Proper dietary bibek of Khalsa must have SARBLOH!

Eating from the hands of non-smokers is the starting point of dietary bibek.
Eating from the hands of sikhs(sehajdharis + amritdharis) is next level of dietary bibek.
Eating from the hands of amritdharis only is next level of dietary bibek.
Eating from the hands of proper rehitvaan amritdharis is next level of dietary bibek.

But when we talk of PROPER dietary bibek, it cannot be achieved WITHOUT SARBLOH.

1. Sarbloh jee puts Naam in the food.
2. Sarbloh jee CLEANS the food.(for example boiling non-bibeki milk in Sarbloh jee makes that milk much much better)
3. Sarbloh jee saves us from JOOTH.

According to Gurbani,

Such hovai taan sach payiyai.

Dhan Dhan Sarbloh Jee
Raj Karega Khalsa

Khalistan Zindabad!

Quote

Eating from the hands of non-smokers is the starting point of dietary bibek.
Eating from the hands of sikhs(sehajdharis + amritdharis) is next level of dietary bibek.
Eating from the hands of amritdharis only is next level of dietary bibek.
Eating from the hands of proper rehitvaan amritdharis is next level of dietary bibek.

The above are man-made distinctions. According to Gurmat there is only one Rehit - eating from Tyaar bar Tyaar Gursikh.

Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eating from the hands of non-smokers is the
> starting point of dietary bibek.
> Eating from the hands of sikhs(sehajdharis +
> amritdharis) is next level of dietary bibek.
> Eating from the hands of amritdharis only is next
> level of dietary bibek.
> Eating from the hands of proper rehitvaan
> amritdharis is next level of dietary bibek.
>
>
> The above are man-made distinctions. According to
> Gurmat there is only one Rehit - eating from Tyaar
> bar Tyaar Gursikh.
>
> Kulbir Singh

Veer jeeeo
if a tyar bar tyar khalsa prepared food for you in plastic(plastic is evil)utensils, will u call it proper bibeki food ?

Quote

if a tyar bar tyar khalsa prepared food for you in plastic(plastic is evil)utensils, will u call it proper bibeki food ?

Bibek Rehat has to do more with the person who prepares it, rather than utensils in which it is prepared. To add to it, even preparing the Bibeki food full SUCHAM is a must so plastic will not be considered for cooking for that matter. Most of the bibekis who are not sarblohi yet use STEELE to cook. Its a must to mention that public microwaves etc must be avoided to warm the Bibeki food.

Quote

Veer jeeeo
if a tyar bar tyar khalsa prepared food for you in plastic(plastic is evil)utensils, will u call it proper bibeki food ?

I will not consider it Bibeki food. To begin with, a Tyaar bar Tyaar Khalsa will never prepare food in plastic.

Kulbir Singh

Quote
sikh.learner
if a tyar bar tyar khalsa prepared food for you in plastic(plastic is evil)utensils

Who on the earth can cook in plastic ? Bhai sikh.learner ji you need to start eating daily 10gms of Almonds soaked in mustard oil overnight with soanf.

jaskirat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > if a tyar bar tyar khalsa prepared food for you
> in plastic(plastic is evil)utensils
>
>
> Who on the earth can cook in plastic ? Bhai
> sikh.learner ji you need to start eating daily
> 10gms of Almonds soaked in mustard oil overnight
> with soanf.


I mean lots of people these days store newly cooked food in plastic which allows plastic to secret its ZEHARRRR into the food.
These days so much cooking is being done in aluminium. Aluminium is very very bad for health.
Can u explain about that almonds thing a bit more.

why Steel shud not be used for cooking food and ideally Sarboh Jee shud be used

1. Steel is a poor conductor of heat and as a result food cooked is not that tasty. Food cooked in Sarbloh Jee is very very tasty.

2. When we eat food cooked in Sarbloh Jee, only iron goes into our body. But when we eat food cooked in steel, iron as well as chromium goes into our body(if we use low grade steel, even nickel goes into the body.).

3. Swallowing of larger amounts of Chromium has caused stomach upsets and ulcers, convulsions, kidney and liver damage, and even death

Steel is much better than aluminium but it has some major shortcomings.

[www.happy-mothering.com]



1.Iron, chromium and nickel were all found to leach into both alkaline and acidic foods and beverages, while none of the metals leached into distilled water.
2.Leaching of iron, chromium and nickel was observed from both new and old utensils.
3.Leaching of iron occurred in all foods.
4.Leaching of nickel occurred in curd, fruit juice and pickle (more acid)
5.Leaching of chromium occurred in milk, coffee, and tea (only slightly acid)

If we store non-distilled water in Steel, chromium and nickel both leak through.
Sarbloh jee is the best and nuthing else can be compared to Sarbloh Jee.

Sarbloh jee dee sada rachiyaaa hamnai

1. Sarbloh Jee is the best and nuthing else can come near to Sarbloh Jee.

2.Mitti Utensils are also fine for cooking daal or saag. they do no harm.(u cannot use mitti utensils for eating as once they get joothe, jooth cannot be removed).

3. Tamba comes next. Its very useful to store water in Tamba.(Storing water in steel can be harmful)

4.After that comes steel.

Food cooked in any utensil below steel cannot be called bibeki food.

If u want proper bibeki food, then u have to go for sarbloh.
If u want that ur Khanda(Naam) shud vibrate like THUNDER, U have to take RACHAAA(Protection) of Sarbloh Jee.

Another major disadvantage of eating and storing in steel

[news.discovery.com]

stainless steel absorbs bacteria easily and if not properly cleaned, can harbor colonies of bacteria that lead to pathogens.

Why Tamba is much better than steel?

[www.vasantihealth.com]

Scientific studies have shown that copper removes bacteria and impurities from water due to what is called the ‘oligodynamic’ effect- the antimicrobial properties of certain metals.

"
-------------------------------------------------------
> Veer jeeeo
> if a tyar bar tyar khalsa prepared food for you in
> plastic(plastic is evil)utensils, will u call it
> proper bibeki food ?
>
> I will not consider it Bibeki food. To begin
> with, a Tyaar bar Tyaar Khalsa will never prepare
> food in plastic.
>
> Kulbir Singh"

Who is a Tyaar bar Tyaar Gursikh?

Nowadays, this concept is being defined using mere physical Rehits rather than the true, deep meaning of it, which is a combination of both physical Rehit and Naam Kamai.

Now what does physical Rehit refer to?

There are two types of physical Rehit, one of them is mandatory for all Khalsa to follow, and is also instructed in Amrit Sanchaars by Panj Pyare. Following Gurmat, the minimal physical Rehit to be kept is:

-5 Kakaars (Dastaar to be a must)
-Free from 4 Bujjer Kurehats
-Nitnem and Naam (Naam Simran + 5 Baniaa during Amritvela, Rehraas Sahib in the evening and Sohila Sahib before going to bed)

Depending on the Jathebandi, and depending upon Panj Pyare, the minimal physical Rehit may variate, always aiming to add more, never falling below the above mentioned. It must be clarified, that there have been and still are Gurmukhs out there who have done immense amount of Naam Kamaee, yet they kept minimal Rehit instructed by the Panj Pyare Sahibaan. Many of these Gurmukhs have reached the Abode and merged with Vaheguroo.

The second type of physical Rehit is the one that is either added by the Panj directly, or by the Abhilakhi himself/herself. This part of physical Rehit are kept for OURSELVES, to control OUR MIND, and restraining it from wandering, thus making it easy to immerse in Naam with each and every breath:

-Bibek Rehit (eating from Amritdharis only who keep minimal Rehit=tyaar bar tyaar; in any type of utensils).
-Bana (committing to wear Gurmukhi Bana instead of Western Clothes)
-Doing Ishnaan twice a day instead of once only (Amritvela and before Rehraas Sahib)
-Reading more Baani (Sukhmani Sahib, Asa Ki Vaar, Basant Ki Vaar etc)
-Sarbloh Bibek (various levels, all are equally pleasant to Maharaj, as long as the actual task is being accomplished -> restraining mind from wandering which would automatically allow us for more Naam Kamai).
-Wearing more Shashtars
-Wearing Double Dastaaraa, wearing a longer Dastaar.

Those were just some examples, the list can be endless, any discipline that keeps our mind from wandering and is in accordance with Gurmat can be considered in this second part. All these Rehits are not kept for Guru Sahib directly, eventually, if they help us in Japping Naam athai pehar, then only we can say Maharaj has accepted us and our efforts of keeping these physical Rehits.

