Showing Respect to Sangat

An incident occurred yesterday which got me thinking about the importance of showing respect to Sangat and how to do this.

We have been lucky to have Sangat of Gursikhs who have unintentionally taught us how to show our respect and the etiquette that is required when being a part of Sangat. Here are some of the things that come to mind.

1. Saying Fateh to Sangat after Matha Tek
This one has been covered before in a post by Bhai Kulbir Singh, Hands whilst doing matha tek. This one is pretty straight forward. At the time that Darbar is in session and Keertan is being done by Sangat or Paath is being heard by Sangat, we should do Parnaam to Sangat who is enjoying and distributing Laha of Gurbani. Another reason why we do this is because whenever we meet Gursikhs it is our duty to say Fateh according to Rehitnama which states, ਆਗੇ ਆਵਤ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੁ ਪਵੈ ॥ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ ਫਤੇ ਬੁਲਾਵੈ ॥ So logically when we enter place of Satsangat we should say Fateh to all of Sangat so we can fulfill this Hukam.

2. Sitting with Gursikhs Even After Bhog
This is something that we don't get to see at many Keertans anymore. Usually everyone runs away during Anand Sahib and the few that do stay will leave right after having Degh. Even after Bhog happens we should sit in Sangat and remain there until all Gursikhs are ready to leave. We should be mindful that we are part of Sangat and we should keep the same etiquette that we do during the Keertan as well.

3. Taking Permission Before Leaving
The same way that we would Matha Tek and say Fateh before leaving Guru Sahib's Hazoori, we should also ask for permission and say Fateh before leaving Sangat. By taking permission I mean that we should not be in a hurry to leave Sangat, and if we do have to leave we should stand and face Sangat, say Fateh either audibly, or in our Surti. When Keertan is not happening and Gursikhs are sitting for Vichaar or Santhiya, then it is imperative to ask for Agya before leaving.

These are just some points that came to mind, but the gist of it is that we should always be mindful of not only having Sharda for Sangat in our hearts, but to show the respect outwardly as well. This way if even our mind does not have the respect, at least by doing it outwardly we will start to learn to internalize it as well. By showing respect to Sangat and getting their Khushi, we are in turn obtaining Khushi of Guru Sahib.

Preetam Singh

I've heard some pranay Singh sharing that they like to leave as soon as degh varthaa'd or sukhasan is done so they don't get their lingering rass of Keertan or Paath to decrease by engaging in talking etc. more than a Fateh. That made sense to me, anything more than a Fateh always leaves a less than enjoyable taste in mind compared to the Anand of leaving right away from the Keertan and having those shabads on replay in the mind. Kee khyaal? I think you should re-iterate the terms of respect we should be giving whilst in sangat, what are the gurbani panktis or rehtnamay that talk about doing gup shup in divaan or coming and leaving in divaan over and over. .. bhul chuk maaf

Bhagatjot Singh jeeo,

My point in term of sitting after with Gursikhs was based on my personal experience and what we have seen in Sangat here. After Keertan Gursikhs usually sit and do Gurmat Vichaar, so I feel this is something that we should take advantage of. If staying after Keertan means talking about non Gurmat things then it is better to leave.

Recently at Bay Area Smagam Bhai Sadhu Singh jee held a Vichaar on Gurbani Ucharan after Asa kee Vaar which was geared towards Keertanis. But after Bhog no one stayed for the Vichaar even though there was announcement to stay. In such cases it is better to stay and take Laha outside of Keertan Laha that was already enjoyed.

Smagams should be a place where we not only get Laha of Gurbani but learn more about Gurmat. Rest only Guru Sahib knows what is best to do, this is only a suggestion.

This was not a finite list, please add more points so we can learn from eachother.

Preetam Singh

Beautifully advised here by Preetam Singh Jee,

Extremely importance is of how we go to Guru Sahib - in full fledged bana - no jeans- no suits or any western clothing as much as possible - sure we have to goto work etc but when free from work i.e just for keertan smagams it's should be big MUST to go in bana.

Vichaar is of exterem importance - about year or two ago there was veechar done in english before the smagam started - i thought this was excellent for youth - but it never continued. I feel it is so important for veechar in english as well as Punajbi - at some point before or after smagam. If we have attended a smagam for shower of mercy and blessing of keertan surely veechar will only cement it even more. my 2 cents

Dear ns44 jeeo
You said that a person should be in a proper bana and no jeans no suits I literally agree with you.....
But if a person who in regular dont have a proper nitnem leave amritwela aside...
And when smagam came he make himself with full bana outfit.Do u think it is good for him? Or do you think mahraaj will be happy with his this karamkaand?
What I personally think is that Guru mahraaj donot think of what my sikh has weared but what Pita jee wants to saw in his sikh is PREM AND PYAAR for naam,gurbani,rehat and amritwela...
Inspite of indulging in these kind of karamkaand.We should spend more time towards our mind outfit that how to make it clear..

Bakki Guru Mahraaj knows well.

Bhul chuk maafi jii

p21singh jeeo,

I don't think it can ever be a bad thing to wear Bana. Even if someone doesn't have the Jeevan of a Gursikh, if they wear Bana there is more chance of them coming to the right path than just giving up a Rehit due to not following another Rehit.

This being said, I do think that it is very shameful for someone wearing Bana to do non Gurmat activities, but I think we should tell them to stop doing those Paaps rather than stop them from wearing Bana.

Regarding your point about Guru Sahib not caring what we wear the following Panktian make it clear that Guru Sahib does tell us to not wear Manmukh clothing, and that what we wear does affect our Avastha.
ਬਾਬਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਪੈਨਣੁ ਖੁਸੀ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥
ਜਿਤੁ ਪੈਧੈ ਤਨੁ ਪੀੜੀਐ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਚਲਹਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

How can the mind's outfit become good and Vikaar free if the body is wearing Kaami and Besharm clothing? Wearing pants leaves no Parhda and there is no Sharam in clothing like this. We should all strive to wear Bana even if we are not at fully Gurmukh Avastha.

Preetam Singh

Bhai sahib I really request you from bottom of my heart but I don't got the meaning of this line:

We should all strive to wear Bana even if we are not at fully Gurmukh Avastha.

