Difference btw ਆਨੰਦ & ਅਨੰਦ !!

ਆਨੰਦੁ ਆਨੰਦੁ ਸਬ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਆਨੰਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇ ਜਾਣਿਆ ॥
ਜਾਣਿਆ ਆਨੰਦੁ ਸਦਾ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਪਿਆਰਿਆ॥
ਕਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਕਟੇ ਗਿਆਨ ਅੰਜਨੁ ਸਾਰਿਆ॥
ਅੰਦਰਹੁ ਜਿਨ ਕਾ ਮੋਹੁ ਤੁਟਾ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੇ ਸਵਾਰਿਆ॥
ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਏਹੁ ਅਨੰਦੁ ਹੈ ਆਨੰਦੁ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਜਾਣਿਆ॥੭॥



ਜੇਲ੍ਹ ਚਿਠੀਆਂ

ਵਲੋ -- ਸਰ ਜੋਗਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਵਜੀਰ ਖੇਤੀ ਵਾੜੀ ਪੰਜਾਬ,ਸ਼ਿਮਲਾ

ਪ੍ਰਮਾਰਥੀ ਰੰਗਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਓਹੀ ਜਾਣ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ,ਜੋ ਇਨ੍ਹਾ ਰੰਗਾਂ ਦਾ ਰਸੀਆ ਹੋਵੇ, ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦਾ ਭੇਦ ਓਸ ਤੇ ਹੀ ਖੁਲ੍ਹਦਾ ਹੈ,ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦਾ ਰਸ ਚਖਿਆ ਹੋਵੇ।
ਆਨੰਦ ਓਹੀ ਜਾਣਦਾ ਹੈ,ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਅਨੰਦ ਪ੍ਰਾਪਤ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੋਵੇ,ਜਿਸ ਦੀ ਅੱਗ ਬੁਝ ਗਈ ਹੋਵੇ ਤੇ ਅੰਤਰ ਆਤਮੇ ਸ਼ੀਤਲਤਾ ਪ੍ਰਵੇਸ਼ ਕਰ ਗਈ ਹੋਵੇ।ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਰਣਧੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਰੂਹਾਨੀ ਤਜਰਬਾ,ਰੂਹਾਨੀ ਰਸ ਤੇ ਰੂਹਾਨੀ ਰਸ ