one i find most convincing and in line with gurmat, is the 52 hukams of guru gobind singh sahib jee.

1) Dharam di Kirat karni - Earn by honest means.
2) Daswand dena - Give one tenth of your salary.
3) Gurbani kantth karni - Memorize Gurbani.
4) Amrit Vaelae utthna - Wake up Amrit Vela (before dawn).
5) Sikh sewak di sewa ruchi naal karni - Serve a Sikh Servant with devotion.
6) Gurbani dae arth Sikh vidhvana tuo parrhnae- Learn the meanings of Gurbani from Sikh Scholars.
7) Punj Kakaar di Rehat drirh kar rukhni - Follow the discipline of the 5 K's strictly.
8) Shabad da abhihas karna - Practice Shabad Gurbani in life.
9) Sat-Saroop Satgur da dhian dharna - Concentrate on the True Guru (God).
10) Guru Granth Sahib Ji noo Guru mananaa - Accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru.
11) Kaarjaan dae arambh vich ardaas karni - At the beginning of a task, perform ardaas
12) Jaman, maran, ja viah mokae Jup da paatth kar tihaaval (Karaah Parsaad) kar anand sahib dia punj paurian, ardaas, pratham punj pyaariaan atae hazoori granthi noo vartaa kae oprunth sangat noo vartaaouna - At birth, death, or marriage ceremonies, do Japji Sahib, make Karaah Parshaad, do five stanzas of anand sahib, do ardaas, and then distribute Karaah Parshaad to the Panj Pyare, the Granthi, and then to the sangat.
13) Jab tak Karaah Parshaad vartadaa rahae sadh sangat addol batthee rahae - Until Karaah Parshaad is completely distributed, the Sangat should remain sitting and unmoving.
14) Anand Viah bina grahist nahi karna - Do not start married life without Anand Karaj (Sikh ceremony of marriage).
15) Par-Istri, Ma-Bhain, Dhi-Bhain, kar jaanani. Par Istri da sang nahi karna - Recognize all other women other than your wife as mothers and sisters. Do not engage in marital behaviour with them.
16) Istri da mooh nahi fitkaarnaa - Do not silence your wife
17) Jagat-jootth tambaaku bikhiaa da tiaag karna - Abandon worldly falsehoods and tobacco-poison.
18) Rehatvaan atae naam jupan vaalae gursikhaa di sangat karni - Keep the company of Sikhs who follow the Rehat and meditate on the Name (of God).
19) Kum karan vich daridar nahi karna - Don't be lazy while doing work.
20) Gurbani di katha tae keertan roaz sunanaa atae karna - Listen and do kirtan and Gurbani discourses daily.
21) Kisae di ninda, chugali, atae eirkha nahi karni - Do not engage in slander, gossip or spite anyone
22) Dhan, jawaani, tae kul-jaat da abhiman nahi karnaa (Nanak daadak tahe duae goath. Saak guru sikhan sang hoath) -
Do not take pride in wealth, youth and caste. (Mother and Father's caste both castes. All Sikhs of the Guru are siblings)?
23) Mat uchi tae suchi rakhni - Keep the religious discipline high and pure.
24) Shubh karman tao kadae naa ttarnaa - Do not refrain from doing Righteous deeds.
25) Budh bal da daataa vaheguroo noo jaananaa - Recognize God as the giver of intellect and strength.
26) Sugandh (kasam sahu) dae kar itbaar janaaoun vaalae tae yakeen nahi karna - Do not believe a person who swears (one who tries/attempts to convince someone with a 'saun or saugandh').
27) Sutantar Vicharna. Raaj Kaaj dian kamaan tae doosrae mutaa dia purshaan noo huk nahi daenaa - Rule Independently. In the affaris of government, do not give people of other religions authority/power.
28) Raajniti parhni - Study politics.
29) Dushman naal saam, daam, bhaed, aadiak, upaa vartnae - With the enemy, practice/deploy the various techniques/tactics of diplomacy (saam, daam, dand, bhed).
30) Shaster vidyaa atae ghorhae di savaari da abhiaas karna - Practice the knowledge of weaponry and horse riding.
31) Doosrae mataa dae pustak, vidyaa parhni. Pur bhrosaa drirh Gurbani, Akal Purakh tae karnaa - Study the books and knowledge of other faiths. But keep trust in Gurbani and Akal Purukh.
32) Gurupdaesaa noo dhaaran karna - Follow the teachings of the Guru.
33) Raheraas da paath kar kharae ho kae ardaas karni - After Rehras Paatth, do Ardaas standing up.
34) Saun valae sohila atae 'paun guru pani pita...' salok parhna - Recite Sohila and 'paun guru pani pita...' stanza before going to sleep.
35) Dastaar bina nahi rehnaa - Wear a turban at all times.
36) Singha da adha naam nahi bulauna - Do not call a Singh by half of their name (nickname).
37) Sharaab nai saevani - Do not partake of alcoholic drinks.
38) Sir munae noo kanaiaa nahi daeni. Uos ghar daevni jithae Akal Purukh di sikhi ha, jo karzaai naa hovae, bhalae subhaa da hovae, bibaeki atae gyanvaan hovae - Do not given a daughter's hand to a clean shaven. Give her hand in a house where God's Sikhi exists, where the household is not in debt, is of a good nature, is disciplined and knowledgeable.
39) Subh kaaraj Gurbani anusaar karnae - Do all work in accordance with Gurbani.
40) Chugali kar kisae da kam nahi vigaarnaa - Do not ruin someone's work by gossip.
41) Kaurha bachan nahi kahinaa - Do not utter bitter statements.
42) Darshan yaatraa gurdwaaraa di hi karni - Make pilgrimages to Gurudwaras only.
43) Bachan karkae paalnaa - Fulfill all promises that are made
44) Pardaesi, lorvaan, dukhi, apung manukh di yataahshkat sewa karni -
Do as much sewa as you can for foreigners, the needy and the troubled.
45) Putari da dhan bikh jananaa - Recognize the property of a daughter as poison
46) Dikhaawae da Sikh nahi bananaa - Do not become an outward show-off Sikh.
47) Sikhi kesaa-suaasa sang nibhaaouni - Live and die a Keshadhaari Sikh
48) Chori, yaari, tthugi, dhokaa, dagaa bahi karnaa - Refrain from engaging in theft, adultery / promiscuity / permissiveness , fraud, deceit, embezzlement.
49) Sikh da itbaar karna - Believe a Sikh.
50) Jhutthi gavaahi nahi daeni - Do not give false testimony.
51) Dhroh nahi karnaa - Do not cheat.
52) Langar-Parshaad ik ras vartaaunaa - Distribute Langar and Karaah Parshaad with equality.