Why should we??

If we don't know what we are wearing ang why we are wearing? Then why are we wearing it for publicity sorry to say if we don't know,then only this will be the reason for it.
I don't get this if we wear bana we will automatically move towards gurmat ??
Wearing pant for men isn't it is beshram I know for girls it is beshram and not to wear that stuff.

But if a man is wearing pant then how it could be?

Bhai sahib jee I am little moorakh bacha I hope you would tell me and give a reasonable explaination?


Maafi jee

p21singh jeeo,

The reason we should strive towards wearing Bana even if we are not fully Gurmukh Avastha is because we should strive to follow all of Guru Sahib's Hukams be inner Hukam or outer Hukam. We should strive to be of fully Gurmukh Avastha, and wearing Bana will help in our progress towards being fully Gurmukh.

You cannot take Amrit without first wearing Bana. You will not be allowed into the Amritsanchar Mandal, so this in itself is proof enough that in order to become of Gurmukh Avastha we must first wear Bana.

Regarding the Besharmi of wearing pant for men is because it shows your front and back without keeping any Parhda. Western standards of modesty are very low but Guru Sahib has already set modesty for Gursikhs to be a kurta that goes at least past the knees for both Bibian and Singhs.

Also, how will the mind attune itself to Gurbani while sitting in Sangat if you are so uncomfortable due to pants that do not allow for ease of sitting.

Maybe just the sharam of wearing Bana will deter us from doing Paap. Guru Sahib Kirpa Karn.

Preetam Singh

p21singh jeeo,

wearing bana has nothing to do with publicitiy - i ask you why shouuld we not? and consider Bhai Preetam Singh's response before answering

Bhai sahib jee
I am raen of all you gurmukhs
I am nothing but a manmukh
But actually what I think is that if a person doesn't knws what amritwela is what bibek is I think that he should not wear bana because if take an example at some occassion any gurmukh ask him a question about his amritwela and if he ask that I don't have amritwela.Then ain't you think he is doing nothing but only dikhava.

That's what I mean and what I think if a person is wearing than firstly he would make himself not from outer but from inner of his soul tyaar bar tyaar and have such kamaee abhiyaas and amritwela that he will be a example to all....
Like Bhai Sahib jee....
I respect you all people
Actually that is what I think. bhai preetam singh jee is also right at his own point...


Rest Pita jee knows

p21singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bhai sahib jee
> I am raen of all you gurmukhs
> I am nothing but a manmukh
> But actually what I think is that if a person
> doesn't knws what amritwela is what bibek is I
> think that he should not wear bana because if take
> an example at some occassion any gurmukh ask him a
> question about his amritwela and if he ask that I
> don't have amritwela.Then ain't you think he is
> doing nothing but only dikhava.

100% agree dikava - however we never when that dikava may turn intop proper pahrava do we? out 10 who do it maybe 1 make make it for real - therefore we have to be flexible.
>
> That's what I mean and what I think if a person is
> wearing than firstly he would make himself not
> from outer but from inner of his soul tyaar bar
> tyaar and have such kamaee abhiyaas and amritwela

Whatever a person takes a step either outer or inner doesnt really matter - what really matters is there is some sort of step. however if we just criticisze every single action we end up nowhere and nowehre fast.

> that he will be a example to all....
> Like Bhai Sahib jee....
> I respect you all people
> Actually that is what I think. bhai preetam singh
> jee is also right at his own point...
>
likewise you are respected too - many thanks for clearing your views - it's always diffcult when on a forum - i personally think we as sikhs have debates live airing all the time - so a perrson can tune in and learn as much as possible.

> Rest Pita jee knows

100% agree

As we are on the topic of respecting sangat, one new age maryada I have noticed which shows a lack of respect to sangat is the double serving of deg to Panj Singhs. The Maryada of giving out deg to 5 Singhs was given by Sri Guru Gobind SIngh JI as a means to respect/honor the Panj Pyaarey . So in sweet remembrance of the Panj Pyaarey we take out 5 handfuls of degh to 5 guriskhs first. Once again this is for sangat to always remember the sacrifice of the Panj Pyaarey the five Gursikhs who are receiving the degh are not the Panj Pyaarey and we shouldn't equate them with the Panj Pyaarey the same way we equate the 5 Gursikhs who do Panj Pyaare seva at Amrit Sanchars.

To say there is "Panj Pyaarey Degh" and "Sangati Degh" is not in accordance to maryada. WHen we prepare degh we use equal amounts of the ingredients to symbolize the equality amongst sangat in addition there are numerous rehatname which state we should distribute equal amounts of degh to sangat. When we give a double serving the the first 5 gursikhs then this puts them a head of sangat. Some poeple purposely sit in the front so they can get a double serving of degh some even think the more degh one gets the more kirpa they got and the more Chardhi Kala they are. This type of ego and greed for degh is also disrespectful for sangat. In Puratan times, degh was also called Kiney ( small) parshaad. Meaning it was accepted in small amounts with contentment. Greed for deg is not a virtue of Gurmat or Gurmukhs and parshaad does not mean parsaad ( kirpa). When sitting in sangat we should sit as equals its egotistical and silly to think we are taking on the role of Panj Pyaare because we receive deg first. This maryada is to remind us of the Panj Pyaarey in know way does it give anyone the authority to act like Panj Pyaarey.

Sukhdeep Singh jeeo,

I am not sure how you came to think this is a new age Maryada, but this has been happening since Guru Sahib's time. The Degh that is taken out for Panj Pyare is actually partaken of by the original Panj Pyare in Sachkhand, the same way Guru Sahib partakes of Degh when Bhog is done with Kirpan. Therefore the Gursikhs who are given the first 5 Guphay of Degh are not getting Degh for themselves but are getting Degh for Panj Pyare.

The reason these 5 Gursikhs are given another Gupha of Degh each is because they have not gotten their Gupha yet. No one is saying there is Panj Pyare Degh and Sangat Degh as if there is any inequality. It is just the same way that we take out Gupha for the Granthi before serving to the rest of Sangat.

I'm not sure why this is an issue for you.

