How should Degh be brought in Darbar - in Karaahi or Baata

I have long been of the opinion that Degh should be brought to the Darbar of Guru Sahib in a Baata and not in the Karaahi it is cooked in but recently I had a conversation with Master Jaswant Singh of Siri Amritsar Sahib and he mentioned that during the times of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, Degh was always brought in the Darbar in Karaahi as opposed to a Baata.

He quoted Bhai Surain Singh jee who spent a long time with Bhai Sahib and was his gadvaee (personal assistant) and who was strongly in favour of bringing Degh in Karaahi and not in a Baata. I asked Master jee, what was the opinion of Giani Harbhajan Singh jee Shatrana, who too has done Sangat of Bhai Sahib and Master jee confirmed that Giani jee too is of this opinion.

Master jee gave an interesting quote from Bhai Gurdaas jee’s baani to prove that Degh should be brought in Karaahi. Bhai Gurdaas jee has written that when Pir Dastgir asked Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee to prove that there are Lakhs of worlds as opposed to only 14 levels, Siri Guru jee took his son along and showed him countless worlds, in a matter of split second. On their way back, they attended the end part of a Gurmat Samagam (in some other world) when Degh was being distributed. As a proof, Guru Sahib and the son of Pir Dastgir brought a bowl of Degh from the Karaahi where Degh was kept. The Shabad is as follows:

ਪੁਛੇ ਫਰਿ ਤਕਰਾਰ ਕਰਿ ਏਹ ਫਕੀਰ ਵਡਾ ਅਤਾਈ॥
ਏਥੇ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਗਦਾਦ ਦੇ ਵਡੀ ਕਰਾਮਾਤਿ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ॥
ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ਆਕਾਸ ਲਖ ਓੜਕਿ ਭਾਲੀ ਖਬਰੁ ਸੁਣਾਈ॥
ਫੇਰਿ ਦੁਰਾਇਣ ਦਸਤਗੀਰ ਅਸੀ ਭਿ ਵੇਖਾਂ ਜੋ ਤੁਹਿ ਪਾਈ॥
ਨਾਲਿ ਲੀਤਾ ਬੇਟਾ ਫਰਿ ਦਾ ਅਖੀ ਮੀਟਿ ਗਇਆ ਹਾਵਾਈ॥
ਲਖ ਅਕਾਸ ਪਤਾਲ ਲਖ ਅਖਿ ਫੁਰਕ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਭਿ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ॥
ਭਰਿ ਕਚਕੌਲ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਦਾ ਧੁਰੋ ਪਤਾਲੋ ਲਈ ਕੜਾਈ॥
ਜਾਹਰ ਕਲਾ ਨ ਛਪੈ ਛਪਾਈ ॥36॥

Of special interest is the second-last pankiti which mentions that a bowl (ਕਚਕੌਲ) of Degh was taken from the Karaahi (ਕੜਾਈ॥).

After hanging up, I called Bapu jee (Giani Harbhajan Singh jee) and asked him to confirm if during the times of Bhai Sahib, Degh was always brought in Karaahi as opposed to Baata. He said that it is true that Degh was always brought in Karaahi. Bapu jee narrated an incident where Bhai Sahib and other Singhs did a Samagam at a Sikh regiment. A lot of Fauji Sangat attended the Samagam and Singhs prepared Degh in a very big Karaahi that had 4 handles. After the Degh was prepared, the Faujis asked the Singhs to bring Degh in big Sarblohi drums and Pateelas but Singhs said that they would take Degh in Karaahi only.

In the light of the above stated facts about Degh, we are going to try to follow this Maryada and bring Degh in Karaahi as opposed to Baatay.

Bhul Chuk dee Maafi jee.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

in Jatha smagams in India(in most if not all), especially Amritsar smagam(as Chatrik recalls), Degh is still brought in Kaaraahi

Chota veer

On a lighter note.. this is great news!

One less bata for us to maanjh at programs : )

Thank you for sharing jee, very informative

How very interesting! Singhs I know have also been of the same opinion that Degh should be bought into darbar sahib in bata and not karahi. This new information is interesting and seems pretty good and followable.

After all, who knows better than bhramgiani gursikh bhai sahib gurdas ji and ranglay sajjans such as bhai sahib randhir singh ji, bhai surain singh ji and the ranglay sajjans of today that you, bhai kulbir singh ji, have spoken to.

Thank you ji.

Oh! what if guru sahib is in another universe spreading sikhi and guru sahib does the same miracle and shows someone else lakhs of worlds. Imagine if guru sahib then appears in sangat on this earth and takes degh, i would i hope i would be in such a sangat!

Guru Piyare Jio,

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

Quote
He quoted Bhai Surain Singh jee who spent a long time with Bhai Sahib and was his gadvaee (personal assistant) and who was strongly in favour of bringing Degh in Karaahi and not in a Baata.

