Bibek and Brahmanwad

What is the difference between dietary bibek in Sikhi and brahmanical discrimination? My mother says that singhs who don't eat from non amritdharees are doing brahmanwad because brahmans too do not eat from other castes. She says that guru has condemned this.

could someone shed light on why gurmat dietary bibek is not brahmanwad?

i have a very simple answer for this.

brahmins believe that you must be born a brahmin. they believe that every person is born to a certain caste, and that cannot change through your whole life.

however, anyone can become Sikh. anyone can take amrit, follow khalsa rehet, and practice bibek.

so it's not really the same at all, is it?

Here is a Shabad from Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji in support of Dietory Bibek .

ਵੇਦੀਨਾ ਕੀ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਵੇਦੀਨਾ ਕਾ ਖਾਣੁ ॥
make friendships with the unrighteous, and eat with the unrighteous.

ਸਿਫਤੀ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣਨੀ ਸਦਾ ਵਸੈ ਸੈਤਾਨੁ ॥
They do not know the value of the Lord's Praises, and Satan is always with them.


Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

It really is not an analogous situation at all.

Gursikhs must keep suchum. Manmukhs know nothing about suchum.

In addition, it matters who we eat from. Eating from a Gursikh - a beloved of the Guru, brings spiritual nourishment. Eating from a Manmukh is spiritually draining.

It might not be easy to recognize this immediately - but it will become apparent inevitably.

santhan kaa dhaanaa rookhaa so sarab nidhhaan ||
The dry bread of the Saints is equal to all treasures.

grihi saakath shhatheeh prakaar thae bikhoo samaan ||2||
The thirty-six tasty dishes of the faithless cynic, are just like poison. ||2||

(Bilaaval Mehla 5 - Ang 811)

All spiritually elevated Gursikhs have kept some level of dietary Bibek. They didn't just eat from anyone.

The Similarity is that both Gurmat Bibek and Brahmanvad teaches us to discriminate but there is a major difference as well. Gurmat Bibek teaches us to discriminate based on one’s Karma whereas Brahmanvad that we know today preaches discrimination based on birth. Brahmanvad preaches that one is supreme merely because one is born in the family of Brahmans but Gurmat on the other hand preaches that irrespective of one’s family or racial background, one can rise or become holy and pure because of one’s Karma. Gurmat gives no importance to the family background. Gurmat preaches that one is good or bad only because of one's Karma and not because of one's family background.

Brahmans don’t eat from the hands of people of so called low castes because they believe that Brahmans are superior to the people of other castes whereas the Gurmat Bibeki on the other hand considers himself to be the dust of everyone’s feet. He keeps dietary Bibek not because he considers himself to be superior to others but because he is obeying the hukam (order) of the Guru.

It is the order of our Guru Sahib to associate only with Gurmat devotees and to avoid bad company. Bad company is defined as the company of such persons who are averse to Gurmat path of attaining Vaheguru. Gurmat preaches that one becomes what one’s company is. By associating with Gurmukhs, one gets inclined towards Gurmat and by associating with Manmukhs, one gets manmukhi tendencies.

It is next to impossible to become a Brahman unless one is born into a Brahman family. There is a way to become a Brahman even if one is born into a non-Brahman family but the path is very difficult to achieve. I can think of only two examples where a person was allowed to change his caste. One is Vishwamitra who was born as a Kshatriya but by following years and years of ascetic penances, he was finally accepted as a Brahm-Rishi and a Brahman. This incident occurred thousands of years ago. The most recent example of a person changing his caste is that of Shivaji Maratha who was born in a so called low caste but due to his hard work and good fortune became the ruler of his area. He wanted to be declared a Chatrapati (king) by the religious leaders but none of the religious leaders – the Brahmins - were willing to coronate him a king because he was born into a low caste family. After much effort he found some Brahmins from Kashi who using some clauses from the Hindu scriptures were able to coronate him a Chatrapati and this way changed his caste to that of a Kshatriya.

Now look at Gurmat. Gurmat is so great that anyone, irrespective of caste or race, can become a Khalsa. The conditions are same for Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vashyas, Shudras, Muslims or whoever. Anyone who is willing to offer his head to the Satguru, can become a Khalsa. Once one is accepted as a Khalsa by Guru Sahib and is given Khande Pahul (Amrit), one becomes equal in status to all other Khalsa brothers and sisters. Two Khalsas, one from a Brahmin background and one from Shudra background hold equal status in the Khalsa Order. One gets a higher status only based on one’s Karma and not based on one’s birth. This is the difference between Gurmat and Brahmanism.

ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪੈ ਉਧਰੈ ਸੋ ਕਲਿ ਮਹਿ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਾਝਾ ॥੪॥੩॥੫੦॥
(The teaching of Naam is same for all four Varna namely Khatriya, Brahman, Shudra and Vaish. Whoever chants the Gurmukh Naam (the Naam of the house of the Guru) in Kalyuga, gets delivered; the Lord resides in the inside of all people)

I can't help but quote the previous two pankitis of this shabad. The pankitis are not related to the topic we are discussing but they are extremely lesson-giving and eye-opening:

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਭਿ ਸਾਸਤ ਇਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਪੜਿਆ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ ਏਕੁ ਅਖਰੁ ਜੋ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਪੈ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸੋਈ ॥੩॥
(One cannot get salvation reading the Vedas, Katebas ( the 4 holy books of Semetic religions - Quran, Bible, Torah etc.) but one who chants the one indestructible (A-khar, without destruction) Naam through Gurmat (Gurmukh) because extremely praiseworthy).


At my workplace, many years ago, two Brahmins were my co-workers. Once, I went to the kitchen to get water and I saw them standing there ahead of me. After they used the tap, I washed the tap with soap before using it. Normally, when I wash the tap, I try to do it when no one is watching but that day I washed it in front of them. They got upset and remarked, “Arey tum apne aap ko hum se bhee baRa samajhte ho? Tum jante nahi ke hum Brahmin hain?” (You consider yourself superior than us? Don’t you know that we are Brahmins?)

I sensed haume (pride) in them and in order to break it, answered back in similar tone, “Aray Brahmin baRe honge aap ke Maharashtra mein. Hamare Punjab mein to Brahmin log, hamaare gharo mein rotiyaan banaate hain.” (Brahmins may be superior in your province of Maharashtra. In Punjab, Brahmins can be seen making rotis at our houses(in houses of normal Punjabi farmer households) during marriages and other big events)

Indeed this is true. The status of Brahmins in Punjab is not as high as other provinces where Brahmins were worshipped. This is all because of influence of Gurmat in Punjab. Still there is an effect of caste system lingering in Sikh Punjabi households but it is nearly not as bad as it is in other non-Sikh provinces of India.

Anyway, coming back to the topic, we must realize that we must follow Gurmat. If there is a similarity between a certain principle of Gurmat and Islam or Hinduism, it does not mean we should reject such Hukam of Guru Sahib. Sikhi preaches good moral character and if some other religion too preaches such character, it does not mean that we should become all defensive. If there is a similarity between a certain Gurmat Hukam and Brahmanical principle or Islamic principle, we don't need to discredit such Hukam of Guru Sahib.

Kulbir Singh

Bahmans have had it their way for too long. Time for them to give way to equality. Sikhi is the platform that can provide this much needed equality to the mankind.

If this is a Bahaminized practice then why did Guru Ji refuse to eat from any of his family members unless they took Amrit including Mata JI. Plus there are historical rehatnamas in which GUru Ji says to only eat from practicing SIkhs

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sangat Jee, based on the inputs above; I try to gather something.

Kulbir Singh Veer Ji at the end of his post; points out that it is not justified to say good bye to a good thing of Gurmat if we find a mention of it in other religions. Guru Sahib in Gurbani give definitions of a true Brahmin or a Muslim. So, when a Khalsa follows those Hukams of Guru Ji; he reaches those standards of a Brahmin or a Mulla unknowingly and automatically.------------------------Brahmin in its honest quest of God did come up with the theory of Choice or Bibek based actions. For him; food sources or different preparations or persons preparing food were a matter of concern or consideration. For others it was not of any relevance. That is why; people started calling these Bibek based considerations as Brahminism. There is nothing wrong in it. If a real Brahmin concept finds parrallel in Gurmat; people will certainly call us Brahmin. Health Sciences also supports us for certain activities called Bibek or Brahminism.

But, as mentioned in above posts; we do not disriminate based on any casteism; we do it based on their actions. Ultimately "thoughts and actions" of a person make him/her worthy of our company or Sangat. This is one major difference.

How Bibek is different from Brahminism:

Actually, when we are trying to explain that; it is certainly not true Brahminism. It is failed or corrupted Brahminsim; which is popular in general and comes under the category of BIPRIN KI REET. It is the Brahminism, which is misguided and takes a person away from the path of God. It finds solace in rituals devoid of any personal love of God or His Kudrat (nature) or His creations.It is the path; which is miles and miles away from the path of Guru Nanak Sahib. (Though the simple actions of Sharda or love bring Brahimins under the category of nice ones of the type of Sudama, the friend of Krishna) This BIPRIN Ki REET is cruel and inhuman. It treats animals as Gods but humans as animals. (We know a lot about it and suffered a lot from that too.) It will not allow, low caste to enter their homes or places of worship.---------------But with passing of time; they have changed a lot. This type of "Failed or unreal Brahmins" are also rare. Their modern educated children find nothing wrong in sharing things apparently with low castes.

Anyway; the irony of the situation is that; Gurmat Bibek is being followed by some of the sikhs only. Not by non-sikhs; but by sikhs themselves; they are termed as Brahmins among Sikhs.

Now; my brothers and sisters; it is your duty to follow the path of the Guru in a way that it should not be Brahminism; (though it may look like Brahminism). We must know that all Amrtdhari sikhs are on the Path of Guru. They belong to your Guru. At least they; do deserve your attention. Do not get isolated; to be forced to live a life of superiority. Please do interact.