Bhein Ji, pl. inform about the source of these 52 hukams. Dhanwaad Ji.

The 52 Rehat Hukamnameh where issued by Dasmesh Pita Jee himself in 1708 at Nanded.
Baba Ram Singh Koer Jee the great grandson of Baba Buddha Jee wrote these injunctions at that moment in time.

they're compiled in a book, "Kalgidhar Ji De 52 Bachan" by Balwinder Singh. i believe the original is kept at hazoor sahib (or patna sahib, can't remember). it was originally issued to the sikhs of kabul.

Vaheguru jio!

52 Hukams are also displayed on a sign board in Gurdwara Ponta sahib.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

The list is very SACRED list. The copy of hand written original on internet if available, be linked, please.

1kaur ji,

even the authenticity of the 52 hukamnamey has been questioned by many scholars

also you mention the rehatnameys banning maas from turks - it is important to note that only turks were allowed to produce maas in mughal india, hindus were banned from doing so, so by saying to not eat maas from turks bans all maas at the time - we know for a fact that Guru Amardaas Ji was vegetarian and have no reason to doubt any of the other Gurus weren't

in the end i like what Bhai Pinderpal Singh Ji had to say about the authenticity of sources which is essentially that so many sources have been altered but we can't just throw them out in their entirety (sau sakhi is one) there is a lot of good information to be garnered from those sources for example Bhai Chaupa Singh's rehatnama says that a Sikh is not to go to sleep without resolving a dispute with another Sikh - can you imagine how much better our panth would be if we all implemented that type of resolve - instead we need to have the knowledge of swan who is able to find the good even in muddied water and we need to find the good in what may be altered

bhul chuk maaf karni

Tarun Singh