Showing Respect to Sangat March 01, 2014 10:41PM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 02, 2014 12:23PM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 02, 2014 12:57PM |
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Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 04, 2014 11:52AM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 05, 2014 06:46AM |
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Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 05, 2014 01:36PM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 07, 2014 07:18PM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 08, 2014 02:32AM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 09, 2014 10:41PM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 10, 2014 11:06AM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 11, 2014 01:36PM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 11, 2014 05:34PM |
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I am not sure how you came to think this is a new age Maryada, but this has been happening since Guru Sahib's time. The Degh that is taken out for Panj Pyare is actually partaken of by the original Panj Pyare in Sachkhand, the same way Guru Sahib partakes of Degh when Bhog is done with Kirpan. Therefore the Gursikhs who are given the first 5 Guphay of Degh are not getting Degh for themselves but are getting Degh for Panj Pyare.
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Please give a reference for Kiney Parshaad. As per writings of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, Gursikhs in the past would give out very large Guphay of Degh and eating lots of Degh is a sign of a Shud Atma. The example of Bhai Nand Singh is one that comes to mind where unending Guphay of Degh were given out and Bhai Nand Singh gave Asheervaad to Bhai Sahib's Jatha.
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 12, 2014 07:35PM |
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Preetam Singh Jeeo,. why are you under the impression this is a puratan maryada. Can you quote any puratan maryada or sakhi to back up this claim? Some times many people claim they are following a puratan maryada but they never provide any solid evidence to back up their claims
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Refer to Gurmat Sudhakar ( BHai Kahn SIngh Nabha) he mentions in puratan times Deg was referred to as Kinkey Parshad. ALso there are numerous sakhis which illustrate SInghs were content in taking small degh.
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Nobody is denying there are blessings with deg, but its strange to say the more deg when eats the more kirpa or more pure their atma there atma becomes. If this is the case lets all just eat degh and no need for Naam Abhyiaas. Also, why do you assume Sri GUru Ji is doing bhog of Degh. He is doing parvan of Degh. BHai Sahib Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji mentions it is manmat to offer eatables to SRi Guru Granth Sahib Ji ( Gurmat Parkash). Bhai Kahn SIngh Ji also says its manmat to say kirpan is the mouth of SRi Guru Ji.
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 12, 2014 09:22PM |
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It is very saddening that you are also starting to adhere to the Kala Afghana thinking that Guru Sahib does not do Bhog to Degh. You are making an issue out of this for no reason.
There are so many points that you are raising that could be different threads, but for the sake of this discussion I will try to cover all of them.
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We know this is Maryada that was followed during Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee's time and has been followed in Jatha since then. The most logical proof of this is that you yourself are saying that Panj Pyare are to be remembered by giving out 5 separate Guphay of Degh to 5 Gursikhs, before distributing to the rest of Sangat. Is this not inequality? Why do 5 Gursikhs get Degh first before the rest of Sangat? If we take your thinking and apply it then we would be left with just anyone being able to take the first 5 Guphay. If those 5 Guphay are separate than the rest of Degh, and are given in name of Panj Pyare then isn't it logical that that Degh is for Panj Pyare?
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ਪੰਚਾਮ੍ਰਿਤ (ਮਹਾ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਦ) ਭੀ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਬਰਤਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਸਜਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰਕੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਰੂਪ ਖੜਗ-ਕੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਗ ਲੁਆਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ- Gurmat Bibek Pustak - pg. 216
As per writing of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, Degh is done Bhog by Guru Sahib and Guru Sahib does partake in the Degh. When Bhai Sahib says that it is Manmat to offer eatables to Guru Sahib he is talking about normal food that is offered as some Sampardas do, but Degh is not a normal food. It is Amrit and is given to us by Guru Nanak Dev jee.
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 08:31AM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 08:44AM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 11:01AM |
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ਪੰਚਾਮ੍ਰਿਤ (ਮਹਾ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਦ) ਭੀ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਬਰਤਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਸਜਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰਕੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਰੂਪ ਖੜਗ-ਕੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਗ ਲੁਆਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ- Gurmat Bibek Pustak - pg. 216
How else can you interpret ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰਕੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਰੂਪ ਖੜਗ-ਕੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਗ ਲੁਆਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ? The word Bhog here clearly means that Guru Akal Purakh is offered Degh through Kirpan and He partakes it. Why through Kirpan? Because Kirpan is a roop of Vaheguru - Jai Teghan.
