Sant Harnam Singh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
I am reading Se Kinehiya and very inspired with the extremely high achievement of Sant Harnam Singh, and curious to know if He met Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singhjio?
Also, I am confused to know Santji drank tea at a cafe, and eats from non-sikhs in their homes, but also preaches high Gurmat discipline, like no meat/ alcohol, taking amrit, etc Is it because Santji is highly achieved, that He could eat where Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singhji would never, so there is no concern for the cup at cafe/ non-sikh homes food dish/ utensils having been made impure by meat/ alcohol/ tobacco user? Bhai Sahib is just as highly achieved as Santji, so why the non-adherence in total Gurmat living by Santji?
Also, initially in the Se Kinehiya book, I thought there is mention of visitors to Santji bowing to Him, but later in book, Sant Sewa Singhji says Santji requests that sangat bow to True King Guru Granth Sahibji, and not to Him. Bhai Sahib never allowing anyone to bow to Him, convince me that He is indeed a Saint, and I don't doubt Sant Harnam Singhji to also be a Saint, but confused with lifestyle of Santji versus that of Bhai Sahibji
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Santji drank tea at a cafe, and eats from non-sikhs in their homes

Did you actually read that somewhere or heard this from someone?

You can listen to audio book of Se Kinehia - [rampurkhera.com]

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Santji drank tea at a cafe, and eats from non-sikhs in their homes

i never heard that before, could you please give a page number to where you read this?

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but confused with lifestyle of Santji versus that of Bhai Sahibjiconfused smiley

most mahapurkhs had different lifestyle between each other but there are very MINOR differences just look at the lifestyle's of sant baba gurbachan singh jee they beleived in raagmala, and bhai randhir singh did not beleive in raagmala. As far as bibek is concerned they both kept it.

People will always find discrepancies between different mahapurkhs, the main point is to look at the BIG picture(which is the love for Akaal purakh) and not concentrate on small minor differences between them.
It's best to not look for differences between one mahapurkh and another and to say "oh he does this, and the other one does something else"

It's best to look at them and look for common similarities between them, and how you can apply those qualities to your own jeevan.

KS Jio,

Just an advise, Daas read the book almost twice and yes there are some contradictions in the book itself but we should not read to look for those but just to collect the Gunns from it. BTW Baba Ji drank the tea at Dhaba not at a cafe and that cup of tea was I guess of Baba Ji's driver. Due to severe headache Baba wanted to take pain medication but tea was still under preparation and Baba Ji was in desperate need for this and did not care to drink the Joothi tea of driver. I think that is what written in the book.

Regards,
Jasjit Singh

For sure, the two books that have most influenced Gursikhs in the West have been Se Keniya and Jail Chiitian. What is to say about the jeevan's of these two gems.

Unfortunately, there is no way of telling anyone's true avastha. There is no "Sant-o-meter" where we can just turn on and figure out the Kamyaiee of any individual. That's why when we reading the jeevan about anyone, we should be always be cautious. Just because one engages in lots of Bhagtii does not automatically mean that whatever they say is the truth. It's true they may be higher spritually than us, but that does that mean that they have true knowledge of Gurmat.

Its hard to take ones emotions to the side, but that is what you have to do. There cannot be two truths, to be straightforward, in this case either the Rehit that Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh is right or the Rehit that Baba Harnam Singh Ji is right. Yes, people will say that is "black and white" but that is exactly what truth is. Truth cannot never be in the middle, there is no grey area, there cannot be two truths, there can only be one. If one is not following a certain rehit, than no matter how Bhagti they do, we must consider it a dhil (weakness). That is not to say we undermine them in anyway, but Gurmat is only one and cannot be compromised.

I too went through this same phase, reading both of these two books, I didn't know what was right. Than, Guru Sahib did Kirpa and lead me the right way. I took my emotions to the side, and realized that the Rehit preached by Bhai Sahib, was the closest thing to the original rehit Marayada at he Amrit Sinchar of 1699. And in this way, you should make your decision. You have to look at what you think is right. Do you think Sarbloh in an undeniable Hukam by Guru Sahib? Keski is Kakkar? Both of these Gurmukhs had opposite views, on these issues and also many more. But its up to you decide what you think is the truth. Just don't let the notion, that so and so had massive Kamaayie, thus they must be correct take over. Use your own Bibek Budh to decide what is the right path. Do heartfilled Ardas, with full faith, and Guru Sahib will lead you to the right path.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
Here is the link to the page on the topic of tea from cafe (about eating in non-sikh homes, this is in same book, will try to post page when I find it)>
[rampurkhera.com]
Please understand that I revere both Santji, and Bhai Sahibji, and only brought this up to know what indeed is the true Gurmat way Gurujio expects of us so I too could achieve some discipline of sewa like His two very blessed gem Saints.
Does anyone know if Sany Sewa Singhji is still living today, and is He in UK or Punjab? I have requested for information on Gurmat maryada (one being removal of Kirpan when travelling) per Sant Harnam Singhji from Rampur Khera online via Gurdwara website but have not received any response. Another is tea, as their Naam Simran camp serve herbal tea.
Bhai Jeevan Singhji, another great Saint (and contemporary of Bhai Sahib) travelled extensively, so did He remove His Kirpan, does anyone know?
Bhul chuk muaf
Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I am sorry page is 365

you can have darshan of baba ji in this video, and sant baba jarnail singh ji jee khalsa talks about baba ji's jeevan
sant baba harnaam singh jee start at 3:00min

sant baba harnaam singh jee 2

admin i dont know if the previus post got sent through proplerly so im re posting it again sorry about that


you can have darshan of baba ji in this video, and sant baba jarnail singh ji jee khalsa talks about baba ji's jeevan
sant baba harnaam singh jee start at 3:00min

sant baba harnaam singh jee 2

Bhai Ks jeeo.

