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Taqiya Vs Gurmat

Posted by Kulbir Singh

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Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 14, 2011 12:30PM

Taqiya is a concept in Shia Islam which allows the adherent to conceal or hide his religious identity to save his life. It even allows the adherent to consume Haram (prohibited) foods and do other anti-Islamic actions. It argues that life is very precious and as such should be protected at all costs. A similar concept is there in Sunni Islam also, called Iztraar (Idtirar) under which the adherent can lie and even eat Haram to conceal his identity. This concept of Taqiya enabled many minority sects of Islam to survive persecution for hundreds of years.

In Gurmat, there is no provision to violate Gurmat principles in order for a material gain or save one's life. If Gurmat allowed Taqiya, Bhai Taru Singh jee (Rabb na kare) could have accepted to have his hair cut, and later on get Pesh and become Sikh again. If Gurmat allowed Taqiya, then there would have been no need for Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee to suffer countless atrocities in order to keep his Dharma.

Gurmat values human life but the value of human life is not more valuable than the True Love for Guru Sahib. The Love for Vaheguru does not allow a Sikh to get into a profit-loss analysis. One of the basic qualities of a Bhagat or Aashiq is that he does not think with mind (Dimaagh) but thinks with heart (Dil).

Dimaagh cannot fathom the concept of love and Dil does not care about profits and losses. Dil is only interested in love. Therefore, a Gurmukh Aashiq cares only for his spiritual Love - Vaheguru.

A true Aashiq would never subscribe to Taqiya or similar practices because an Aashiq cannot turn his back to his beloved, even for a split second. So Taqiya is not for Gurmat Aashiqs.

Please don't consider the above post as against Islam or any other religion.

Kulbir Singh

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 14, 2011 01:35PM

yeh ishq nahi aasaan, bas itna samajh leejiye
yeh toh aag ka dariyaa hai, aur doob ke jaana hai

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 14, 2011 03:33PM

Good post! What about the nirmaley. They often change their appearance;
one cannot even get a simple understanding what religion the Nirmaley represent.
ex- [www.panthic.org]

These people are trying to change our history and identity. They are making
up their own history, and fabricating details about prominent GUrmukhs in our panth.
For example they say Shaheed BHai Mani SIngh Ji studied " vidhia" in benares, and he
wore long nirmala style, with goal dastar while he was jathedar of Sri Akal Takht. WHile shaheed bilas mentions BHai Sahib in BLue Bana with Dumalla, and through his Shaheedi we know he lived and died
for GUrmat Principles.

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 15, 2011 04:09AM

I hope people don't get angry with me for it, but I was wondering how the sakhi of dasmesh pita, being transported out of Moghul lines dressed as Uch da pir would fit into all of this? I have also heard that when faced with eating halal under compelling circumstances, some Singhs scored it with a kirpan to purify it.

I'm not saying that Sikhs are allowed to do the stuff that Muslims can under taqiya by the way, but trying to understand the implications of these oral traditions I've heard, if they are indeed true.

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 15, 2011 05:18PM

That Sakhi is not in accordance to Gurmat so it cant be accepted as True.
Guru Sahib has told his SInghs with a strong tone to never blend in with the
malechh for the purpose of staying alive so why in the world would he do it himself. Guru Sahib did actions
to show us through his own example. The sakhi is populary accepted but it
doesnt make it authentic.

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 16, 2011 11:34AM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Sukhdeep Singh Jeeo, So yoo think the saki shouldn't be accepted - and what about the asthaans built in Punjab of where the historic events took place are they also wrong and they built them so many decades ago because puraatan sikh just felt like doing it??

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 16, 2011 11:43AM

I maybe wrong but I can recall being told that it was Punj Singhs who gave Hukam to Guru Sahib to leave; therefore if that is the case then it does fall in line with Gurmat. GuruJee holds the punj in high importance therefore their hukam has to be followed through.