Please give a reference for Kiney Parshaad. As per writings of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, Gursikhs in the past would give out very large Guphay of Degh and eating lots of Degh is a sign of a Shud Atma. The example of Bhai Nand Singh is one that comes to mind where unending Guphay of Degh were given out and Bhai Nand Singh gave Asheervaad to Bhai Sahib's Jatha.

Degh is full of Guru Sahib's Kirpa because it is full of Amrit and has been done Bhog by Guru Sahib. The more Degh we eat, the better. If Degh is made with full Maryada and by Rehitvaan Naam Abhiyaasi Gurmukhs, then Manmukhs who eat this Degh will be given Gursikhi in their future.

Vah Vah! Even thinking about Degh is making me crave big Guphay of Garam Garam Degh! Guru Sahib Kirpa Karan Atay Shetee Degh De Khulay Guphay Bakhsan!

Preetam Singh

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I am not sure how you came to think this is a new age Maryada, but this has been happening since Guru Sahib's time. The Degh that is taken out for Panj Pyare is actually partaken of by the original Panj Pyare in Sachkhand, the same way Guru Sahib partakes of Degh when Bhog is done with Kirpan. Therefore the Gursikhs who are given the first 5 Guphay of Degh are not getting Degh for themselves but are getting Degh for Panj Pyare.

Preetam Singh Jeeo,. why are you under the impression this is a puratan maryada. Can you quote any puratan maryada or sakhi to back up this claim? Some times many people claim they are following a puratan maryada but they never provide any solid evidence to back up their claims. The 5 Singhs who are the first to partake deg are not acting as Panj Pyaare the same way 5 Singhs act as Panj Pyaare during AMrit Sanchar. To be selected as Panj Pyaare seva is a rigirous process. One cant just be acting as a Panj Pyaare because he is sitting in the front or wearing Bana or keeping basic rehat. Panj Pyaarey seva should not be taken lightly. 5 singhs get deg first to remind us of the Panj Pyaare they are not the panj pyaare eating the degh.. The maryada of given Deg to 5 singhs was started by SRi Guru Gobind Singh Ji. He was very pleased with the sacrifices of his pyaare and he said from now on during the distribution of deg the panth will always remember you.

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Please give a reference for Kiney Parshaad. As per writings of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh, Gursikhs in the past would give out very large Guphay of Degh and eating lots of Degh is a sign of a Shud Atma. The example of Bhai Nand Singh is one that comes to mind where unending Guphay of Degh were given out and Bhai Nand Singh gave Asheervaad to Bhai Sahib's Jatha.

Refer to Gurmat Sudhakar ( BHai Kahn SIngh Nabha) he mentions in puratan times Deg was referred to as Kinkey Parshad. ALso there are numerous sakhis which illustrate SInghs were content in taking small degh. On one occasion Mata Sahib Kaur ji asked Sri GUru Ji is there any Gurmukh whose life is an example in the verses of Sri Sukhmani Sahib. SRi Guru Ji told Mata Ji to make Degh and sent Bhai Ram Koer ( aka Gurbaksh Singh Ji) to her. Sri GUru Ji told the SInghs to eat the degh and with greed ( hunger) they all ate the degh quickly without contentment. Bhai Ram Koer Ji stayed by Sri GUru Jis side and did not partake in the ravage of the degh. SRi Guru Ji then said this will be the chracter of his Khalsa they will be content singhs practinc Satogun when ever partaking food. On another ocassion there was a SIngh who was sitting in the Darbar Sahib and he had a strong desire ( thirst) to eat alot of degh. SRi Guru Ji fullfilled this desire. The SIngh then became sick and couldnt get up . There are numerous sakhis which show puratan SInghs did not fiend ( obsessed) for deg

Degh is full of Guru Sahib's Kirpa because it is full of Amrit and has been done Bhog by Guru Sahib. The more Degh we eat, the better. If Degh is made with full Maryada and by Rehitvaan Naam Abhiyaasi Gurmukhs, then Manmukhs who eat this Degh will be given Gursikhi in their future.

Nobody is denying there are blessings with deg, but its strange to say the more deg when eats the more kirpa or more pure their atma there atma becomes. If this is the case lets all just eat degh and no need for Naam Abhyiaas. Also, why do you assume Sri GUru Ji is doing bhog of Degh. He is doing parvan of Degh. BHai Sahib Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji mentions it is manmat to offer eatables to SRi Guru Granth Sahib Ji ( Gurmat Parkash). Bhai Kahn SIngh Ji also says its manmat to say kirpan is the mouth of SRi Guru Ji.

Sukhdeep Singh jeeo,

It is very saddening that you are also starting to adhere to the Kala Afghana thinking that Guru Sahib does not do Bhog to Degh. You are making an issue out of this for no reason.

There are so many points that you are raising that could be different threads, but for the sake of this discussion I will try to cover all of them.

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Preetam Singh Jeeo,. why are you under the impression this is a puratan maryada. Can you quote any puratan maryada or sakhi to back up this claim? Some times many people claim they are following a puratan maryada but they never provide any solid evidence to back up their claims

We know this is Maryada that was followed during Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee's time and has been followed in Jatha since then. The most logical proof of this is that you yourself are saying that Panj Pyare are to be remembered by giving out 5 separate Guphay of Degh to 5 Gursikhs, before distributing to the rest of Sangat. Is this not inequality? Why do 5 Gursikhs get Degh first before the rest of Sangat? If we take your thinking and apply it then we would be left with just anyone being able to take the first 5 Guphay. If those 5 Guphay are separate than the rest of Degh, and are given in name of Panj Pyare then isn't it logical that that Degh is for Panj Pyare?

The written evidence we get for this is Hukam to remember Panj Pyare and give 5 Gursikhs Degh before serving the rest of Sangat. Practically this is something you learn while doing Degh Seva with learned Gursikhs. In a Bata first 5 Guphay are taken out while invoking each of the Panj Pyare by name. Then these 5 Guphay are given out to 5 Tyar bar Tyar Gursikhs who are capable of Seva in Amrit Sanchar. Until all 5 Guphay are given out they do not start to eat the Degh. When all 5 Guphay are given out then they eat the Degh and Guphay are taken out for Granthi Singh. After this Degh is given out to Sangat without looking at who the person is. Without doing any Bhed, the Sevadaar must give out the Degh. The Sevadaar does not look to see if someone has gotten Degh before or not, the Sevadaar just looks at the hands in front and keeps on distributing the Degh.

