Recent Rain Swais : Very little simran

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Just a thought on what I have experienced

I am not sure but myself and a few of my gursikh mates have noticed that style of kirtan has changed a bit since my first rain swai years ago.

When I was coming into sikhi, the key thing drawing me to these rain swais was the simran along the with Shabad , sung in very high spirit rather than in one monotonous tone all the time and I could feel the simran going in my head all the time and that feeling used to stay with me for days afterwards.

But in recent years the new kirtanias simply sing the shabad in a very un-aspiring way and with very little or no simran at all. In case of youth and especially kids, for them the best part of rain swai used to be the simran but now as there is very little simran, they simply head for langar hall if they do not understand the shabad or not being sung in chardi kala (Like Bibi Harjeet Kaur Moga or Bibi Harroop Kaur or bhai Gurdev Singh, they uplift the spirit of sangat straight away, especially Bibi Harjeet Kaur moga is amazing).
I know some people and institutions are against simran with in the shabad but I think that is best part of the AKJ kirtan as every one gets a chance to get involved by doing simran in sangat and ger laha (profit of saad -sangat) even though they do not understand the whole shabad. They go home with something if they do the simran atleast.

I cannot say for other countries but in UK it definitely has changed. Last night I attended International AKJ smagam at Derby, UK and all my mates inlcluding my self felt this lack of simran and chardi kala kirtan. Apart from two or three kirtanias it was not as uplifting experience as I had expected it to be.

Bhul Chuk Muaff , Sangat is Bakshanhar

Quote
KamJSingh
I know some people and institutions are against simran with in the shabad

As per my belief, nobody is against it. But what they are against is that some kirtanee use it as a tool to pump-up the environment. The central idea is that it should be natural.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

There is no such thing as low quality kirtan, if you are unable to feel Guru's words in a certain way, then that's your own problem, don't blame it on the kirtanis, gurbanis meanings don't change with the tone of the music of the kirtan.

Leafy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no such thing as low quality kirtan, if
> you are unable to feel Guru's words in a certain
> way, then that's your own problem, don't blame it
> on the kirtanis, gurbanis meanings don't change
> with the tone of the music of the kirtan.

You are quite right: There is no such thing as low quality kirtan otherwise it won't be kirtan.

Sorry, but I disagree with the other comment a shabad sung by a kamai wala kirtani,who sings it from their heart and soul affect the sangat in a very different way.
Yes, meaning don't change but just for example if I sang a shabad in sangat and bhai Jeevan Singh sang the same shabad in the sangat, I am sure then the kirtan by Bhai Jeevan Singh will have a much powerful effect on sangat than kirtan done by myself.

Secondly my message was about the lack of simran in ran swais only and not to blame kirtanis or anybody. I do apologise if I have offended anyone.

The Pure True Gurus words are sublime, sweet, eternal, never changing and they bring about the same effect every time, whether sung, spoken, or whispered...anything else is just artificial..

Leafy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Pure True Gurus words are sublime, sweet,
> eternal, never changing and they bring about the
> same effect every time, whether sung, spoken, or
> whispered...anything else is just artificial..

Leafy ji you are right in one sense ie in absolute sense, Gurbani's words are extension of Naam/AkalPurakh and manifested especially for upliftment of the mind towards Naam/AkalPurakh.
BUT the state of mind affects the reception of Gurbani inside the mind. Different music attracts and affects the mind in different ways. Therefore whereas ideally kirtan can be thought to be as unchanging in its effect, practically speaking the singing (I am not using the word kirtan) can change and the effect can vary.
Of course when mind is in a good state of 'sharda' and 'umaah' or 'chao' even a not so good singing shall become ideal keertan.

Forgive me if I am wrong.

give them the benefit of the doubt, every person starts at level 1...........shouldn't blame ne1, if they don't have kamaee...they are working on it and be thankful for that.

As Jaskirat has mentioned, the problem is when dhunee is used to pump up the keertan, rather than when it occurs naturally. If you want to get more ras and anand out of keertan, then you should make every effort to focus on the shabad, especially by singing along (even if you don't understand). And doing veechar on your own, such as by reading translations, should be done to build your understanding, which will help you feel more anand during keertans.

Unfortunately, if the keertani him/herself does not have any prem for the shabad, it does make it harder to feel uplifted by the keertan.

You are more than welcome to do anything you want, "Kaam-J-Singh". Don't try to push your views on anyone. If you live in UK, I think it would be worth a try/effort to approach those Kirtanis whom you know personally, and take up the matter with them. No need to write about the dilemmas you face in life. I can understand it might stress you out, day in day out. But I can assure you, there is yet to see a lot more in life than meets the eye. There are lot more and bigger issues in this world. I think the recent Syria conflict is a bigger issue than what you have tried to bring to attention.

concentrate what guru sahib give updesh to us
pourree 5 ||
thus dhithaa poorai sathiguroo har dhhan sach akhutt ||
sabh a(n)dhaesae mitt geae jam kaa bho shhutt ||
kaam krodhh buriaaeeaaa(n) sa(n)g saadhhoo thutt ||
vin sachae dhoojaa saevadhae hue marasan butt ||
naanak ko gur bakhasiaa naamai sa(n)g jutt ||29||

Would you please translate that shabad into english?