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 16, 2011 12:47PM

Moorakh Jeeo,

Panj Singhs dont give Hukums that contradict Gurmat. Everything they
do and say is in strict accordance to Gurmat . To tell Guru Sahib to look like a Muslim
saint is out of the question! Especially since Guru Sahib stresses throughout Rehatnamey
that GUrmukhs are to remain distinct in not only beliefs but physical appearance as well.

NS JEeo, when I was in Punjab I went to a Gurdwara which it turnes out they serve goat on Wednesdays. I later asked
my Uncle what was the reason. He replied " during Sri Guru Hargobind Sahibs time there was lots of goats in the area", and the locals complained to Guru Sahib that these goats get in the way. So Guru Sahib killed the goats and served them as langar". Today a Gurdwara Sahib stands based on this fake sakhi I have just told you. In Hazoor Sahib there are many Gurdwara Sahibs built and being built soley for economical reasons for the purpose of preying on gullible tourist.Gurdwra Sahibs are treated like businesses so its always good to have a nice story when building a business. We all know
what Gurdwara Sahibs have real history behind them and which ones have false history. The Shaheed Singhs always protect the Historical Gurdwara Sahibs and thus there is always divine feeling in such Gurdwara Sahibs.

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 16, 2011 01:25PM

Today I was at the local University and I saw a Muslim Bhenji wearing Hijab. Not only was she wearing Hijab but
she was dressed very modestly in traditional Islamic dress. Just by the way she dressed you knew she had high esteem about her identity and was a dharmic person. Seeing her reminded me of this post.

As Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji mentioned Muslims have permission
under certain circumstances to renounce this dress yet for most of the part they seem to striclty adhere to ISlamic appearance. On the other hand our women dont seem to value BaNa as much. I have never seen a Bhenji wearing BaNa at the university . In fact, sadly to say I rarely ever see them wearing Bana at the Gurdwara Sahib. Where have we gone wrong?

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 16, 2011 01:28PM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Thanks Sukhdeep Singh Jeeo I suppose a proper inventory of Gurdwara's is required i.e ones with Gurmat Maryada and ones against-- to bring about awareness in the community - probably for another thread though.

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 16, 2011 07:50PM

Guru Sahib is master of Babbar Akali Singhs who care not about death and have never yielded to aggressions of aggressors. Akali Singhs gave their lives but not Sikhi. It does not befit Guru Sahib's personality to dress up like a Muslim Pir, and hide or conceal his identity to avoid death. Our Guru Sahib is such who refused to leave Chamkaur dee Garhi without challenging the Mughals. He left Chamkaur by declaring that He was leaving and did not leave without issuing open challenge to the imperial army.

Gurbani says - Satgur vadda kar Salaaheeye - which means we must praise Guru Sahib as great. There is no fear of anything in Guru Sahib. Why would Guru Sahib disguise as a Muslim Pir to save His life? Historians have also written that Guru Sahib and Singhs ate Halal meat at that time. Can we believe such cowardly stories about our Guru Sahib who is the master of Babbar Akali Fearless Khalsa? Never!

Kulbir Singh

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 17, 2011 06:48AM

Does anyone know the earliest extant source of the story regarding Uch da pir?
Maybe an insight into the author may help establish some motive?

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 17, 2011 10:19AM

Gurblias 10 by Sukha Singh was the first to mention this story and later on it developed further to make it fancier. For example, Singh Sagar mentions Guru Sahib keeping his hair open etc which are not found in Gurbilas. All Gurbilas says is that Singhs kept shouting "Uch Da Pir" on their way. This topic was discussed on this forum before. What happened was that Bhai Daya Singh (Pyara) disguised himself while delivering Zafarnama and Sikh historians after 90 years attributed the story to Guru Sahib. Read Historian's Approach to Guru Gobind Singh by Surjit Singh Gandhi and Raj Karega Khalsa by Sirdar Kapoor Singh. It should make everything clear. Guru Rakha

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 17, 2011 10:55AM

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

So could one of the pyare Gursikhs on this forum clearly mention the history of degh - bogh ceremony - where did this actually start from i.e which Guru Sahiban and the authentic history on it please-- I'm only learning.

