Basics of Biology- Do aliens exist?

I recently came across the following video on the net
[www.youtube.com]

While I agree with the presenter that Aliens cannot visit this Earth the video seems to lack basic knowledge of Science and twist the meanings of Gurbani. The concept of aliens is purely mythological and is based on Hollywood movies. It has nothing to do with Science. As the presenter rightfully mentions to inhabit a world your body has to be suitable for that world. Basic biology teaches us Aliens from another Planet cannot inhabit this world If aliens were to inhabit this Earth they would have to destroy all fauna and flora meaning aliens and human beings cannot coexist or be present in the same world.

Gurbani is not written in the language of Science its written in the language of devotion . Science is much below Gurbani and for this reason Gurbani does not mention Science. However, the language of Gurbani catered to the people of that time and spoke to people in their vernacular and for this reason it refers to Islamic and Hindu concepts which were understood by the people of that time. It does not necessarily endorse all these concepts. For example it may endorse one creator and the notion of karma but it does not endorse all concepts of other religions.

The concept of char khani (ਅੰਡਜ ਜੇਰਜ ਉਤਭੁਜ, and ਸੇਤਜ)is not to be taken literal especially in regards to creation under ਸੇਤਜ as the presenter does in the video. How can life be created from mere heat and sweat? The concept or theory of spontaneous generation though accredited to Aristotle by the West was actually developed by Mannu.
From hot moisture spring stinging and biting insects, lice, flies, bugs, and all other (creatures) of that kind which are produced by heat (chapter 1 rule 45- manu dharma Shastra).

Both Aristotle and Mannu came much before Guru Nanak Dev Ji. To assume Gurbani accepts this pseudo scientific notion of insect beings born from thin air is taking Gurbani out of context. Insects come from tiny eggs which can be seen using microscopes. Gurbani does not speak of Science, it is far above Science. In regards to Science, life is created through the replication of cells. Whether life comes from the womb, eggs, or the dirt it ultimately comes from cells. Even insect has cells based on its ancestors genetic information. Physical life cannot just emerge out of thin air it precludes from other organisms. There are countless types of creations but in this world Earth life originates from cells in which genetic information is passed on. In this karam-boomi, life cannot just appear out of thin air. Whether born in a egg, womb, or plant the jeev atma inherits its family genetics based on its karma no life can just randomly take on a body which has no family genetic information.

If we are to accept the theory of spontaneous generation just because Gurbani gives reference to it then we should also accept the notion of Christian creationism ( Adam and Eve myth) because Gurbani refers to this as well.
ਬਾਬਾ ਆਦਮ ਕਉ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਦਿਖਾਈ ॥ ਉਨਿ ਭੀ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਘਨੇਰੀ ਪਾਈ ॥੨॥


These notions of creation are simple references they are not acknowledgements that such things exist. We should keep Science out of Gurbani and Gurbani out of science. They are not the same nor do they teach the same thing.

Suthra Singh,

Looks like you have not seen the video carefully. The video does not say anywhere that science claims anything about aliens. It was mentioned in the beginning that many people believe so based on science fiction films. A lot of Sikhs also believe that aliens come to our world. This video was done to debunk such claims. That's all. Gurmat believes that there are people in other worlds similar to our world and in this video we have mentioned this together with our belief that aliens can't come to this world using any scientific means. I don't understand what has upset you so much about this video.

Quote

The concept of char khani (ਅੰਡਜ ਜੇਰਜ ਉਤਭੁਜ, and ਸੇਤਜ)is not to be taken literal especially in regards to creation under ਸੇਤਜ as the presenter does in the video. How can life be created from mere heat and sweat? The concept or theory of spontaneous generation though accredited to Aristotle by the West was actually developed by Mannu.

This seems like missionary thinking. Who are you to claim that the 4 Khaanis should not be taken literally? Devout Sikhs of Guru Sahib believe in the Hukams of Gurbani more that even the testimony of their five senses. As an example if they testimony of the eyes were to say that the sky is Blue and if Gurbani mentioned some other colour, then a Gursikh would believe Gurbani and not his eyes. If Gurbani has mentioned 4 Khaanis, then there are four Khaanis.

Quote

To assume Gurbani accepts this pseudo scientific notion of insect beings born from thin air is taking Gurbani out of context. Insects come from tiny eggs which can be seen using microscopes. Gurbani does not speak of Science, it is far above Science. In regards to Science, life is created through the replication of cells. Whether life comes from the womb, eggs, or the dirt it ultimately comes from cells.

