Printing Padchhed Bir is Maha-Manmatt: Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee

Printing Padchhed Birs is Maha-Manmatt

Original Text: ਕਈ ਪਦਛੇਦ ਟੀਕਾਕਾਰ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਲੋਗ ਆਪਣੀ ਮਨਮਤਿ ਨਾਲ ਮਨ ਦੀ ਮਤਿ ਦੇ ਅਰਥ ਅਰਥਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਮੂਲ ਬਾਣੀ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਟੀਕਿਆਂ ਵਿਚਿ “ਪੂਰਿਬਿ ਧਾਈ” ਪਾਠ ਛਾਪਦੇ ਛਪਾਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ। ਕਈ ਤਾਂ ਰਾਰੇ ਦੀ ਸਿਹਾਰੀ ਭੀ ਉਡਾਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਅਤੇ “ਪੂਰਬਿ ਧਾਈ” ਹੀ ਪਾਠ ਛਾਪਦੇ ਛਪਾਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ। ਏਸੇ ਕਰਕੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀਆਂ ਬੀੜਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਪਦਛੇਦ ਛਾਪਣਾ ਛਪਾਉਣਾ ਮਹਾਂ ਮਨਮਤਿ ਹੈ। ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਓਹ ਆਪੋ ਆਪਣੀ ਮਤਿ ਬੁਧੀ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਪਦਛੇਦ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ। ਤਾਂ ਤੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀ ਬੀੜ ਬਾਣੀ ਨੂੰ ਪਦਛੇਦ ਛਪਾਉਣਾ ਅਲਪੱਗ ਬੁੱਧੀ ਦੀ ਮਤਸਰਤਾਈ ਹੈ। ਹੋਰ ਭੀ ਕਈ ਕਾਰਨ ਹਨ ਜਿਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਬੋਹਿਥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੀਆਂ ਬੀੜਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਪਦਛੇਦ ਕਦੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਛਪਾਉਣਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ। (Gurbani diya Laga Maatra dee Vilakhanta; page 118)

Humble Translation: Some padchhed Gianis through their Manmatt (limited intelligence) print original Baani as “ਪੂਰਿਬਿ ਧਾਈ”. Some even delete the Sihaari of Raara and print it as “ਪੂਰਬਿ ਧਾਈ” . For this reason, to print Birs of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee as Padchhed is Maha-Manmatt (Supreme Manmatt). Because, they do padchhed according to their own intelligence. Therefore, to print the Bir of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee as Padchhed is the result of deficient intelligence. There are many other reasons too for not printing the Birs of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee, who is the ship of Gurbani, as Padchhed.

Vichaar: Bhai Sahib has come out very strongly against printing padchhed Birs of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee and has gone as far as calling this practice of printing padchhed Birs as “Maha Manmatt”. Bhai Sahib could have called this practice simply Manmatt but he chose to call it Maha Manmatt which means supreme Manmatt to make the point that this practice is extremely prohibited in Gurmat.

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee is not the only respected Mahapurakh to have opposed printing padchhed Birs but most Gurmukhs of that time opposed this practice but it seems like their opposition and pleas fell on deaf ears. Sant Kartar Singh Bhindranwale in one of his Katha declared that printing padchhed Birs is “ਅਤਿਅੰਤ ਮਨਾ ਹੈ” which means that printing padchhed Birs is extremely prohibited or strictly prohibited. It’s known that Sant Jawala Singh Harkhowal and Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale were very strictly opposed to printing padchhed Birs of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

In the light of aforementioned thoughts of Brahmgyani Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee and other Gurmukhs, it is clear that it’s very wrong to have padchhed Birs in place of True and Original Guru Sahib – Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Whichever Gursikh still supports or propagates padchhed Bir is doing it at his own peril and at the price of turning away from Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee (Laridaar Saroop).

Gurmat or Sikhi starts with Satguru and if a person has not met the True Guru, then he has also not yet become a Sikh. How can one be a Sikh if one has not met the Satguru yet.

It is requested that all Gursikhs who are serious about their spiritual well-being, give serious thought to this issue in the light of the aforementioned passage from Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee’s writing, and resolve to doing Kirtan Samagams, Siri Akhand Paath Sahibs, Amrit Sinchaar Samagams, Anand Karaj Samagams and all other Gurmat functions only in the Hazoori of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee and not padchhed Birs. If we all make concerted effort, it will go long way in establishing the true Guru – Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee – on the throne of Guruship.