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 17, 2011 11:47AM

While there is a possibility a historical incident can have its various distorted version/s. Rejecting it completely because it doesn't suite our interpretation because it raises doubts in us, doesn't seem right to me. Having said that, everyone is entitled for their own views.

dalsingh101 jee,
Zahoor Ahmed Khan is a decendant of Ghani Khan& Nabi Khan, who currently resides in Lahore, Pakistan. In his possession, he still has the handwritten hukamnama(among other relics) which Guru Sahib gave to the 2 muslim brothers for their selfless seva towards SatGuroo. The hukamnama says Ghani Khan& Nabi Khan should be respected by the panth.

The below is the photocopy of the original hukamnama:

Chota veer

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 17, 2011 11:51AM

Chatrik jeeo, thanks for the Hukamnama Sahib but does this Hukamnama Sahib mention that Guru Sahib became Uch da Pir?

Kulbir Singh

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 17, 2011 12:19PM

These same people claimed that the hukamnama was stolen in earlier 20th century. How did they find it again?

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 17, 2011 01:10PM

Quote
Bijla Singh
These same people claimed that the hukamnama was stolen in earlier 20th century. How did they find it again?

The above picture was snapped from Gurdwara Uch Da Pir. Where the photocopy is kept.
The descendants still have it I believe, as remember seeing the picture of the real hukamnama [picture, which looks similar to the above one somewhere. It escapes my memory at the time.
Where did you read it singh jeo?

The first line which is unclear says:
ਸਿਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀਓ ਦੀ ਆਗਿਆ ਹੈ ..........

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote
Bh. Kulbir Singh
does this Hukamnama Sahib mention that Guru Sahib became Uch da Pir?

No it doesn't. Having said that analyzing it from another angle, reflecting on what is written in the hukamnama. We need to transport ourselves to that time.
1.The circumstances Guru Sahib wrote that hukamana in, with Gursikhs unaware about Guru Sahib's condition & location.
2.Also considering information traveled very slow back then.

It makes sense what Guru Sahib has written in the hukamnama, as we are read it.

Going back to the topic.

Singh jee,How about the incident of Bhai Bidhi Chand getting back Dilbagh and Gulbagh from the mughals?

[www.gurmatbibek.com]

Quote

Guru Ji sent Bhai Bidhi Chand to Lahore to bring back the horses, Bhai Sahib stayed at Bhai Jiwan’s house in Lahore. Bhai sahib thought of a plan which would not involve any bloodshed. First he disguised himself has a grass cutter went to the fields and cut a bundle of fine grass. He then bought it to the gate of the fort at Lahore. Said Khan the horse keeper came out side and was pleased to see such fine grass. Bhai Bidhi Chand was then asked by Said Khan to distribute the grass to the horses, Bhai sahib taking the bundle of grass on his head inside the fort and gave it to the horses, when he did this he patted the horses on their back. He offered his services at the stable, Said Khan accepted. Bhai Bidhi Chand then came daily with grass and with the permission of Said Khan would give the grass to the horses and pat them while doing this. Said Khan saw the love Bidhi Chand had for the horses, when he would come to give them grass they would neigh at the very sight of Bidhi Chand, Said Khan then gave Bhai Sahib responsibility for arranging the delivery of grass for the horses without seeking permission from him (Said Khan). The river Ravi was touching the wall of the fort on one side. Bhai Bidhi Chand would throw one big stone in the river at night, when the watchmen heard the sound of the stone they were alarmed but when they looked towards the river they did not see anything. They thought that some animal was striking the wall and after this they did not care for that sound again. Bhai Bidhi Chand gained the trust of the whole staff , he offered them wine which made them unconscious or drunk. Bhai sahib searched and found the keys and untied Gulbagh and riding him, they jumped off the wall of the fort and landed in the river. After crossing the river Bhai Bidhi Chand reached Amritsar, the next day he reached Guru Ji and presented Gulbagh to Guru Ji, who was very pleased.