And if we fail to see tender feelings, innocent motives, affectionate activities; honest love and emotional outbursts in our brothers and sisters and mother and father around; they are correct if they call us Brahmins.

good post mb singh ji. it is pseudo brahminism that is condemned.

there are good things in brahminism too. but as kulbir singh pointed out, there are serious differences between gurmat bibaik and brahminism.

MB Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
>
> Sangat Jee, based on the inputs above; I try to
> gather something.
>
> Kulbir Singh Veer Ji at the end of his post;
> points out that it is not justified to say good
> bye to a good thing of Gurmat if we find a mention
> of it in other religions. Guru Sahib in Gurbani
> give definitions of a true Brahmin or a Muslim.
> So, when a Khalsa follows those Hukams of Guru Ji;
> he reaches those standards of a Brahmin or a Mulla
> unknowingly and
> automatically.------------------------Brahmin in
> its honest quest of God did come up with the
> theory of Choice or Bibek based actions. For him;
> food sources or different preparations or persons
> preparing food were a matter of concern or
> consideration. For others it was not of any
> relevance. That is why; people started calling
> these Bibek based considerations as Brahminism.
> There is nothing wrong in it. If a real Brahmin
> concept finds parrallel in Gurmat; people will
> certainly call us Brahmin. Health Sciences also
> supports us for certain activities called Bibek or
> Brahminism.
>
> But, as mentioned in above posts; we do not
> disriminate based on any casteism; we do it based
> on their actions. Ultimately "thoughts and
> actions" of a person make him/her worthy of our
> company or Sangat. This is one major difference.
>
> How Bibek is different from Brahminism:
>
> Actually, when we are trying to explain that; it
> is certainly not true Brahminism. It is failed or
> corrupted Brahminsim; which is popular in general
> and comes under the category of BIPRIN KI REET. It
> is the Brahminism, which is misguided and takes a
> person away from the path of God. It finds solace
> in rituals devoid of any personal love of God or
> His Kudrat (nature) or His creations.It is the
> path; which is miles and miles away from the path
> of Guru Nanak Sahib. (Though the simple actions of
> Sharda or love bring Brahimins under the category
> of nice ones of the type of Sudama, the friend of
> Krishna) This BIPRIN Ki REET is cruel and inhuman.
> It treats animals as Gods but humans as animals.
> (We know a lot about it and suffered a lot from
> that too.) It will not allow, low caste to enter
> their homes or places of
> worship.---------------But with passing of time;
> they have changed a lot. This type of "Failed or
> unreal Brahmins" are also rare. Their modern
> educated children find nothing wrong in sharing
> things apparently with low castes.
>
> Anyway; the irony of the situation is that; Gurmat
> Bibek is being followed by some of the sikhs only.
> Not by non-sikhs; but by sikhs themselves; they
> are termed as Brahmins among Sikhs.
>
> Now; my brothers and sisters; it is your duty to
> follow the path of the Guru in a way that it
> should not be Brahminism; (though it may look like
> Brahminism). We must know that all Amrtdhari sikhs
> are on the Path of Guru. They belong to your Guru.
> At least they; do deserve your attention. Do not
> get isolated; to be forced to live a life of
> superiority. Please do interact.
>
> And if we fail to see tender feelings, innocent
> motives, affectionate activities; honest love and
> emotional outbursts in our brothers and sisters
> and mother and father around; they are correct if
> they call us Brahmins.


After reading this post it appears that there is a thin line between Brahanism and Bibek in which many Sikhs often confuse the two. For me Bibek is to eat food that has been blessed and made according to the GUrus teachings it has less to do with cleansiness.

While for Bahamans the main emphasis on cleansiness. I see no point in washing a water tap after someone else has used it that to me is acting like a Bahaman, nor do I have a problem with shaking anyones hands as long as they are not smoking or have just smoked. It appears people are trying to incorporate Hindu cultural practices into Gurmat Bibek. We are getting to much into rituals by doing such things. In Sukhmani Sahib Guru ji mentions we should make efforts to do internal cleaning. That place which Naam exist is the purest. I see no reason to emphasize to much on external cleaning.

When Guru Harkrishan Sahib Ji was in Delhi he helped those that had leporsy which couldnt be considered as a hygenic practice. Yet Guru Sahib went out of his way to help these people even at the cost of his own life. BHai Fauja SIngh Ji use to pick up feces around the Gurdwara . Bhagat Puran SIngh Ji also did the same thing , he also too care of people and lived with people who did not have high standards of cleansiness. Yet to me they are true Khalsa . Those who wore pure on the outside and inside. Unlike the Bahamas who like to wear their loincloth on the outiside and fool people of their nobility, these Khalsa Singhs did not wear the Khalsa Uniform on the outside as a show they lived up to the ideals of Khalsa and thus they were true inside and true to their roop on the outside.

jugath dhhothee surath choukaa thilak karanee hoe
bhaao bhojan naanakaa viralaa th koee koe ||1||