Bhul Chuk dee Muafi jee.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Waheguru Je Ka Khalsa Waheguru je Ke Fateh

Great inspirational thoughts and the issue to make concerted effort ONLY the most depressing is where on one hand we promote this thought process and on the other hand say to all those Gurmukhs who have had amrit with Pad Shed version of SGGS to retake Amrit--the most damaging is that thought process as it will cause division.

Concerted effort without any arugment debate with extreme humility is the only way forward on this issue with careful monitoring as not to create division.

That's the first i've heard of symbols not getting printed right. Not good at all
SGPC should take strong note of the Matta which was passed.

Its important for everyone to learn santhiya starting from laardaar and not paad-chedd.

NS jeeo, whether people who take don't take Amrit in the Hazoori of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee should re-take Amrit or not, is a separate issue and should be discussed in a separate thread. Here the discussion is that printing padchhed Birs of Maharaj is wrong, and equally wrong is doing Prakash of padchhed in place of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

No one has right to implement their Manmatt on Gursikhs by printing padchhed Birs and then forcing Gursikhs to accept it as Satguru.

No one has the right to do opposite of what our Guru Sahib did - Guru Sahib wrote Bir in Laridaar; what right do todays so called Sikhs have to do the opposite i.e. print padchhed Birs?

No one has the right to belittle Gursikhs who oppose this Manmatt of printing padchhed Birs. True Gursikhs will not get cowed into accepting installation of Padchhed in place Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

Panth is not bigger than Satguru. What is Panth without Satguru? Desecration of Satguru jee cannot be allowed in the name of Ekta of Panth.

Sikhi starts with Satguru and ends on Vaheguru-Roopi-Satguru. Without Satguru, there is no Panth. Only those who are attached to the true Satguru - Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee - constitute Panth.

It was raw humility or Nimrata of Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee that He called himself a servant of Khalsa but the reality is that Satguru jee has the capability to create millions of Khalsa but on the other hand millions of Khalsa cannot create one Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee. This proves that Satguru is greatest of all.

The whole creation even if combined is less than Satguru jee. Therefore, Satguru jee cannot be ignored or desecrated in the name of so called Panthik unity.

Bhul chuk dee Maafi jee.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Please read this English translation by Jathdaar Bhai Raam Singh jee titled The Laardaar Saroop.
All arguments and points are made very well and impossible to argue.

The Laardaar Saroop - Bhai Ram Singh jee


Below are the two Gurmatta's passed by Akaal Takht Sahib which still stand today. The Gurmatta was passed after discussion with the whole of Panth's feeling on the issue.


“It is improper to do prakaash of (i.e. to make available for worship) Beerh (Volume of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) with separated words.”
(Resolution No. 2682, dated 21st January, 1945, Chief Khalsa Diwan.)


Beerh with separated words should not be printed, nor should the prakaash be done of Beerh with separated words.”
(Resolution No. 7, dated 1st January, 1950. Dharmik Committee of Shromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee.)


If anybody want the English book, I think it will be available at the AKJ Toronto Smagam if they are sent in time.

The printing of padchhed birs is very damaging in terms of ekta. It causes divisions and tensions, and the only way to end these problems is for Gursikhs to take a firm stance against the use of these birs in place of doing parkaash of Guru Sahib's larivaar saroop. It is unfortunate that the individuals who wish with sincere hearts not to disrespect Guru Sahib by accepting the use of padched birs have so little support, and are the ones who are attacked for "causing problems".

This is a bentee to all Gursikhs to help those of us who are suffering the pressures and ridicule from those who do not understand the absolute importance of doing seva of only Guru Sahib's larivaar saroop, by not supporting padched birs.

100% agree that we should make every attempt to recite bani from Laridaar saroops, however when getting or teaching santhiya, is that also learning from someone else's mat ?

Printing and doing parkash of Laridaar saroops are, I agree, important, but how do you address the practicality? In order to learn how to read correctly, normally we either refer to a pothi sahib which has pad-chead or we take santhiyaa.. are both these methods not using somone else's intelligence?

Vaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsa!
Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!!

Your points about Santhiya are reasonable, Jujhar Singh jeeo. When learning Santhiya, one should attempt to do it from Laridaar pothis of Gurbani and when required, it is fine to consult Gursikhs, Steeks (translations) or Padchhed pothis.

Kulbir Singh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Do we know exactly from which year pad shed copies of SGGS started to appear?

The first person to ever do pad-chhed, and this is a recorded fact, was Teja Singh Bhasaur who was ex-communicated by the Panth. His edition of pad-chhed was in printing when the presses were stopped at Raag GauRee (in the late 1940s I think). The entire Panth put a stop to this.

