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Differences in v/baimukh and manmukh?

Posted by newlearner 
my understanding is weak so i am writting here for some answers. in detail, what is the difference in a v/baimukh and manmukh?

what is worse out of the two, a manmukh or baimukh? what does gurbani tell us about the two?



please answer in depth, it would be greatly appreciated.. as far as i understand, a baimukh is far worse. please explain
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Gurfateh ive never seen it spelled with a "b". In anand sahib it is spelled with a "v" as veymukh. a veymukh is someone who quits guru sahibs rahat, a gurmukh follows gurbani's teachings, a manmukhs tries to make their own spirituality and teachings. simple. gurmat= guru sahibs teachings. Manmat= yer own teachings not inline with gurmat. which is worse??(veymukhs) being a gurmukh is every religions goal in life. read anand sahib to get an insight of guru sahibs view on veymukhs. vahiguroo @:-)€
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hmm.... thanks... can anyone else share something more deeper with gurbani tukhs pls.

as for the spelling pritamsinghkhalsa ji the following is from bhai gurdasjis vaars spells it with a 'b'

hau AprwDI gunhgwr hau bymuK mMdw]

ho aparaadhhee gunehagaar ho baemukh ma(n)dhaa||

the spelling in this case doesnt change the meaning so its not really an issue. thanks for your input.. pls others also share

once again thanks pritamsinghkhalsa ji smiling smiley!

waheguru!!!!!!!!!!
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The literal meaning of the word Manmukh is such person whose mukh i.e. face is towards the mind i.e. one who follows the mind is a Manmukh. Bemukh is such person who turns his mukh or face away from the Guru. One who disowns his Guru is a Bemukh. The closest English word I can think of is an Apostate. The literal meaning of Bemukh could also be such person who does not have a mukh i.e. face. "Be" in Farsi means "without" and Mukh means face. A person who does not have mukh is such person who has no respect. A person who becomes a bemukh also becomes without face i.e. he loses respect in this world and the next one.

Traditionally, Manmukh is such person who has not yet become a Gurmukh i.e. has not gotten initiated into Sikhi. On the other hand, Bemukh is such person who was once a Gurmukh but has turned away from the Guru. In Siri Anand Sahib, Guru Sahib has described the state of a Bemukh as follows:

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਵੇਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ॥
ਪਾਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਰ ਥੈ ਕੋਈ ਪੁਛਹੁ ਬਿਬੇਕੀਆ ਜਾਏ ॥
ਅਨੇਕ ਜੂਨੀ ਭਰਮਿ ਆਵੈ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥
ਫਿਰਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਪਾਏ ਲਾਗਿ ਚਰਣੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣਾਏ ॥
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥੨੨॥


Translation: If someone becomes Vemukh (turns away from the Guru) from Guru, such person can never attain salvation. You may go and ask wise people and they too will say the same thing i.e. one cannot get salvation from anywhere else. Such person wanders in many life forms but does not get emancipation without the true Guru. Then when he seeks refuge in the true Guru, the true Guru enables him to listen to the Shabda (i.e. Naam). Siri Guru jee using their Mohar (Nanak) asks us to think deeply that without the true Guru, one cannot get emancipation.

A person who becomes a Bemukh has to come back to the Guru and earn the true spiritual earnings of Naam. There is no other way out.

If we really think of it, a Bemukh is also a Manmukh because a person turns away from the true Guru only when he listens to his mind instead of Gurmat (Guru's teachings). So we can say that every Bemukh is also a Manmukh but every Manmukh is not necessarily a Bemukh. Now if we think more deeply, even us who are initiated Sikhs (Amritdhari) of Guru Sahib, are manmukhs up to some extent. A 100% Gurmukh is such person who follows 100% Gurmat i.e. is totally imbued in Naam. Such person is one with Vaheguru. Up until our minds are embroiled in Maya, we are Manmukh in proportion we are entangled in Maya.

Who is worse? It seems like a Bemukh is worse because he was once a Gurmukh but turned away from Guru Sahib. He gets heavier punishment than a Manmukh. Having said that, I think a Bemukh has a better chance at attaining salvation as compared to a Manmukh because since he once received the Gurmantra / Naam from Guru Sahib, it will definitely sprout one day. It may take time but a Bemukh is surely destined to be Mukat (emancipated) one day. Manmukh may wander till infinite time. The above stated pauri from Siri Anand Sahib too gives hope to Bemukhs by saying that they will become free when they come to the refuge of the true Guru.

As far as two kinds of spellings - Bemukh or Vemukh - are concerned, both are correct and have been used in Gurbani. Most common use is Vemukh but Bemukh too is used as is evident from two pankitis listed below.