Dilbagh the remaining horse soon grew despondent and refused to eat. He obviously missed his companion. Soon the officials sought the help of a fortune teller who might be able to recover the 'stolen' horse. So disguising himself as a fortune teller, Bhai Bidhi Chand once again offered his services. He convinced the authorities that he had to re-enact a similar scenario, in order to give them the whereabouts of the missing steed. The baffled officials created a similar situation allowing Bhai Bidhi Chand to mount the remaining horse. He then yelled out that he was the former grass cutter, as he and the horse leaped over the low wall of the court yard to the Ravi River. Riding to Amritsar, then to Guru Ji’s stable the two horses were reunited.

Chota veer

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 17, 2011 02:00PM

Quote

Singh jee,How about the incident of Bhai Bidhi Chand getting back Dilbagh and Gulbagh from the mughals?

I don't think disguising as a grass cutter would mean that Bhai Bidhi Chand no longer remained a Sikh. There are plenty of Sikh grass cutters even today but that does not mean that they are not Sikhs.

Taqiya on the other hand is doing something anti-Islam in order to save life. This is the concept that is not present in Gurmat. As an example, a Sikh in time of distress, won't smoke tobacco in order to prove that he's not a Sikh.

Kulbir Singh

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 27, 2011 01:05PM

Quote
piyasi chatrik
While there is a possibility a historical incident can have its various distorted version/s. Rejecting it completely because it doesn't suite our interpretation because it raises doubts in us, doesn't seem right to me. Having said that, everyone is entitled for their own views.

dalsingh101 jee,
Zahoor Ahmed Khan is a decendant of Ghani Khan& Nabi Khan, who currently resides in Lahore, Pakistan. In his possession, he still has the handwritten hukamnama(among other relics) which Guru Sahib gave to the 2 muslim brothers for their selfless seva towards SatGuroo. The hukamnama says Ghani Khan& Nabi Khan should be respected by the panth.

The below is the photocopy of the original hukamnama:

Thanks you so much for sharing!

I do have to say that the handwriting isn't that ornate angled style that we usually associate with dasmesh pita's hand. This could be down to the use of a scribe though. Also I couldn't see the nishaan that we commonly find on Guru ji's hukams, the distinct cross and circle. Has anyone transcribed and broken up the text yet?

Quote
Bijla
Gurblias 10 by Sukha Singh was the first to mention this story and later on it developed further to make it fancier. For example, Singh Sagar mentions Guru Sahib keeping his hair open etc which are not found in Gurbilas. All Gurbilas says is that Singhs kept shouting "Uch Da Pir" on their way. This topic was discussed on this forum before. What happened was that Bhai Daya Singh (Pyara) disguised himself while delivering Zafarnama and Sikh historians after 90 years attributed the story to Guru Sahib. Read Historian's Approach to Guru Gobind Singh by Surjit Singh Gandhi and Raj Karega Khalsa by Sirdar Kapoor Singh. It should make everything clear. Guru Rakha

Thanks for letting me know. Do we have a certain authorship date for Gurbilas 10? A cursory internet search suggests the middle or end of the 18th century? If the first date is correct it would place it quite close to the events depicted.

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 27, 2011 07:10PM

Gurbilas by Koer Singh was written in 1741 but one by Sukha Singh was written in 1797 so the sakhi was written 89 years after Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Joti Jot.

Haun_Vari_Vanjha

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
May 27, 2011 08:53PM

Informative article.

Re: Taqiya Vs Gurmat
December 30, 2012 12:33PM

True! Sir jaaveh thaa jaaveh par mera Sikhi sidhak naa jaavah!

If we hope to become true ashiqs of Vaheguru Jee, like the piyarey chaar sahibzadey, and all the singha/singhnia who did kurbaania for the Panth, then we must prefer death over any sort of compromise.

Pehla maran kabool jeevan kee chhad aas!!

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