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Krishna

Posted by mahamoorkh 
Krishna
July 02, 2012 09:33AM
What is gurbanis view on krishna, did she get mukhti and sachkhand? As in gurbani she is referred to as Gurmukh.


gurmuiK sMgI ik®sn murwry ]
guramukh sa(n)gee kirasan muraarae ||
The Lord Krishna becomes the Gurmukh's Companion.
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Re: Krishna
July 02, 2012 04:17PM
Krishna is a male not a female. According to Hindu belief Krishna is a incarnation of Vishnu who they refer to as God. Krishna even told Arjuna that every God ever worshipped from the beginning of time was in fact him. Gurmat does not support the worship or praise of Krishna or any other deity.

ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥
I dont pray to Ganesha to handle my affiars. I dont medidate on the so called incarnation Vishnu. I have heard about Krishna but I dont acknowledge him. I only lovingly worship the holy geet of God.

At one point in history the names of Raam Chander, Krishna, Vishnu became accepted names of God the same way the moon God " Allah" became an accepted name of God. I think in the quote you mentioned the word Krishna Muraraey is referring to Sri AKal Purakh and not the charachter Krishna .

How can he attain Sach Khand without Naam. In Sri Jap Ji Sahib every day we recite verses mentioning Gian Khand which mentions Ketey Kahaan Maahesh. In this place there are numerous Krishnas so we cant conclude him reaching Sri Sach Khand after departing this world.
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Re: Krishna
July 02, 2012 04:23PM
He was a "he" actually.
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Re: Krishna
July 02, 2012 11:27PM
Inspite of being a big fool, atleast I know that after playing so much "Raas Leela" how one can go to Sach-Khand because in Sach-Khand Vasay Nirankaar and there is no place for Casanovas (sorry for this eye rolling smiley ).

Once Katha Vachak had mentioned that Lord Krishna was so insecure that he had transfered all of his "Ranis" to the island called "Beyt/Bet/Bhet Island" (near Gulf of Kutch, Gujrat, India) from where the Ranis could not leave him and run away.

What is mentioned in the Paudis is not the Krishna of Dwaraka.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.
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Re: Krishna
July 03, 2012 12:42AM
One should see that in Gurbanee there are number of NOUN-ADJECTIVE words which are also found in Hindu Mythology
to make the references for deities(GOD/GODESS).

In Gurbanee all the NOUN-ADJECTIVE words principally are references for GuR JoTi /Prabh JoTi. However one can find the use of
NOUN words in context of some reference to Hindu Mythology along with some other reference in person of the Mythology.

Therefore if one finds the word MURAAREE alone in any Gurbanee Quote alone then this is the reference for GuR JoTi /Prabh JoTi only.
It would be important to see and understand of the Context of the Gurbanee Quote to know the correct application of the words..

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Daas

Prakash.S.Bagga
.
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Re: Krishna
March 02, 2013 05:32AM
jaskirat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Inspite of being a big fool, atleast I know that
> after playing so much "Raas Leela" how one can go
> to Sach-Khand because in Sach-Khand Vasay
> Nirankaar and there is no place for Casanovas
> (sorry for this eye rolling smiley ).
>
> Once Katha Vachak had mentioned that Lord Krishna
> was so insecure that he had transfered all of his
> "Ranis" to the island called "Beyt/Bet/Bhet
> Island" (near Gulf of Kutch, Gujrat, India) from
> where the Ranis could not leave him and run away.
>
> What is mentioned in the Paudis is not the Krishna
> of Dwaraka.

Sri Krishna was not a casanova and the gopis were rishis in their previous births. Should you really refer to Krishna as being a casanova? Please read the pangtis below about Krishna from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

ਗੋਪੀ ਨੈ ਗੋਆਲੀਆ ॥
You are the Gopis, the milk-maids of Krishna; You are the sacred river Jamunaa; You are Krishna, the herdsman.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੰਗੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰੇ ॥ गुरमुखि संगी क्रिसन मुरारे ॥
The Lord Krishna becomes the Gurmukh's Companion.

ਭਗਤਿ ਹੇਤਿ ਅਵਤਾਰੁ ਲੀਓ ਹੈ ਭਾਗੁ ਬਡੋ ਬਪੁਰਾ ਕੋ ਰੇ ॥੧॥
Because of his devotion, Krishna was incarnated in his home; how great was the good fortune of this poor man! ||1||

ਚਰਨ ਬਧਿਕ ਜਨ ਤੇਊ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਭਏ ॥
The hunter who shot Krishna in the foot - even he was liberated.

