Gen. Brar attacked in UK

[www.ndtv.com]

Kushiyan da jakara gajave nihal ho jave sat sria akaaluh gurbaaar akaluuuh

General Brar who led Indian forces in 1984 against Sant Jarnail Singh jee Bhindranwala is no doubt a loathsome creature but in today's changed world, such violence does not benefit Sikhs in general. It brings a lot of negativity towards Sikhs who are struggling in the Western countries to keep 5 Kakaars and maintain basic Sikhi way of life. I understand the emotions of ones (if they were in fact Sikhs) who may have attacked him but to stab a dead snake like Brar is not something that is going to be beneficial to Sikhs.

With changed times, the weapons too have changed. Of course the ultimate weapon is Bhagti but still the worldly weapons of today are pen, press, propaganda (positive), awareness, education and unity. We have seen that non-violent uprisings have recently changed brutal regimes in many countries and USSR was broken without much bloodshed.

I know what I wrote is not a popular opinion but I strongly believe that in the changed times, we should employ such means of resistance that are effective today. Violence in Western countries is not in our favour and it should be avoided like plague. I am not saying that we should compromise with our political and religious aspirations but we must respect the law of the Western countries and such acts of violence are very counter-productive.

Kulbir Singh

Papee

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> General Brar who led Indian forces in 1984 against
> Sant Jarnail Singh jee Bhindranwala is no doubt a
> loathsome creature but in today's changed world,
> such violence does not benefit Sikhs in general.
> It brings a lot of negativity towards Sikhs who
> are struggling in the Western countries to keep 5
> Kakaars and maintain basic Sikhi way of life. I
> understand the emotions of ones (if they were in
> fact Sikhs) who may have attacked him but to stab
> a dead snake like Brar is not something that is
> going to be beneficial to Sikhs.
>
> With changed times, the weapons too have changed.
> Of course the ultimate weapon is Bhagti but still
> the worldly weapons of today are pen, press,
> propaganda (positive), awareness, education and
> unity. We have seen that non-violent uprisings
> have recently changed brutal regimes in many
> countries and USSR was broken without much
> bloodshed.
>
> I know what I wrote is not a popular opinion but I
> strongly believe that in the changed times, we
> should employ such means of resistance that are
> effective today. Violence in Western countries is
> not in our favour and it should be avoided like
> plague. I am not saying that we should compromise
> with our political and religious aspirations but
> we must respect the law of the Western countries
> and such acts of violence are very
> counter-productive.
>
> Kulbir Singh


Changed times - Kulbir Singh -- Your' HELL right what you wrote is not popular opinion. This DUSHT knew what he was doing and deserves the same.I am shocked utterlly shocked at your views.

NS44, I still maintain that such violent acts in foreign countries e.g. UK, Canada and USA are not good for Sikhs. I am not in a popularity contest; so it does not matter if you are shocked or utterly shocked.

Kulbir Singh

AGREE to DISAGREE -

I didn't mention u were in for a popularity contest - and nor am i sir, I already know you're way way advanced for being shocked.

However I remain in shock - because as Sikhs we are never to forget our butchers and who caused mayhem in Punjab - if otherwise the butcher has repented or begged for forgiveness then I could accept the commenst you are making. For such butchers your mind has to be tuned back to 1984 as none of that is out of my mind for any of these butcher - whether kps gill or brar or for anyone of the matter who caused mayhem in Punjab- for them it's eye for an eye - unless of course they have repented and apologised oe some sort of gesture towards Sikhs.

The comments u make are valid on people who atttack us with a pen not for people who attack with a gun- come back to planet earth Kulbir sahib jeeo

ns44 Wrote:

> Changed times - Kulbir Singh -- Your' HELL right
> what you wrote is not popular opinion. This DUSHT
> knew what he was doing and deserves the same.I am
> shocked utterlly shocked at your views.


vaheguroojee

ns44 jee, look at it from a logical standpoint, of course, Kulbir Singh is not condoning the actions of gen. brar, get out of your childish "bir ras" for a second and think about the situation, if the investigation of this stabbing leads the authorities to believe that it was led by gursikhs, it's gonna be a lot of trouble for amritdhari's in england, this kind of stuff is only giving the british government a wrench that would help them put a ban on kirpans in england, gen brar is as Kulbir Singh said, "a dead snake", there is nothing to gain from this except self satisfaction, on the flip side, there's a lot to lose, these events can even shake the foundations of our arguments here in Canada, if an anti-kirpan group, like the bloc-quebecois, were to bring up the legality of kirpans again, they could use this event in their arguments.

when the time comes for picking up arms, no one, least of all our amritdhari's, will back down, but right now is not that time, right now is the time to use our brain, not our brawn.

and think about it like this, can the punishment he's going to receive from the jamdoots even compare to this stabbing?