The very reason why those 5 Gursikhs are given Gupha again with Sangat is because they are not separate from Sangat and are not above Sangat. They will get their Gupha when rest of Sangat gets their Gupha as well.

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Refer to Gurmat Sudhakar ( BHai Kahn SIngh Nabha) he mentions in puratan times Deg was referred to as Kinkey Parshad. ALso there are numerous sakhis which illustrate SInghs were content in taking small degh.

No one is arguing that we should not be content with as much Degh as we are given. But what we are saying is that we are allowed to have lots of Degh as well.

If in Bhana we are only given even a Kinka of Degh then we should be thankful to Guru Sahib and we should not have our eyes on someone else's Gupha, but it is fine to want Guru Sahib to give you lots of Degh. It cant be against Gurmat to love eating Degh. My stomach doth protest!

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Nobody is denying there are blessings with deg, but its strange to say the more deg when eats the more kirpa or more pure their atma there atma becomes. If this is the case lets all just eat degh and no need for Naam Abhyiaas. Also, why do you assume Sri GUru Ji is doing bhog of Degh. He is doing parvan of Degh. BHai Sahib Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji mentions it is manmat to offer eatables to SRi Guru Granth Sahib Ji ( Gurmat Parkash). Bhai Kahn SIngh Ji also says its manmat to say kirpan is the mouth of SRi Guru Ji.

ਪੰਚਾਮ੍ਰਿਤ (ਮਹਾ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਦ) ਭੀ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਬਰਤਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਸਜਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰਕੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਰੂਪ ਖੜਗ-ਕੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਗ ਲੁਆਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ- Gurmat Bibek Pustak - pg. 216

As per writing of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, Degh is done Bhog by Guru Sahib and Guru Sahib does partake in the Degh. When Bhai Sahib says that it is Manmat to offer eatables to Guru Sahib he is talking about normal food that is offered as some Sampardas do, but Degh is not a normal food. It is Amrit and is given to us by Guru Nanak Dev jee.

You should come to Toronto and have some Garam Degh and then you will surely change your mind that we should only take little bit. We should always keep our hands open and hope for a huge Gupha.

Preetam Singh

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It is very saddening that you are also starting to adhere to the Kala Afghana thinking that Guru Sahib does not do Bhog to Degh. You are making an issue out of this for no reason.

There are so many points that you are raising that could be different threads, but for the sake of this discussion I will try to cover all of them.

Preetam SIngh Jeeo, its very sad that you are resorting to the tactic of associating someone with a heretic like Kala Afghana just because they dont share the same views with you. We dont appreciate these cheap tactics. There are many Gursikhs who believe its Parvan not Bhog. One of the most panthic Singhs Giani Harbans Singh Ji has written about this in full detail, he has mentioned the doing Bhog of Degh originated from Hinduism and some Deras reintroduced the maryada in the Gurus Ghar. If I have time on a separate thread I will share why Giani Ji has mentioned why its Parvan and not Bhog. But until then you have to learn the history and maryada of Degh before you jump to conclusions. You cant call something puratan unless you have evidence if not how are you know different then all the Babe in Deras who claim their maryada to be puratan? Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji did parvan of Degh. In puratan times when degh was served there was a mystical handprint of Sri GUru Jis hand this meant that the degh was approved and can be served ( Bhai Bala Janam Sakhi) . This maryada later changed from mystical hand print to kirpan bhet during the times of Sri GUru Gobind Singh JI.

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We know this is Maryada that was followed during Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee's time and has been followed in Jatha since then. The most logical proof of this is that you yourself are saying that Panj Pyare are to be remembered by giving out 5 separate Guphay of Degh to 5 Gursikhs, before distributing to the rest of Sangat. Is this not inequality? Why do 5 Gursikhs get Degh first before the rest of Sangat? If we take your thinking and apply it then we would be left with just anyone being able to take the first 5 Guphay. If those 5 Guphay are separate than the rest of Degh, and are given in name of Panj Pyare then isn't it logical that that Degh is for Panj Pyare?

Sorry for the confusion but I think we are getting mixed up with the meaning of words. Whenever I use the term "Puratan" I am referring to the time of SRi GUru Ji not BHai Sahib. In addition, knowing and believing are two different things. You dont know Bhai Sahib did this you believe he did if you knew then provide some good evidence. Most Jatha programs I have been too Degh was not given twice twothe first 5 Singhs. The only time Degh was given twice was when there was too much degh after serving all sangat. Once again the double serving is a new age maryada followed by small segment of the Jatha, Secondly , Bhai Nand Lal Singh Ji has mentioned not too serve some with more or less when giving degh. ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਕੋ ਬਾਂਟ ਹੈ ਮਨ ਮੇਂ ਧਾਰੇ ਲੋਭ, ਕਸਿੇ ਥੋੜਾ ਕਸਿੇ ਅਗਲਾ ਸਦਾ ਰਹੇ ਤਸਿ ਸੋਗ ॥ (੯). So Deg is to be distributed equally to sangat as sangat is the roop of Sri Guru Ji. iThe degh is made with the ingredients being measured equally likewise it is given to sangat in equal proportions.

I have already mentioned why 5 gursikhs get degh first. Even when there are not 5 Gursikhs present the sevadar still recites the name of the Panj as this is a remembrance of the Panj and then the degh is given to sangat. Again its for the remembrance of the Panj Pyaarey. 5 handfuls are still taken out even if 5 SInghs arent present and then put back into the bata. This alone proves that the taking out 5 handfuls is there to remind sangat of Panj Pyaarey as accordance to Sri GUru Jis Hukum. Once again you have to study the history of this maryada. Sri GUru Gobind Singh Ji said that Panj Pyaarey will always be " remembered" during distribution of degh. Most of the panth agree with this and as an example most Gursikhs do not make double offerings to the first 5 Gursikhs. This is only practiced by a small segment of Jatha Singhs and in my humble opinion it does not give equal respect to sangat who is the embodiment of Sri GUru Ji. Every jathebandi has their own innovation when it comes to Degh Maryada. There should be some uniformity in making and serving degh. You have not quoted one sakhi or rehatnama to back up your claim that first 5 Gursikhs must get a double serving which to me illustrates you are only following a maryada practiced by a small segment of Gursikhs.