These kind of topics don't reap any benefit for us, thus should be avoided. Your question will only lead to more confusion and perhaps open a new heated debate. These kind of questions I'm sure you can ask people in Toronto. If you know it's not right to drink tea, then why make such a post using Rampur Khera..

True No-Bodh,
I apologise, but let me explain that my only purpose for being interested to know about tea consumption after taking Amrit, is due to the fact that I suffer from severe sinus migraines, and green tea, or black tea (made Punjabi way), was the remedy for me.
Since not consuming both green tea, and black tea, I have been feeling really unwell, but maybe Amrit will heal me, so I will wait for Gurujio Kirpa, and sincerely apologise again.
About Kirpan for travel, it is due to my intention to travel to leave my present location (where even Giani don't carry Kirpan, and immediate family think I am being extreme refusing to eat their food), if my employer does not approve wearing a Kirpan, so I can therefore take Amrit, when I have relocated to where there is Sikh Sat Sangat community, and no need to travel...so I will not have to choose maya over my sealed pledge to Gurujio, whom I will turn to for guidance (and accept the flow of actions to be His Hukam).
Bhul chuk muaf

ks jee

if you have health problems and headaches please see the following post and see if it helps LINK

wahegurrooo

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I apologise, but let me explain that my only purpose for being interested to know about tea consumption after taking Amrit, is due to the fact that I suffer from severe sinus migraines, and green tea, or black tea (made Punjabi way), was the remedy for me.
Since not consuming both green tea, and black tea, I have been feeling really unwell, but maybe Amrit will heal me, so I will wait for Gurujio Kirpa, and sincerely apologise again.

Let me clear this up for you,

In the 1930`s and 1940`s, the taksali singhs during vadey mahapurakhs times would consume DESI CHAI, this chai was made from natural ingredients and contained no caffeine or any other sort of intoxicants, so it was ok to consume.
DESI Chai is much different than the Chai that the gurdwara sahibs offer today and the one that most of parents consume.
Just clear it up again drinking Chai is banned by the taksal, but Desi Chai is not.

So if your green tea or black tea does not contain any sort of caffiene or intoxicants, and i am pretty sure tea doesnt contain caffiene or intoxicants, it is ok to consume.
If your still worried learn how to make the ingredients for green tea yourself, i am pretty sure if you google it you can learn how to make it

what a load of codswallop - no wonder we never progress as we always look for auguns or weakness in a particluar personailty - what will this achieve if it was true or not?/

what will you achieve out of this questioning ks jeeo apart from creating nindyia --and spreading it ?

good or bad - a Gursikhs is only to seek guns of anyone whether it's a Gursikh or just nature - look around yourself instead of such narrow minded questions

ns44ji,
Firstly what is codswallop, please?
Second, as you assumed I am doing nindiya of a Brahmgyani, without reading all my thread to the 1st post on this issue, so glory to you...and a Gupt Gurmukh would be able to know the truth to my answer to you. Also, ns44ji, a good tip in Se Kinehiya I experimented about Santji is that He avoids green or red chillies,,,and I would suggest you do too, to avoid codswalloping on my posts like a firecracker?

Manmander Singhji, and Bhaiji, thanks so much for the link/ desi chai tips...Vaheguruji's blessings triple upon you both for your understanding, and kind response.

Bhul chuk muaf

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

KS Veer Ji sorry if I sound blunt but as I speak as a your brother. Some of the excuses you make about tea is no different then the excuses women make when they dont get their daily doze. You need to man up. WHen my mom took Amrit the Panj did not prohibit tea drinking. I told her she needs to stop drinking this intoxicant. When she quit she too kept complaining about headaches, sinuses, and constant throwing up. This alone proves Tea is a drug. WHy else is there so many withdrawl symptoms? Do Ardas and leave things in Guru Jis hands. Stop worrying about these minor and trivial matters.

Thanks Sukhdeep Singhjio,
You sound like my mother now, but with a very wise, and practical advise...ignore the vices of sickness, and it will go away
Just to let you know, I am a female, which is why I relate to your mother's withdrawal symptoms?
Thank-you for your advise, I will try to woman up!
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Bhai Jodh Singh of Delhi in his memoir has given the original copy of the tract written by Bhai Sahib about tea. It is because a particular phase of time, tea was adulterated with forbidden substances. Bhai Sahib was suspicious already and then he read it in a daily and then got this tract posted. It was an appeal to panth to give up tea. Tea, anyway is an intoxicant and works the same way a cigarette does. Artificial impetus for energy.