The Riddle of Flour that fell in Mud

A person was grinding flour using Chakki (manual grinding mill) and as is the habit of people who ground flour, this person was eating some half grounded grains or even the flour. When enough flour was grinded, it was put in a utensil and carried. The person carrying flour was walking on muddy ground. All of sudden the flour fell into muddy water. Since Aata (flour) is like a powder, it was hard to separate it from muddy water and this was the flour was lost.

This above is the literal meaning of the following verse of Bhagat Kabir jee:

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੀਚੜਿ ਆਟਾ ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਆਇਓ ਹਾਥ ॥
ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਚਾਬਿਆ ਸੋਈ ਨਿਬਹਿਆ ਸਾਥ ॥੨੧੫॥

Now, one thing is for sure that flour is not the message that Bhagat jee is conveying to us. So what is the spiritual lesson that Bhagat jee is teaching us in this Salok? We can only conjecture. This is what comes to mind:

The Chakki represents our life. So long as the Chakki is going on we can eat the flour but once the flour goes away from the Chakki and falls in the muddy water, nothing can be gained. In other words so long as our Swaas are going on, we can earn the Laaha of Naam. Once our Swaas (breathing) stops working, we can no longer get any Laaha of Naam.

If someone can shed more light on this Salok, it would be great. Let’s try to understand this Salok to the best of our capability.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

amazing thoughts here. the depth of gurbani blows you away and explantions like this really amaze me. bhagat kabir ji's bani is simply amazingg!!

Daas read this a bit different... please excuse my stubbornness..

The flour is our life and the chakki is our khanda of naam. As long as the chakki keeps going, as long as it keeps grinding, as long as we japp naam, our life is of use. ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਚਾਬਿਆ ਸੋਈ ਨਿਬਹਿਆ ਸਾਥ ।।

Once the chakki stops, once the khandaa stops, the flour (our life) is over and soul has nothing to take.
ਕਬੀਰ ਕੀਚੜਿ ਆਟਾ ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਆਇਓ ਹਾਥ ।।

Either way, lesson is to keep NAAM going!

Bhagatjot Singh jeeo, we all can only conjecture but none of us can claim to know the correct answer. This Daas just wrote what came to the mind. You looked at it from a different angle and came up with some beautiful thoughts. Let others too write on what they think the metaphor in the Salok is trying to teach us.

The whole idea of this thread was to prompt us to delve deeper in this Salok and try to understand what the Salok is saying and what the metaphor used in this Salok is referring to as far as spirituality is concerned. Of course the lesson to be learned is not that we should walk carefully on muddy ground so as to avoid spilling the flour in mud.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

bhai kulbir singh ji!! are sunglasses allowed in gurmat? >>>" "hahahaha

Very funny, "Vaheguru jeeo".

As for the question of sunglasses, this Daas never wears them but as far as the question if they are allowed in Gurmat is concerned, I guess it all depends on one's intention.

To wear them as a fashion statement does not seem to be in accordance to Gurmat but to wear it for the reason of protection from severe sunlight, seems to be fine. Guru Sahib knows better.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A person was grinding flour using Chakki (manual
> grinding mill) and as is the habit of people who
> ground flour, this person was eating some half
> grounded grains or even the flour. When enough
> flour was grinded, it was put in a utensil and
> carried. The person carrying flour was walking on
> muddy ground. All of sudden the flour fell into
> muddy water. Since Aata (flour) is like a powder,
> it was hard to separate it from muddy water and
> this was the flour was lost.
>
> This above is the literal meaning of the following
> verse of Bhagat Kabir jee:
>
> ਕਬੀਰ ਕੀਚੜਿ ਆਟਾ
> ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ
> ਆਇਓ ਹਾਥ ॥
> ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਚਾਬਿਆ
> ਸੋਈ ਨਿਬਹਿਆ ਸਾਥ
> ॥੨੧੫॥
>
> Now, one thing is for sure that flour is not the
> message that Bhagat jee is conveying to us. So
> what is the spiritual lesson that Bhagat jee is
> teaching us in this Salok? We can only conjecture.
> This is what comes to mind:
>
> The Chakki represents our life. So long as the
> Chakki is going on we can eat the flour but once
> the flour goes away from the Chakki and falls in
> the muddy water, nothing can be gained. In other
> words so long as our Swaas are going on, we can
> earn the Laaha of Naam. Once our Swaas (breathing)
> stops working, we can no longer get any Laaha of
> Naam.
>
> If someone can shed more light on this Salok, it
> would be great. Let’s try to understand this
> Salok to the best of our capability.
>
> Daas,
> Kulbir Singh


Veer Ji I think the atta is referred to as Atma and the mud is also referred to Maya. Atta gets trapped in the ground/maya ( mud is from the ground) The atma does not realize nothing will go with him. Thus being stuck in the mud/maya atma goes to waste. Kabir Ji is walking on the path of Naam and undestanding nothing goes with him , instead everything stays here. Material things have use only in this world they have no use in the next world.

Quote

Veer Ji I think the atta is referred to as Atma and the mud is also referred to Maya.

The second pankiti talks about eating Aata - ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਚਾਬਿਆ - while grinding it. If Aata is to be interpreted as Aatma, then what would eating Aatma (aata) mean?

Mud can be interpreted as maya.

The interpretation that this Daas did is flawed as well. I am not satisfied with it. This is why I requested other Veers and Bhains to help. Bhai MB Singh jeeo and Bhai Jasjit Singh jee, your thoughts on this would be very much appreciated.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੀਚੜਿ ਆਟਾ ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਆਇਓ ਹਾਥ ॥
ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਚਾਬਿਆ ਸੋਈ ਨਿਬਹਿਆ ਸਾਥ ॥੨੧੫॥
I think, we should not try to relate the individual symbols of the metaphor with spiritual meanings. It is better if we try to relate and feel the agony created by the metaphor used by Bhagat Ji.
Only the grains; chewed and swallowed were used. All the efforts done, otherwise, were of no use. All the grains were lost along with the efforts and time envolved in those efforts. In our life too, we have a similar situation. We are working hard but for the future. We keep on postponing Bhagati. We have the feeling that we will use our time productively. But we do not use the present. The death comes by surprise, and we have nothing but repentance with us. ਮਨ ਕੀ ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਾਹਿ ਰਹੀ ॥ ਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਭਜੇ ਨ ਤੀਰਥ ਸੇਵੇ ਚੋਟੀ ਕਾਲਿ ਗਹੀ ॥
The Salok has very very important lesson to learn.

We live by minutes or days not by years.
Each breath is important. We lose a chance with every small unit of time. The plans or schemes will carry us nowhere.

Oh God !
Everything is lost.
I got slipped and
lost everything.
All my resources,
my efforts,
alongwith my time
all are gone.
This muddy flour is of no use to me.
See my fate.
Ruined I am.
I remember
I ate
only a few
whilst grinding
Only a few, I enjoyed.
Yes, those sweet grains.
Those were only few.
Oh God !
I am ruined.
I lost
my life.

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The second pankiti talks about eating Aata -
> ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਚਾਬਿਆ - while
> grinding it. If Aata is to be interpreted as
> Aatma, then what would eating Aatma (aata) mean?
>
> Mud can be interpreted as maya.
>
> The interpretation that this Daas did is flawed as
> well. I am not satisfied with it. This is why I
> requested other Veers and Bhains to help. Bhai MB
> Singh jeeo and Bhai Jasjit Singh jee, your
> thoughts on this would be very much appreciated.
>
> Daas,
> Kulbir Singh


Veer Ji if we dont take the world atta as literal then I dont think we can take ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਚਾਬਿਆ .
as literally meaning "eating while grinding", because in riddles words are never taken literally. I dont know
what ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਚਾਬਿਆ really means, I can only assume it means - Finally reaping benefit over many rebirths ( comings and goings)

Akal Purakh created the body. Within this body he put a soul. The body is temporary it eventually gets recycled/grinded. Coming into this world the soul finds its home in this recycled matter according to its actions. The soul (atma) that gets entrapped in material things, falls in maya ( mud), and does not meet with Niranjan ( Akal Purakh). Reaping ( eating ) the benefits (collecting Naam ) of the rebirth of the human body is of most use. Otherwise , if we dont collect naam the atma just stays stuck in the mud and gains nothing from this life experience.