Wonderful post by Bhai Kulbir Singh. Vaheguroooo

Vista jee,

Could you please provide the source of this information It would be interesting to read about this? I was not aware that Teja Singh was the first to do padched.

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It is requested that all Gursikhs who are serious
> about their spiritual well-being, give serious
> thought to this issue in the light of the
> aforementioned passage from Bhai Sahib Randhir
> Singh jee’s writing, and resolve to doing Kirtan
> Samagams, Siri Akhand Paath Sahibs, Amrit Sinchaar
> Samagams, Anand Karaj Samagams and all other
> Gurmat functions only in the Hazoori of Siri Guru
> Granth Sahib jee and not padchhed Birs. If we all
> make concerted effort, it will go long way in
> establishing the true Guru – Siri Guru Granth
> Sahib jee – on the throne of Guruship.

With all due respect, I dont think this is a reasonable solution.
Their are two main reasons why Lareedar Saroop are not installed in GUrdwara sahibs.

1. Granthis come from India with no Gurmat qualifications including qualification
of reading Lareedar, thus they do Akkhand Paaths using Pad Ched saroop.

2. General Sangat are misinformed about issue of Lareedar, and have no literacy
in reading lareedar since nobody has taught them.

Now if every SIngh who knows how to read Lareedar boycotts these Gurdwara Sahibs
then how in the world will people start to learn how to read Lareedar. Instead of boycotting
the GUrdwara Sahibs they should be doing the seva of offering to teach
sangat how to read Lareedar. Only by teaching the masses will Sri Guru Granth sahib jee be reinstalled
on the throne. Really, how do we expect people to install lareedar saroop if they dont know
to read lareedar.

Since we are on the topic of Sri guru Granth sahib Ji I recently found
a nice article on Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji which I thought I should share.

[www.sikhreview.org]

Hmmm...i understand that Guru Granth Sahib should be in larrivaar, but does that mean Guru Granth Sahib should be hand written instead of printed in larrivaar?

or is that a different topic for a different thread..........

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Quick question.

Where could one get larivaar senchia from?

I think this would be useful for anyone interested in reading gurbani in larivaar as they know where they can get the senchia from (so lets try to get a list for Punjab, Canada, UK, US etc).

You could also get a list going for Panj Granthi Senchia etc.

In Canada Larreevar Sencheea are available at Satnam Trust.

IkOngkarVaheguroojikiFateh Dass recently obtained larivaar senchiya from bh chattar singh jiwan singh bookstore near Darbar Sahib. The bheta is Rs 650 for a set of two senchiyas.

Dass
Harleen Singh

This is just one of the many things from puratan rehit maryada that are still firmly adhered to in the Jatha. May Guru Sahib do His apaar kirpa on the entire Panth!

Apart from Damdami Taksal Singhs, Now SGPC has also got published these SENCHIES.

there are many mistakes in the SGGS saroops that are being printed these days one example would the use of the shabad ਅਨਦਿਨੁ. When ਅਨਦਿਨੁ is together the arth is supposed to be ik raas, when it is seperated ਅਨ ਦਿਨੁ the arth is supposed to be night and day.


For example, this pangti comes in shabad hazaray

ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸੇਵੀਐ; ਅੰਤਿ ਛਡਾਏ ਸੋਇ ||

Night and day, I serve my Lord and Master; He shall save me in the end. This is the basic arth that everyone does of this shabad, and it is the correct arth.

However, since ਅਨਦਿਨੁ is together the arth isnt correct. If you look at the shabad in red, this is what the arth is of that shabad " Ik raas I serve my Lord and Master; He shall save me in the end."

The Ik raas does not make anysense, so using ਅਨਦਿਨੁ in this form is inncorrect.

The right way to do pad ched for ਅਨਦਿਨੁ in this pangti would be ਅਨ ਦਿਨੁ.

ਅਨ ਦਿਨੁ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸੇਵੀਐ; ਅੰਤਿ ਛਡਾਏ ਸੋਇ ||
Night and day, I serve my Lord and Master; He shall save me in the end.

Now the above arth in green makes much more sense and does justice to the above pangti.

Another shabad where ਅਨਦਿਨੁ is used incorrectly is ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਤਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਲੇ; ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਬੁਧਿ ਬਿਚਰੈ ||

the arth to this that is done on sikhi to the max is correct "If He bestows His Glance of Grace, then I shall meet the True Guru; my discriminating intellect would contemplate Him, night and day."