There are many Gursikhs out there who label other fellow Gursikhs as Tyaar bar Tyaar or not, JUST considering their added physical Rehit of Sarbloh Bibek and wearing Bana 24/7. Even if these Gursikhs had amazing Jeevan, full of Naam Kamai, some of my brothers and sisters on this forum would still not consider them "Tyaar bar Tyaar", a humble request from daas, please do not be offended, my brothers and sisters are blindly just labelling, but the final decision is in the hands of Vaheguroo alone. If we were to look into how this labelling system works in this forum, it can clearly be said that it is all man-made ideology also.

What is the true meaning of Tyaar bar Tyaar?

It is when we keep our physical Rehit (minimal or added more) and we do Naam Kamai at the same time. Regardless of whether they keep any extra Rehit or not, they are still Tyaar bar Tyaar to fight with the Panj Chor. How hard or easy it will be for them to fight Panj Chor will depend on their past karam, Naam Kamai, any added Rehit and Kirpa.

My brother Kulbir Singh could have meant that Gursikhs who have more added Rehits such as Sarbloh Bibek along with more Naam Kamai, are MORE tyaar bar tyaar than those with minimal Rehit and not enough focus on Naam Kamai.

Note: Without Naam Kamai, all physical Rehit is of no use. Naam CAN outweigh any added physical Rehit (eg Sarbloh Bibek), not the minimal (wearing Panj Kakaar, that is a MUST) regardless of one's stage. There must be a balance between Naam Kamai and strictness level of your physical Rehit. Keeping very strict physical Rehits (eg that instructed in Tapoban Sahib) but not focusing on Naam Kamai as much, is of no use (does not lead us to increase in Naam Kamai our ultimate goal).

Let us all focus on our insides a little more than our outsides, and not be bothered with what type of physical Rehit the Gursikh next to us is keeping or how. Rehit is for ourselves, NOT TO SHOW OTHERS.

Quote

There are two types of physical Rehit, one of them is mandatory for all Khalsa to follow, and is also instructed in Amrit Sanchaars by Panj Pyare. Following Gurmat, the minimal physical Rehit to be kept is:

-5 Kakaars (Dastaar to be a must)
-Free from 4 Bujjer Kurehats
-Nitnem and Naam (Naam Simran + 5 Baniaa during Amritvela, Rehraas Sahib in the evening and Sohila Sahib before going to bed)

Depending on the Jathebandi, and depending upon Panj Pyare, the minimal physical Rehit may variate, always aiming to add more, never falling below the above mentioned. It must be clarified, that there have been and still are Gurmukhs out there who have done immense amount of Naam Kamaee, yet they kept minimal Rehit instructed by the Panj Pyare Sahibaan. Many of these Gurmukhs have reached the Abode and merged with Vaheguroo.

The second type of physical Rehit is the one that is either added by the Panj directly, or by the Abhilakhi himself/herself. This part of physical Rehit are kept for OURSELVES, to control OUR MIND, and restraining it from wandering, thus making it easy to immerse in Naam with each and every breath:

-Bibek Rehit (eating from Amritdharis only who keep minimal Rehit=tyaar bar tyaar; in any type of utensils).
-Bana (committing to wear Gurmukhi Bana instead of Western Clothes)
-Doing Ishnaan twice a day instead of once only (Amritvela and before Rehraas Sahib)
-Reading more Baani (Sukhmani Sahib, Asa Ki Vaar, Basant Ki Vaar etc)
-Sarbloh Bibek (various levels, all are equally pleasant to Maharaj, as long as the actual task is being accomplished -> restraining mind from wandering which would automatically allow us for more Naam Kamai).
-Wearing more Shashtars
-Wearing Double Dastaaraa, wearing a longer Dastaar.

Daasgupt jee, kindly let us know, what is the basis of your theory that Rehit is of two types - one is optional and the other is mandatory? I have not come across any Rehitnama or Baani that says that there are two types of Rehits.

And it seems like you are mixing up Khalsa Rehit of Siri Guru Dasmesh jee with inner Avastha. While reading more Baani on mandatory basis is not a must but such exception is not true for outer Rehit of Khalsa. You can't pick and choose the Rehit you like. All Rehit must be kept or at least a Gursikh should strive to keep all Rehit.

Kindly provide reference that there are two types of Rehits - mandatory and optional.

Kulbir Singh

DaasGupt jee I know what you are trying to say, but these distinctions are man made. Somewhere along the line 5 Kakkars, 4 Kureits and Nitnem became the "minimum" rehat. Now it seems to us that we should keep basic "minimum" just to qualify as Sikhs. Without Bibek rehat how can anyone be tyaar bar tyaar? What you are trying to say is that there have become two types of rehat now, the mandatory minimum and then additional rehat like Bibek and Bana. In reality, there is no additional rehat. We SHOULD keep all Rehat, but the reality is that we dont. We have compromised too much and have given up most of our rehat. Just because some Sikhs have stopped keeping rehat does not mean that rehat is now optional. Panth will only be fully in Chardi Kala when we are distinct from the entire world and that only comes with Bana rehat and Sarbloh Bibek. When the entire Panth Keeps Sarbloh Bibek then we will be truly powerful and unstoppable.

Of Course without Naam and Bani, everything is of no use. I think what you are trying to say is that these days unfortunately, many of our rehatvaan Gursikhs are lacking in qualities such as nimarta, pyaar, santokh etc. But that is the fault of the human, not of the Rehat.

I think Bhai Randhir Singh has clarified this very well in his books. He gives his reasoning for why he thinks so as well.

From Jail Chithian:
ਗੁਰੂ ਘਰ ਵਿਖੇ ਨਵਾਂ ਜਨਮ ਹੋਣ ਕਰਕੇ ਜਿਉਂ ਕੇ ਤਿਉਂ ਰਹਿਤ ਰਹਿਣੀ ਦੇ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਜੀ ਨਾਲ ਖਾਨ ਪਾਨ ਦੀ ਵਰਤੋਂ ਦਾ ਡੂਂਘਾ ਤੇ ਜਾਦੂ ਭਰਿਆ ਅਕਸ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਉੱਤੇ ਬੈਠ ਕੇ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ੍ਹ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ
(p. 26)
and his reason for doing this is written in Gurmat Bibek:
ਜਾ ਕੀ ਰਹਿਤ ਨ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਰੀਤ॥ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਭੋਜਨ ਖਾਇ ਕੈ ਬਿਸਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤ॥
ਵਾਲਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਦਸਦਾ ਹੇ ਕਿ ਜਿਸ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਦੇ ਨਾ ਧਾਰਨ ਕੀਤਿਆਂ (ਭਾਵ ਕੁਰਹਿਤੀਆਂ ਦਾ ਭੋਜਨ ਖਾ ਕੇ) ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਹੀ ਵਿਸਰ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਤਾਂ ਸਿਫਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਰੂਪੀ ਸਾਰ-ਬਿਬੇਕ ਵਿਖੇ ਭਲਾ ਕੀ ਤਤਪਰ ਹੋ ਸਕਣਾ ਸੀ।ਉਪਰ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣਿਆ ਰਹਿਤਨਾਮੇ ਦਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਏਸ ਗੱਲ ਦੀ ਸੋਝੀ ਕਰਾਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਕਿਸੇ ਸਿੱਖ ਦੀ ਰਹਿਤ ਬਹਿਤ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਜਾਣੇ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਬਗੈਰ ਬਿਬੇਕੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਨੂੰ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਹੱਥੋਂ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਭੋਜਨ ਛਕਣਾ, ਅਥਵਾ, ਉਸ ਦਾ ਸਜਾਇਆ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਭੋਜਨ ਛਕਣ ਯਾ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਟਾ ਅਭੇਦ ਕਰਨਾ ਬਿਬਰਜਤ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਇਕ ਸਚਿਆਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਦਾ ਇਸ ਬਿਧਿ ਬਰਜੇ ਰਹਿਣਾ ਬੜਾ ਉਤਮ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਕਰਮ ਹੈ। ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕਣ ਸਮੇਂ ਇਕ ਬਾਟੇ ਵਿਖੇ ਰਲ ਮਿਲ ਕੇ ਅਭੇਦ ਗੱਫੇ ਲਾਉਣ ਦੀ ਸੁਰੀਤ ਇਸ ਭੇਦ ਨੂੰ ਜਣਾਉਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸੁਲਝਾਉਂਦੀ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸਮਾਨ ਰਹਿਤ ਰਹਿਣੀ ਦੇ ਧਾਰਨੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ-ਧਾਰੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਸਹੋਦਰ ਸੁਨਹਿਰੀਏ ਵੀਰ ਹੀ ਪਰਸਪਰ ਨਿਰਸੰਦੇਹ ਖਾਨ ਪਾਨ ਦੀ ਅਭੇਦ ਵਰਤੋਂ ਰਖ ਸਕਦੇ ਹਨ। ਇਹੀ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਵਰਤੋਂ ਪ੍ਰਾਣਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਯੰਤ ਕਮਾਉਣ ਤੇ ਨਿਭਾਉਣ ਦਾ ਧੁਰਵਾ ਏਥੋਂ (ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਮਾਗਮ) ਤੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਝਦਾ ਹੈ। ਏਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਸਪੱਸ਼ਟ ਤੌਰ ਪਰ ਆਨਮਤੀਆ ਨਾਲ ਖਾਨ ਪਾਨ ਨਾ ਰਖਣ ਦਾ ਬਹੁ-ਮੁਲਾ ਹੁਕਮ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਹੈ।
(p. 215)

