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Posted by Arrow 
Re: Veganism
June 11, 2018 12:02PM
1.) You mean to say, 60% of world's agriculture goes for cows? You must be quoting some study of some scientific source, and you must not have done research of your own.
You mean there are more cows in dairy than humans in world? smiling smiley

If a cow eats 100 pounds, it means the milk it gives contains a lot of energy. Which means dairy gives a lot of concentrated energy. How can other food replace it? This is the reason that people who dont consume dairy, tend to eat lot of other stuff which causes obesity, dissatisfaction. While a dairy consumer remains satisfied with a glass of milk/some ghee, and is good to go for whole day!!
So getting rid of dairy will bring eating disorders, it has actually, people who dont consume ghee in diet, tend to eat more, and also tend to have weak joints, other diseases.
Also, there are more humans in world than cows, 100 pounds of food for single cow if removed, humans will need more agriculture to sustain.

So this is very weak or research that IF dairy gone, 60% of agriculture will come down, NO, nature tends to balance, other food will be needed in plate for humans, it will put more pressure on industry. Industry has always caused excessive agriculture, dairy is very small proportion of it. i.e why they introduced GMO, to have more produce for their products apart from dairy.

So karma remains same, removing dairy is not less sufering, suffering will always remain there for food. As more food for world = more farming

2.) Habitat destruction will remain in absence of dairy, because more agriculture will be needed to put food on large population of humans. equation remains similar.

3.) Child labor will become worse, if we bring down 60% agriculture going to dairy (although dont agree with this percentage). Also as i said, farming will remain similar to feed other type of food to people to bring same amount of energy in them as dairy. Also humans are more in number than cows.
if one cow gives 25 litres suppose on average, it can feed 25 people a day on average. But if you remove milk from diet of these people, they will need same amount of energy from other food which is not as concentrated in energy as milk. So industry will have to provide it, and it too will come from agriculture.

4.) Farming will never come down as already proved, fishe distruction will remain irrespective of dairy farming. So no point going there.

5.) A cow eats good amount of food to produce high energy milk. Can you eat same amount of food as whole to get that amount of energy? Same way how can you eat same amount of almonds compared to concentrated almond milk?
There is no replacement to milk. Dairy is too high in energy to keep one going for whole day.

6.) If we start thinking of welfare of whole world including cows/other species, we will waste time being in the world. The only way is that we follow Khalsa Rehit , Jap naam and reach brahm Gyan by Guru's Kirpra. yes compassion is needed, we need to be compassionate in direct involvement with any being. But indirect compassion can never be taken care of, need not be focussed upon.
Dairy has always been part of Sikhi, and will remain, and Sikhs will continue doing Bhagti instead of caring about veganisms or other isms who want to bring down povery, suffering etc in the world, and has never been successful everrr!!! The only way of ending suffering is to firstly end your own suffering inside you instead of worrying about world.

7.) Maybe you are not born in India, but Ghyo/Ghee only means clarified butter produced from cow/buffalow milk since centuries. Ask a person in village that what is Ghee, he will point that its pproduced from cow/buffalo milk.
Now there are people like you who want to label any other wax, plant oil /butter etc and label it as "Ghee". Guru Sahib didnt need to define Ghee as it was common sense then and even today that in Punjabi, Ghee is prepared from Cow/Buffalo milk. This has been a tradition. No one ever said that coconut oil is Ghee.

So if Degh prepared by Guru Sahib was from "Ghee", even today Khalsa will prepare it from Ghee!!
Others, non-Khalsa can do whatever they want.

8.) Ethical Viewpint (exploitation) : what you said makes no sense. Because if you focus on stopping exploiting other species, you will die of hunger, and also you wont be able to live as a normal human.

So you mean If Guru Sahib rides horse, he exploited it? People who did farming using animals exploited them? Now you will say times have changed, yes they have, but still exploitation remains same, it cant be eradicated. Now industries exploit animals if humans ride cars, or drive tractors.

Again those who keep focus in making world a better place instead of getting naam and doing Bhagti, will never be emancipated. there are thousands of activists wasting time for environment, saving animals etc, but instead they need to take them to Brahm Gyan awastha first, then they can save world around them in spiritual way.

If a sikh joins these activists, will not be able to do Bhagti. That is why Guru Sahib gave bare minimum Khalsa Rehit and then focus on Kamayee!!

9.) Sookhsham haumai remains till Karam Khand, not the big haumai like "i will change the world", that has to be left in very early awastha, actually that has to be left when one just takes Amrit and start Bhagti. So think about that. One needs to focus on one's limited time which only needs to be spent in Bhagti to rise above Maya.
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Re: Veganism
June 13, 2018 11:51PM
While agreeing with the compassion concern about our food as a Sikh; I request to reread and consider the references to milk, ghee, buffalo and cows in Gurbani. Here are some PANKITIES.

Milk, Ghee in Guru Ka Langar

ਬਲਵੰਡ ਖੀਵੀ ਨੇਕ ਜਨ ਜਿਸੁ ਬਹੁਤੀ ਛਾਉ ਪਤ੍ਰਾਲੀ ॥
Balwand says that Khivi, the Guru's wife, is a noble woman, who gives soothing, leafy shade to all.

ਲੰਗਰਿ ਦਉਲਤਿ ਵੰਡੀਐ ਰਸੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਖੀਰਿ ਘਿਆਲੀ ॥
She distributes the bounty of the Guru's Langar; the kheer - the rice pudding and ghee, is like sweet ambrosia.

ਨਿਤ ਰਸੋਈ ਤੇਰੀਐ ਘਿਉ ਮੈਦਾ ਖਾਣੁ ॥
Your kitchen always has ghee and flour to eat.

