Akhand Path Maryada?

I was wondering for the past few days what maryada for concluding a akhand path was practiced during guru sahib's time?
The gurdwara that I regularly attend practice reading full Japji Sahib and full Anand Sahib, but when I attended an Akhand Path at another gurdwara they just read 6 pauri Anand Sahib. I was shocked but when I read the Akal Takht Rehat Maryada it says reading of 6 Pauri Anand Sahib should happen. So I was wondering what was practiced in Guru Sahib's time and what was practiced in Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh's Time?

at darbar sahib they do six pauri anand sahib after conclusion of akhand paath as well.

now i'm also curious about this!

-------------------------------------And some of singhs do Poora Anand in the evening with Sodar, always. -------------------I am not talking about Sri Akhand Path.

Many years ago, we inquired from many Gursikhs of Bhai Sahib's times to find out how Bhog of Siri Akhand Paath Sahib should be done and we were told that one should do Kirtan of 6 Pauris (1st 5 and the last one) immediately after Mundavani. This is what Singhs here in Toronto do.

Normally Siri Jap jee Sahib is done in case of completion of a Sehaj Paath and if a new Sehaj Paath is to be started right away.

The above is based on maryada followed in the Akhand Kirtani Jatha. Other Jathas e.g. Jatha Bhindran or others may follow different maryada e.g. doing Siri Jap jee Sahib or Siri Anand Sahib. There is no harm in doing this either as Siri Guru jee won't be offended if one read more Baani.

Rest Bhai, Guru Sahib knows.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Since the thread is here, was wondering why does a Sri Akhand Path Sahib has to end in 48 hours?
Also, when was the first Sri Akhand Path Sahib of Sri Guru ji was done?
(Chatrik remembers reading somewhere that it was done at Nanded before 10t SatGuroo Nanak gave gurgadhi to SatGuroo Granth Sahib ji.Can anyone verify this? )

Chota veer

Quote

Since the thread is here, was wondering why does a Sri Akhand Path Sahib has to end in 48 hours?

I don't think there is any compulsion to end it in 48 hours. If it ends few hours before or after, it does not make a difference. Baba Naranjan Singh who was the father of famous scholar Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, did whole of Siri Akhand Paath Sahib, all by himself, in one sitting, in 24 hours. Many other Gurmukhs are said to have done this including Giani Harbans Singh Nirnaikaar who also did complete translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

Quote

Also, when was the first Sri Akhand Path Sahib of Sri Guru ji was done?

Some people claim that the tradition of Siri Akhand Paath Sahib was started by Buddha Dal during the 1700s when Singhs used to rarely get a chance to have Darshan of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee and when they did get Darshan, they used to be so hungry that they used to do Siri Akhand Paath Sahib. While it is true that they used to do Siri Akhand Paath Sahibs but it does not seem correct that there were no Siri Akhand Paath Sahibs during the times of Guru Sahibaan. There are references in Gurpratap Sooraj Prakash Granth and other tradition that Siri Akhand Paath Sahibs were done during the times of Guru Sahibaan. Siri Akhand Paath Sahib is too important a tradition to have not been started by Guru Sahib. It must have come from Guru Sahib.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Since the thread is here, was wondering why does
> a Sri Akhand Path Sahib has to end in 48 hours?
>
>
> I don't think there is any compulsion to end it in
> 48 hours. If it ends few hours before or after, it
> does not make a difference. Baba Naranjan Singh
> who was the father of famous scholar Bhai Kahn
> Singh Nabha, did whole of Siri Akhand Paath Sahib,
> all by himself, in one sitting, in 24 hours. Many
> other Gurmukhs are said to have done this
> including Giani Harbans Singh Nirnaikaar who also
> did complete translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib
> jee.
>
>
> Also, when was the first Sri Akhand Path Sahib of
> Sri Guru ji was done?
>
>
> Some people claim that the tradition of Siri
> Akhand Paath Sahib was started by Buddha Dal
> during the 1700s when Singhs used to rarely get a
> chance to have Darshan of Siri Guru Granth Sahib
> jee and when they did get Darshan, they used to be
> so hungry that they used to do Siri Akhand Paath
> Sahib. While it is true that they used to do Siri
> Akhand Paath Sahibs but it does not seem correct
> that there were no Siri Akhand Paath Sahibs during
> the times of Guru Sahibaan. There are references
> in Gurpratap Sooraj Prakash Granth and other
> tradition that Siri Akhand Paath Sahibs were done
> during the times of Guru Sahibaan. Siri Akhand
> Paath Sahib is too important a tradition to have
> not been started by Guru Sahib. It must have come
> from Guru Sahib.
>
> Daas,
> Kulbir Singh


