peace talks with Taliban?

Kulbir Singh , if you want to waste your time bashing on Americans then by all means go ahead. I can say many things about Canadians but its no point.

Preetam SIngh you obviously dont know much about Taliban or Bin Laden. Bin Laden stayed in Afghanistan during two time periods. Once during the Cold War, second in 1996 when he was forced out of Sudan . During both times he lived and fought with the Taliban as a Taliban. There is no ethnic memberhship for the Taliban. Anyone can join not just Pushtan. Even an American by the name of John Walker joined the Taliban. I hope you and Kulbir SIngh get out of your igloo one day and perhaps read a book.

ਵਾਹ! ਵਾਹ! ਸੁਖਦੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀਓ! ਮਜ਼ਾ ਆ ਗਿਆ। ਕਦੇ ਕਦੇ ਮਿੱਠੇ ਨਾਲ ਤਿੱਖਾ ਵੀ ਖਾਣਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸੋ ਆਪ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਧੰਨਵਾਦ ਹੈ ਮਿਹਰਬਾਨ ਜੀ।

And Sir jee, I am not against America at all. It's true that Americans are quite ignorant about world in general and are full of themselves, but they are good people and a great nation. We very much respect their values like faith in God, justice, freedom etc. Their fight against the Islamic terrorism is quite justified. Having said that, it would be good if they did less meddling in the affairs of other nations. The world would have been a better world if the British and French had never stepped out of Europe and no colonization of other nations had taken place. Same way, it would have been good if the Americans had stayed out of the Middle East.

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During both times he lived and fought with the Taliban as a Taliban.

Forces from England have been fighting in Afghanistan along with the Americans and many times led by the Americans. Does this mean that English are American? It's quite probable that many ignorant Afghanis think that English or Canadians are Americans but we know how wrong this thought is. Same way, it's an error to think that Bin Laden was a Taliban. Bin Laden and many others from Central Asia have been fighting along with the Taliban but that did not make them Taliban. Bin Laden was the leader of Al-Qaida and not Taliban. Taliban leadership is exclusively Pashtun and so are the most fighters. So that makes Taliban a predominantly Pashtun based organization subscribing to the Deobandi brand of Islam.

Kulbir Singh

Ignorant Americans.... Vaheguru.

Osama Bin Laden was a Mujahideen when he went to Afghanistan during the cold war but was never ever part of Taliban. Even when he went to Afghanistan for refuge in 1996 he was originally invited there by Massoud, the leader of the Northern Alliance and the number one enemy of the Taliban. He was given refuge by the Taliban because of their Pashtun culture and their respect for anyone who had fought alongside Afghanistan against the USSR. When the Americans came to get Osama, Mullah Omar and the taliban protected the Al Queda because it is part of their culture to fight for their guests.

The Taliban only came into formation in 1994 under the leadership of Mullah Omar, before that point there was many different groups of Mujahideen but there was no group called taliban.

It's funny that you are telling us to read a book when you can't even name one scholarly article never mind a book that supports your claim that Osama Bin Laden was part of Taliban. You just sound like every other ignorant American who sees someone from Middle east and yells taliban. It's quite sad. Even a simple google search will give correct information on this issue, yet you are just relying on pseudo-news like Fox network for your facts.

And for your information igloo season is over, the snow has melted so us Canadians are waiting for the snow to come back so we can build our Igloo homes again. Guru Sahib kirpa karan.

Preetam Singh

Preetam Singh the information is coming from a well researched professors as I have previously mentioned. His name is As'Ad Abukhalil and he was written a few books on the matter. In addition he has appeared on many media outlets including Candian media. Your statement that Bin Laden was invitied by the Northern Alliance is ridiculous. The Taliban killed the Northern Alliance eader because he was considered as too moderate in his religious views and his friendly relations with the western media ( dealing with the infidels) was looked down upon. BIn laden would never associate with someone with such tolerant views. Bin laden was originally sent to Afghanistan to spread Wahabi ideology. The taliban grew emerged out of frustration from refugess and these refugees studies Wahamism in Pakkistan Madrasas funded by the Saudi government. BIn laden returned to Afghanistan a second time when he was banned from Saudi Arabia and Sudan. He looked down on the Saudis as he believed their version of Wahabism was too watered down and thus he wanted to preach a more extereme version. So too say he was invited by the moderate Northern Alliance doesnt make sense.


Sad to hear your igloo has melted. I hope your Dera has an AC

Sukhdeep Singh Jee, before reading some of the posts here, I did not know much about Wahabism, Deobandi, Taliban etc that is being discussed here. But after searching the internet for the last 2 days, I following information is what I have come to know:

-Afghan Sikhs were not involved in the anglo Afghan wars as fighting against the British. They were/are mainly a trading class in Afghanistan. Their numbers are way too small to get involved in any fighting.

-Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaida are not part of the Taliban. They are two separate entities.

-Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaida are followers of Wahabbism.

-Mullah Omar and the Taliban are followers of Deobandi Islam.

-Mullah Omar and Taliban are helpers of Al Qaida. Plus it is part of the Pathan code of honour to defend a guest which is also partly why Mullah Omar did not hand over Osama Bin Laden to the Americans.

-The Taliban of Mullah Omar is overwhelmingly of Pasthun(Pathan) ethnicity.

This information is all over the internet. Do a quick search and see for yourself.

Sukhdeep Singh jee, I am not doubting the professor, only your ability to retain factual information.

Please check your notes again, you are just embarrassing yourself. I challenge you to research the issue again because you seem to have forgotten what your professor actually taught.