Quote

However I remain in shock - because as Sikhs we are never to forget our butchers and who caused mayhem in Punjab - if otherwise the butcher has repented or begged for forgiveness then I could accept the commenst you are making. For such butchers your mind has to be tuned back to 1984 as none of that is out of my mind for any of these butcher - whether kps gill or brar or for anyone of the matter who caused mayhem in Punjab- for them it's eye for an eye - unless of course they have repented and apologised oe some sort of gesture towards Sikhs.

Sure. But don't you understand how detrimental it is for Sikhs, when Sikhs are involved in violent activities in Western countries? Everytime we fight court cases for right to wear Kirpan, such incidents as this one or inter-Sikh fights at Gurdwara Sahibs are invoked in the press and courts.

Kulbir Singh

guptbabbar84

I love your comments about my mail as "childish "bir ras" and "use our brain, not our brawn" -- just shows how mature you canandians are here.

Nope I maintain that I Agree to Disagree .

Yours and Kulbir Singh's comments on prediciting the future as "foundations of our arguments here in Canada, if an anti-kirpan group, like the bloc-quebecois, were to bring up the legality of kirpans again, they could use this event in their arguments" are just nothing far from baseless comments. There has been many stabbings in the UK - and that hasn't banned the kirpan.

Get a grip guptbabbar84- come out from guptness - this butcher deserved it without a doubt so do all the others that are running around free with no case no justice-nothing. Have you forgotten how long Shaeed Udham Singh kept gupt before lashing out on odwyer - it was 25-30 years later. This action proves SIKHS WILL NEVER FORGET 84.

Apologies I sound harsh - but who pointed a gun - needs a gun - who attacks with the pen - attack with a pen. - My last post on this thread.

NS44, it is surprising that you don't understand the consequences of violent acts, in Western countries. You mention that there are many stabbings in the UK but that did not get the Kirpan banned but you are forgetting that the stabbings that you are referring to have been general criminal kind of stabbings and not political or religious stabbings. If someone stabs someone else, you hardly hear about it in the news but when the stabbing is politically or religiously motivated, then it becomes a big news. I again repeat that it is irresponsible to not understand the repurcussions of violent activities on foreign lands.

One of the 52 Hukams, said to be of Siri Guru Dasmesh jee, is that Sikhs should learn Rajneeti (statesmanship). Wars and battles are not won with weapons and might alone. Strategy, understanding your enemy, understanding the consequences of your actions etc. are important factors in winning a war.

Kulbir Singh

Bhai Kulbir Singh jee is right. This news is not as straightforward as it looks. Brar's wife says it was 4 bearded guys but also says she isn't sure if they were Sikhs. Based on the news updates coming, 4 guys stabbed a 78 year old man in the neck, he not only survives the attack but gets discharged from the hospital in a few hours. Any stab wound victim is not advised to travel possibly for weeks after the injury, but he is going to India tomorrow itself. Lets not jump to conclusions. This could be an isolated incident, a personal enmity, or God knows what. Lets not start bigging up whoever did this because we have no idea who they were and what their motive was. Singhs were those who recently sorted out the dushts who did beadbi of Guru Sahib's saroop and proudly surrendered to the cops. These 4, whoever they were seem to have vanished into thin air. Also, its not clear that the weapon used was a kirpaan (unless I missed reading it) as the 4 were not Sikhs (as per Brar's wife). So there is a lot of inconsistency in the news and most Singhs are already sensing something foul at play. We need to be extremely careful these days, what we talk about and with whom. Those of you using Facebook might know what I am talking about, so please better watch out what status updates you are putting up. I am not trying to cause an alarm or trying to scare anyone, but its a fact. And please spare me the "ਕੋਈ ਗੱਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਯਾਰ, ਸਿੰਘ ਨਹੀਂ ਡਰਦੇ ਹੁੰਦੇ" talk. I clearly know that and we all know that very well, but its best to be careful.