Quote

I dont know what ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਚਾਬਿਆ really means, I can only assume it means - Finally reaping benefit over many rebirths ( comings and goings)

Sukhdeep Singh jeeo,

ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ means while grinding and ਚਾਬਿਆ means to chew. Only such flour that was eaten/chewed while grinding was attained; rest got wasted when it fell in mud. Bibiyaan had habit that while they used to grind grains, they used to eat it as well. Only such grains or flour were used, rest got wasted when flour fell in mud.

Kulbir Singh

ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀਉ,

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ। ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਿਹ॥

ਆਪ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਪਹੇਲੀ ਰੂਪ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਪੇਸ਼ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ ਜ਼ਰੂਰ ਹੀ ਗਹਿਰੇ ਭਾਵਾਂ ਵਾਲੀ ਹੈ ਨਹੀਂ ਤਾਂ ਆਪਜੀ ਦੇ ਗਿਆਨ ਗੋਚਰੇ ਨਾ ਹੋਵੇ ਇਹ ਮੰਨਣਾ ਮੁਸ਼ਕਿਲ ਹੈ। ਪਰ ਆਪ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਸੋ ਜੋ ਦ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟਾਂਤ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਇਥੇ ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਰਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਨੁਕਤਾ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ:

ਕਬੀਰ ਕੀਚੜਿ ਆਟਾ ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਆਇਓ ਹਾਥ ॥
ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਚਾਬਿਆ ਸੋਈ ਨਿਬਹਿਆ ਸਾਥ ॥215॥

ਵਿਚੋਂ ਜੋ ਭਾਵ ਦਾਸ ਦੀ ਤੁੱਛ ਬੁੱਧੀ ਵਿਚ ਆ ਸਕਿਆ ਉਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸਵਾਸਾ ਰੂਪੀ ਆਟੇ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਸਵਾਸ ਇਕ ਮਨ ਇਕ ਚਿਤ ਹੋ ਕਰਤੇ ਦੀ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ ਲਗਾ ਦਿੱਤੇ ਉਹੀ ਹੀ ਸਾਥ ਨਿਭਣੇ ਹਨ ਬਾਕੀ ਦੇ ਵਿਰਥੇ ਹੀ ਗਏ। ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਤੋਂ ਭਾਵ ਜੋ ਸਵਾਸ ਸਰੀਰ ਰੂਪੀ ਚੱਕੀ ਵਿਚ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਬਾਹਰ ਨਿਕਲਿਆ ਅਤੇ ਚਾਬਿਆ ਤੋਂ ਭਾਵ ਜਿਹੜਾ ਸਵਾਸ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ ਲੱਗਿਆ। ਅਤੇ ਬਾਕੀ ਦੇ ਸਵਾਸ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਲੱਗ ਗਏ ਉਹ ਕਿਸੇ ਕੰਮ ਦੇ ਨਹੀਂ। ਹੁਣ ਇੱਕ ਗੱਲ ਹੋਰ ਵੇਖਣ ਵਾਲੀ ਹੈ ਇਸ ਦ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟਾਂਤ ਵਿਚ ਉਹ ਇਹ ਕਿ ਦਾਣੇ ਪੀਂਹਦਿਆਂ ਤਾਂ ਕੋਈ ਭੀ ਆਟਾ ਨਹੀ ਖਾਂਦਾ ਸਭ ਮਗਰੋਂ ਦੀ ਪਕਾ ਕੇ ਖਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਫਿਰ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਪੀਸਣ ਵੇਲੇ ਹੀ ਖਾਣ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਕਿਉਂ ਕਰ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ? ਉਹ ਇਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਕਿ ਅਸੀਂ ਸਾਰੇ ਹੀ ਸੋਚਦੇ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਸਵੇਰੇ ਉਠ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਜਪਾਗੇਂ ਜਾਂ ਫਲਾਣੇ ਵੇਲੇ ਨਾਮ ਜਪ ਲਵਾਂਗੇ ਹੁਣ ਆਹ ਕੰਮ ਕਰ ਲਈਏ ਜਾਂ ਅਜੇ ਉਮਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਈ ਅਗਾਂਹ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਧਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਵਿਚ ਪਵਾਂਗੇ। ਪਰ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਕੀਚੜ ਤੋਂ ਭਾਵ ਕਲਯੁੱਗ ਜਾਂ ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ ਹੀ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ। ਜਿਹੜਾ ਇਸ ਵਿਚ ਖਚਤ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਭਾਵ ਜਦੋਂ ਇਹ ਸੋਚਣ ਲੱਗ ਪਿਆ ਮਗਰੋਂ ਆਟਾ ਗੁੰਨਾਗੇ, ਤਵੇ ਤੇ ਪਕਾਂ ਕੇ ਖਾਵਾਂਗੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਤੱਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਅੱਪੜ ਵੀ ਹੋਣਾ ਕਿ ਨਹੀਂ ਇਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਪੀਸਤ ਪੀਸਤ ਚਾਬਿਆ, ਆ ਰਿਹਾ ਜਾ ਰਿਹਾ ਸਵਾਸ ਉਸਦੀ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ ਲੰਘੇ ਓਹੀ ਹੀ ਸਾਥ ਨਿਭੇਗਾ ਤਥਾ:

ਜੋ ਦਮੁ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵਈ ਸੋ ਦਮੁ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਾਇ ॥3॥ (ਪੰਨਾ 730)

ਬਾਕੀ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਹੀ ਦੱਸ ਸਕਦੇ। ਦਾਸ ਪਾਪੀ ਦੀ ਕੀ ਜੁਅਰਤ ਕਿ ਕੋਈ ਅਰਥ ਕਰ ਸਕੇ। ਅਗਾਧ ਬੋਧ ਬਾਣੀ ਦੀ ਸੋਝੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਦੇਵਣ ਜੀ। ਬਾਕੀ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਆਪ ਜੀ ਨੂੰ ਠੀਕ ਲੱਗਣ ਇਸ ਦਾਸਰੇ ਨੂੰ ਭੀ ਸਮਝਾ ਦੇਣੇ ਜੀ।

ਗੁਰੂ ਚਰਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਭੌਰਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਦਾਸ,
ਜਸਜੀਤ ਸਿੰਘ

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I think, we should not try to relate the individual symbols of the metaphor with spiritual meanings. It is better if we try to relate and feel the agony created by the metaphor used by Bhagat Ji.

MB Singh jeeo, Thanks for reminding us to feel the agony felt when all the hard work of grinding flour is lost when it falls in mud.

And Bhai Jasjit Singh jeeo, you have given excellent thoughts on this Shabad. Your interpretation of grains as Swaas and chewing as chanting Naam seems close to the true meaning.

Thanks to all Gurmukhs - including Bhagatjot Singh, Sukhdeep Singh - for taking time and blessing us with some very lofty spiritual thoughts.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Chatrik asked Piara ji how Chatrik can meet HIM, This is what HE said:

ਕਬੀਰ ਹਰਦੀ ਪੀਅਰੀ ਚੂੰਨਾਂ ਊਜਲ ਭਾਇ ॥

ਰਾਮ ਸਨੇਹੀ ਤਉ ਮਿਲੈ ਦੋਨਉ ਬਰਨ ਗਵਾਇ ॥੫੬॥

Kabeer, turmeric is yelow, and lime is white.
You shall meet the Beloved Lord, only when both colors are lost. ||56||

Dont quite know why Piara ji likes to give difficult ridles. Its not that Piara ji doesn't know Chatrik is stupid ='(

Chota veer