Pained at anti gurmat parchaar

I am surprised at how the followers of Dhunda and company are growing in numbers especially amongst youngsters here in Canada and US. Can something be done about this? If there were more pracharaks like Bhai Jagraj Singh from England this anti gurmat ideas could be countered easily. Since past couple of days I have been watching some videos online and have come to the conclusion that these anti gurmat pracharaks are succeeding just because the sangat is not well read. When average intelligence in low and when people do not have mental tools for critical anlaysis these things provide easy ground for such prachaars. ਕੋਈ ਗੱਡਵਾਂ ਪ੍ਰਚਾਰਕ ਹੋਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਇਹਨਾ ਗੱਲਾ ਦਾ ਟਾਕਰਾ ਬੜੇ ਆਰਾਮ ਨਾਲ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ .

He is very much contained in USA. He is not allowed to visit any big Gurudwara in USA especially in california.He was allowed
to speak in a new Gurudwara at Turlock , Ca on the premise that he will answer queries from sangat.

He did not answer any question in proper. He was evading answers by counter questioning and body language. He was also challenged
to get in debate with a Gursikh but he declined.Please see video

[www.youtube.com]

If you watch this video carefully, at one point he says Guru Granth sahib says that when a human dies his body is of no use whereas animal
body is put to use.He argues that these days eyes of dead person are put in use. In other words he is grying to say that Guru granth sahib ji
has been proved wrong.

These people are not sikhs even as they are faithless including Ragi darshan singh. I have been lobbying , at my level ,some people that SGPC should introduce a system wherein controversial preachers claiming to go abroad preaching sikhism be rejected by embassies if SGPC does not clear such people.We all should try for this and appeal to all gursikhs to put curb such evil coming here and misguiding innocents.

Well to add more on this. I saw one video where Dhunda and Singhs Sat together to do Vichaar and they discussed about Gurbani and Rehat MAryada.

Forget About Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji, they don't have that Mat to understand that but to my surprise he said something very dangerous about a Tukk from Gurbani

He said that Gurbani can give Sukh only in this world and when sangat asked what about the next world his answer was "do you know anyone who died and came back to you to share his experience of the next world?"

Khalsa ji when he talks and does Vichaar you can clearly see that he speaks in Haumai..

We Need to Avoid Such Manmukhs. They are a big threat to the sangat.

A Gursikh from winnipeg, Manitoba who heads a Gurudwara there organized eight guru ghars there last year and passed a resolution that these missionary parcharaks will not be allowed to do katha in these gurudwaras.He told me about this last week.

They have been identified as anti gurmat as their base is kala afghana ideology of atheism.A movement has started against them.let us contribute our little bit.

Last week when sikhs were in pain about Blue star event , they came in and insulted Baba hari singh ji.Then Guru ghar Nanak darbar organized a meeting between two sides and given below are videos of that.Please see.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

I am much far away from what a gursikh rehat should be but at least I know a little of what (albeit only intellectually) what gurmat is. And when i see such videos i get so upset and angry and worked up that i loose sleep and feel like picking up an argument with such people right there and then. And now it has been 2 weeks since i saw this guy and my mind has still not returned to its normal state. Much of my anger stems from the fact that i feel that had i been there i could have stood ground well in my arguments. Its only that sangat does not argumentative skills that such people succeed. I am upset right now as i write this!

I feel the exact same way, and feel pained at the athiest parchar that is spreading.

I have noticed one thing, when someone questions Sarbjeet Singh Dhunda and Panthpreet Singh, they will never give a direct straight to the point answer telling what their views are. They will always give an answer that can be interpreted in any way. Not too long ago a person asked Panthpreet Singh about the Gur Hukam of keeping Kesh, he did not give a direct answer saying yes it is hukam and a Sikh must keep kesh, instead his answer was very diplomatic which could be interpreted in any way. Just listen to their Kathas, they will never tell a Sikh to keep kesh and today you will notice that most of their following is among the Ghona Monas, beard trimmers and non Amritdharis. In another on line video Singhs asked Sarbjeet Singh Dhunda about Jaap Sahib, and just like Panthpreet Singh, instead of getting to the point Dhunda started to beat around the bush. Instead of saying "I DO or DON'T believe it to be Bani" he gave a diplomatic answer meaning he doesn't say it is Bani and doesn't say it is not Bani when everyone knows that he does not believe it to be Bani.

