"Mahalla and Ghar in Gurbani

While Mahalla is for the Guru Sahibaan who wrote Gurbani, what is Ghar about? What does it signify? Please help.

ghar refers to a variation within the raag that the shabad is written in. the number following the ghar denotes what kind of variation.

that's about all i know, sorry i can't be more specific!

VaahegurooJeeKaaKhaalsaaVaahegurooJeeKeeFateh!

Bhai Sahib, from my limited understanding, Ghar essentially refers to Taal. Each Ghar represents a musical measure/beat/rhythm. This way Guru Sahib has specified not only the Raag in which the shabad is written, but the Taal which should accompany it also. Ghar 1 is daadraa (6 beats), Ghar 2 is roopak (7 beats), Ghar 3 is tin-taal (16 beats), etc.

VaahegurooJeeKaaKhaalsaaVaahegurooJeeKeeFateh!
Tarnveer Singh

[gurmatbibek.com]

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Tarnveer Singh Ji, I use to believe in this theory as well, but if we view the instruments used in Puratan times the theory that Taal means Ghar does not make sense since Taal strictly applies to percurssion instruments. In ancient India percurssion instruments were usually played for folk tunes and for the most part looked down upon by religious factions as people used such instruments to dance and tempt the vikaars. In puratan times percurssion instruments meaning instruments which are played by striking two objects or strinking the object with the hand ( tabla) where not used.

The most played instruments were the string instruments ( rabab, sarangi , dotar etc) . String instruments are very extravagent and beautiful they go well with Clasical Raag . Tabla and Vaja are fairly new instruments in the panth. The only percursive instrumnet used was the Nagara and that was for times of war and brining in Sri Guru Jis saroop.

I think the only percussion instrument used was the cymbal but I think this instument was rarely played as the cymbal was popular amongst paid dancers. .

Sorry, my previous message was supposed by be in reply to this thread:
[gurmatbibek.com]

Sukhdeep Singh:
Taal is not a thing that can only exist with percussion instruments. You can have Taal without percussion (I'll elaborate if you want).
But regardless, the meaning of Ghar, as I mentioned in my other post, does not refer to Taal (you can read why there).
Also, Ghar does not refer to Raag variants because Raags that contain Ghars can also contain variations (for example: Raag Prabhati contains a couple of Ghars (not that many, but still has like one or two), but it also has variations: Prabhati Bibhas, Bibhas Prabhati, and Prabhati Dakhani)

Gursikho , my simple understanding is that Taal was originally designed for dance ( BHai Kahn Singh Nabha) and not for devotional kirtan as Gurbani is the dance of the Atma not the body. Taals were included in Raags not for devotional reasons but instead to elevate dancing. In Sri Asa Di Vaar the verses pangti shows how some some people would make a living of this type of dance-taal combination.

ਰੋਟੀਆ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਪੂਰਹਿ ਤਾਲ ॥ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾੜਹਿ ਧਰਤੀ ਨਾਲਿ ॥

Generally speaking people dance to percussion instruments not string instruments. Guru Sahib selected string instuments to prevent people from dancing, so it does not make sense that Ghar would refer to Taal as this would encourage some mischevious people to dance to Kirtan. In Poet Alams famous love story the courthouse concubine dances to the taal of percussion instruments and to the melody of numerous raags. I think Sri Guru Ji was vigilant of such practices and would not want Gurbai Kirtan to take the same route.

Sorry, I agree with you that Ghar isn't Taal, but I would like to say that string instruments do not prevent people from dancing. In fact, an instrument used during the times of Guru Hargobind Ji (the Sarangi) has been banned at Darbar Sahib (inside, not outside) because when massa rangarh was there, he had it played as others danced. This contradicts the string instrument thing.
Also, Taal can be used without dancing (also, though possible, not many people sing Kirtan nowadays without Taal).
Guru Ji tells us:
ਤੇਰਾਜਨੁਨਿਰਤਿਕਰੇਗੁਨਗਾਵੈ ॥
ਰਬਾਬੁਪਖਾਵਜਤਾਲਘੁੰਘਰੂਅਨਹਦਸਬਦੁਵਜਾਵੈ ॥੧॥
ਰਹਾਉ ॥
In these lines, it mentions how the Servant of God sings praises of God and it does mention Taal as well.
Also, if Taal wasn't to be used, then why would Parhtaals be include in Guru Granth Sahib?
Forgive me for any mistakes