If through Kirpan Bhet, Guru Akal Purakh does not partake Degh, then what is the point of doing Kirpan Bhet? You don't believe that Kirpan can eat Degh; then what's the point in doing it? If Kirpan bhet does not do anything spiritual, then what's the point of doing it? If Guru Sahib does not accept it through Kirpan, then placing Kirpan in Degh is an empty ritual but we know that this is not the case. Guru Sahib surely accepts and eats Degh which is prepared in accordance to Gurmat Bibek Maryada. We have full faith in it.
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There is a little known Saakhi about Bhai Sahib jee. A senior Akali Jathedar kept complaining to Bhai Sahib for not accepting Degh at Siri Darbar Sahib despite Bhog with Kirpan. First Bhai Sahib kept quite but when he persisted, Bhai Sahib declared that by just placing Kirpan in Degh, Bhog is not done, if Degh is not prepared in accordance to Bibek. The Jathedar kept arguing. Then Bhai Sahib asked him to prepare Degh and also had Tyaar bar Tyaar Gursikhs prepare Degh with full Maryada. Gursikh who has first hand information on this incident narrated this Saakhi to us and they confirmed that both Deghs were weighed before and after Kirpan bhet and it was found that Degh prepared by Bibeki Singhs weighed less after Bhog which meant that some Gapha was taken by Guru Sahib.
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Except for new age Missionaries and Kala Afghanas, all Sikh Jathebandiya e.g. Taksal, AKJ, Nanaksar etc. have this faith that Guru Sahib accepts and partakes if the Degh is made with Maryada and when they do Ardaas they use the word "Bhog" as opposed to the new word "Parvaan Karo". No one from senior Jatha Singhs use "Parvaan Karo" but they all use the word "Bhog". Now we have the writing of Bhai Sahib jee too quoted above. Where is there room for argument?
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And writings of Kahn Singh Nabha have to be taken with a grain of salt. He was not a Brahmgyaani or Aatam Darshi Gursikh like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee or other Mahapurakhs of that time. He also advocates eating meat and taking langar on chairs. Sure he was a great scholar and most of his writings are in accordance to Gurmat but there are some mistakes as well. So be careful Sukhdeep Singh jeeo. Siding with Gurmukhs like Bhai Sahib jee, you have no chance of losing in the Dargaah. So, stay with Singhs, when it comes to Maryada and Rehit.
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 11:15AM |
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One of the most panthic Singhs Giani Harbans Singh Ji has written about this in full detail, he has mentioned the doing Bhog of Degh originated from Hinduism and some Deras reintroduced the maryada in the Gurus Ghar.
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 11:31AM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 12:58PM |
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Kipan bhet is
for acceptance of degh and through kirpan bhet the
Shakti of sarab loh is transported to the degh.
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 02:00PM |
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This is pretty shocking. How can something that is made in Sarbloh not have the Shakti of Sarbloh? Degh is made in Sarbloh by Tyaar bar Tyaar Gursikhs, it already has the Shakti of Sarbloh. Doing Kirpan Bhet isn't "transporting" any Sarbloh Shakti. By this logic we can make Degh in steel and then just do Kirpan Bhet with a Sarbloh Kirpan and say it is Sarblohi Degh! We can do the same for food then! Your post makes no sense.
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 02:07PM |
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Giani Jee didn't provide any satisfactory reasons against Bhog of Degh and not to do Kirpaan Bhet during Ardaas. Most part of the book serve no purpose to Sikhi Sidhak.
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 04:43PM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 06:11PM |
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Singho, GIani Ji has done the most research on Degh Maryada we should respect his views. He has written its a puratan maryada to do Kirpan Bhet after Ardas.
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... to say the book serves no purpose of Sikhi Sidhak is uncalled for.
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 06:24PM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 13, 2014 07:20PM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 15, 2014 06:57AM |
Re: Showing Respect to Sangat March 16, 2014 04:42PM |
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Sprinkling water was a practical step taken to prevent dust from flying up and was/is also used before Guru Granth Sahib Ji is taken from one place to another, not just for Degh. If we stop using this approach in countries where we think the roads are clean or dust does not accumulate as much then in the future the practice may also stop where its really required. Ideally the whole floor should be washed but this is not always possible in the west, especially inside buildings.
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If we have faith in Degh which is 'magical' and like Kulbir Singh Ji mentioned, it does not have an adverse impact to our health. New age health freaks believe in this nonsensical rubbish. If it clogged up the arteries then Guru Sahib would have given us a warning not to consume too much or the ingredients would have been different.
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When I was younger we would ask for 'GerRaa' gupha of parshad if one felt like having more Degh or 'Swaiyaa' for less. These were common terms used by Singhs in the 70s. Ok I dont class the 70's as puratan but the thinking behind these terms must have originated much earlier and it was acceptable practice.