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beadbi of kesh during surgery?

Posted by Vaheguru 
we all know it is a bujhar kureth to remove hairs from the body. what happens in a case of surgery? one does all they can to make sure no kesh are removed but during a surgery in an emergency, kesh are removed. do we then become bujar kurethis? does this get treated as a bujhar kureth and one held guilty in amrit sinchar?

it is clear that someone who commits a bujhar kureth even after pesh isn't ever allowed to take sewa in punj piare. would this be the same case for someone who has kesh removed during surgery unwillingly, who then does pesh, will this person be acceptable for punj piare sewa in future?

please help me understand. vaheguru!!
I think a person who has to undergo an operation is treated differently from a person who deliberately commits a Bajjar Kurehit under the influence of Bikaars (evil tendencies). Regarding stopping a person from doing sewa in Punj Pyare, is up to the Punj Pyare. They judge it on case by case basis.

Kulbir Singh
Bhenji thanks for mentioning this topic. There is something I have been wondering lately which I hope somebody can answer.I was wondering what is the word for ex-communication in the puratan rehatnamey The only word I could find is ਪੱਕਾ ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ ( complete/fixed Tankhiya) which to me does not seem like ex-communication when taking certain rehatnamey into account.

Historically it has been understood that any AmritDhari who has committed a Bajjar Kurehit ( use intoxicants, premarital relations, eat meat, or disrespects one kes) is considered a ਪੱਕਾ ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ . I dont think it means such people are ex-communicated and no longer in the panth. Instead I think it means such people can no longer do prominent seva such as Panj Pyaarey di seva. My understanding is that ਪੱਕਾ ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ does not mean someone who is ex-communicated from the panth because everybody can be forgiven as Sikhi is a dharam of forgiveness.


When an AmritDhari commits a Bajjar kurehit they become a complete/fixed Tankhiya untill they retake Amrit. but when a Kesdhari breaks rehat they become a tankhiya such people are already exempt from doing Guru Jis seva.

ਕੇਸਧਾਰੀ ਛਾਤੀ ਦੇ ਰੋਮ ਲੁਹਾਏ, ਸੋ ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ

The KesDhari Sikh whom removes hair ( kes) from their chest is a tankhiya.


While it has been understood that an AmritDhari who removes their kes is a ਪੱਕਾ ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ , while a KesDhari whom removes their kes is a ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ. Anybody who commits a Bajjar Kurehit they are no longer considered AmritDhari and are classifies as Kesdhair as long as they start keeping their kes again. The Amrit which gives everlasting life ( mukhti) is no longer part of their being and they cant be regarded as AmritDhari.


Below are some more historical Rehatnamey recorded by Bhai Chaupa SIngh Ji which further indicate only an AmritDhair Sikh can be called an fixed tankhiya( ਪੱਕਾ ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ )





ਜੋ ਸਿਖ ਕੇਸਧਾਰੀ ਲੱਗੋਟ ਰਖੇ , ਸੋ ਭੀ ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ

The KesDhari Sikh who wears a loincloth is a apostate.

ਜੋ ਸਿਖ ਕਛ ਅੱਦਰਿ ਲੱਗੋਟ ਰਖੇ, ਸੋ ਪੱਕਾ ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ

That AmritDhari Sikh whom wears a loincloth under his Kashera is a permanent tankhiya.



Notice how the first rehatnama says a Kesdhari is considered a tankhiya for wearing a loincloth. Perhaps such people would be punished ( fine or something else) in order to redeem themselves.
In the next rehatnama Guru Sahib states that the AmritDhari Sikh whom wears a loincloth under his Kashera is a permanent tankhiya. When one becomes a permanent tankhiya they "break" their Amrit and cannot receive Mukhti after their death. Amrit cant break but I used the word break because I dont know any under word to use. The point is by becoming a permanent tankhiya one cannot receive Mukhti nor can one do Guru Jis Seva one starts over on the path and becomes a KesDhari. It takes time depending on the Individual to recover from such transgression. So does this mean if one removes their kes for medical reasons they are permanent tankhiya. Of course not one must pesh and re-take Amrit.