At the same time as daas mentioned some where in earlier posts that he (Bhai Surain Singh jee) was also strong believer of preparing the Degh on Wood fire not as we do on Gas and Diesel Bhathi (stove). So I think if we have to change how we brought Degh to Guru Darbar is more important then we should also change on what fire it should be prepared i.e on wood fire instead of Gas.

With Regards,
Daas

Bhai Jasjit Singh jeeo, I failed to write that Bhai Surain Singh used to say that Bhai Sahib used to insist that Degh be brought in Karaahi.

As for preparing Degh using wood, this was the view of Bhai Surain Singh jee alone and there is no mention of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee too insisting on this, nor is there any mention of any other senior Gurmukh insisting on this. Actually, in olden days, either wood or paathiyaan (fuel made from cow-dung) were used as fuel. In comparison to these two sources of fuel, Paathiyaan were not used as fuel for Degh but I doubt there would have been any opposition to coals or natural gas or Hydro (electric) fuel we used today.

The purpose of the above article is not to stir any controversy but to inform the Sangat of newly found facts. Sangat is free to make their own decision, based on Bibek Budh blessed by Guru Sahib.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

I personally see some positive points with Karahi as comapred to Batta.

Firstly, when Deg is prepared and transferred to a Batta; some of the prepared Deg sticks to some parts of the Karahi. That Karahi-part of Deg never accompanies the Deg; which is to be taken to the DARBAR. So, that Karahi-part of Deg will be used in different ways. If ignored, that is disrespect. Birds and animals may like to enjoy it; in India. If used for preparing, other langar items; that will be used; before the actual major part of Deg. If Karahi is cleaned and washed down the drain; that is again disrespect. So, to avoid all these complicacies; it is best to have Deg in Karahi.

Secondly, at very big gatherings and very large amount of DEG preparations; it is not feasible to have so many Sarabloh utensils of that much big size. Moreover, it is always risky to transfer, so much DEG, which is very hot. Khalsa used to be in Jungles; for so many years. Can we imagine, such transfer of DEG, in those situations. This "compulsion of transfer "; is seemingly a recent invention only.

The idea of bringing Deg in Batta (and never in Karahi); basically stems from the feeling that it is not "cultured and good mannered" or "decency" to take the Deg to Darbar; in the Karahi, in which we prepare DEG. Some of us, with such feeling; do give a further argument. They say that, "Do we eat food in the pan, in which we prepare it? If not, why we do so for GURU JI." This argument at its face value is respect of the Guru Sahib. We must respect this feeling of our Gursikh brothers. Recently; my wife prepared the Deg; for a kirtan programme in a house for a small Sangat and broght it in Karahi. A respected Uncle Ji was very much annoyed and did not do the Ardaas for this Deg.----------------------------------I will never dare to speak, my part of argument to that Uncle Ji, face to face.

My submission is that, Respect of Guru Sahib, should not be fashioned in our worldy standards of Dining Table manners and decency. There is lot beyond that. Gurmat respect ethics for Guru Sahib are different, than used for worldly people. We are not as such bothered about, what suits the public view or how the public looks at those parts of MARYADA.

For an example, I take case of SARABLOH. Food prepared in Sarabloh, becomes blackish in color. It is not very nice to look at, for the public at large. The view is not good. Yet, the SARABLOH is great. Similarly Sarabloh Kara; may not shine as much as a Stainless Steel Kara. Yet that dull look of Sarabloh is more beautiful than the bright stainless steel look.

Having said all that, I do respect the uncle Ji for his respect for Guru Sahib, for being so committed on Karahi vs Batta issue.

MB Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For an example, I take case of SARABLOH. Food
> prepared in Sarabloh, becomes blackish in color.
> It is not very nice to look at, for the public at
> large. The view is not good.

Veerji

This daas has found at times with the western friends that they liked the dark color of food more ad also commented that it tastes yummier. I think its more on the desi front that apne punjabi do more nakhre.

))

lol
bhagat jot singh

wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh!!

I have always believed sikhi to be a practical way of life. Small program, fewer people, get the Degh in a sarbloh Bata. For a larger scale operation, a sarbloh Karahi is more useful as it is easier to carry using the handles and generally larger Karahis are more available than huge Batae.

There is only one point of importance (to me) and that is- the Karahi being brought in should not be all black and sticky from the outside as it can give off smoky odours in the Darbar Sahib and perhaps even discolour the Ramalae it will be placed on.

The idea is to keep it simple and practical, not to fall into rituals about issues.

Deg tegh fateh!!!!

These are some very interesting facts brought forward by Bhai Kulbir Singh jee. I never thought of this before. I'm learning something new from this site everyday.