Gurbani says there are 4 Khaanis but you, using your pseudo and fake intelligence are asserting that there is only one Khaani (i.e. Khaani of cells). You are free to believe what you want to believe but don't claim it to be Gurmat. A Sikh can't go wrong by believing in Gurbani word by word, without contaminating it with his own intelligence but on the other hand, there is sure chance that your own pseudo intelligence that is superseding Gurbani here, is totally wrong. So have some fear. It's people like you who claim that there are no hells and heavens and Jamdoots etc. We don't subscribe to such missionary and atheistic thinking.

Quote

If we are to accept the theory of spontaneous generation just because Gurbani gives reference to it then we should also accept the notion of Christian creationism ( Adam and Eve myth) because Gurbani refers to this as well.
ਬਾਬਾ ਆਦਮ ਕਉ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਦਿਖਾਈ ॥ ਉਨਿ ਭੀ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਘਨੇਰੀ ਪਾਈ ॥੨॥

The above quote from Gurbani does not mention anything about Adam and Eve being the first human beings, nor it mentions that it believes in the Christian philosophy of creation. We don't believe in Adam and Eve theory.

Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh,

Gurbani is based in truth its not based on creation theories of Manu or other religions. Without jumping to name calling ( missionary, athiest) kindly explain where acceptance of 4 modes of creation is a hukum and not a hindu reference. Gurbani makes many references to Hindu mythology do you accept these myths. Are you Sikh of the Guru or a Hindu of Manu?

The above pangti mentions adam lived in paradise for very long. is this pangti referring to islamic literature or is it telling us to accept this made up story?

Sikhi is above the physical creation its not a good idea to enforce your religious interptetations or half baked scientific understanding through your own understanding and claiming it as gurbani. As i mentioned gurbani makes no mention of science nor does it attempt to explain sciebtific principles. I rightfully admit gurbani makes no claim about creation however you do. Since when did guru sahib care about physical creation.

Suthra Singh,

Quote

Gurbani is based in truth its not based on creation theories of Manu or other religions. Without jumping to name calling ( missionary, athiest) kindly explain where acceptance of 4 modes of creation is a hukum and not a hindu reference.

ਅੰਡਜ ਜੇਰਜ ਸੇਤਜ ਉਤਭੁਜਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਕਿਰਤਿ ॥

The above Pankiti clearly says "ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੀ" and not Manu ki. There are many Pankitis that talk about 4 Khaanis in this world. Where Guru Sahib did not agree with Vedic notions, it has clearly come out and rejected them e.g. Janeoo, Sootak etc. Guru Sahib has clearly mentioned 84 Lakh Joonis therefore, there are exactly that many joonis. Same way, Gurbani has accepted 4 Khaanis, therefore there are exactly 4 Khaanis in this world. Now it's your turn to prove that Guru Sahib jee has rejected 4 Khaanis. Give proof please. I have given proof from Gurbani above and can give many more Pankitis that mention 4 Khaanis. Can you give one Pankiti that says there are no Khaanis. Bear in mind that in His total creation there are many Khaanis but there are only four for this world of ours.

Quote

The above pangti mentions adam lived in paradise for very long. is this pangti referring to islamic literature or is it telling us to accept this made up story?

The above Pankitis says that Baba Adam enjoyed paradise for long time; therefore, he did enjoy paradise for the that time. What is the problem with this? There are many realms in Vaheguru's creation and Bhisht (paradise) is one of them. There is no problem in accepting that Baba Adam enjoyed paradise (an inferior realm as compared to Sachkhand).

Quote

Sikhi is above the physical creation its not a good idea to enforce your religious interptetations or half baked scientific understanding through your own understanding and claiming it as gurbani.

To accept Gurbani as truth and to accept notions mentioned in Gurbani as truth, is totally in accordance to Gurmat. On the other hand, rejecting Gurbani-mentioned notions as myth is pure Manmat, that you have done in this post.

Quote

I rightfully admit gurbani makes no claim about creation however you do. Since when did guru sahib care about physical creation.

It seems like your knowledge of Gurbani is very limited which is why you have written that Gurbani makes no claim about creation. There are many mentions about how this world was created. Try reading Maaru Solhe of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. You will find many mentions on how the world was created.

In the end, I don't understand what is it that you are trying to say. The video has just said that it's not possible for aliens to come to our world and you have accepted this in your first post. If you agree with us, then what are you arguing about? What have you found so wrong in the video? For us to accept the Gurbani Hukams as literal truths, is not a bad thing. What do you want Suthra Singh? And it would be more Khalsa-like if you did this Vichaar using your real name.