ਸਾਕਤ ਨਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਕੀਆ ਤੇ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਹਰਿ ਭਰਮਾਵੈਗੋ ॥

ਜਨ ਕਾ ਰਾਖਾ ਆਪਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਬੇਮੁਖ ਕਉ ਆਇ ਪਹੂਚੀ ਮੀਚ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥


Kulbir Singh
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thanks bhi kulbir singh that waz reali gudd... really interesting n detailed i hope mahraj does kir[pa n i neva become baimukh. so baimukh is worse jus as i thought.. i feel sorry for people who become baimukh n ruin theire life. help them mahraj

also how does one become baimukh in terms of rahet mayada? by 4 bjj kurithhs? thank u for helping
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Quote

also how does one become baimukh in terms of rahet mayada? by 4 bjj kurithhs? thank u for helping

By commiting any of the 4 Bajjar Kurehits one becomes a Patit. Patit is definitely a Bemukh as well but there are other ways to become a bemukh as well. If a person loses faith in Guru Sahib, then too he becomes a bemukh. A Sikh who stops wearing kakaars too would become a bemukh. I guess a Patit as well as a Tankhaiya can be classified as a bemukh from Guru Sahib.

Kulbir Singh
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so from what veerji has said, i think an historical example of beymukh would be the chali mukhte, had left Guru Gobind Singh Sahib at Anandpur Fort and signed a document stating that they were no longer sikhs of Guru Sahib.

of course, we all know the rest of the story, thanks to Mata Bhag Kaur jee, they went back to Guru Sahib to beg forgiveness and lay down their lives fighting for the panth.

so here we have a famous sakhi of beymukh becoming gurmukh once again.
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Excellent example, Bhain jee 1Kaur jee. I did not think of it but yes this is a perfect example of how one can become a bemukh by losing faith in Guru Sahib. And how dramatic this incident was. Bhai Maha Singh gave Bedaava in writing declaring that he and his companions were no longer Sikhs of Guru Sahib. How magnanimous of Guru Sahib to keep that Bedaava with him for so long and then at the request of Maha Singh tear it into small pieces.

Kulbir Singh
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So...

What's the difference between Sanmukh and Gurmukh?
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Sanmukh is such person who has his face towards i.e. obeys the hukams of Guru Sahib. Sanmukh is a person who is a Gursikh in good standing. In Siri Anand Sahib Guru Sahib has given us the definition of a Sanmukh as follows:

ਜੇ ਕੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਵੈ ॥
ਹੋਵੈ ਤ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਸਿਖੁ ਕੋਈ ਜੀਅਹੁ ਰਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਲੇ ॥
ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਧਿਆਏ ਅੰਤਰ ਆਤਮੈ ਸਮਾਲੇ ॥
ਆਪੁ ਛਡਿ ਸਦਾ ਰਹੈ ਪਰਣੈ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਕੋਏ ॥
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਸੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਨਮੁਖੁ ਹੋਏ ॥੨੧॥


Only such Sikh can be said to be Sanmukh to Guru who by heart stays with the Guru (i.e. meditates on Naam by heart). He meditates on the Charan Kamal (lotus feet) of the Guru i.e. recites Naam; and deep inside maintains Vaheguru i.e. continuously meditates on Vaheguru. He selflessly stays committed to the Guru and does not recognize any other authority but the Guru. In the end using his Mohar, Guru Sahib addressing the Sant Gursikhs says that the Sikh who has aforementioned qualities is Sanmukh to the Guru.

Gurmukh too is such person who is a Sanmukh. It seems that these two words are synonyms.

Kulbir Singh
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Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent example, Bhain jee 1Kaur jee. I did not
> think of it but yes this is a perfect example of
> how one can become a bemukh by losing faith in
> Guru Sahib.

Veer Ji, Bhein Ji;------------------------------------------------Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. I am sorry to slightly differ you; here.The circumstances under which; FORTY ONES left Guru Sahib were very very hard & exceptional. They left Guru Ji; simply to save their lives. That was a momentry or incidental decision. They did not left the Guru or differ with Him in principles or faith. Theirs was not a life long decision. They did not wanted to die, under those cicumstances.Though Guru Sahib made it like that by "having them to write BEDAVA"---------------- ( I am not sure; I need to read that chapter again. May be; theirs was a strategic decision during the battle)-----------------------------They must be given an allowance for their trying times.--------------Each of us loves to live but not to die. Even then; we will not like to be called Bemukh.

Of course, Mata Bhag Kaur Ji challenged their decision. She may have called them Bemukh. The moment; they felt that "we are Bemukh"------------------they rushed back.

It seems; we have a range of "Bemukh-----ness". Some are at lower level, some are at higher level.

Anyway; please do respond to my post. And let me know; if I have made my point clear.
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No matter how much we justify the reason why Bhai Maha Singh and his companions gave bedaava, the truth of the matter is that they became bemukh right when they disobeyed Guru Sahib and gave him Bedaava. The Bedaava clearly indicated that they were no longer Guru's Sikhs and Guru Sahib was no longer their Guru. There is not a more clear way of becoming a Bemukh.

Kulbir Singh
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