So Bhai Sahib has clarified that Guru Jee, in Amrit Sanchar tells us that a Gursikh should eat food made by someone with the same stadard of rehat as them (ਜਿਉਂ ਕੇ ਤਿਉਂ ਰਹਿਤ ਰਹਿਣੀ, ਸਮਾਨ ਰਹਿਤ ਰਹਿਣੀ ਦੇ ਧਾਰਨੀ). Someone without sarbloh rehat is not following the same standard of rehat as someone who does follow sarbloh rehat, as bhai sahib proves:
ਕੈਸੀ ਅਚਰਜ ਅਣਹੋਣੀ ਅਤੇ ਨਾਕਾਬਲਿ ਬਰਦਾਸ਼ਤ ਵਾਰਤਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਗੁੜ੍ਹਤੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦੀ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਵਿਚ ਮਿਲੇ, ਗਫੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭੋਜਨ ਦੇ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਵਿਖੇ ਦਿਤੇ ਜਾਣ ਅਤੇ ਕਰਦ ਭੇਟ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਭੁੰਚਣ ਯੋਗ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਦ ਨੂੰ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਭੋਜਨ ਕਰਕੇ, ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕੇ ਜਾਣ ਦੀ ਸਿਖਛਾ ਸਿਖਾਈ ਸ਼ਰਧਾਈ ਜਾਵੇ।… ਪਰੰਤੂ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਮੰਡਲ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਨਿਕਸਣ ਸਾਰ ਹੀ ਓਹੋ ਪਿਤਲ ਕਾਂਸੀ! ਕੀ ਏਹ ਐਨ ਐਸੀ ਘ੍ਰਿਣਾ ਯੋਗ ਗੱਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਜੈਸੇ ਕਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਦਾ ਬੁੱਤਾ ਪੂਰਿਆ ਅਤੇ ਏਹ ਬੁੱਤਾ ਪੂਰਾ ਕਰਨ ਸਮੇਂ ਕਛਹਿਰਾ ਸਜਾਈ ਰਖਿਆ, ਫੇਰ ਉਤਾਰ ਘਤਿਆ ਅਤੇ ਓਹੋ ਧੋਤੀ, ਤੰਬੀ, ਲੰਗੋਟੀ।

ਜੈਸੇ ਕਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਛਕਕੇ ਕਛਹਿਰੇ ਦੇ ਥਾਉਂ ਆਨਮਤੀ ਦੀ ਨਿਆਈ ਬਹੁੜ ਧੋਤੀਪੋਸ਼ ਹੋਣਾ ਗੁਰਸਿਖੀ ਦੀ ਖਾਲਸ ਰਹਿਤ ਰਹਿਣੀ ਨੂੰ ਲੀਕ ਲਾਉਣਾ ਹੈ ਤੈਸੀ ਹੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਧਾਰੀ ਹੋਕੇ ਅਤੇ ਓਤਪੋਤ ਪੂਰਨ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਬੀਰ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਬਣਕੇ ਬਾਹੁੜ ਕਾਂਸੀ ਪਿਤਲ ਆਦਿ ਆਨਮਤੀ ਰੀਤ ਗਹਿਕੇ, ਖਾਲਸਈ ਸੂਰਬੀਰਤਾ ਨੂੰ ਲਾਜ ਲਾਉਣਾ ਹੈ।
(p. 217)
So this is not a "man made ideology" at all. Bhai Sahib has proved it in his writing that it is a rehat that Guru Gobind Singh Jee himself has blessed us with. Just because a Singh won't eat food made by another Singh who is not following sarbloh rehat does not mean that he is looking down on, hating, or pointing fingers. I can't generalize, but I've noticed more of this looking down on, hating, and pointing of fingers directed at sarblohi singhs than the other way around. These accusations are baseless. It's possible to disagree with another Singh without looking down on them but it seems that whenever a someone supports sarbloh rehat in a disagreement, everyone observing jumps at the chance to say that he is treating the other Singh wrong. Disagreeing is not wrong.
And why is it automatically assumed that those who follow Sarbloh rehat do not focus on naam sirman enough? This is another baseless accusation. Besides, the solution is not that sarbloh rehat should be dropped. Those that are sarblohi but don't do enough simran should start doing simran. And those that are not sarblohi but do a lot of simran should start sarbloh rehat. Those that don't do simran or sarbloh rehat should start both. It is wrong to present sarbloh rehat as a distraction from simran.
The only situation where I suspect that naam kamai can cover for dhills in rehat is if someone can't do some rehat or doesn't even know about it. I don't think it's possible for naam to cover for dhills in rehat when those dhills are intentional. Let's face it. If you directly say no to a rehat like sarbloh rehat, you are saying to Guru Jee "No. I will not do what you say because I think I know better. My thinking (which is supposed to bow down to the Guru's thinking) says that I can just do simran to cover for this dhill." We need to do our best to follow all hukam and accept our error when we don't. We can't try to be cunning with Guru Jee by saying that we'll just do simran to cover for a dhill in rehat.
ਏ ਮਨ ਚੰਚਲਾ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
Daasgupt sahib, you have said things against Guru Sahib's rehat without giving your reasoning for saying them.
http://www.gurmatbibek.com/contents.php?id=523
I think it's a bit relevant to mention here that I am not doing sarbloh rehat yet. I know that it's wrong. I take full responsibility for this dhill and I will follow this rehat properly in the future. I just find it hard to stand by when other Singhs who do follow this rehat are falsely accused of looking down on others and making their rehat up.

The Rehit is Rehit. What is this meaning of Minimum Rehit and Maximum Rehit and Optional Rehit ?

Have you ever heard of colour called as "Light White Color" or "Dark White Color". White is just White. Can you make it More White or Less White ?

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At the moment I am feeling pity for sikh.learner ji. He was going through elements in Periodic Table one by one and suddenly his thread got hijacked. Lol !!!

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Hanji gsingh, that is what daas meant. This is the reality of Khalsa Path in today’s date, and we can not run away from it. We have to have the bigger picture in mind, can’t just ignore it.
And by no means daas meant to say that Sarbloh Bibek Rehit is not important, in fact gsingh ji said it perfectly, without it we can’t achieve KHALSA RAAJ. Daas and my brother too keep this Rehit, and wear Gurmukhi bana, with dashmesh pita ji’s kirpa. daas did Sangat of 3 gurmukhs in India, who taught daas and brother ji this: “Keeping Sarbloh Bibek is an equally important rehit that has been forgotten by more than half the panth, it will help anoyone big way in their spiritual Jeevan, but remember to not fall in the trap of ego, don’t forget to shower everyone around you with pyaar, your actions should show nimarta. Never look down upon those who do not keep this rehit, nor make statements like if they don’t keep it they won’t go any far in their spiritual Jeevan, after all who are we to make such decisions? All is in hands of that samrath pita ji.”
Ever since, daas has been working on nimarta and pyar, and same thing with my brother, it took him a while to take this step, but when he did not keep Sarbloh Bibek I used to love him even more than I do now, I did not separate myself from him, tried TO KEEP REHIT IN SUCH A WAY THAT NOBODY WOULD BE HURT by my actions.

sabhanaa man maanik thaahan mool machaa(n)gavaa |
The minds of all are like precious jewels; to harm them is not good at all.

jae tho pireeaa dhee sik hiaao n thaahae kehee dhaa |130|
If you desire your Beloved, then do not break anyone's heart. ||130||

Daas has found many good things to learn from this forum, it is an excellent uprala, but it is not right to say things like a person is “Kurehti’’ just because they do not follow the standards of Sarbloh Bibek of guruduara Tapoban Sahib. Not only it can hurt someone, but also is not good for the people who are saying it themselves.