I can understand Kulbir Singh Jee's point about this not looking good in the west especially if the Kirpan was used. But Sikhs are currently a nationless nation. People who do not have their own nation don't have the option of prosecuting war criminals in the court of law. Such people are left with no choice but to use the law of the jungle as in this case.

Even if Brar is elderly and harmless now, he still is accountable for his war crimes. Take the example of the Jews. No matter how old a Nazi war criminal was and where he was hiding in the world, Jews would hunt down these war criminal and have them punished. If war criminals are left to live their life in peace, this will just give birth to more war criminals in the future who will kill Sikhs thinking there will be no consequences of his actions.

Let's not forget O`Dwyre and how Uddam Singh killed him in the very same country this recent attack happened. At the time all the world condemned this attack on O'Dwyre. Gandhi had called Udham Singh a terrorist because such actions made the Indian independence movement look bad. But today, that same Udham Singh is revered as a national hero by everyone(he even had a movie made on him staring Raj Babbar!). Similarly this attack on Brar was going to happen sooner or later and in the future it will be written in the golden pages of Sikh history as a glorious event.

I just hope the kirpan was not used in this.

Ns44 jee

Anything and everything shocks you. You need shock therapy.

Whether its lareevaar saroop or general brar.

Bhai Kulbir Singh would love nothing more to be that subhaagemaan who stabbed general brar. He's trying to suggest a logical way to help things without bringing more negative light on sikhs which hasn't helped in the past.

Please refrain from attacking gupt babbar and bhai sahib or any other forum member in the future.

-Upkaar Singh

Man the repsonse on this thread to my comments - you guys keep bringing me back to reply.

R Singh jee sees my point exactly.

Upkaar Singh jee - for you information if you don't understand I am and have always been for Laredaar saroop. Shock thereapy yes your welcome to give me some if you can darling i look forward to it anytime.

I apologize you see my comments as attacking they are just my opinions- you don't like them then you're welcome to reply as you did.

Yes Kulbir Singh I agree Kirpan is an issue in the western world - yes we can practice our religion here - they are not stupid enough to turn back the table over such an incident - they are way way mature enough for that.

What happened to your private message where you said I will not reply to that forum?

How do I take you seriously?

And please take jee out of my name. I'm probably younger than you age wise and spirutually.

-Upkaar Singh

[timesofindia.indiatimes.com]

LONDON: Scotland Yard has appealed for information from members of the public on the Sunday night assault on Lt Gen K S Brar, and described the four assailants as wearing dark clothing, long black jackets and having "long beards".

Stating that detectives were keeping an open mind on the motivation behind the attack, the police said in a statement yesterday that they were particularly keen to speak to people who assisted Brar and his wife after the attack on Old Quebec Street in central London.

No arrests had been made until last night, the police said.

"The four men are described as wearing dark clothing and long black jackets. They all had long beards. One of the men is described as younger and slimmer than the other three. They all fled in the direction of Oxford Street," the statement said.

"Detectives are keen to speak to anyone who was in the area at the time or who may have information about the incident. In particular they want to speak to those people who assisted the wife and the victim at the scene following the attack," it added.

According to Brar, a mobile phone had been recovered from the scene, which may help lead the police to the assailants. The police were also expected to go through CCTV footage from the area that has several cameras.

I still doubt if they really were sikhs who attacked the Dusht. I mean 4 young people couldnt even kill an old half dead snake..??
What if this is the work of the agencies to degrade the image of sikhs in the western countries...???

Upkaar Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What happened to your private message where you
> said I will not reply to that forum?

forget it - I replied because the comments here were over whelming so I had to.
>
> How do I take you seriously?

up to your discretion and judgement.

>
> And please take jee out of my name. I'm probably
> younger than you age wise and spirutually.