Bhagat Dhana Ji praying to Akal Purakh for Milk and Ghee

ਗੋਪਾਲ ਤੇਰਾ ਆਰਤਾ ॥
O Lord of the world, this is Your lamp-lit worship service.
ਜੋ ਜਨ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰੰਤੇ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਕਾਜ ਸਵਾਰਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
You are the Arranger of the affairs of those humble beings who perform Your devotional worship service. ||1||Pause||
ਦਾਲਿ ਸੀਧਾ ਮਾਗਉ ਘੀਉ ॥
Lentils, flour and ghee - these things, I beg of You.
ਹਮਰਾ ਖੁਸੀ ਕਰੈ ਨਿਤ ਜੀਉ ॥
My mind shall ever be pleased.
ਪਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀਆ ਛਾਦਨੁ ਨੀਕਾ ॥
Shoes, fine clothes,
ਅਨਾਜੁ ਮਗਉ ਸਤ ਸੀ ਕਾ ॥੧॥
And grain of seven kinds - I beg of You. ||1||
ਗਊ ਭੈਸ ਮਗਉ ਲਾਵੇਰੀ ॥
A milk cow, and a water buffalo, I beg of You,
ਇਕ ਤਾਜਨਿ ਤੁਰੀ ਚੰਗੇਰੀ ॥
And a fine Turkestani horse.
ਘਰ ਕੀ ਗੀਹਨਿ ਚੰਗੀ ॥
A good wife to care for my home.
ਜਨੁ ਧੰਨਾ ਲੇਵੈ ਮੰਗੀ ॥੨॥੪॥
Your humble servant Dhanna begs for these things, Lord. ||2||4||
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Re: Veganism
June 14, 2018 03:02AM
No one finds fault in Ghee and silk-----------------

ਘਿਅ ਪਟ ਭਾਂਡਾ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥
Ghia Patt Bhaanddaa Kehai N Koe ||
No one says that ghee or silk are polluted.

ਐਸਾ ਭਗਤੁ ਵਰਨ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ॥
Aisaa Bhagath Varan Mehi Hoe ||
Such is the Lord's devotee, no matter what his social status is.

ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਨਿਵੇ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥
Thaerai Naam Nivae Rehae Liv Laae ||
Those who bow in reverence to the Naam, the Name of the Lord, remain absorbed in Your Love.

ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ ਦਰਿ ਭੀਖਿਆ ਪਾਇ ॥੩॥੧॥੨॥
Naanak Thin Dhar Bheekhiaa Paae ||3||1||2||
Nanak begs for charity at their door. ||3||1||2||

God drinks milk offered by Bhagat Nam Dev Ji

ਦੂਧੁ ਕਟੋਰੈ ਗਡਵੈ ਪਾਨੀ ॥
Dhoodhh Kattorai Gaddavai Paanee ||
Naam Dayv milked the brown cow,
ਕਪਲ ਗਾਇ ਨਾਮੈ ਦੁਹਿ ਆਨੀ ॥੧॥
Kapal Gaae Naamai Dhuhi Aanee ||1||
And brought a cup of milk and a jug of water to his family god. ||1||
ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਉ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੇ ਰਾਇ ॥
Dhoodhh Peeo Gobindhae Raae ||
"Please drink this milk, O my Sovereign Lord God.
ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਉ ਮੇਰੋ ਮਨੁ ਪਤੀਆਇ ॥
Dhoodhh Peeo Maero Man Patheeaae ||
Drink this milk and my mind will be happy.
ਨਾਹੀ ਤ ਘਰ ਕੋ ਬਾਪੁ ਰਿਸਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Naahee Th Ghar Ko Baap Risaae ||1|| Rehaao ||
Otherwise, my father will be angry with me.""||1||Pause||
ਸਦ਼ਇਨ ਕਟੋਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭਰੀ ॥
Suoein Kattoree Anmrith Bharee ||
Taking the golden cup, Naam Dayv filled it with the ambrosial milk,
ਲੈ ਨਾਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਗੈ ਧਰੀ ॥੨॥
Lai Naamai Har Aagai Dhharee ||2||
And placed it before the Lord. ||2||
ਏਕੁ ਭਗਤੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਬਸੈ ॥
Eaek Bhagath Maerae Hiradhae Basai ||
The Lord looked upon Naam Dayv and smiled.
ਨਾਮੇ ਦੇਖਿ ਨਰਾਇਨੁ ਹਸੈ ॥੩॥
Naamae Dhaekh Naraaein Hasai ||3||
This one devotee abides within my heart.""||3||
ਦੂਧੁ ਪੀਆਇ ਭਗਤੁ ਘਰਿ ਗਇਆ ॥
Dhoodhh Peeaae Bhagath Ghar Gaeiaa ||
The Lord drank the milk, and the devotee returned home.
ਨਾਮੇ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਭਇਆ ॥੪॥੩॥
Naamae Har Kaa Dharasan Bhaeiaa ||4||3||
Thus did Naam Dayv come to receive the Blessed Vision of the Lord's Darshan. ||4||3||

Milch animals are better than human beings if-------

ਪਸੂ ਮਿਲਹਿ ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਖੜੁ ਖਾਵਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਦੇਹਿ ॥
Pasoo Milehi Changiaaeeaa Kharr Khaavehi Anmrith Dhaehi ||
Even beasts have value, as they eat grass and give milk.

ਨਾਮ ਵਿਹੂਣੇ ਆਦਮੀ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੇਹਿ ॥੩॥
Naam Vihoonae Aadhamee Dhhrig Jeevan Karam Karaehi ||3||
Without the Naam, the mortal's life is cursed, as are the actions he performs. ||3||
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