Coming back to the topic, SinghAbb ji, daas would never dare say a word against Guru jis rehit, daas kisses the feet of those who keep strict sarbloh bibek yet they are so humble and filled with pyar, or atleast strive to do so. SinghABB ji, because you think that way, lets think this way for a moment, there ARE and HAVE BEEN brahmgianis without sarbloh rehit, can’t deny it, what about those souls? Out of the 3 gurmukhs daas did sangat in india, one of them was not sarblohi and this was his answer: “Whenever a sehajdhari promises and tells daas that he or she will start path from now onwards, I eat from their hands” he was like I cant say no to anyone. and if this is working for him then who are we to intervene? Guru ji will know better, we ought not to say a word to such soul and just keep doing what we do. The other 2 Sarblohis gurmukhs laughed and hugged this gurmukh, a pakka mittar of theirs, they do sangat together everyday, daas was in awe after seeing this.

Mere veer Kulbir Singh ji, references of rehitnamas or other texts is not necessary, go out veer and look at the panth with open eyes, this is where the panth is standing at, minimal rehit and extra rehit. Not every fact is stated in a book  Let’s take AKJ as an example, majority of amrit sanchars do not mention sarbloh bibek, but does that mean we turn our backs from them? No, we need to work things out in pyar. Not attending akj smagams and cutting ties IS NOT GOING TO HELP, we ourselves need to be full of those virtues mentioned by gsingh, then only those around us will get inspired and start changing – and there comes KHALSA RAAJ
And jaskirat ji, I did not mean to hijack this post hahhah, sorry ji, I guess after reading some of the posts that send messages of ego, daas hirdha got built with things and daas had to let it out, mafi ji.

My mistakes are countless, sangat and guru ji bakshanhaar han, kirpa kar ke bakhsh devo ji.

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Mere veer Kulbir Singh ji, references of rehitnamas or other texts is not necessary, go out veer and look at the panth with open eyes, this is where the panth is standing at, minimal rehit and extra rehit. Not every fact is stated in a book  Let’s take AKJ as an example, majority of amrit sanchars do not mention sarbloh bibek, but does that mean we turn our backs from them? No, we need to work things out in pyar. Not attending akj smagams and cutting ties IS NOT GOING TO HELP, we ourselves need to be full of those virtues mentioned by gsingh, then only those around us will get inspired and start changing – and there comes KHALSA RAAJ

The standards of Gurmat or of Khalsa Rehit can't be changed depending on the ground realities of Panth or based on what majority of Sikhs are doing. The primary duty of a Gursikh at personal level, is to worry about obeying Guru Sahib jee's Hukams and Sarbloh Bibek is one of the Rehit of Guru Dasmesh jee, along with basic 7 Baani Nitnem, keeping strict Amritvela, 5 Kakaars, avoiding 4 Bajjar Kurehits, Dasvandh, combing hair twice a day, Gurmukhi Baana etc. A Gursikh should not worry about whether the majority of Sikhs are keeping full Rehit or not. Even if the whole world was to shed or eschew Guru Sahib jee's Rehit, still Guru-fearing and Guru-loving Gursikh will try his or her best to keep full Rehit, as much as possible.

You are asking me to look at the Panth with my own eyes, pray tell me Veer, why should I look at other people? My duty as a Sikh is to obey Hukams of Guru Sahib, as much as I can. I am not a Baaniya who is going to do cost benefit analysis to see which Rehit I should keep and which I should not. The goal is to obtain place in the Charan-Kamal of Vaheguru jee and for that it's mandatory to try best to obey all Hukams of Guru Sahib.

You statement that references of Rehitnamas is not necessary is an absurd statement. Why should we not look at Rehitnamas and other old references? Since you put forward a new theory of two kinds of Rehit - one optional and one mandatory - we as Sikhs have the right to question you and ask you about the source and basis of your new theory and it's your duty to provide historical and scriptural reference to backup your new claims about Rehit.

I personally believe that your theory of two kinds of Rehit - one optional and one mandatory - is incorrect and actually a sin because if some gullible Sikh reads your theory and gets convinced that there are indeed two kinds of Rehit and in turn stops keeping full Rehit, it will result in you incurring a huge sin, for which you will be answerable and held accountable some day by Guru Sahib jee. So unless there is a strong basis for something either in old scriptures or in the form of statements by Mahapuraks like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, one should avoid releasing misleading statement lest they mislead gullible and aspiring Gursikhs.

It does not matter whether Sarbloh Bibek is mentioned in majority Amrit Sinchaars or not. What bearing does that have on my life? As far as I am concerned, I am convinced that Sarbloh Bibek and Baana is a mandatory Rehit of Guru Sahib and as such I ought to keep these Rehits along with other Rehits. Different people are have different sense of priorities, due to which they keep Rehit to their comfort. I don't have a problem with this and I don't look down at people who can't keep all Rehit but we do Parchaar of keeping full Khalsa Rehit. I don't understand what's wrong with doing so and what problem do you have with us trying to keep Sarbloh Rehit.

Kulbir Singh

The funny thing is how you are accusing me of making a new theory, which daas did not even, read again, I said this is the sad REALITY, and I never said that we should start following the majority did I? Read again Jee, I said, we should strive to inspire those around us through our Rehit AND along with that the virtues of Nimarta and Pyaar. I am not attacking on Sarbloh Bibek, why would I? When myself and family believe in full Rehit, all I am trying to say is that this Rehit should not increase our ego, it should decrease it and our actions should be showing Nimarta, Pyaar. Santokh, etc and as SinghAbb mentioned , the solution is not dropping Rehit but increase of Naam Kamai and Sangat. Charan kamal of Vaheguru are obtained if we are Charan dhoor of all beings made by Vaheguru

ਹੋਇਸਗਲਕੀਰੇਣੁਕਾਹਰਿਸੰਗਿਸਮਾਵਉ ॥
Become the dust of all men's feet, and so merge with the Lord.

ਦੂਖੁਨਦੇਈਕਿਸੈਜੀਅਪਤਿਸਿਉਘਰਿਜਾਵਉ ॥
Do not cause any being to suffer, and you shall go to your true home with honor.

ਪਤਿਤਪੁਨੀਤਕਰਤਾਪੁਰਖੁਨਾਨਕਸੁਣਾਵਉ ॥੧੭॥
Nanak speaks of the Purifier of sinners, the Creator, the Primal Being. ||17||


If by writing about what is going on in the Panth is a sin then I did commit it, I don't run away from it. may He keep blessing me with such budh that I can keep up with full Rehit and inspire those around me, that is a form of Parchaar too. When a Rehitvaan Gursikh sits in any kind of Sangat (in guru darbar) he she WILL INSPIRE others, but the problem is many of us stopped doing Sangat, we only like to associate with those of the same Rehit and prefer doing Sangat with them, how will change come then? (Both in ourselves and those around us).

ਫਰੀਦਾਜੇਤੂਅਕਲਿਲਤੀਫੁਕਾਲੇਲਿਖੁਨਲੇਖ ॥
Fareed, if you have a keen understanding, then do not write black marks against anyone else.

ਆਪਨੜੇਗਿਰੀਵਾਨਮਹਿਸਿਰੁਨੀਵਾਂਕਰਿਦੇਖੁ ॥੬॥
Look underneath your own collar instead. ||6||

Salok Baba Sheikh Farid

The point is we should not label those who may not keep the same standards oh Rehit we do but are still striving to keep Sarbloh Rehit, we should shower them with Pyaar, not call them Kurehtis or turn away from them, we should keep doing ardaasan so that we ourselves don't fall into trap of haume, (including Moorakhs like daas, I would be number one but still, I hope one day I can ideally keep Rehit in proper way) Rehitvaan Gursikhs don't get hated on as much if they're Naam Khanda strong and them virtues don't lack, people automatically get attracted to them, such souls are rare like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh Ji.