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ਪੰਚਾਮ੍ਰਿਤ (ਮਹਾ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਦ) ਭੀ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਬਰਤਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਸਜਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰਕੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਰੂਪ ਖੜਗ-ਕੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਗ ਲੁਆਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ- Gurmat Bibek Pustak - pg. 216

As per writing of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, Degh is done Bhog by Guru Sahib and Guru Sahib does partake in the Degh. When Bhai Sahib says that it is Manmat to offer eatables to Guru Sahib he is talking about normal food that is offered as some Sampardas do, but Degh is not a normal food. It is Amrit and is given to us by Guru Nanak Dev jee.

There are different meanings to the term " Bhog". Besides eating Bhog also means to end. For example the term "Akhand Paath Bhog". Kirpan Bhet finalizes the Deg making it approved to distribute to sangat. Once again there is a history of Kirpan Bhet.Bhai Kahn SIngh Ji Nabha who is learned and panthic scholar has mentioned how the belief that Sri Sahib is the mouth of Sri Guru Ji and it eats the degh is not in accordance to Gurmat. This belief is popular among a small segment of Nihang Singhs not all Nihangs. We dont think Bhai Sahib would ever suggest Sri Sahib eats the degh, and we hope you are not suggesting so. From the beginning Kirpan Bhet was done for acceptance of Degh for sangat to partake of. Even when a Nigura ( Dayal Das) asked Sri Guru Ji to do kirpan bhet to degh and langar to make it acceptable for sangat to eat Sri Guru Ji refused and said the maryada has been set and cant be changed. So Kirpan bhet if to make the degh accepted kirpan does not actually eat the food. Its why we do ardas for Sri Guru Ji to accept the degh we are not doing ardas for Sri Guru Ji to eat the degh.

'Jamman, Maran, Viyah, Anand Aad(i) Samay Jap Da Paath Karke, Karah Parshaad Tyaar Karke, Anand Sahib Da Paath, Ardas Karke, Panjaa'n Pyaarea'n Ate Hazoori Granthee Singhaa'n Da Vartara Varta Ke Rakh Uprant Sangataa'n Nu Varta Dena.'
- 12th of 52 Hukams by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee.

Sukhdeep Singh, please stop making issues out of non issues!

Sukhdeep Singh jeeo,

I am surprised that we are arguing whether Bhog is done to Guru Sahib or not, at the time of Kirpan bhet in Degh. Please read the following lines from Bhai Sahib again:

ਪੰਚਾਮ੍ਰਿਤ (ਮਹਾ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਦ) ਭੀ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਬਰਤਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਸਜਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰਕੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਰੂਪ ਖੜਗ-ਕੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਗ ਲੁਆਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ- Gurmat Bibek Pustak - pg. 216

How else can you interpret ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰਕੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਰੂਪ ਖੜਗ-ਕੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਗ ਲੁਆਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ? The word Bhog here clearly means that Guru Akal Purakh is offered Degh through Kirpan and He partakes it. Why through Kirpan? Because Kirpan is a roop of Vaheguru - Jai Teghan.

If through Kirpan Bhet, Guru Akal Purakh does not partake Degh, then what is the point of doing Kirpan Bhet? You don't believe that Kirpan can eat Degh; then what's the point in doing it? If Kirpan bhet does not do anything spiritual, then what's the point of doing it? If Guru Sahib does not accept it through Kirpan, then placing Kirpan in Degh is an empty ritual but we know that this is not the case. Guru Sahib surely accepts and eats Degh which is prepared in accordance to Gurmat Bibek Maryada. We have full faith in it.

There is a little known Saakhi about Bhai Sahib jee. A senior Akali Jathedar kept complaining to Bhai Sahib for not accepting Degh at Siri Darbar Sahib despite Bhog with Kirpan. First Bhai Sahib kept quite but when he persisted, Bhai Sahib declared that by just placing Kirpan in Degh, Bhog is not done, if Degh is not prepared in accordance to Bibek. The Jathedar kept arguing. Then Bhai Sahib asked him to prepare Degh and also had Tyaar bar Tyaar Gursikhs prepare Degh with full Maryada. Gursikh who has first hand information on this incident narrated this Saakhi to us and they confirmed that both Deghs were weighed before and after Kirpan bhet and it was found that Degh prepared by Bibeki Singhs weighed less after Bhog which meant that some Gapha was taken by Guru Sahib.

Except for new age Missionaries and Kala Afghanas, all Sikh Jathebandiya e.g. Taksal, AKJ, Nanaksar etc. have this faith that Guru Sahib accepts and partakes if the Degh is made with Maryada and when they do Ardaas they use the word "Bhog" as opposed to the new word "Parvaan Karo". No one from senior Jatha Singhs use "Parvaan Karo" but they all use the word "Bhog". Now we have the writing of Bhai Sahib jee too quoted above. Where is there room for argument?

It has been a standard practice in Akhand Kirtani Jatha to give Punj Pyare Degh first and they give those Gursikhs, their own share as well when rest of the Sangat is given Degh. Jatha cannot stop this Puratan Maryada at your behest or because of some new age logics. This is how it's done in Jatha and this is how it will continue to happen.

As for eating more or less Degh, this is entirely dependent on how much Degh is distributed. Whatever amount of Degh is distributed (whether more or less), a Gursikh should accept as is. To ask for less is to shirk responsibility and to insult Degh. To show greed and covet someone else's share too is a wrong thing to do but if the distributor Sevadaar offers more Degh, one should consider it a great fortune and should not refuse.

Some new age people, who are under the influence of doctors and medical propaganda, try to avoid Degh thinking that their cholesterol will shoot up with more Degh. Such people are faithless people who have no faith in the wisdom of Guru Sahib. How can Degh harm anyone?