Now the question arises that if they don't believe in the Nitnemi Banis of Jaap Sahib, Svaiye and Chaupi Sahib then their Amrit is invalid because these 3 Banis must be recited along with Japji Sahib and Anand Sahib when preparing Amrit. Furthur more, these Banis are part of Nitnem so it is Farz for a Sikh to read these everyday. By default every Amritdhari is a believer in Jaap Sahib, Svaiye and Chaupi Sahib.

Jatha Singhs are also taking this very lightly. They are like the Sidhs who only care about their own Bhagti not caring for what is happening in the rest of the world. Athiest mindset under the garb of missionary/kala afghana Sikhi is spreading fast like wildfire in the Panth. Taksal is currently in a disunited state and cannot do this alone. Jatha needs to get involved in countering the atheist koorh parchar which is attacking the very roots and foundations of Sikhi. Jatha has knowledge of Viakaran. So the atheist misinterpretation of Bani can best be countered with Viakaran. This reminds me of the classic case of the Bhai Kulbir Singh vs Ghagha debate where Mr Ghagha was misinterpreting the Ganga Ki Lahr Meri Tuti Zanjeer Tukh, But Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee checked him right there by showing through viakaran how he is misinterpreting that Tukh. It was an open and shut case right there and then.

Knowledgeable Singhs like Kulbir Singh Jee, Jasjit Singh Jee, Bijla Singh Jee and other members of this forum should write articles to counter their atheist parchar. It is the need of the hour. Bhai Randhir Singh Jee had written many books which were written as rebuttal to those who questioned Simran. For example when one read Gurmat Naam Abhiyas Kamaee, one notices that Bhai Sahib is countering koorh parchar. So most of the material to counter missionary/kala afghana parchar can be found from Bhai Sahib's books.

I have a couple of thoughts going in my mind since past few days about methodology of countering such parchars. One is that we have to be modern. YouTube videos of high professional quality like Bhai Jagraj Singh makes (Basics of Sikhi channel on youtube). The material has to be bite sized. Small nuggets sharp and to the point. Almost like modern day advertisement. But just making these videos is not enough. Even more important step is to push them to the audience through facebook, whatsapp. Videos lying on Youtube are different from facebook and whatsapp. In the former one has to have a desire to search and then view them, and in the latter case the videos themselves come in front of one's eyes and almost present themselves.

Its my view that in present times, long drawn seminars and scholarly presentations are ineffective as far as communicating with common people goes. Seminars and books and other scholarly pursuits are important to form a solid platform and long lasting research which could be referrred back to even after years and years. They play the important role of knowledge creation, compilation, interpretation and preservation. The part of spreading these ideas to common people is catered by modern day platforms such as facebook and whatsapp.

Second thought is about facilitating historical research on puratan Dasam Granth Sahib beerh. Its my view that half of the battle is won when we prove beyind doubt the historicity of Dasam beerh. What I mean is that if it is clearly and cogently presented before the audience that these beerh were present in the hands of Puratan Gursikh Brahmgianis like Baba Deep Singh ji and others then only point left is how to interpret these texts and argue about the authorship (whether these are written by court poets or not). After establishing the historicity of the beerh nobody can say that these were written in last decade of 1800. Today Gagha and company says that Dasam Granth is creation of Brahmanvad and these never existed in proper form before last decades of 1800s. This is a stupid and laughable argument and it forms the basis of doubt in minds of audience.

I believe Piara Singh Padam has written some book on this but I have not read it. This again proves my point. The knowledge buried in scholarly books needs to be dug out and disseminated through modern day communication nuggets i mentioned above.

There were two beers of Dasam Granth sahib compiled during Guru Sahib's time in around 1698. One is called anandpuri beerh mentioned in Piara singh Padam's book Dasam Granth Darshan.Second beer is Beer patna that was present in Toashakhana of Patna sahib. Anandpuri beer was looted by a pathan during evacuation of Anandpur sahib then bought over by a sikh at a later dae.It was in private collection of a sikh family of Bombay and then was said to be in hands of a Chandigarh family.A sikh had a digitized copy of it in California and i had its darshan at his hom.He was not willing to show share it.