Daas will not continue at this point, guru ji knows what daas meant, some people understand what they want to understand, what can we do.

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The funny thing is how you are accusing me of making a new theory, which daas did not even, read again, I said this is the sad REALITY, and I never said that we should start following the majority did I?

I am not falsely accusing you of starting a new theory of two kinds of Rehit. You yourself in your original post clearly stated that there are two types of physical Rehits - mandatory and not mandatory. Please see below proof from your own writing:

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There are two types of physical Rehit, one of them is mandatory for all Khalsa to follow, and is also instructed in Amrit Sanchaars by Panj Pyare. Following Gurmat, the minimal physical Rehit to be kept is:

-5 Kakaars (Dastaar to be a must)
-Free from 4 Bujjer Kurehats
-Nitnem and Naam (Naam Simran + 5 Baniaa during Amritvela, Rehraas Sahib in the evening and Sohila Sahib before going to bed)

Depending on the Jathebandi, and depending upon Panj Pyare, the minimal physical Rehit may variate, always aiming to add more, never falling below the above mentioned. It must be clarified, that there have been and still are Gurmukhs out there who have done immense amount of Naam Kamaee, yet they kept minimal Rehit instructed by the Panj Pyare Sahibaan. Many of these Gurmukhs have reached the Abode and merged with Vaheguroo.

The second type of physical Rehit is the one that is either added by the Panj directly, or by the Abhilakhi himself/herself. This part of physical Rehit are kept for OURSELVES, to control OUR MIND, and restraining it from wandering, thus making it easy to immerse in Naam with each and every breath:

-Bibek Rehit (eating from Amritdharis only who keep minimal Rehit=tyaar bar tyaar; in any type of utensils).
-Bana (committing to wear Gurmukhi Bana instead of Western Clothes)
-Doing Ishnaan twice a day instead of once only (Amritvela and before Rehraas Sahib)
-Reading more Baani (Sukhmani Sahib, Asa Ki Vaar, Basant Ki Vaar etc)
-Sarbloh Bibek (various levels, all are equally pleasant to Maharaj, as long as the actual task is being accomplished -> restraining mind from wandering which would automatically allow us for more Naam Kamai).
-Wearing more Shashtars
-Wearing Double Dastaaraa, wearing a longer Dastaar.

In the light of above quote from your own writing, it's clear that you have introduced a new theory on Rehit. In response to this, I requested you to provide historical evidence but you said that there is no need to give any reference from Rehitnamas and that all I need to do is see with my own eyes as to what's going on and that even in majority Jatha Amrit Sinchaars, Sarbloh Rehit is not mentioned. Below is a quote from your writing to this extent.

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Mere veer Kulbir Singh ji, references of rehitnamas or other texts is not necessary, go out veer and look at the panth with open eyes, this is where the panth is standing at, minimal rehit and extra rehit. Not every fact is stated in a book  Let’s take AKJ as an example, majority of amrit sanchars do not mention sarbloh bibek

In the above quote you are asking me to go out and look at Panth with open eyes and see where Panth is standing at minimal level and what Rehit majority Amrit Sinchaars are giving out. Are you not implicitly saying that the minimum Rehit and the definition of Tyaar bar Tyaar should be based on what majority of Panth is doing? What else are you trying to say through the aforementioned quote?

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ਫਰੀਦਾਜੇਤੂਅਕਲਿਲਤੀਫੁਕਾਲੇਲਿਖੁਨਲੇਖ ॥
Fareed, if you have a keen understanding, then do not write black marks against anyone else.

ਆਪਨੜੇਗਿਰੀਵਾਨਮਹਿਸਿਰੁਨੀਵਾਂਕਰਿਦੇਖੁ ॥੬॥
Look underneath your own collar instead. ||6||

Salok Baba Sheikh Farid

Less or partial knowledge is sometimes more dangerous harmful than total ignorance. The above Salok of Baba Farid jee is not saying that we should change the standard of Rehit or that we should not consider the Rehit of a person before eating from that person. There is a difference between one person lacking some virtues or having some shortcomings and deliberate weakness in Rehit. Weakness in Rehit makes a person Bemukh to Guru Sahib jee's Hukams to the proportion one is weak in Rehit and deliberate violations in Rehit by people should not be ignored when eating from them.

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The point is we should not label those who may not keep the same standards oh Rehit we do but are still striving to keep Sarbloh Rehit, we should shower them with Pyaar, not call them Kurehtis or turn away from them, we should keep doing ardaasan so that we ourselves don't fall into trap of haume, (including Moorakhs like daas, I would be number one grinning smiley but still, I hope one day I can ideally keep Rehit in proper way) Rehitvaan Gursikhs don't get hated on as much if they're Naam Khanda strong and them virtues don't lack, people automatically get attracted to them, such souls are rare like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji, Bhai Sahib Jeevan Singh Ji.

I don't know why you got the impression that we don't love people who are unable to keep full Khalsa Rehit. Do you know us personally or have you personally witnessed us not loving people who are weak in Rehit? It seems like you have drawn conclusions based on third party inputs. We have several people in our circle who are not keeping full Rehit and they are accorded same love and affection that Gursikhs keeping Sarbloh Bibek are given. When we are sitting in Sangat, then no distinction is made as to who the person is and love is given to everyone who comes in Sangat. Other than that, outside of the Sangat too, everyone should be loved because everyone has Jyot of Vaheguru jee. So to hate someone or to not love someone means to not love Vaheguru jee.

Having said that, there is a difference between loving someone and being mindful of violations of Rehit by people because it's a requirement of Khalsa to give certain Seva only to those individuals who are Tyaar bar Tyaar in Rehit. At such instances, Khalsa ought to know who is weak in Rehit and who is striving to keep Rehit because only those individuals, who are Tyaar bar Tyaar in Rehit and don't make distinctions between so called optional and mandatory Rehits (i.e. don't do cherry picking of Rehit) are given certain Seva. As an example, one who does not keep Kakaars or does not give Daswandh or keep Bibek etc can't be given Seva of Punj Pyare or Langar etc., even though you may love such individuals to death. Loving someone does not mean that they should be allowed to do such Seva that is reserved for Tyaar bar Tyaar Khalsa, even if they violate Khalsa Rehit.

Guru Sahib jee knows the best.

Kulbir Singh

Sarbloh Bibek is definitely one of the rehits.

However I've only seen online posts by strict toronto singhs saying that bana 24/7 is a required rehit. Now will you kindly post a preference from authentic rehitname that this is a requirement. Even strict India singhs don't do prachaar of 24/7 bana as a must, so it's a new term I've heard in recent years. Has Bhai Randhir Singh written such a chapter that 24/7 bana is a must in the same way he has written about all other rehits (kesi ishnaaan, kakaars, sarbloh bibek etc) Strict India Singhs don't ask about a 24/7 bana. They judge your level of sarblohi rehit strictness level before allowing you sewa in their strict standard langars. You seem to have started a new standard in modern times.

But yes! They do say being present in bana in hazorri of Guru Granth Sahib ji and sangat is imporant, but don't say one who doesnt wear bana all the time is dhilla.
However there are many gursikhs in India and outside India who wear bana all the time naturally.

Please don't refer to any personal gursikhs you have done sangat with, in modern times, to try and prove this. Pratan Singhs don't say this. So one doesn't have the right to say 24/7 bana is a rehit without proof.
Like sukhmani sahib is really important and does one good, still it cannot be stated as a requirement.

You're talk is definitely different from pratan singhs and india strict singhs. Noone in india, including pratan, asks for 24/7 bana as a requirement for doing sewa of punj, degh, langar etc

Adding new requirements based on personal opinion is just as bad as lessening requirements.

It's important to be honest so I do hope you are being honest when you say you don't secretly discuss people's dhills.
We are not muslims where we can lie or twist the truth, in religious debates, just to win the argument.
It is also mandatory for waheguru-seeking sikhs to be trustworthy. This means if someone confides in you, keep it to yourself. If you learn of someone's mistakes keep it to yourself. Of course you don't include them in certain sewa until they sort out their dhills, but don't look down on them or spread it to ruin their reputation.