And writings of Kahn Singh Nabha have to be taken with a grain of salt. He was not a Brahmgyaani or Aatam Darshi Gursikh like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee or other Mahapurakhs of that time. He also advocates eating meat and taking langar on chairs. Sure he was a great scholar and most of his writings are in accordance to Gurmat but there are some mistakes as well. So be careful Sukhdeep Singh jeeo. Siding with Gurmukhs like Bhai Sahib jee, you have no chance of losing in the Dargaah. So, stay with Singhs, when it comes to Maryada and Rehit.

Kulbir Singh

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ਪੰਚਾਮ੍ਰਿਤ (ਮਹਾ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਦ) ਭੀ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਬਰਤਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਸਜਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰਕੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਰੂਪ ਖੜਗ-ਕੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਗ ਲੁਆਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ- Gurmat Bibek Pustak - pg. 216

How else can you interpret ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰਕੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਰੂਪ ਖੜਗ-ਕੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਗ ਲੁਆਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ? The word Bhog here clearly means that Guru Akal Purakh is offered Degh through Kirpan and He partakes it. Why through Kirpan? Because Kirpan is a roop of Vaheguru - Jai Teghan.

If through Kirpan Bhet, Guru Akal Purakh does not partake Degh, then what is the point of doing Kirpan Bhet? You don't believe that Kirpan can eat Degh; then what's the point in doing it? If Kirpan bhet does not do anything spiritual, then what's the point of doing it? If Guru Sahib does not accept it through Kirpan, then placing Kirpan in Degh is an empty ritual but we know that this is not the case. Guru Sahib surely accepts and eats Degh which is prepared in accordance to Gurmat Bibek Maryada. We have full faith in it.

Veer Kulbir Singh Jee, we think you are taking Bhai Sahib quote of its original context. Quote the whole paragraph and see . Bhai Sahib in this paragraph is talking about the Shakhti of Sarab Loh he mentions even when do Sarab Loh kirpan touches the deg during Kirpan Bhet the power transports into the degh and and as a result the consumer of the degh received the shakhti of sarab loh.

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There is a little known Saakhi about Bhai Sahib jee. A senior Akali Jathedar kept complaining to Bhai Sahib for not accepting Degh at Siri Darbar Sahib despite Bhog with Kirpan. First Bhai Sahib kept quite but when he persisted, Bhai Sahib declared that by just placing Kirpan in Degh, Bhog is not done, if Degh is not prepared in accordance to Bibek. The Jathedar kept arguing. Then Bhai Sahib asked him to prepare Degh and also had Tyaar bar Tyaar Gursikhs prepare Degh with full Maryada. Gursikh who has first hand information on this incident narrated this Saakhi to us and they confirmed that both Deghs were weighed before and after Kirpan bhet and it was found that Degh prepared by Bibeki Singhs weighed less after Bhog which meant that some Gapha was taken by Guru Sahib.

We cannot take any sakhis of Bhai Sahib ad the full truth. We have heard many strange sakhis about Bhai Sahib which cannot be true. FOr example, we have heard prominent Sikhs claim he ate from people who: wore earings, accidently meat, and mothers who did not keep rehat. We cant rely on these sakhis we can only rely on what he has personally said in his writings.

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Except for new age Missionaries and Kala Afghanas, all Sikh Jathebandiya e.g. Taksal, AKJ, Nanaksar etc. have this faith that Guru Sahib accepts and partakes if the Degh is made with Maryada and when they do Ardaas they use the word "Bhog" as opposed to the new word "Parvaan Karo". No one from senior Jatha Singhs use "Parvaan Karo" but they all use the word "Bhog". Now we have the writing of Bhai Sahib jee too quoted above. Where is there room for argument?

Both Nanaksar and Taksal have developed maryadas which not part of DEg Maryada. For example, Nanksar have the seeta parsad maryada where a Baba eats first and then gives to the rest of the sangat. Taksal sprinkle water a head of DEgh. Giani Harbans SIngh Ji who is a Giani and a Naam Abhiaasi Singh has spoken out against these practices. We remember you once telling us how he did a whole Akhand Paath in one sitting by himself surely he must have some naam kamaee? So, I wouldn't frame him in the same category as Kala Afghana and missionaries. IN our time he is probably the most panthic scholar alive today. He too has mentioned its parvan not Bhog. When I have time I will share these writings.

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And writings of Kahn Singh Nabha have to be taken with a grain of salt. He was not a Brahmgyaani or Aatam Darshi Gursikh like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee or other Mahapurakhs of that time. He also advocates eating meat and taking langar on chairs. Sure he was a great scholar and most of his writings are in accordance to Gurmat but there are some mistakes as well. So be careful Sukhdeep Singh jeeo. Siding with Gurmukhs like Bhai Sahib jee, you have no chance of losing in the Dargaah. So, stay with Singhs, when it comes to Maryada and Rehit.

You know through some past personal emails I do not share the same views of Bhai Kahn SIngh Nabha JI. At a time when SIkhi was following deep into Hinduism people like BHai Kahn SIngh Nabha and other Singh Sabhas did immense seva in taking SIkhi out of the pit of HINDUMAT, and thus we have to respect his views. Bhai Kahn SIngh Nabha Ji had the funds and leisure time to research Rehat maryada and so his views have to be appreciated. We know very well he was a liberal Sikh but at the same time he was a learned Sikh who knew the difference between Hindumat and Gurmat. In Hindumat the word Bhog has a different connotation then it does in Gurmat. For example, in Hindumat the word Bhog refers to offering of food to a devta. The food is offered in a fire and the fire is regarded as the mouth of the devta. So we humbly ask you and others not to suggest the Kirpan is the mouth of Sri Guru JI. Kipan bhet is for acceptance of degh and through kirpan bhet the Shakti of sarab loh is transported to the degh. You have the book about Degh Maryada by Giani Harbans SIngh Ji, Giani Ji has written in detail why its not Bhog we can only suggest you read these writings.

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One of the most panthic Singhs Giani Harbans Singh Ji has written about this in full detail, he has mentioned the doing Bhog of Degh originated from Hinduism and some Deras reintroduced the maryada in the Gurus Ghar.