He had also digitized Beer Patna,Beer of Bhai mani singh ji and one more beer.But not willing to disclose those. Someone has to catalogue these ones and other historical evidence that proves that Dasam Granth was part and parcel of sikhi ever since ot was written.

Dasam Granth used to be in parkash at all takhats and its parkash was lifted from akal takhat in 1943 when Mohan singh Nagoke was president of SGPC. Thenceforward it is slipping from memory of sikh panth.But there will be no sikhi left if these nastiks succeed in their hatred towards institution. of khalsa.Sikhism will face fate of kabir panthis who have been assimilated in Hinduism as it is khalsa that gives structural shape to sikhism.

These nastiks used internet first then youtube and now facebook to spread their propaganda.Gursikhs raected when they realized that these gatra wearing ones were their real enemies. In all probability they are backed by those who want to a vibrant sikh minority to be assimilated in majority religion.Their present attack is on Guru Granth sahib teachings.

Jatha singhs from India are staunch proponents of Dasam bani as they know that sarbloh and shahsters such as sri sahib ,khanda and otehr weapons have their origin from this bani.same cann't be said about jatha singhs abroad especially UK.

Sardar Anurag singh is son of Dr Tarlochan singh.He has undertaken seva of countering these nastiks after retirement recently.Given below is his good article on present situation.

[profanuraagsingh.wordpress.com]

DASAM GRANTH: BEYOND THE GRASP OF HUMAN WISDOM: PART-1 BACHITRA NATAK
JUNE 10, 2015DALVIRGILL
DASAM GRANTH:

BEYOND THE GRASP OF HUMAN WISDOM:

PART-1 BACHITRA NATAK
——————————————————————-

husseini1

There is a class of motivated Sikh writers, posing themselves as Professors, Kathakars, Parcharaks (Missionaries) and Self-Styled Reformists. In their malicious and paid speeches and writings they have over-simplified Sikhism, its philosophy, theology and mysticism to few formulas of parrot-like repetition of the Divine Name (Nam) by loudly proclaiming that they consider Guru Granth Sahib as the only Guru, but they denounce all the mythological references of ancient history, classical mythological references in Dasam Granth, unmindful of the fact that there are more Puranic references in Guru Granth Sahib than found in Dasam Granth. They loudly proclaim that these references are Puranic and Hindu in content to create hatred and doubts in the minds of the Sikhs.

The mystic and ethical heights of the Word of God (Shabad), enshrined in the Sikh Scriptures ( Guru Granth Sahib, Dasam Granth and Vars of Bhai Gurdas ), are like Everest Peak, beyond the reach, but within sight. The Himalayan Peak proclaims: “Bring me men who can match my heights”. To understand Dasam Granth a person is required to match the heights of the Himalyan Peak. To understand the mind, philosophy and the mysticism of the divine creator of Bachitra Natak, knowledge of Sanskrit, Braj and Persian languages, ancient Indian philosophy is absolutely necessary without which even Guru Granth Sahib too can not be interpreted correctly. Just as Guru Nanak’s mystic personality emerges only in the Logos of Divine Manifestation (SHABADS), and not in the Janam Sakhis, so also the majestic and mystic personality of Poet-Warrior Prophet Guru Gobind Singh reveals itself in all the grandeur and his unique genius only in Bachitra Natak and not in various Gurbilases and some crude anecdotes (Sakhis), clumsily repeated by the semi-literate Kathakars in the congregations: Sangats.