Vivek:

Sarbloh Bibek is definitely one of the rehits.

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However I've only seen online posts by strict toronto singhs saying that bana 24/7 is a required rehit. Now will you kindly post a preference from authentic rehitname that this is a requirement. Even strict India singhs don't do prachaar of 24/7 bana as a must, so it's a new term I've heard in recent years. Has Bhai Randhir Singh written such a chapter that 24/7 bana is a must in the same way he has written about all other rehits (kesi ishnaaan, kakaars, sarbloh bibek etc) Strict India Singhs don't ask about a 24/7 bana. They judge your level of sarblohi rehit strictness level before allowing you sewa in their strict standard langars. You seem to have started a new standard in modern times.

First of all, Sarblohi Gursikhs in Toronto don’t stop anyone from doing any Seva based on whether Baana is kept 24/7 or not. Baani, Baana, Seva and Simran are the four pillars of Gursikhi that ought to be kept by a Gursikh. There are references in Rehitnamas that give Hukam to wear only Blue or Yellow for clothes and only White for Kachhera. Since there was no concept of wearing pant-shirt, there are no direct references to English or Western dress but references to wearing only Blue and Yellow is an allusion to Gurmukhi Baana. Here are some references to wearing of Baana in one of the Rehitnama:

ਸੋ ਅਕਾਲੀ ਰੂਪ ਹੈ, ਨੀਲ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਧਹਿਰਾਇ। ਜਪੇ ਜਾਪ ਗੁਰਬਰ ਅਕਾਲ, ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਪਹਿਰਾਇ।
(So is Akali roop, who wears Blue clothes. Chant Jap and Jaap and wear Sarbloh (weapons).

ਕਛ ਸਵੇਤ ਅਰ ਨੀਲ ਪਟ ਜਪੁ ਅਰ ਜਾਪੁ ਉਚਾਰ।
(Kachhera should be White, clothes should be Blue and utter Jap and Jaap).

ਲੋਹ ਪਾਤ੍ਰ ਮੈਂ ਛਕੇ, ਨੀਲ ਪੀਤ ਧਾਰੇ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ।
(Eat in Sarbloh utensils, and wear Yellow or Blue clothes).

There are many other references that can be quoted from many Rehitnamas. In the above quotes, the first one clearly refers to the clothes of an Akali and give the Hukam that clothes of an Akali should be Blue. One can’t interpret the above quotes to mean that one can wear any clothes as long as they are Blue or Yellow because one can't be an Akali if one does not wear Baana. This is the reason why Nihung Singhs only wear Baana and this Hukam is given by Punj Pyaare at the time of Amrit Sinchaar.

Here is a quote from the writings of Bhai Sahib jee that clearly refers to prohibition of wearing Pant-shirt and non-Gursikhi clothes:

ਏਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਹੀ 'ਖਾਵੰਦਿਆ ਪੈਨੰਦਿਆ' ਪਦਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਹਰਗਿਜ਼ ਇਹ ਭਾਵ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਮਨ-ਬਾਂਛਤ ਭੱਖ ਅਭੱਖ ਖਾਣੇ ਖਾਂਦਾ ਫਿਰੇ ਅਤੇ ਹੋਛੇ ਭੜਕਵੇਂ ਪਹਿਰਾਵੇ ਪਹਿਨਦਾ ਫਿਰੇ; ਸਗੋਂ 'ਖਾਵੰਦਿਆ' ਪਦ ਤੋਂ ਸਪੱਸ਼ਟ ਭਾਵ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੀਕ ਖਾਣ ਯੋਗ ਖਾਣੇ ਖਾਏ ਅਤੇ ਭੱਖ ਅਭੱਖ ਰਸਾਂ ਕਸਾਂ ਵਾਲੇ ਖਾਣੇ ਖਾਣ ਵਿਚ ਖਚਤ ਨਾ ਹੋਵੇ। 'ਪੈਨੰਦਿਆ' ਪਦ ਤੋਂ ਗੁਰਮੁਖੀ ਬਾਣੇ ਵਾਲੇ ਬਸਤਰ ਪਹਿਨਣ ਤੋਂ ਹੈ, ਇਹ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਅਨਮਤੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਰੀਸੇ ਅਨਮਤੀ ਬਾਣੇ ਪਹਿਨਣ ਵਿਚ ਖੱਜਲ ਖੁਆਰ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਫਿਰੇ, ਜੈਸਾ ਕਿ ਅੱਜ ਕਲ ਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ ਨੌਜਵਾਨ ਸਿਖ, ਖ਼ਾਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਨੌਕਰੀ-ਪੇਸ਼ਾ ਸਿਖ ਜੈਂਟਲਮੈਨ ਦਾੜ੍ਹੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਰੜਦੇ ਹਨ, ਪਤਲੂਨਾਂ ਪੈਂਟਾਂ ਪਾਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ। (ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਗੌਰਵਤਾ, ਪੰਨਾ 197-198)

In the above quote from Bhai Sahib jee’s book Gurmat Gauravta, Bhai Sahib jee has clearly come out in favour of wearing only Gurmkhi Baana and avoiding Aanmati Baana. He has specially written against wearing Pants. Having said that, Bhai Sahib has written about pure Gurmat but also knew the limitations of modern Sikhs and as such many companions of Bhai Sahib jee used to wear Pants when working. Similarly Gursikhs in Toronto do Parchaar of wearing only Gurmukhi Baana and not wearing shameless Western clothes but don’t stop anyone from doing any Seva, if Gurmukhi Baana is not worn 24/7, as long as they wear Gurmukhi Baana while doing Seva.

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But yes! They do say being present in bana in hazorri of Guru Granth Sahib ji and sangat is imporant, but don't say one who doesnt wear bana all the time is dhilla.

Why not? The above quotes prove that Baana is a Rehit, therefore one who does not keep any Rehit is dhilla in that Rehit. Having said that, Gursikhs in Toronto don’t go around telling people they are dhillay but that does not mean that people should not be inspired to keep Rehit, including Sarbloh and Baana. Gursikhs in Toronto inspire others to wear Gurmukhi Baana and keep the Rehit of Baana. I don't understand what's wrong with doing so.

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Please don't refer to any personal gursikhs you have done sangat with, in modern times, to try and prove this. Pratan Singhs don't say this. So one doesn't have the right to say 24/7 bana is a rehit without proof.

I have not quoted “personal gursikhs” and I do have some idea as to which “personal gursikh” you seem to have an allergy but to satisfy you, I have quoted Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, who has clearly said that ones who wear Aanmati Baana (non Gursikhi Baana) suffer (ਖੱਜਲ ਖੁਆਰ) due to this violation of Rehit.

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You're talk is definitely different from pratan singhs and india strict singhs. Noone in india, including pratan, asks for 24/7 bana as a requirement for doing sewa of punj, degh, langar etc

As per the quotes quoted above, my talk is not different from Puraatan Singhs. Like Puraatan Gursikhs and taking lead from them, we ask and inspire people to take up Gurmukhi Baana 24/7 but don’t stop them from doing any Seva if they don’t keep this Rehit. Nihung Singhs do put stoppage on Seva if one does not wear Baana all the time and this is the correct thing to do, but here Gursikhs don’t impose this because it was not imposed by Puraatan Jatha Gursikhs.

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Adding new requirements based on personal opinion is just as bad as lessening requirements.

It has been proven through the Rehitnamas and Bhai Sahib’s quote that we have not added any new requirement based on our personal opinions; rendering your above accusation as false.

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It's important to be honest so I do hope you are being honest when you say you don't secretly discuss people's dhills.
We are not muslims where we can lie or twist the truth, in religious debates, just to win the argument.

You are getting personal now. If you want to get personal and if you want to ask personal questions, I may answer them if you disclose your real name and identity, so that I may understand the motive behind your questions. The issue here is not whether we discuss someone’s dhill secretly or not. To even bring up this, in this thread is absurd and illogical.

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It is also mandatory for waheguru-seeking sikhs to be trustworthy. This means if someone confides in you, keep it to yourself. If you learn of someone's mistakes keep it to yourself. Of course you don't include them in certain sewa until they sort out their dhills, but don't look down on them or spread it to ruin their reputation.