ਪਰਸ ਨਪਰਸ ਭਏ ਕੁਬਿਜਾ ਕਉ ਲੈ ਬੈਕੁੰਠਿ ਸਿਧਾਰੇ ॥੧॥
Krishna was pleased, and so he touched the hunch-back Kubija, and she was transported to the heavens. ||1||

ਧਨਿ ਧਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਓਢੈ ਕਾਂਬਲੀ ॥੧॥
blessed, blessed is the blanket worn by Krishna. ||1||
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Re: Krishna
March 02, 2013 05:42AM
Here are some more pangtis from Gurbani about Krishna..


ਦੀਨਾ ਦੀਨ ਦਇਆਲ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਜਿਉ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨੁ ਬਿਦਰ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ॥ God is Merciful to the meekest of the meek; Krishna came to the house of Bidar, a devotee of low social status.
ਮਿਲਿਓ ਸੁਦਾਮਾ ਭਾਵਨੀ ਧਾਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕਿਛੁ ਆਗੈ ਦਾਲਦੁ ਭੰਜਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥੪॥ Sudama loved God, who came to meet him; God sent everything to his home, and ended his poverty. ||4||

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥
In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

ਕਵਲ ਨੈਨ ਮਧੁਰ ਬੈਨ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੈਨ ਸੰਗ ਸੋਭ ਕਹਤ ਮਾ ਜਸੋਦ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਦਹੀ ਭਾਤੁ ਖਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ You are lotus-eyed, with sweet speech, exalted and embellished with millions of companions. Mother Yashoda invited You as Krishna to eat the sweet rice.

ਪੀਤ ਬਸਨ ਕੁੰਦ ਦਸਨ ਪ੍ਰਿਆ ਸਹਿਤ ਕੰਠ ਮਾਲ ਮੁਕਟੁ ਸੀਸਿ ਮੋਰ ਪੰਖ ਚਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
As Krishna, You wear yellow robes, with teeth like jasmine flowers; You dwell with Your lovers, with Your mala around Your neck, and You joyfully adorn Your head with the crow of peacock feathers.

ਬਲਿਹਿ ਛਲਨ ਸਬਲ ਮਲਨ ਭਗ੍ਤਿ ਫਲਨ ਕਾਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕੁਅਰ ਨਿਹਕਲੰਕ ਬਜੀ ਡੰਕ ਚੜ੍ਹੂ ਦਲ ਰਵਿੰਦ ਜੀਉ ॥
Enticer of Baliraja, who smothers the mighty, and fulfills the devotees; the Prince Krishna, and Kalki; the thunder of His army and the beat of His drum echoes across the Universe.
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Re: Krishna
March 02, 2013 04:48PM
Gurbani states

ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥
देवी देवा मूलु है माइआ ॥
Ḏevī ḏevā mūl hai mā▫i▫ā.
The source, the root, of the gods and goddesses is Maya.

ang129

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
गउड़ी महला १ ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 1.
Gauree, First Mehl:

ਪ੍ਰਥਮੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਾਲੈ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ॥
प्रथमे ब्रहमा कालै घरि आइआ ॥
First, Brahma entered the house of Death.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਮਲੁ ਪਇਆਲਿ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
ब्रहम कमलु पइआलि न पाइआ ॥
Brahma entered the lotus, and searched the nether regions, but he did not find the end of it.

ਆਗਿਆ ਨਹੀ ਲੀਨੀ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਇਆ ॥੧॥
आगिआ नही लीनी भरमि भुलाइआ ॥१॥
He did not accept the Lord's Order - he was deluded by doubt. ||1||

ਜੋ ਉਪਜੈ ਸੋ ਕਾਲਿ ਸੰਘਾਰਿਆ ॥
जो उपजै सो कालि संघारिआ ॥
Whoever is created, shall be destroyed by Death.

ਹਮ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖੇ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥.
But I am protected by the Lord; I contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ||1||Pause||

ਮਾਇਆ ਮੋਹੇ ਦੇਵੀ ਸਭਿ ਦੇਵਾ ॥
माइआ मोहे देवी सभि देवा ॥
Mā▫i▫ā mohe ḏevī sabẖ ḏevā.
All the gods and goddesses are enticed by Maya.


ang 227

Guru Gobind Singh ji writes in Dasam granth sahib

ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨੇ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਯੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਹੁ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਨੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਹੀ ਕਉ ਕਰਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੨॥
काहूं ने राम कहयो क्रिशना कहु काहूं मनै अवतारन मानयो ॥ फोकट धरम बिसार सभै करतार ही कउ करता जीअ जानयो ॥१२॥
Someone calls him Ram or Krishna and someone believes in His incarnations, but my mind has forsaken all useless actions and has accepted only the One Creator.12.

33 swaiye , Dasam granth

ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥
ते हम तमकि तनक मो खापे ॥ तिन की ठउर देवता थापे ॥
I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place.

ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥
ते भी बलि पूजा उरझाए ॥ आपन ही परमेसुर कहाए ॥७॥
They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotent.7.

ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥
महादेव अचु्त कहायो ॥ बिसन आप ही को ठहिरायो ॥
Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥
ब्रहमा आप पारब्रहम बखाना ॥ प्रभ को प्रभू न किनहूं जाना ॥८॥
Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.

Bachitra Natak

ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥
क्रिसन औ बिसन जपे तुहि कोटिक राम रहीम भली बिधि धिआयो ॥
Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਹਿ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥
ब्रहम जपिओ अरु स्मभु थपिओ तहि ते तुहि को किनहूं न बचायो ॥
Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee.

Bachtra natak

All those who are not able to transcend maya have not been able to realize God ( full stop) In the beginning post gurumukh sang krishna murare,
it is akal purakh, whose specifications are in mool mantra , is with Gurmukh ( Gurmukh is that who is follower of akal purakh), Krishna is a metaphor here( Full stop)
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Re: Krishna
March 02, 2013 04:58PM
Agreed, Krishan was an amazing bhagat, and even know he may only be in Gyan Khand as concluded from Sri Jap Ji Sahib, he still is worthy of our respect. Guru Sahib has highlighted both the Good and Bad deeds of Sri Krishan, but we can conclude that he was at the very least a Bhagat.
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Re: Krishna
March 02, 2013 09:08PM
Quote

Agreed, Krishan was an amazing bhagat, and even know he may only be in Gyan Khand as concluded from Sri Jap Ji Sahib, he still is worthy of our respect. Guru Sahib has highlighted both the Good and Bad deeds of Sri Krishan, but we can conclude that he was at the very least a Bhagat.

Siri Krishna was not a Bhagat of Vaheguru. The status of a Bhagat of Vaheguru is very very high. To be a Bhagat of Vaheguru, one has to be a Sikh of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee, which he was not.

Siri Krishna was an Avtaar of Vishnu and he did some good works and committed some mistakes as well. He was gifted with natural beauty and powers that Avtaars should have.

Kulbir Singh
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Re: Krishna
March 03, 2013 09:52PM
What kind of mistakes are you referring to?
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Re: Krishna
March 04, 2013 05:17AM
Leafy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What kind of mistakes are you referring to?

Start reading from Panna # 696 onwards from it says "Bhaag":

[www.sridasam.org]
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Re: Krishna
March 04, 2013 08:00AM
In my opinion, the biggest mistake of Siri Krishna was that in Gita, while given Updesh to Paarth (Arjuna), he declared that he was the Supreme God. He was the most powerful Avtaar till date since he had 16 Kala. Raam Chandra had 14 Kala and the previous ones had less than that. Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee is Sarb-Kala Sampan but still He never declared Himself to be the Supreme God.

Siri Krishna's declaration resulted in him being worshiped by countless devotees, even to this date. From Gurmat's perspective, this is his biggest mistake.

But we don't need to dwell in mistakes and need to focus on following Gurmat. We don't need to be concerned what prophets and Avtaars of other religions did or did not do.

Kulbir Singh
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Re: Krishna
March 04, 2013 11:02AM
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa
Waheguru ji ki Fateh
I have listened to the katha by Maskeen ji. According to him krishna never tried to be God but it was Ved Byas (Vyas), who had compiled or scribed the Geeta later on and he added his own bit (Like every writer does), by declaring him to be the GOD.

He said Krishna could not be a stupid ( as he was an avatar of his time) to make such a mstake and it was actually Ved Byas' doing. Krishna simply explained to Arjun how GOD controls every thing in this world but Ved Byas replaced the word 'God' with the pronoun 'I' as for Krishna.
Bhul Chuk Muaff.
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Re: Krishna
March 04, 2013 05:50PM
Let us not mix sikh teaching with hindu reverence for these deities.

For Hindus Vishnu was absolute God and krishna was his avtar and hence indirect God.

For sikhs akal purakh is supreme and vishnu and other devtas were his creation. Dasam granth comes very heavily on these deities.They were sent for a mission and they started calling themselves as absolute Gods.
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Re: Krishna
March 04, 2013 06:27PM
What about the time when Krishna saved Dropadi by not letting her sari come off of her body?

Gurbani says...

ਪੰਚਾਲੀ ਕਉ ਰਾਜ ਸਭਾ ਮਹਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸੁਧਿ ਆਈ ॥ Pancẖālī ka▫o rāj sabẖā mėh rām nām suḏẖ ā▫ī. Dropadi the princess of Panchaala remembered the Lord's Name in the royal court.