Hanji bhajee Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale said there was an akhaand paat done in Guru Gobind Singh Jee's time.
the maryada that we use here is that after the bhog we do japjee sahib and full anand sahib and sometimes japjee sahib and 6 paureea of anand sahib

and bhai sahib do you guys do japjee sahib alongside akhand paat sahib as well?

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Since the thread is here, was wondering why does
> a Sri Akhand Path Sahib has to end in 48 hours?
>
>
> I don't think there is any compulsion to end it in
> 48 hours. If it ends few hours before or after, it
> does not make a difference. Baba Naranjan Singh
> who was the father of famous scholar Bhai Kahn
> Singh Nabha, did whole of Siri Akhand Paath Sahib,
> all by himself, in one sitting, in 24 hours. Many
> other Gurmukhs are said to have done this
> including Giani Harbans Singh Nirnaikaar who also
> did complete translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib
> jee.
>
>
> Also, when was the first Sri Akhand Path Sahib of
> Sri Guru ji was done?
>
>
> Some people claim that the tradition of Siri
> Akhand Paath Sahib was started by Buddha Dal
> during the 1700s when Singhs used to rarely get a
> chance to have Darshan of Siri Guru Granth Sahib
> jee and when they did get Darshan, they used to be
> so hungry that they used to do Siri Akhand Paath
> Sahib. While it is true that they used to do Siri
> Akhand Paath Sahibs but it does not seem correct
> that there were no Siri Akhand Paath Sahibs during
> the times of Guru Sahibaan. There are references
> in Gurpratap Sooraj Prakash Granth and other
> tradition that Siri Akhand Paath Sahibs were done
> during the times of Guru Sahibaan. Siri Akhand
> Paath Sahib is too important a tradition to have
> not been started by Guru Sahib. It must have come
> from Guru Sahib.
>
> Daas,
> Kulbir Singh

Taken from Say Kinayhi-aa, Baba Harnam Singh page 312-313:

Then it was prayed in the feet in the feet of the emperor "O Master of the poor! Is it essential to complete the path of Sri Akhand Path Sahib in 48 hours? Is the tradition not changed if more or less time is involved? Please do favor and guide properly."
.... Only Baba Ji,Gaini Ji and one more Singh was belessed with this vision (of Guru Ji)
Baba Ji told the sangat, the great Guru has ordered that the tradition of Akhand Path Sahib is not fixed by him . It has been established by the Gursikhs themselves.... The time limit of 48 hours is not a ban, it may be increased or decreased.

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>While it is true that they used to do Siri
> Akhand Paath Sahibs but it does not seem correct
> that there were no Siri Akhand Paath Sahibs during
> the times of Guru Sahibaan. There are references
> in Gurpratap Sooraj Prakash Granth and other
> tradition that Siri Akhand Paath Sahibs were done
> during the times of Guru Sahibaan. Siri Akhand
> Paath Sahib is too important a tradition to have
> not been started by Guru Sahib. It must have come
> from Guru Sahib.

I have read contrary to this in some history books, they said only Sehaj Paaths were done in those times, and the tradition of Akhand Paaths was started afterwards.

I read that Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib got Sikhs to do an Akhand Sahib of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee when Baba Buddha Jee had had passed away...I doubt it was done in 48 hours as Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Maharaj Jee's Bani wasn't added yet..

dear "amar" jee

can u please cite the source where you read the information you provided us with ?

we recently had an akhand paath sahib in toronto for the vaisakhee program it lasted approximately 50 hours.

As Tanvir Singh Veer ji, is asking for the source of information; I also need that. Some people generally speak against the maryada of Sri Akhand Path Sahib and do not get convinced that Guru Sahib Himself started the maryada.