I have read work by As'Ad Abukhalil for my Islamic History classes and no where does he ever say that Osama Bin Laden is part of Taliban. Yes they did work together and had a very good relationship, but al-Qaeda and Taliban are distinct groups.

Preetam Singh

R Singh Jee, the internet is not a suitable tool for research.

Yes its true the majoirty of Taliban are of Pushtan since Taliban is widely based in Afghnistan and Pushtan are the biggest ethnic group in this region. But there are people from other ethnic groups which joined the taliban to kill Americans. The Taliban was founded by Mullah Omar but it grew due to the frustration of Refugess who blamed American for all their problems. Once again the information I have obtained is from one of my professors who is a leading expert in this field.

Preetam SIngh , seriously you dont have a clue what your talking about you keep switching your views back and forth. First you say Bin Laden worked with the Northrn Alliance now you are saying he formed ties with the Taliban who were arch rivals of the Taliban. BIn Laden would have never worked with the Northern Alliance. Northern Alliance wanted aide from the US to battle the Taliban which Bin laden was a part of. The biggest mistake the US made was not supporting the Northern Alliance when they had the chance.

I am done with this topic as I dont see how it relates to Gurmat. I dont got time for people who like to bash America behind their computers. You probably have never been here but all of sudden you are en expert on how Americans are. Shabash Singho way to exemplfy Gurmat virtues.

Firstly, I'm glad I have an outlet to finally discus my hate for American foreign policy and American ignorance. Now that is a very Risky thing to say since the American government is most likely spying in on my computer without my permission, as well as reading all my conversations. I'm sorry Big brother Ji, but it must be said.

Really are we arguing if Bin Laden is Taliban!? It's this kind of thinking that has kept America in this unjust war for so long and in the process crippled the U.S economy. The original war in Afghanistan was to rid Afghanistan of Al-Queda and kill Osama Bin Laden. But shortly after Bush and Donald Rumsfeld both stated that Bin Laden wasn't there main target. Really! Than who exactly is this war against. Currently Al-Queda is almost non-exisent in Afghanistan and the war is against the Taliban. But the Taliban had nothing to do with the attacks on 9/11!. I don't want to get into the depths of it because I could go on forever, but this a war that is only being fought because a few Big companies, Defence Contractors mostly, are getting upwards to TRILLIONS of dollars as each day passes in war. And the general public has almost no clue whats going because the Media is so biased, and there are hardly any reporters in the States that would dare speak against the government.


You could possibly argue that America is the "lesser" of the evils. I believe that if China, Russia or Taliban even, "ruled" the world than that would be scarier than having America in charge, but America is FAR from being a good leader, in fact, America has gotten away with things that if other countries had/were doing, they be labelled as genocide or terrorism. Here are a few things

1) The Iraq war was an unjust war that America had no right fighting. Even without the permission of the UN they decided to bomb away. What was the result. Thousands of US troops dead, and over 300,000 (the most liberal estimate) Iraqi civilians dead. and for what? Suddam was taken out of power, only to create a civil war in Iraq, and not decrese, but INCREASE the number of terrorist in the region, and across the globe. Here the US is guilty of Genocide

2) The new Drone Strike program is absolutely ludicrous. Unmanned drones are flown to countries where suspected terrorists reside and used to drop bombs. The problem? Im not sure exactly but its close to 99% of the causalities have been innocent civilians. The criteria the government uses to bomb an area is if there are "military" aged males residing there meaning they give authority to drop bombs anytime they see males between 18-60 years of age, and 'look' like their terrorists. Also a process called "double taps" is used, where after the bomb is dropped, another bomb is dropped when responders come to aid of the victims who have been bombed. These responders are mostly innocent children and civilians coming to help those who have died/injured. This is something that is NEVER reported in American media and people are lead to believe that Drones are only used to kill proven terrorists. Here the government is guilty of terrorism.

I could go on and on, about failed foreign policy, but I'll leave it at that. In conclusion, America needs to stop getting in the affairs of other
countries to spread so called democracy and liberty. The more time they spend in Afghanistan, the more mistakes will be made, and this war has and will continue to increase the number of terrorists not decrease it. Up to 90% of Aghanis don't even know what 9/11 and they only think US is in their country as occupiers. Now imagine every time an innocent child is killed in battle, or someone innocent persons house is blown up by American troops, what will this do? This will only cause more hate towards America and cause more people to become extremists. I know if someone occupied my country, and killed my family, even if by accident, I would make it my goal in life to make sure I got my revenge. And that's exactly whats happening in Afghanistan. The US should have left Afghanistan a long time ago. If America itself is in shambles than what would they know about building other countries.

ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਧਾ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਦਸੇ ਰਾਹੈ ਸਭਸੁ ਮੁਹਾਏ ਸਾਥੈ

I wonder how would US react if supposing China or India conducts a drone attack inside US territory targeting their set of wanted people. In fact somebody should actually do it.

Over all I don't think the Taliban are an innocent party. They gave refuge to OBL, but it was also their responsibility to make sure OBL behaves and not attack other countries while on their soil. When OBL attacked on 9/11, America was also fully justified in their attack. America on their part should not meddle in the affairs of the Muslim world either. America acts just as imperialistic today as Great Britain acted during the 19th century. Look at how they attacked Iraq for no reason killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. All estimates put the Iraqi death toll in the hundreds of thousands. That was pure Paap that American army did. American itself is a great nation, but it's foreign policy is evil. American imperialism vs radical Islam both deserved for each other. Just sad for the innocent people who have to suffer because of these two.