Now if you know about the story of Mahabharat then you should know that dusashan tried to disrobe dropadi and she started remebering Krishna, who saved her from losing her clothes. dusashan pulled her sari and kept pulling but it wouldn't end as Krishna was causing her sari fabric to become longer and longer so that it would not come off when dusashan tried pulling it off.

Why is Krishna being refered to as being Lord in the gurbani pangti above?

ਮੁਕੰਦ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਲਖਮੀ ਨਾਰਾਇਣ ॥ Liberator, Enticing Lord, Lord of Lakshmi, Supreme Lord God.

I don't care about what other sikhs think about Krishna, but I really admire Krishna alot.

ਦ੍ਰੋਪਤੀ ਲਜਾ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ਉਧਾਰਣ ॥ Savior of Dropadi's honor.
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Re: Krishna
March 04, 2013 09:28PM
Nobody disrespected Krishna but as sikhs we do not worship him. Sikhism teaches worship of One akal purakh whose attributes are given in mool mantra

IN vaar asa guru sahib writes

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਰਵਾਲ ॥
नानक निरभउ निरंकारु होरि केते राम रवाल ॥
Nānak nirbẖa▫o nirankār hor keṯe rām ravāl.
O Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him.

ਕੇਤੀਆ ਕੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕਹਾਣੀਆ ਕੇਤੇ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ ॥
केतीआ कंन्ह कहाणीआ केते बेद बीचार ॥
Keṯī▫ā kanĥ kahāṇī▫ā keṯe beḏ bīcẖār.
There are so many stories of Krishna, so many who reflect over the Vedas.

ang 464

You wrote

ਪੰਚਾਲੀ ਕਉ ਰਾਜ ਸਭਾ ਮਹਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸੁਧਿ ਆਈ

my response

Shababd starts with

ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ
har ko naam sada sukhdai

So it is praise for har that means akal purakh. So it was akal purakh who came to her rescue.Read whole shabad.It gives different scenes or drishtant.First it talks about ajamal and then ganka and then dropadi.

Then shabad ends with


ਜਿਹ ਨਰ ਜਸੁ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਨਿਧਿ ਗਾਇਓ ਤਾ ਕਉ ਭਇਓ ਸਹਾਈ ॥
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੈ ਇਹੀ ਭਰੋਸੈ ਗਹੀ ਆਨਿ ਸਰਨਾਈ ॥੨॥੧॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 1008)

It means that whosover has taken his support and contemplated upon him meaning akal purakh, He had come to their resecue.Guru Teg bahadar ji says that he has also taken His shelter.It denotes akal purakh and not anyother entity.
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Re: Krishna
March 04, 2013 10:43PM
Leafy Jee, in that Gurbani Tukh it is not saying Krishna saved Dropadhi but Sri Vaheguru Jee. Note it says ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸੁਧਿ ਆ implying Vaheguru. Dashmesh Pita Jee tells us the real power behind these Avtars was Vaheguru in the following Tukhs from Chandi Di Vaar:

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
तैथों ही बलु राम लै नाल बाणा दहसिरु घाइआ ॥
Rama received power from Thee and he killed Ravana with arrows.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
तैथों ही बलु क्रिसन लै कंसु केसी पकड़ि गिराइआ ॥
Krishna received power from Thee and he threw down Kansa by catching his hair.

So it was Vaheguru who was working through them not those Avtars. Vaheguru gave Sri Krishan the ਬਲੁ/shakti to save Draupadi and to kill Kans. It was with shakti of Vaheguru that Raam Chandar was able to defeat a great warrior like Raavan. Otherwise without Vaheguru's given shakti they would never have been able to do what they did. So the credit goes to Vaheguru.
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Re: Krishna
March 05, 2013 01:55AM
Nimana wrote: > Leafy Jee, in that Gurbani Tukh it is not saying Krishna saved Dropadhi but Sri Vaheguru Jee. Note it says ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸੁਧਿ ਆ implying Vaheguru. Dashmesh Pita Jee tells us the real power behind these Avtars was Vaheguru in the following Tukhs from Chandi Di Vaar:

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
तैथों ही बलु राम लै नाल बाणा दहसिरु घाइआ ॥
Rama received power from Thee and he killed Ravana with arrows.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
तैथों ही बलु क्रिसन लै कंसु केसी पकड़ि गिराइआ ॥
Krishna received power from Thee and he threw down Kansa by catching his hair.

So it was Vaheguru who was working through them not those Avtars. Vaheguru gave Sri Krishan the ਬਲੁ/shakti to save Draupadi and to kill Kans. It was with shakti of Vaheguru that Raam Chandar was able to defeat a great warrior like Raavan. Otherwise without Vaheguru's given shakti they would never have been able to do what they did. So the credit goes to Vaheguru.



I think that should clear any doubt about who Krishna and Ram were. For me the debate has ended with these points.
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