I wouln't be able post the source because I've only heard it through Katha many times at the local gurdwara sahib.

daas was wondering wether singhs in toronto do ardaas at madh bhog (middle point of sri akhaand paat sahib)?

Quote

daas was wondering wether singhs in toronto do ardaas at madh bhog (middle point of sri akhaand paat sahib)?

Haanji.

Kulbir Singh

teek ya

and is sree japu jee sahib also done next to akhaand paat sahib

Quote

and is sree japu jee sahib also done next to akhaand paat sahib

Currently Siri Jap jee Sahib is not done along with Siri Akhand Paath Sahib.

Kulbir Singh

is there a reason or just not enough sevadars?

Not sure of the reason. In rare cases some Singhs in India do so.

Bhai Sahib has mentioned of a Siri Akhand Paath Sahib done for the salvation of a ghost, in which Siri Jap jee Sahib paath too was done. But we also hear of times during times of Bhai Sahib when Siri Jap jee Sahibs were not done. It looks like though this practice of holding Siri Jap jee Sahibs was done during olden times, it was not strictly adhered to.

Kulbir Singh

generally, AJK follows panthic rehet maryada, which says no paath is to be recited during akhand paath sahib.

from the panthic rehet maryada:

Quote

c. Placing a pitcher, ceremonial clarified-butter-fed lamp, coconut, etc. around, during the course of the uninterrupted or any other reading of Guru Granth Sahib, or reading of other Scriptural texts side by side with or in the course of such reading is contrary to the gurmat (Guru's way).

1kaur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> generally, AJK follows panthic rehet maryada,
> which says no paath is to be recited during akhand
> paath sahib.
>
> from the panthic rehet maryada:
>
>
> c. Placing a pitcher, ceremonial
> clarified-butter-fed lamp, coconut, etc. around,
> during the course of the uninterrupted or any
> other reading of Guru Granth Sahib, or reading of
> other Scriptural texts side by side with or in
> the course of such reading is contrary to the
> gurmat (Guru's way).


haha acha teek ya jee
but this maryada was started by guru jee so challo

gsingh Wrote:
-
> haha acha teek ya jee
> but this maryada was started by guru jee so challo


how do you know this? i have read every puratan maryada and they all contradict each other on these small details. all of them have questions of authenticity, some being written a hundred years after guru sahib, some, like bhai nand lal ji's maryada (considered the most authentic) were written by two different hands! and some contradict gurmat in very obvious ways (caste discrimination, discrimination against women, meat eating, etc).

the truth is, we know very little about how things were really done in guru sahib's time, because sikhs of the time didn't write things down. they passed them down orally and we all know how things can be distorted or embellished.

if a puratan maryada says "kill a muslim whenever you see them", do you really kill every muslim you see? is it inline with gurmat to do so?

the panthic rehet maryada made an effort to address this, removing hindu rituals and comparing each aspect to gurmat. only those which meshed with gurmat were accepted. representatives from every panthic body were present.

with a few exceptions, AKJ follows this panthic maryada, because we believe in the concept of guru khalsa panth. the exceptions are all places where we simply add more to the maryada, rather than ignoring or changing completely. AKJ does not publish it's own rehet maryada for this reason, we are part of the sikh panth and we accept what guru khalsa panth has laid down as the minimum.

i'm sorry if i have offended.

1kaur Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gsingh Wrote:
> -
> > haha acha teek ya jee
> > but this maryada was started by guru jee so
> challo
>
>
> how do you know this? i have read every puratan
> maryada and they all contradict each other on
> these small details. all of them have questions
> of authenticity, some being written a hundred
> years after guru sahib, some, like bhai nand lal
> ji's maryada (considered the most authentic) were
> written by two different hands! and some
> contradict gurmat in very obvious ways (caste
> discrimination, discrimination against women, meat
> eating, etc).
>
> the truth is, we know very little about how things
> were really done in guru sahib's time, because
> sikhs of the time didn't write things down. they
> passed them down orally and we all know how things
> can be distorted or embellished.
>
> if a puratan maryada says "kill a muslim whenever
> you see them", do you really kill every muslim you
> see? is it inline with gurmat to do so?
>
> the panthic rehet maryada made an effort to
> address this, removing hindu rituals and comparing
> each aspect to gurmat. only those which meshed
> with gurmat were accepted. representatives from
> every panthic body were present.
>
> with a few exceptions, AKJ follows this panthic
> maryada, because we believe in the concept of guru
> khalsa panth. the exceptions are all places where
> we simply add more to the maryada, rather than
> ignoring or changing completely. AKJ does not
> publish it's own rehet maryada for this reason, we
> are part of the sikh panth and we accept what guru
> khalsa panth has laid down as the minimum.
>
> i'm sorry if i have offended.