Again, you have deviated from the subject of the thread and are making some personal accusation based on hearsay. Please identify yourself and then ask personal questions. I totally agree that we should not look down on people who are weak in Rehit, and should not ruin their reputation. As mentioned before, many of our companions are weak in outer Rehit of Khalsa and they are never looked down or made to feel bad about it.

Kulbir Singh

"ਇਹ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਅਨਮਤੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਰੀਸੇ ਅਨਮਤੀ ਬਾਣੇ ਪਹਿਨਣ ਵਿਚ ਖੱਜਲ ਖੁਆਰ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਫਿਰੇ..."

Please do not misinterpret the meaning of the above. First of all, Bhai Sahib uses the word ਰੀਸ (copy), there are Gurmukhs out there that have to wear Western Clothes not out of ਿੲੱਿਛਅਾ (desire) but out of ਮਜਬੂਰੀ. Those Gurmukhs do not purposedly do ਰੀਸ of Western people, more like they have wear such clothes under certain circumstances (eg Police Officers, Army, or other jobs where wearing Bana can not be allowed). So there are exceptions in this Rehit, one who can, deffinetely should, but if circumstances do not allow then it is not against Gurmat to wear pant-shirt or uniform.

Secondly, the phrase ਖੱਜਲ ਖੁਆਰ does not necessarily mean suffering, I do not know why you are taking the word into such a negative meaning in this context, maybe because you desperately want to make it look like those who don't wear Bana suffer or will suffer. Well, this phrase only translates into wandering, eg when someone can't find an address, they are khajjal khuaar, meaning they wander around, can't get to their goal. Of course those who wear Western clothes out of ਰੀਸ (copy) and personal desire of the mind do wander around instead of walking the Path straight. But said so, daas mentioned "desire of mind", daas knows many Gurmukhs who wear Western Clothes to work because it is more convenient and safe, and they could be ABOVE THIS, meaning their Naam Khanda could be going on 24/7 and their Jeevan coming to such point where they do not fall trap of their mind's desires, they remain unaffected. Who is to call or judge such Gurmukh dhilla?

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁਖਾਣਾਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁਪੈਨਣਾਨਾਨਕਨਾਮੁਵਡਾਈਹੋਇ ॥੧॥

The Ambrosial Amrit is his food, and the Ambrosial Amrit is his clothes; O Nanak, through the Naam, the Name of the Lord, greatness is obtained. ||1||


Bana is another Rehit to control the mind, not just to "look" Akaali, that is another purpose of Bana, uniformity, it gives Khalsa a standard Uniform, why? So that we can keep our minds under control, so that looking at others ਅਨਮਤੀ ਬਾਣੇ our minds don't enter into vikaars. Since the later is not possible until Khalsa Raaj (surrounded by uniform Khalsa) or until (and for the times) we are in Sangat where everyone is in Bana, daas wears Bana for the first purpose mostly, to avoid falling prey to own mind's desire to wear ਅਨਮਤੀ ਬਾਣੇ myself, and does not judge those who do not as dhilla or weak in Rehit, what do I know about their inner Avastha or Pyar for Guru ji?

Finally another thing, it is so very inappropiate Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji, you telling Vista he/she has allergy with a specific Gurmukh in this context, it shows that you stating this purely out of your personal judgement/ or differences. I think all Vista was wanting to see is Rehitnaama and Gurbani references, because different Gurmukh souls can have different viewpoints, so not everyone wishes to rely on those entirely. Good to see Gurbani references and see what Guru Ji says about it.

Daas has really felt that Bana helped that control mind and it reminded daas of Naam and Bani in this Age of Kalyug. However, daas does not indulge in slander or labelling of those who do not. All we can do is inspire with Guru Kirpa.

ਕਬੀਰਸਭਤੇਹਮਬੁਰੇਹਮਤਜਿਭਲੋਸਭੁਕੋਇ ॥
Kabeer, I am the worst of all. Everyone else is good.

ਜਿਨਿਐਸਾਕਰਿਬੂਝਿਆਮੀਤੁਹਮਾਰਾਸੋਇ ॥੭॥
Whoever understands this is a friend of mine. ||7||

Vivek Jee,

I was trying not to post anything on this topic, because everything is already covered about rehit by Gursikhs on this forum. But one thing that does bother me and I am not pointing only at you but many other people is when they keep bringing up the topic of Sarblohis looking down upon other people. I don't know how anyone gets that idea in their mind that Gursikhs who are trying to keep rehit always look down upon other people..I remember when once my own Matajee thought I considered her untouchable when I stopped eating from her. I never gave her any hard time or considered her any less than anyone. But once when I sat down with her to talk things in a clear manner, she revealed that it was her own insecurity in not keeping full rehit and pyar for me that made her feel this way. She knew in her heart that my feelings for her never changed. Either you have not met Full Rehitvaan gursikhs, or have met people who have only judged. From my own personal experience with the Sangat in Toronto, even before I started to keep Rehit, I can say that all that I have ever received from sangat is pyar. There are many Singhs and Singhneeaa who come to keertan who don't keep rehit, but not once anyone has looked down upon them. A Gurmukh is the one who connects others with Guroo Sahib and Rehit, not the one who shuns them away. Please get this idea out of your mind that all that Sarblohi Singhs do is judge others. No one has time for that. There are much bigger things in Sikhee that these Gursikhs are going after than to just look down upon others..

It is unfortunate that because of the actions of a few, all sarblohis are getting a bad name of looking down on others and thinking of themselves as better. There are only a few like this, and that is a genuine concern. However, for the most part, people that say that sarblohis think of themselves as better than others are only saying this because of their own insecurity of not keeping rehat. If someone does not keep rehat then they want to make themselves feel better by either attacking the rehat and saying it is not a khalsa rehat or that it is not mandatory, or by saying that those that keep this rehat are full of ego. Recently, someone told me that they feel discouraged because of the actions of some rehatvaan Gursikhs, but I told this person, why are you looking at the actions of those few? Why not look at the hundreds of rehatvaan Gursikhs that are full of pyaar and nimarta? Why not look at those pyaare that give us chaa to jap more naam and read more bani? These are just excuses. The mind is very chalaak, sometimes we dont even realize what it is doing, and it isnt even our fault. But just have full faith in Guru Sahib and Guru Sahibs rehat, and Sarbloh and Bana are definitely rehats of Guru Sahib.

I used to be the same before, calling those that keep rehat as full of ego or bahmans, but dhan are those Gursikhs that can accept their own dhill of not keeping rehat and ask guru sahib to bless them with the rehat one day rather than attacking the rehat.

Before visiting this site I also use to believe there are two rehits, one mandatory and the other optional. This is what most amritdharis believe. Difficult Rehits like Daswandh, Bibek, Bana, Amritvela are seen as optional while easier Rehits like Ishnan, Nitnem, staying away from 4 krahits is seen as mandatory. I hope Guru Gobind Singh Jee does kirpa on me so that one day I will also upkeep the Rehit of Bana and get off the Ghulami of wearing Patloon

Kulbir Singh ji,

I'm sorry. Reading back my post, it looks like I was pointing a finger at you with my tone and perhaps sounded rude.

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First of all, Sarblohi Gursikhs in Toronto don’t stop anyone from doing any Seva based on whether Baana is kept 24/7 or not.

That was my mistake. The reason for my post was because I thought Toronto Singhs made 24/7 Bana a requirement for sewa where praatan singhs did not. This incorrect assumption is what inspired my post.

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Similarly Gursikhs in Toronto do Parchaar of wearing only Gurmukhi Baana and not wearing shameless Western clothes but don’t stop anyone from doing any Seva, if Gurmukhi Baana is not worn 24/7, as long as they wear Gurmukhi Baana while doing Seva.

Thank you for correcting my incorrect information. I also agree bana must be worn during seva. Nothing wrong with parchaar for us to strive to wear bana as much as we can. Many India gursikhs do this naturally though.

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I have not quoted “personal gursikhs” and I do have some idea as to which “personal gursikh” you seem to have an allergy

You took this quite personally. Any personal gursikhs after the era of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh (India and outside India)
It's unfair to not be allowed to disagree on a point with any gurmukh without calling it an allergy.

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As per the quotes quoted above, my talk is not different from Puraatan Singhs. Like Puraatan Gursikhs and taking lead from them, we ask and inspire people to take up Gurmukhi Baana 24/7 but don’t stop them from doing any Seva if they don’t keep this Rehit.