It is sad that a learned scholar has made certain comments on Degh which are not in line with Gurmat Maryada. Daas have read Giani Harbans Singh Jee's book on Degh Maryada, although Giani jee made some good points to prepare Degh in Sarabloh and with Soochamta but I must say Giani jee went off the track when they made comments against Bhog of Degh and not to do Kirpaan Bhet during Ardaas.

Giani Jee didn't provide any satisfactory reasons against Bhog of Degh and not to do Kirpaan Bhet during Ardaas. Most part of the book serve no purpose to Sikhi Sidhak.

If time allowed and Guru Sahib wished Daas would write a short text on 'Dar Parvaan hovay' or 'Hun Lavoo Bhog Harrai' and why Bhog should be done during Ardaas as oppose to after Ardaas or After Hukamnama.

To make another point.

It is confirmed by Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh and other jot vigaasi singhs in jatha that degh made and given out by bibeki gursikhs is acceptable to Guru Sahib. So if Guru Sahib does bhog of this degh it is a great sin to refuse this degh. Are we higher then Guru Sahib? Refusing this bibeki degh, can lead to harsh consequences such as serious health problems as just one example. Then what happens in the next world is anyone's guess.

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Kipan bhet is
for acceptance of degh and through kirpan bhet the
Shakti of sarab loh is transported to the degh.

This is pretty shocking. How can something that is made in Sarbloh not have the Shakti of Sarbloh? Degh is made in Sarbloh by Tyaar bar Tyaar Gursikhs, it already has the Shakti of Sarbloh. Doing Kirpan Bhet isn't "transporting" any Sarbloh Shakti. By this logic we can make Degh in steel and then just do Kirpan Bhet with a Sarbloh Kirpan and say it is Sarblohi Degh! We can do the same for food then! Your post makes no sense.

Sukhdeep Singh, these Singhs have done Sangat with many older Kamaee valai Gursikhs for many decades. You have not done that much Sangat as you yourself have written in the past you live in a rural area without much Sangat. There are not many Old Jatha Singhs in California while Toronto and Vancouver is full of them. Doing your own research is great but without having Sangat of Older Gursikhs you will be led astray like you have in the past on so many issues, like Guru Nanak Dev Jee not being Akaal Purakh and countless other ones.

Bentee in your feet please do not mislead Sangat with your views!

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This is pretty shocking. How can something that is made in Sarbloh not have the Shakti of Sarbloh? Degh is made in Sarbloh by Tyaar bar Tyaar Gursikhs, it already has the Shakti of Sarbloh. Doing Kirpan Bhet isn't "transporting" any Sarbloh Shakti. By this logic we can make Degh in steel and then just do Kirpan Bhet with a Sarbloh Kirpan and say it is Sarblohi Degh! We can do the same for food then! Your post makes no sense.

Pandit Sahib you are not understanding what Im saying. Im saying the verse written by Bhai Sahib
ਪੰਚਾਮ੍ਰਿਤ (ਮਹਾ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਦ) ਭੀ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਬਰਤਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਸਜਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਭੇਟ ਕਰਕੇ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਰੂਪ ਖੜਗ-ਕੇਤ ਨੂੰ ਭੋਗ ਲੁਆਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ- Gurmat Bibek Pustak - pg. 216


Is specfically written about the rehat of Sarab Loh Bibek and the mention of kirpan bhet to degh is referring to how the power of Sarab Loh bibek is transfored from the kirpan to the degh and the person who eats the degh is blessed with this power. Nowhere doesd it mention that SRi Guru Ji is eating the deg through the kirpan. Do you mean to tell me Bhai Sahib shared the views of the Sanatanist who say Kirpan is the mouth of Guru Sahib?

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Giani Jee didn't provide any satisfactory reasons against Bhog of Degh and not to do Kirpaan Bhet during Ardaas. Most part of the book serve no purpose to Sikhi Sidhak.

Singho, GIani Ji has done the most research on Degh Maryada we should respect his views. He has written its a puratan maryada to do Kirpan Bhet after Ardas. He mentions this puratan maryada still takes place today at the histroical GUrdwaara SRi Harmandir Sahib. I too do not agree with everything GIani Ji has said about Degh Maryada but to say the book serves no purpose of Sikhi Sidhak is uncalled for. GIani Ji has done an excellent job in discussing panthic maryada of Degh. The reason why there are so many differences in Sikhi is because everyone is following their own maryada. People are inventing maryadas and calling them purtatan maryada. He mentions how Taksal has invented the maryada of sprinkling water ahead of degh when bringing into the Darbar Sahib, but nowhere in history is this mentioned even though Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji mentions this is mentioned in Sau Sakhi and other text. But this maryada is not mentioned anywhere. There is so much disunity and confusion on maryada because everyone is inventing their own maryada. GIanI Harbans SIngh Ji has done an excellent job in propagating maryada according to Gurmat and SIkh history.

Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Giani Jee didn't provide any satisfactory reasons
> against Bhog of Degh and not to do Kirpaan Bhet
> during Ardaas. Most part of the book serve no
> purpose to Sikhi Sidhak.
>
> Singho, GIani Ji has done the most research on
> Degh Maryada we should respect his views. He has
> written its a puratan maryada to do Kirpan Bhet
> after Ardas. He mentions this puratan maryada
> still takes place today at the histroical
> GUrdwaara SRi Harmandir Sahib. I too do not agree
> with everything GIani Ji has said about Degh
> Maryada but to say the book serves no purpose of
> Sikhi Sidhak is uncalled for. GIani Ji has done an
> excellent job in discussing panthic maryada of
> Degh. The reason why there are so many differences
> in Sikhi is because everyone is following their
> own maryada. People are inventing maryadas and
> calling them purtatan maryada. He mentions how
> Taksal has invented the maryada of sprinkling
> water ahead of degh when bringing into the Darbar
> Sahib, but nowhere in history is this mentioned
> even though Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji mentions this
> is mentioned in Sau Sakhi and other text. But this
> maryada is not mentioned anywhere. There is so
> much disunity and confusion on maryada because
> everyone is inventing their own maryada. GIanI
> Harbans SIngh Ji has done an excellent job in
> propagating maryada according to Gurmat and SIkh
> history.