Kulbir Singh

Please provide one pangti in which Guru Sahib gives an explanation ( not reference) of the physical creation. Sri Japji Sahib makes it clear that the origins of creation cannot be fathomed. You or your interpretations are the only one making claims of physical creation and itd not a good idea unless you have a scuentific education its best not to mix religion and science as they are two different subjects all together. If we do, how is this any different then the fanatical christians who claim earth is the center of creation.

I make no claims of how jeev atmas come into this world . But if you are going to make claims of the natural world without any evidence then I am entitled to debunk these claims using my 5 senses/brain. how can a jeev atma take the body if something that has no family record ( DNA, genetic info) as spontaneous generarion suggests and you support?

Quote

Please provide one pangti in which Guru Sahib gives an explanation ( not reference) of the physical creation.

The Pankiti I quoted very clearly mentions that the 4 Khaanis are "Prabh ki Kirat". This proves that it's a fact. It does not matter what Andaj, Jeraj, Setaj and Utpaj means in detail. All we know is that Guru Sahib has mentioned these 4 Khaanis and have not rejected them as He rejected Sootak or Janeo or Teeraths etc.

Quote

Sri Japji Sahib makes it clear that the origins of creation cannot be fathomed.

Please read the 21st Pauri carefully again. It mentions that the time of origin cannot be fathomed. It does not say about the process because Guru Sahib jee has mentioned the process in Baani. Please refer to Maaru Solhe.

Quote

You or your interpretations are the only one making claims of physical creation and itd not a good idea unless you have a scuentific education its best not to mix religion and science as they are two different subjects all together.

We don't mix religion and science but if we see that Sikhs are being led astray by pseudo scientific theories that contradict Gurbani, then we surely have the right to make things clear. I don't understand what is your argument about. The video said nothing about scientific theories. It only said that people in other worlds exist but can't come to our world using scientific means. You too agree with this. What are you arguing about?

Quote

I make no claims of how jeev atmas come into this world . But if you are going to make claims of the natural world without any evidence then I am entitled to debunk these claims using my 5 senses/brain.

We made claim based on Gurbani. Gurbani mentions 4 Khaanis through which the Jeevs come to this world and it was perfectly fine and appropriate for us believe and preach that there are 4 Khaanis through which Jeevs can come to this world. You are entitled to use your senses and brain but we will use Gurbani. Your Dimaagh is mubaarik to you. We will rely on Guru Sahib jee's Amrit Baani.

Quote

how can a jeev atma take the body if something that has no family record ( DNA, genetic info) as spontaneous generarion suggests and you support?

Vaheguru jee's ways are mysterious and limitless. While Jeevs come through 4 Khaanis alone but this is the truth of physical world only. Through spiritual power no DNA or genetic info is required, to manifiest a body in this world. You tell me Mr Scientist, what DNA or genetic info did Narsingh use when he appeared to kill Harnaakash? Or do you believe this story is a myth?

Kindly answer the questions asked in the previous post:

Now it's your turn to prove that Guru Sahib jee has rejected 4 Khaanis. Give proof please. I have given proof from Gurbani above and can give many more Pankitis that mention 4 Khaanis. Can you give one Pankiti that says there are no Khaanis. Bear in mind that in His total creation there are many Khaanis but there are only four for this world of ours.

Kulbir Singh

No scientific theory ( good or bad) can prove Gurbani wrong because Gurbani makes no scientific claims about the natural world.You are the onky one making the claim that Gurbani makes such claims but still havent given one pangti which Guru Sahib explains the physical creation. The quote you mentioned merely states Karta Purakh is the creator of the different forms of creation spoken in vernacular (not in scientific language)

Manu is the one who said life can be created by heat and sweat and its still commonly accepted in India. This is a claim about the natural world which can be debunked using our 5 senses . Give me a microscope and I can prove these insects come from eggs and not sweat as Manu claims.

Gurbani is truth and when tested it always proves correct. Gurbani says jaap naam and you get bliss. You can test this truth. Now if you are claiming that gurbani adheres to spontaneous generation that demonstrate how lice can come from sweat. Again this is your or Manus claim not Gurbanis. Gurbani is above the physical. Nothing in Gurbani can be proven wrong using our 5 senses(brain) because Gurbani is above the 5 senses.