That's great to inspire and promote 24/7 bana, I mistakenly thought you had changed the system from pratan gurmukhs, but you have clarified that.
However your talk is at least a little different from Puratan Singhs. One example - Purtan Singhs lovingly used to say one should wear khanda on dastar if inner naam khanda is going on with full force. However you disagree with this. Not creating an argument on this particular point but please admit there is at least some difference in sochni.

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It's important to be honest so I do hope you are being honest when you say you don't secretly discuss people's dhills.
We are not muslims where we can lie or twist the truth, in religious debates, just to win the argument.


You are getting personal now. If you want to get personal and if you want to ask personal questions, I may answer them if you disclose your real name and identity, so that I may understand the motive behind your questions. The issue here is not whether we discuss someone’s dhill secretly or not. To even bring up this, in this thread is absurd and illogical.

I apologize for the tone here, but I just see it all the time online, where cleverness is introduced in a discussion to avoid defeat of the argument. I just wanted a straight up reply from you.

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It is also mandatory for waheguru-seeking sikhs to be trustworthy. This means if someone confides in you, keep it to yourself. If you learn of someone's mistakes keep it to yourself. Of course you don't include them in certain sewa until they sort out their dhills, but don't look down on them or spread it to ruin their reputation.


Again, you have deviated from the subject of the thread and are making some personal accusation based on hearsay. Please identify yourself and then ask personal questions. I totally agree that we should not look down on people who are weak in Rehit, and should not ruin their reputation. As mentioned before, many of our companions are weak in outer Rehit of Khalsa and they are never looked down or made to feel bad about it.

Now I still stand by what I said here. This was a general statement to some of the strict singhs of today who are guilty of the above. I'm sure you're very aware. There have been cases of violation of trust. Not pointing the finger at you directly here.


I asked for a quote from Bhai Sahib because I've read in Gurmat Bibek (don't have page number) that after amrit shak, Khalsaa japs naam with each breath and wears khalsa bana. In this case there would be two options only,
1- both 24/7 simran and bana are compulsory
2- both the above are not compulsory but khalsa should strive for it and Bhai Sahib has written that to inspire us to follow that

You have stated that 24/7 simran is not mandatory requirement. The point I wanted to make was that we can't pick and choose one.


Khima ji

Looking back at the posts made by "sikh.learner" on the forum, something makes me think that they have accomplished their goal by sparking this debate.

Bhul Chuk Maafi Ji

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I asked for a quote from Bhai Sahib because I've read in Gurmat Bibek (don't have page number) that after amrit shak, Khalsaa japs naam with each breath and wears khalsa bana. In this case there would be two options only,
1- both 24/7 simran and bana are compulsory
2- both the above are not compulsory but khalsa should strive for it and Bhai Sahib has written that to inspire us to follow that

You have stated that 24/7 simran is not mandatory requirement. The point I wanted to make was that we can't pick and choose one.

Please understand that Khalsa outer Rehit is mandatory. If a person does dhil in outer Rehit, then such person gets Tankhah i.e. if Kakaars get separated deliberately, one becomes a Tankhaiya but if one does not do 24 hours Simran, one does not become a Tankhaiya. This does not mean that this Hukam should not be obeyed. A Gursikh should strive to do 24 hour Simran but unless one gets the blessing of Ajappa Jaap, one can't do non-stop Simran. Till the Avastha of Ajapa Jaap, a Gursikh strives to do Simran all the day. In other words doing non stop Abhyaas is not in one's control but one should try one's best but to keep outer Rehit, as it is in one's control to keep Rehit and therefore, there is no excuse in not keeping this Rehit.

Baana is a Rehit and should be kept, just like other Rehits and that day will come when Baana will become as accepted as Rehit as Kakaars.

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However your talk is at least a little different from Puratan Singhs. One example - Purtan Singhs lovingly used to say one should wear khanda on dastar if inner naam khanda is going on with full force. However you disagree with this. Not creating an argument on this particular point but please admit there is at least some difference in sochni.

I don't agree with the above statement that Puraatan Singhs used to say that one should wear Khanda only if inner Naam Khanda is going on with full force. Were the Khanda-wearing Puraatan Gursikhs advertising their inner Naam Abhyaasi Avastha by wearing Khanda on Dastaar? Definitely not! Khanda and Chakkar is worn on the Dastaar because it's the Hukam of Guru Sahib to wear Shasters on Dastaar. For this reason, we lovingly encourage Rehitvaan Gursikhs to wear Khanda and Chakkar on their Dastaar but if someone does not wear them, they are not penalized or forced to wear them. Many Toronto Sarblohi Gursikhs don't wear Khanda and Chakkar, and no one looks down on them for not doing so.


Kulbir Singh

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ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁਖਾਣਾਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁਪੈਨਣਾਨਾਨਕਨਾਮੁਵਡਾਈਹੋਇ ॥੧॥

The Ambrosial Amrit is his food, and the Ambrosial Amrit is his clothes; O Nanak, through the Naam, the Name of the Lord, greatness is obtained. ||1||

The food of a Gursikh becomes Amrit because it's the food of Bibek and one of the main requirement of Bibek food is, firstly it's prepared while doing Gurbani Paath or Naam Abhyaas and secondly by a Tyaar bar Tyaar Gursikh. Similarly, the attire of a Gursikh is Amrit because it's Gurmukhi Baana and the requirement of Gurmukhi Baana is firstly to do lots of Gurbani Paath and Simran and secondly to wear Gurmukhi Baana of acceptable Gurmkhi colours. Shameless Western clothes can't qualify as ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁਪੈਨਣਾ.

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"ਇਹ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਅਨਮਤੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਰੀਸੇ ਅਨਮਤੀ ਬਾਣੇ ਪਹਿਨਣ ਵਿਚ ਖੱਜਲ ਖੁਆਰ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਫਿਰੇ..."

Please do not misinterpret the meaning of the above. First of all, Bhai Sahib uses the word ਰੀਸ (copy), there are Gurmukhs out there that have to wear Western Clothes not out of ਿੲੱਿਛਅਾ (desire) but out of ਮਜਬੂਰੀ. Those Gurmukhs do not purposedly do ਰੀਸ of Western people, more like they have wear such clothes under certain circumstances (eg Police Officers, Army, or other jobs where wearing Bana can not be allowed). So there are exceptions in this Rehit, one who can, deffinetely should, but if circumstances do not allow then it is not against Gurmat to wear pant-shirt or uniform.

How does this prove that there are exceptions to Baana Rehit? If a Gursikh has to shed Gurmukhi Baana out of Majboor, then such Gursikh will accept it as his or her dhil and not go around arguing with people that no dhil has occurred. This is like those people who can't keep Sarbloh Bibek and then go around preaching against Sarbloh Rehit instead of humbly accepting their own weakness. The ones who have to shed Baana out of some personal problem but accept it as their weakness, seek forgiveness for their dhil from Guru Sahib every time they have to wear foreign clothes and supplicate before Guru Sahib for Kirpa to wear Gurmukhi Baana, end up getting this Daat from Guru Sahib. On the other hand, Hankaari (egoistic) people who don't keep this Rehit (or any other Rehit) and also insist that they have done no dhil, never get this Daat from Guru Sahib and spend (suffer, waste) all their life wearing shameless Western clothes, that have no Purdaah of body and expose the private parts of the one who wears them. Then these people become so accustomed and desensitive to wearing these shameless clothes, that they even go to Gurdwara Sahib, in front of Guru Sahib jee and Sangat, wearing these clothes. May Guru Sahib bless us with the Daat of Rehit.

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Secondly, the phrase ਖੱਜਲ ਖੁਆਰ does not necessarily mean suffering, I do not know why you are taking the word into such a negative meaning in this context,

It may not mean suffering directly but when one gets ਖੱਜਲ ਖੁਆਰ, one suffers. Suffering is involved when one gets ਖੱਜਲ ਖੁਆਰ. Why did you ignore the very specific reference to pant by Bhai Sahib jee? I understand that if someone has to wear Pant out of majboori, then we should sympathize with that person but that person should not insist that he has done no wrong. If one is humble after shedding one Rehit and asks for forgiveness, then one gets Kirpa but if one acts as if one has done nothing wrong and even refuses to accept it as Rehit, despite writings of Mahapurakhs like Bhai Sahib jee, then all we can do is pray for that person.

Kulbir Singh