I think this picture is from the 1800s is that PUratan enough for you SUkhdeep SIngH. Ask your Kala AfganA frieNds maYbe they caN verifY it for yoU.

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Singho, GIani Ji has done the most research on Degh Maryada we should respect his views. He has written its a puratan maryada to do Kirpan Bhet after Ardas.

Agree that we should respect his views but Daas doesn't agree with your comments especially when you say that, "He has written its a puratan maryada to do Kirpan Bhet after Ardas". There is nothing Puratan he wrote or referenced to about Kirpaan Bhet during Ardaas. In fact in chapter "Kirpaan Bhet Nirnai" he purely gave his opinions that it doesn't look nice to have Kirpaan Bhet during Ardaas because it diverts Sangat's attention to Sevadaar and Guru Sahib can't eat during Ardaas. Those are his basic reasons to deny Kirpaan Bhet during Ardaas.

The only Puratan reference he gave is Feb 23, 1974 Dharam Parchaar Committe's reply to an inquiry. Do you think 1974 resolution is Puratan than Gurmat Maryada followed by Jatha and few other orgs which is more than centuries old? If you believe so then its your opinion but not a fact.

Anyway Giani Jee has given good references and opinions in his book which are admirable too.

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... to say the book serves no purpose of Sikhi Sidhak is uncalled for.

First of all I didn't say that whole book serves no purpose, secondly Daas is not from ones who denies everything from opposing views. As I said earlier and say again this book has good points like Sarabloh and Soochamta which are not seen in many orgs including SGPC. This book still serves purpose for those category of Sikhs to improve; however, comments made against the Bhog and Kirpaan Bhet during Ardaas serves no purpose. Hence Daas differs with his opinions strongly.

Bottom line is one must follow and adhere to Gurmat Maryada of Degh to see the difference not mere talk, that's all I can say.

Sukhdeep Singh regarding your claim that eating too much Degh is a bad and greedy thing please read this excerpt from Rangle Sajjan:

Lol gagan singh I asked my Kala Afghan friends and they said this picture cant be from the 1800s. The person in the background is wearing shirt and pants and the child is wearing a New York style puff jackets.. This picture is from the 21st century and I think its from Toronto.

Sprinkling water was a practical step taken to prevent dust from flying up and was/is also used before Guru Granth Sahib Ji is taken from one place to another, not just for Degh. If we stop using this approach in countries where we think the roads are clean or dust does not accumulate as much then in the future the practice may also stop where its really required. Ideally the whole floor should be washed but this is not always possible in the west, especially inside buildings.

When I was younger we would ask for 'GerRaa' gupha of parshad if one felt like having more Degh or 'Swaiyaa' for less. These were common terms used by Singhs in the 70s. Ok I dont class the 70's as puratan but the thinking behind these terms must have originated much earlier and it was acceptable practice.

If we have faith in Degh which is 'magical' and like Kulbir Singh Ji mentioned, it does not have an adverse impact to our health. New age health freaks believe in this nonsensical rubbish. If it clogged up the arteries then Guru Sahib would have given us a warning not to consume too much or the ingredients would have been different.

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Sprinkling water was a practical step taken to prevent dust from flying up and was/is also used before Guru Granth Sahib Ji is taken from one place to another, not just for Degh. If we stop using this approach in countries where we think the roads are clean or dust does not accumulate as much then in the future the practice may also stop where its really required. Ideally the whole floor should be washed but this is not always possible in the west, especially inside buildings.

How does sprinkling a little water keep the dust on the ground from rising? If this maryada is meant to keep dust from ascending then why is it sprinkled in the darbar sahib where their is carpet? The truth of the matter is this maryada is not puratan its a new age maryada. Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji mentions the maryada is mentioned in Sau Sakhi, but its not . Nor is this maryada mentioned in any of the existing rehatname. If so, please provide the reference.

We are sure Giani Ji had good intentions by propagating this maryada. Perhaps he thought it gave degh respect? But the problem is people get confused. We have even seen some people matha tekh to Degh when they see people sprinkling water around it. In his book, " Gurbani Paath Darpan" Giani Ji mentions many good rehats which have been forgotten , but at the same time many of the rehats he claims as puratan are simple innovations of the 20th century. Why Taksal regards the book as the A.B.C guide to Gurmat is beyond my understanding. Many of the things mentioned in this book where in direct violation and contradiction of panthic maryada. Like reading any book we should accept what is in accordance to Gurmat and discard the rest.

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If we have faith in Degh which is 'magical' and like Kulbir Singh Ji mentioned, it does not have an adverse impact to our health. New age health freaks believe in this nonsensical rubbish. If it clogged up the arteries then Guru Sahib would have given us a warning not to consume too much or the ingredients would have been different.

Puratan Singhs had a strong physique they were extremely healthy due to their hard work and training in arms. Extra degh never damaged their health. However ,there are cases where Singhs ate to much degh they got sick. I have mentioned this sakhi in one of the above post. Doctors say all kinds of things nowadays. But if we eat healthy and exercise regularly then eating the degh which is given to us does not become a problem. Nowadays people ask for less deg because of their high cholesterol or heart problems, but if they live a healthy lifestyle then cholesterol or heart problems will not be an issue nor will eating the degh given to us.

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When I was younger we would ask for 'GerRaa' gupha of parshad if one felt like having more Degh or 'Swaiyaa' for less. These were common terms used by Singhs in the 70s. Ok I dont class the 70's as puratan but the thinking behind these terms must have originated much earlier and it was acceptable practice.

When I was younger we were taught to accept what was given and not to ask for more or less. Ever since I can remember doing langar seva as a child I cant remember a Singh asking for more or less. The first time I heard people asking for Swaiyaa was a couple years ago at a Gurdwara I use to live by. During Bandi Chhor Divas many Hindus use to attend this Gurdwara to celebrate Diwali. During langar or giving out of degh they would indicate whether they want more or less. But Gursikhs now that Langar and Degh are examples of equality and as a result they never ask for more or less in sangat. If a person is too full or has already ate then there are some obvious exceptions, but for the most part we should accept what is given.