However, the pad chedd of ਅਨਦਿਨੁ in this pangti is inncorrect, if we were to look at the arth closely it would actually be "If He bestows His Glance of Grace, then I shall meet the True Guru; my discriminating intellect would contemplate Him, ik raas."

and this arth would be totally inncorrect.

The correct form of this shabad would be ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਤਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਲੇ; ਅਨ ਦਿਨੁ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਬੁਧਿ ਬਿਚਰੈ ||
then this arth would be make sense

"If He bestows His Glance of Grace, then I shall meet the True Guru; my discriminating intellect would contemplate Him, night and day."



However, in some shabads in SGGS the shabad ਅਨਦਿਨੁ is supposed to be together b/c the arth of ਅਨਦਿਨੁ is supposed to be ਇੱਕ-ਰਸ ਲਗਾਤਾਰ and NOT night and day

For example, in the pangti ਅਨਦਿਨੁ is supposed to be together and not seperated inorder to have the correct arth.


ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ; ਘਰ ਹੀ ਮਹਿ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ||

the arth of this shabad is totally wrong on Sikhi to the max as you can see for yourself, "Night and day, they perform devotional worship, day and night, and in the home of the self, they remain detached."

Day and night is used twice, in a incorrect way.

The actual arth is supposed to be "they perform ਇੱਕ-ਰਸ ਲਗਾਤਾਰ devotional worship night and day. In the home of the self, they remain detached.

I could keep going on and on and present more example but i think that u guyz get the point.

In ending i would like to say that the saroops that are being printed and the ones that have been printed have A LOT of mistakes in the padh ched of certain shabads and thus the arths of those shabads are being done incorrectly, therefore it would be best to print saroops in laridivaar inorder to avoid these mistakes. However, in my opinion padd chedh saroops are greatly needed for santhya purposes.

Please Forgive me for anymistakes that i have made.....

daas,
Bhai

Bhai jeeo,

This was excellent Vichaar you have provided

Could you please provide information with respect to the following questions:

1. Does ਅਨ means Raat or night in Sanskrit or any other language. If not, then how can the meaning of night and day be derived from ਅਨਦਿਨੁ.

2. Doesn't ਅਨਦਿਨੁ mean everyday i.e. ik-rass, in all cases in Gurbani? If we do the meaning everyday, instead of day and night, in the Pankitis that you have provided, would they change the meanings in any way? But in any case, I like the distinction that you have provided provided we have evidence that ਅਨ means night.

It would be very interesting if we can make the distinction that you have suggested but kindly provide evidence that the word ਅਨ means night in Sanskrit.

Kulbir Singh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh!!

Quote:

NS jeeo, whether people who take don't take Amrit in the Hazoori of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee should re-take Amrit or not, is a separate issue and should be discussed in a separate thread. Here the discussion is that printing padchhed Birs of Maharaj is wrong, and equally wrong is doing Prakash of padchhed in place of Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

Totally understand Veer jeeo lets get back to the topic at hand, apologies for sidelining..

No one has right to implement their Manmatt on Gursikhs by printing padchhed Birs and then forcing Gursikhs to accept it as Satguru.

Quote

No one has the right to do opposite of what our Guru Sahib did - Guru Sahib wrote Bir in Laridaar; what right do todays so called Sikhs have to do the opposite i.e. print padchhed Birs?

No one has the right to belittle Gursikhs who oppose this Manmatt of printing padchhed Birs. True Gursikhs will not get cowed into accepting installation of Padchhed in place Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

Panth is not bigger than Satguru. What is Panth without Satguru? Desecration of Satguru jee cannot be allowed in the name of Ekta of Panth.

Understand your passions for laridaar saroop, equally important is practicality of bringing it about across Gurdwaras everywhere without friction isn't it?

Quote

The whole creation even if combined is less than Satguru jee. Therefore, Satguru jee cannot be ignored or desecrated in the name of so called Panthik unity.

Agreed Veer Kulbir Singh Jeeo, again how do we bring it about-- I feel there is a way it can be done, ever heard of the isralei MOSSAD - how much trust the group has on one another , hence so successful - even though our goal isn't to murder people like the MOSSAD do , however the trust and skill set they have is required of high importnace. In any battel one has to blend and send-- issue with us sikhs is 90% of the time when we blend - we get murdered by our own.....and cannot ever send.

furhter practical suggestions are required to bring about laridaar saroop in every Gurdwara,instead of diverting back to what is write and wrong within SGGS pad ched and Larrivaar. --