No way Jeeo - we're to remain respectfull no matter of age or spitirualism.
I agree there no point in discussing or debating this further until we're sure for definite it's Sikhs that did this. However - we will never forget 84 - these dushts remain to be punished by akhal Purakh or Khalsa whether with the pen or otherwise. - remain in chardi kala and Ardas to Guru sahiban.

Ex-Army Lt. Gen. Hoon rules out Khalistani attack on Brar

[www.newstrackindia.com]

On further investigation of this, many of the reports coming out seem a little conflicting. This may very well be a false flag operation to defame the Sikhs. Recently we have had Panthic Singhs getting arrested in India for no reason, some Canadian minister has said some very irrational comments recently about cracking down on activities of Khalistanis living in Canada. Now this.

First they said he was stabbed in the stomach, then in the neck. Some say he is in serious condition, yet now he is already out of the hospital despite having a stab wound? Apparently 4 young men could not take down this old man, that seems hard to beleive. Indian media is already showing how 'valiant' brar was for taking on 4 Sikh terrorists single handedly. Something seems very fishy here(ਦਾਲ ਮੈਂ ਕੁਛ ਕਾਲਾ ਲਗਤਾ ਹੈ). We can expect the police to crack down on Panthic Sikh in the west after this or if more such false flag operations occur.

Quote

ਦਾਲ ਮੈਂ ਕੁਛ ਕਾਲਾ ਲਗਤਾ ਹੈ

ਮੁਝੇ ਤੋ ਪੂਰੀ ਦਾਲ ਹੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਲਹਤੀ ਹੈ !!!

Remember
1. Singhs does not kill dead snake (as already mentioned many times in above posts)
2. Whether it is Shabad or Sword, Singhs attacks are always mightier.
3. Singhs never attack with covered faces because when we do we are 100% damn sure of what we are doing.

Those 4 goons are punks. It is well arranged political drama to defame Gursikhs. Media will sensationalize this because November is round the corner.

Benti hai ki Sikh apna Mann Nivaan te Matt Uchhi Rakho.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

This is to hard say whether he is a dead snake or not but he bears full responsibility of executing the attack on world’s sacred place Sri Darbar Sahib Complex. This Brar will remain part of war criminals for killing thousands of innocent lives in June of 1984, he will be known as part of Hitler’s regime for Sikhs.

As far as this attack is concerned, the way he was attacked, the involved poor suspects and the weapon used in the attack it is clear that this attack is not linked to Sikhs as a revenge for June 1984 ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਖ਼ਾਲਸੇ ਦਾ ਵਾਰ ਅੱਜ ਤਾਂਈ ਕਦੀ ਵੀ ਖਾਲੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਗਿਆ। This is act of someone else, period. Before blaming and defaming Sikhs for this attack ask the souls of cruel Massa Rangher, Indra Gandhi and Beant Singh that how a lion executes his attack.

Shame on Brar and Indian media.

With Regards,
Jasjit Singh

JASJIT SINGH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is to hard say whether he is a dead snake or
> not but he bears full responsibility of executing
> the attack on world’s sacred place Sri Darbar
> Sahib Complex. This Brar will remain part of war
> criminals for killing thousands of innocent lives
> in June of 1984, he will be known as part of
> Hitler’s regime for Sikhs.
>
> As far as this attack is concerned, the way he was
> attacked, the involved poor suspects and the
> weapon used in the attack it is clear that this
> attack is not linked to Sikhs as a revenge for
> June 1984 ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਖ਼ਾਲਸੇ
> ਦਾ ਵਾਰ ਅੱਜ ਤਾਂਈ ਕਦੀ
> ਵੀ ਖਾਲੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਗਿਆ। This
> is act of someone else, period. Before blaming and
> defaming Sikhs for this attack ask the souls of
> cruel Massa Rangher, Indra Gandhi and Beant Singh
> that how a lion executes his attack.
>
> Shame on Brar and Indian media.
>
> With Regards,
> Jasjit Singh


Spot On!

Gur Bar Akaaaal

-Upkaar Singh

The Indian media`s imagination on this whole affair is really running wild. They are making all sorts of claims and that too before the police investigation has even begun! This whole incident is smelling like a false flag operation to me.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

9 released on bail