KamJSingh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
> Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
>
> Just a thought on what I have experienced
>
> I am not sure but myself and a few of my gursikh
> mates have noticed that style of kirtan has
> changed a bit since my first rain swai years ago.
>
> When I was coming into sikhi, the key thing
> drawing me to these rain swais was the simran
> along the with Shabad , sung in very high spirit
> rather than in one monotonous tone all the time
> and I could feel the simran going in my head all
> the time and that feeling used to stay with me for
> days afterwards.
>
> But in recent years the new kirtanias simply sing
> the shabad in a very un-aspiring way and with very
> little or no simran at all. In case of youth and
> especially kids, for them the best part of rain
> swai used to be the simran but now as there is
> very little simran, they simply head for langar
> hall if they do not understand the shabad or not
> being sung in chardi kala (Like Bibi Harjeet Kaur
> Moga or Bibi Harroop Kaur or bhai Gurdev Singh,
> they uplift the spirit of sangat straight away,
> especially Bibi Harjeet Kaur moga is amazing).
> I know some people and institutions are against
> simran with in the shabad but I think that is
> best part of the AKJ kirtan as every one gets a
> chance to get involved by doing simran in sangat
> and ger laha (profit of saad -sangat) even though
> they do not understand the whole shabad. They go
> home with something if they do the simran
> atleast.
>
> I cannot say for other countries but in UK it
> definitely has changed. Last night I attended
> International AKJ smagam at Derby, UK and all my
> mates inlcluding my self felt this lack of simran
> and chardi kala kirtan. Apart from two or three
> kirtanias it was not as uplifting experience as I
> had expected it to be.
>
> Bhul Chuk Muaff , Sangat is Bakshanhar


I totally disagree - i attended the smagam - it was most chardi kala - it was dynamic -there was one keertanyia who didn't do much simran and sang Gurbani and shabads which I had never come across and he sang them in such vigour simran in my body was exploding with naam as i was reading the veechars of those shabads. KamjSinhgh jeeo i din't mean to dishearten but that's y persoanl experience - i sat the whole smamgam till 500 am - it was only one keertanya the rest were all normal AKJ stylee with dhunee simran i.e Bhai Jasbir Singh jee, Bhai Manjit Singh Jee glasgow, Bhai Harpreet Jee all were wicked and Bibi jee did keertan not sure of her name she rocked it massively- absolute rock smagam I enjoyed every minute of it and so did my family.

Bhai Sahib if we cut the criticism in our mind then all is bliss -simran or non simran in smagam - hope you understand --
Come to the next smagam to here Maharajs praises from all beaautiful keertanyieas, Stay the whole smagam your experience tells me clearly you didnt stay that smagam all the way thru

Bhai sahib kulbir singh jio,leafy ji nun uprokat gurshabad di translation greji vich kar deo ji.dass nun greji ghat hi aundi hai. Bhul chuk muaf
dassin dass

Thanks every one for their comments and suggestions.

ns44 veer ji ,you are probably right. I seem to have jumped the gun by posting this message as I did leave early this time because someone else was driving, so we had to leave just after 12. I think it was indeed my personal experience, the way I felt recently.

I do apologise as I did not mean to upset anyone and definitely not a Kirtani who might read this comment.

ns44 veer ji, are you from Coventry by any chance.

Bhul Chuk Muaff

I think the major reason why you/we feel like this is when we expect something very big... And when our expectations are not fully satisfied we feel like very low, and the high spritual viberations of the sangat are not realised... From expecting big i mean thinking that only one raensabai will take you to next spritual experiences, will boost your spritual life to next level and etc...

One thing we can do to overcome to this problem is that we should not think anything like that(above mentioned problems) and try to get as much laha as you can get from sangat...

Bhul chuk muaf...

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa
Vaheguru ji ki fateh...

I was going to reply to Leafy Ji myself but found an old post (actually posted by Vista Jio on this site) from Kulbir Singh Ji that sums it up.

The third point below is the most important in my eyes. One who is a true Gursikh with full Rehat whether singing a Shabad or uttering bachans have significantly more impact on a persons mind than any normal person ever will.



There are at least three components for Kirtan. One is Gurbani. Second is Sangeet and third is Kirtaniya i.e. the one singing. All three cast effect on the listener. Gurbani is Gurbani and what to say about it. It's a given.

The next component is sangeet i.e. the music aspect of it. If combination of sur, taal and sweet voice is reached then it helps the surthee to engage in Gurbani. But it should be remembered that if the sangeet aspect overshadows the Gurbani component, then it is hard to derive Hari Rass from it.

The third very important component is the kirtaniya. The jeevan of the kirtaniya and the emotion level of the kirtaniya at the time of singing kirtan definitely casts effect on the sangat. If the kirtaniya is dhilla plus at the time of kirtan his or her mind is wandering on something else, a proportionate effect will cast on the the sangat.

On the other hand imagine if the kirtaniya is an accomplished Gursikh with immense love for Guru Sahib and if such person does kirtan with focused mind, and has respectable command over sur and taal, how much rass it will give sangat.

Kulbir Singh (very old post from another site)

Expecting more and more simran during Kirtan is only a recent tendency. During Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji times, it was not like that. We must keep that in mind.