No Indian thinker, no philosopher, ancient or modern, could ever discuss metaphysical problems without using the metaphysical symbols and mythical terms i.e. to speak in the idiom of the people to give them new interpretation of the terms, concepts and beliefs, which undergoes transvaluation of values with the passage of time, and hence need of a new Faith and new Prophet. The very first word in the Proem of Guru Granth Sahib (Mulmantra), OAMKAR is a metaphysical symbol, which is taken from ancient Indian historical, philosophical and religious traditions. ( Chandogaya Upanishad, 1:14; 1:4.1; 1:4.4-5; 1:8; II:23.3; Taittiriya Upanishad, 1:1; Katha Upanishad,1:2,15; Prashna Upanishad, 5:2,7; Manudukya Upanishad,1:1 ). In the entire Upanishadic literature Oamkar is used for God. Taking a cue from this Upanishadic meaning most of the theologians, including Prof.Sahib Singh Ji mistranslated Ik Oamkar as One God. Bhai Gurdas and even Gruru GRANTH Sahib clearly state that Ik Oamkar is neither one word nor it is used to denote Upanishadic philosophy. Actually, Ik Oamkar represents two concepts:Ik=One Absolute Unmanifest God, rejecting the plurality of Hindu gods and goddesses, and Oamkar=Manifest Divine Spirit of God, which is latent in all the human-beings, His Manifest All-pervading Spirit. Similarly, Ekamkar and Oamkar are also two different metaphysical concepts, which too has been adequately explained in Guru Granth Sahib and in the Vars of Bhai Gurdas. For details the readers can refer:
(i)Guru Granth Sahib, pp.276, 294, 736, 782, 821, 838, 916, 930, 1034, 1078, 1314, (ii)Bhai Gurdas,1:4; 2:20, 3:15, 4:1; 6:4; 7:16; 8:1-2; 13:11; 16:11; 18:1,2,7,11; 19:1; 22:1; 25:1; 26:2,5; 37:2; 39:1,2,4,13; 40:6,12,16; and
Kabitt Sawaiye,49,51,54,55.
(iii)Dasam Granth,
Bachitra Natak, 2:10, p.47;
Chaubis Avatar, 29-30, pp.157-58;
Paras Nath Avatar, 335, p.707.



In one of his hymn in Raga Gauri Guarari, Guru Nanak has referred following 15 mythological figures in eight lines: Brhma, Bali Raja,Harish Chandra, Harnakash, Prahlada, Ravana, Madhu Daitya,Kaitabha, Mahisasura, Jarasandha, Kalnem, Rakatbija, Duryudhana, Janamejaya and Krishna.(Guru Granth Sahib,pp.224-25).

There are about 700 such hymns in Guru Granth Sahib in which ancient Indian historical figures and myths have been referred from Rig Veda, Aitareya Brahmana, Shatapatha Brahamana, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Bhagavata Purana, Devi Bhagvat Purana, Brahmanda Purana, Agni Purana, Markandeya Purana, Sakanda Purana and Naradiya Purana.

May I ask these semi-literate Professors, Parcharaks, Slanderers and Neo Reformers, who are misquoting and misinterpreting these very Puranic references in Dasam Granth with malicious intent, whether they are aware of these Shabads in Guru Granth Sahib with mythological references; whether they skip over these hymns and reject them as spurious, Hindu,mythological, Brahaminical, Avtarvad and not in accord with Gurmat philosophy? The works of Bhai Gurdas were blessed by Guru Arjan Dev as,”Key to Adi Granth: Mano Shabad da Tikka hai“, and he too has explained these Puranic references in his Vars, which are never referred by these adversaries of Sikhism, operating in the guise of Sikhism: Dhande de Sikh, Bhekhi Sikh, Hirsi Sikh, as defined by Bhai Daya Singh in his Rehitnama.



Guru Gobind Singh carried forward the task of Bhai Gurdas in Dasam Granth, particularly in Bachichtra Natak to serve as a Dicionary of Mythological References appearing in Guru Granth Sahib according to Gurmat philosophy and not according to Puranic philosophy. Instead of trying to read them with the intellect and mind required to understand these common mythological references according to Gurmat, the safest method employed by these paid modern CHARVAKAYAS is to reject them with their fallacious arguments and distort their meanings to mislead the Sikhs and create confusion, controversies and dissension.



Unfortunately, we have developed the habit of reciting Guru Granth Sahib without even caring to understand the mystic import of the hymns. We are concerned with the ritualistic reading and speed to finish the reading in which parrot like repetition of the Divine Name is considered a magic formula to achieve material comforts of the material world. In the minds of such materialists, endowed with spiritless dead souls, there is nothing but hatred, ignorance and doubts for which they are adequately paid for this malicious and motivated propaganda. Guru Gobind Singh rightly says for such parrots: “Jap ke kie te pai payat ajap dev pudna sadiv tuhi tuhi ucharat hai: By spiritless recitation of divine Name if one can feel the presence of Divine Essence within, then Warbler (Pudna) repeats the word Thou are,Thou are”.(Akal Ustati,84,p.19). Hence Guru Gobind Singh makes it clear for these spiritless dead souls that you achieve nothing by spiritless repetition of the Name, no matter how long you do it like Warbler.