I hope you understand my point. I have no intentions for any arguments. I just think its not a good idea to say Gurbani is making or adhering to pseudo science or hindu views on creation. Science and Hindumat is way below Gurbani and can never and should never enter the arena of Gurmat spirituality. At least we can agree aliens have not come and cannot come.

Suthra Singh,

It's sad that you are not answering the questions asked repeatedly.

Quote

You are the onky one making the claim that Gurbani makes such claims but still havent given one pangti which Guru Sahib explains the physical creation. The quote you mentioned merely states Karta Purakh is the creator of the different forms of creation spoken in vernacular (not in scientific language)

Gurbani does make claims about nature and is full of it. Akal Purakh is the creater of Kudrat (nature) and therefore Guru Sahib jee's Baani is the most well positioned to make any statement about nature. Part of this is the claim that there are 4 Khaanis through which Jeevs are created. It's so wrong that you are repeatedly ignoring the mention of 4 Khaanis and are stubbornly asking that Gurbani should explain each Khaani or else you would not obey this Hukam. Is it not enough that Gurbani has again and again mentioned 4 Khaanis? Why are you dictating Gurbani by demanding that unless it explains each Khaani to you, you won't believe it. And furthermore you are demanding that since Gurbani does not speak in scientific language and since it speaks in vernacular, therefore, the claims of Gurbani are null and void. Kamaal hai! Guru Sahib Sumatt bakshan.

Quote

Manu is the one who said life can be created by heat and sweat and its still commonly accepted in India. This is a claim about the natural world which can be debunked using our 5 senses . Give me a microscope and I can prove these insects come from eggs and not sweat as Manu claims.

First of all we don't worry about what Manu says. Secondly, if certain insects are coming from eggs, then they are part of Andaj Khaani. Then perhaps Setaj is responsible for some other jeevs. It does not matter. All that matters is that there are 4 Khaanis of creation of Jeevs in this world.

Quote

I hope you understand my point. I have no intentions for any arguments. I just think its not a good idea to say Gurbani is making or adhering to pseudo science or hindu views on creation. Science and Hindumat is way below Gurbani and can never and should never enter the arena of Gurmat spirituality. At least we can agree aliens have not come and cannot come.

I still have not understood what was the purpose of your post. We did not say anything about scientific theories. All we said was that aliens can't come to this world through spaceships. You agree with this. Then what is the purpose of your post? We are yet to produce videos debunking scientific theories and then you can take up your crusade in favour of scientists but in this case it was unnecessary.

Kulbir Singh

Why are you dictating Gurbani by demanding that unless it explains each Khaani to you, you won't believe it. And furthermore you are demanding that since Gurbani does not speak in scientific language and since it speaks in vernacular, therefore, the claims of Gurbani are null and void. Kamaal hai! Guru Sahib Sumatt bakshan

Quote
kulbir singh

.

I am not dictating nor would never dictate Dhur ki Bani. But I am dictating and questioning your views of Gurbani especially since you are claiming Gurbani makes claims about physical creation. Next you will say Gurbani denies evolution even though Gurbani makes no reference to this scientific subject. Let us not make the same claims literalist Muslims and Christians make.

When I say Gurbani speaks in vernacular language not scientific language Im merely saying Gurbani does not speak in scientific terms when teaching a message of creation. Why would it speak in a scientific language in a non scientific age. Gurbani spoke in terms that people could fathom. It was generally accepted life can be created out of sweat even in some small villages in India people still accept these views.

The message was intented to glorify the creator not the creation in a language intelligble for the population. Gurbani does not give physical creation any special place in gurbani thus finds no use in discussing this worldly subject the way scientist and pseudo scientist like Manu do.

Quote

Gurbani spoke in terms that people could fathom. It was generally accepted life can be created out of sweat even in some small villages in India people still accept these views.

Gurbani speaks in vernacular but at the same time it does not speak falsehood. If there had been more Khaanis or if there had been an error in people's understanding, then Gurbani would not have accepted such notion e.g. Gurbani rejected other popular notions e.g. Teeraths, Janeu, fasting and sootak etc.

Quote

Gurbani does not give physical creation any special place in gurbani thus finds no use in discussing this worldly subject the way scientist and pseudo scientist like Manu do.

I don't know why you keep on referring to Manu as a scientist. He was a Vedic Rikhi and not a scientist. Please get your facts straight.

I am still clueless as to why you started off this topic when you clearly agreed with the main idea of the video i.e. that aliens can't come to our world.

Kulbir Singh

Topic closed since nothing new is being mentioned.

Admin