REhatnameys written by Bhai Nand Lal and Bhai Daya Singh Ji were written by those respected Singhs. How can anybody read these and say they are not Gurbani. The only thing that has happened is Bhai Nand Lals rehatnama has been modified from keski to kes. The British changed this.

In regards to kill Muslims you have to take into historical account and read between the lines. The rehatnameys is referring to the Turks, and Pathan imperialist who were butchering the masses.

There is a rehatnama that says "dont drink water from women" people read this and question without thinking about the historical context. In the old days, SInghs would live in the jungles for days without food or water when some of them got captured they would be bribed for information. They would be taken to the the sultans harim and seduced by the sultans maids ( prostitutes) with numerous things like drink and food. Thats why in numerous rehatnamey Guru Sahib anybody who eats the meat of the Turk will go to hell, and anybody that uses hukka will go to hell. We need to study each rehatnama before just dismissing it. The ancient rehatnamey are a great way to understand our history and the conditions of those times. Without rehatnamey like Bhai Daya Singh Ji how would we ever know about Sarab Loh Bibek? Many of the reforms Bhai Randhir Singh Ji bought back to Sikhi can be traced back to the puratan rehatnamey. Once we start question the rehatnamey we only get weaker in our Sikhi.

i thought the akj did publsih there own maryada?
i have a rehat maryada at home and it says the akj on it
i also have another one and it says khalsa rehat maryada by the akj



the thing is the two most puratan maryadas the nihung singh and taksal have very few differences just small ones here and there, but for the most part they are similar.

Bhai Daya Singh ji rehetnama has been recorded in at least four different versions. it is not knows which is the original. it seems clear that it has been corrupted, but it;s hard to know which parts are corruption and which are original. we need to study the origins of the various puratan rehetnamay before deciding we believe them in their entirity. i really like Bhai Daya SIngh ji's description of Guru Khalsa Panth, as well as his description of "akalis" (which includes a section on sarbloh bibek). but other things do not seem to mesh with other rehetnamay of the time, or with gurmat.

some examples from rehetnama of bhai daya singh ji:

from his discription of amrit sanchar:

varuna gave the water of amrit
indra gave patasay
yamraj gave sarabloh bata
kal gave karad (sarbloh knife - maybe used as khanda here? or in place of kirpaan as kakkar, it's unclear)
chandi gave kes
hanuman gave kachhera

he also says only five paurees of anand sahib should be read.

for prashad, vishnu gave sugar, mahadev gave atta, and brahma gave ghio.

other life:

if the foot washings of a singh is poured over a dead body, yam backs away and the person achieves liberation.

carry the karad (kirpaan) in the turban

wear clothes only in the following colors: dark grey, white, yellow, green.

do not apply oil to your kes.

let clothing touch sri guru granth sahib ji before wearing it.

only halal (turak kaa maas) is forbidden, other meat is ok (later discription also forbids the meat of the domestic pig, shikar is not mentioned)

anyone who slanders guru sahib should be beheaded.

a khatri should only ride a male horse, never a mare.

i'll analyze the writings of bhai nand lal at a later date. i believe strongly that bhai nand lal wrote directly what guru sahib said to him. however, manuscripts show different handwriting and even different writing styles. i'll post on that at a later time.

Quote
undefinedundefinedundefinedundefinedundefinedundefinedundefinedundefinedundefinedundefinedundefinedundefinedundefinedundefined
REhatnameys written by Bhai Nand Lal and Bhai Daya Singh Ji were written by those respected Singhs. How can anybody read these and say they are not Gurbani. The only thing that has happened is Bhai Nand Lals rehatnama has been modified from keski to kes. The British changed this.

Singh ji,
Are you aware of what you have just said?

Chota veer