Dasam Granth was easily understood by the people in the 17th,18th and 19th centuries by the people because there were traditional seminaries for interpreting the true essence of each verse and concepts. But now with the emergence of hundreds of Khalsa Colleges and many universities, we have Comrade Professors and no departments where our children can learn the languages of the Scriptures to understand their linguistic, theological, philosophical and mystical richness. The result is negative works of self-styled scholars like Shamsher Singh Ashok, Dr Rattan Singh Jaggi, Kartar Singh Bari, Giani Bhag Singh, Gurtej Singh, Sardar Daljeet Singh, Sardar Jagjeet Singh, Principal Harbhajan Singh, Diwan Singh, Prof. Harinder Singh Mehboob, Dr Jasbir Singh Maan, Mahinder Singh Josh, Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana, Darshan Singh Ragi, Inder Singh Ghagga, and Parcharaks like Dhundas, Harjinder Singh Dilgeer, Jachaks etc, which reflects their education and upbringing to amass wealth by casting aspersions and doubts on Nitnem Banis, Bhatt Bani, Bhagat Bani, Ardasa, Bhai Gurdas and Dasam Granth. There are two paths: Parmarath and Padaraths; they have chosen the path of Padaraths: Maya, which is reproved in Guru Granth Sahib in severe possible terms, and they stand exposed and condemned on this count also that they consider Guru Granth Sahib as their Guru:Holy Preceptor.

Gur-Fateh!!!

Anurag Singh
6.6.2015.

I feel delighted that there are singhs and sisters who feel strong about brazen attacks on fundamentals of our religion. It is a pity that those who were to safeguard our religion are sleeping like kumbhkaran.Breeding ground for this hatred is missionary schools who do not have approved syllabus from SGPC.They cn be brought to their senses if SGPC wants to do this.

Let us contribute our bit in this long battle to safeguard fundamentals of our religion. An ordinary sikh can do better than those who have vested interests.

With all due respect, explaining something is not saying Guru Granth sahib ji is wrong. When people become to fanatic, like olden days Brahmins, Muslims, believed what they believed & performed is the right way. Role of women is described in various ways in Guru Granth sahib jee, we cannot pick one thing & try to say this what it is. Being religious really means understanding Vaheguru, which is in everyone of us. ਕੰਚਨ ਕਾਇਆ ਕੋਟ ਗੜ ਵਿਚਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਧਾ . So how can you blame anyone as Gods jot resides in all of us.

**All religions believe their way is true & best. Religion was formed to unite people not divide them. ** They are willing to kill or die for it, which is against God.

ਮੇਰਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਜਾਨਤਾ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਬੰਧਾ ॥
मेरा तेरा जानता तब ही ते बंधा ॥
Merā ṯerā jānṯā ṯab hī ṯe banḏẖā.
He is concerned with 'mine and yours', and so he is held in bondage.

ਗੁਰਿ ਕਾਟੀ ਅਗਿਆਨਤਾ ਤਬ ਛੁਟਕੇ ਫੰਧਾ ॥੨॥
गुरि काटी अगिआनता तब छुटके फंधा ॥२॥
Gur kātī agi▫ānṯā ṯab cẖẖutke fanḏẖā. ||2||
When the Guru dispelled my ignorance, then the noose of death was cut away from my neck. ||2||

ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਬੂਝਤਾ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਲਉ ਦੁਖੀਆ ॥
जब लगु हुकमु न बूझता तब ही लउ दुखीआ ॥
Jab lag hukam na būjẖ▫ṯā ṯab hī la▫o ḏukẖī▫ā.
As long as he does not understand the Command of God's Will, he remains miserable.

Who are we to judge, only God-Vaheguru can judge.

If we were that wise than we would be all blessed than all this won't be an issue.

Vaheguru je ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ke fateh

Teachings of Guru sahibans are enshrined in Guru Granth sahib.For example Guru sahibs lay emphasis on naam simran throughout
Guru Granth sahib.

Now if some misinterpret and propagate naam simran as useless or parroting obviously they are not following sikhism.They are selling their own
stuff in name of sikhi.Such people need to be rebutted as they are misleading young generation.They also reejct amrit vela, gurumantra,karma and reincarnation concepts.

Please see this video of leading lights of missionary colleges giving heir views

[www.youtube.com]