Perhaps many people believe that those whom pesh are unworthy to ever do Panj Pyaarey Seva. I do undertand their logic because it could be dangerous to allow someone to do such seva whom had weak beliefs in the past. Meaning it would be wrong to allow someone to do such seva whom broke their rehat under the influence of Panj Doot. Such people need to do much Bhagti so Panj Doot do not allow them to re-commit a Bajjar Kurehit.

when a Kurehiti KesDhari Sikh re-takes Amrit then they are given a new life and their old life is forgiven. Thats what Amrit is about forgiving a person of their old deeds, and allowing a person to get Mukhti. So I dont understand why a Gursikh who removes their kes for medical reasons would be exempt.

In the past there have been many Senior Gurmukhs whom have faced similar situation. Sant Kartar Singh Ji decided to keep his kes and pass his seva on to SANT Jarnail Singh Ji. Such a person is worth much respect since they chose their Sikhi over life, and still allowed their seva to continue.

Bhai Rama Singh Ji whom is also another respectful and honorable Gurmukh to a different route. Bhai Sahib to needed to have surgery upon the request of Sangat to continue his seva for the panth he decided not to leave this earth and decided to take surgery. Bhai Sahib also deserves much respect as deciding to postpone his stay at Sach Khand so he could do more seva to benefit the panth.

That being said I think it would be wrong to not allow a Gurmukh with the calibre of Bhai Rama SIngh Ji to not do seva if they have removed their kes for medical reasons. Because Bhai Sahibs goal in life as directed by Guru Sahib was to do Panj Pyaarey Seva and make sure Keski was given as rehat. This is what Bhai Sahib did exactly in respects of Guru Sahibs orders. He did not remove his kes for selfish reasons he only did so he could continue this seva at the request of Sadh Sangat.
Excellent post Sukhdeep Singh jeeo.

The way I have always interpreted the term ਪੱਕਾ ਤਨਖਾਹੀਆ was that such person is surely a Tankhaiya. The word ਪੱਕਾ can also mean surely. A person is a Tankhaiya or not a Tankhaiya and no one is a Pakka Tankhaiya (permanent) because any Tankhah can be pardoned by Guru Roop Punj Pyare. I could be wrong but this is what I have always understood about this term.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh
Bhai Sahib I too believe that no one is a Pakka Tankhaiya (permanent) as anybody and I mean anybody can be pardoned by Guru Roop Punj Pyare. My understanding is ex-communication should mean a kesdhari Sikh is not given Bana and cannot do certain seva/Gurmat Parchar ( kirtan, katha, etc) untill they are fully forgiven from the Panj Pyaarey. I dont see how ex-communication means a ban from Sikhi because everybody is allowed in the Gurdwara they just cant do Gurmat Parchar or certain seva if they are not Amrit Dhari.

Personally I feel its dangerous to ex-communicate people. The early Christians ( Catholics) ex-communicated those individuals who did not fully accept their ideas and now look at their dharma. Its completely divided with literally thousands of sects/groups. Same scenario will happen with Sikhi. I can only imagine Darshan creating his own sect and labeling it Sikhi the same way the Nirankaris and Radha Swamis do. Its best that apostates are not allowed to do certain seva instead of ex-communicating such people. This way the panth will stay as one.

So I was wondering when the word Ex- Communication entered into the Sikh Vocab?
Quote

Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:

> In the past there have been many Senior Gurmukhs
> whom have faced similar situation. Sant Kartar
> Singh Ji decided to keep his kes and pass his seva
> on to SANT Jarnail Singh Ji.


i think this is very admirable. however, in emergency situations, we don't always have the option to make this decision. what if we're unconscious? i'm not sure if we can make a legal and binding document in the united states that would allow us to refuse emergency treatment because of kes. there has been a lot of debate in this country about people who refuse treatment for religious reasons, and i'm not sure if this debate has ever been resolved satisfactorily. i will have to do more research.

this is a great topic, thanks for the original poster for bringing it up.
thanks for all your replies.
so if a person has kes/rom removed due to surgery, are they patit until they pesh? does it mean they can't cook food for gursikhs?
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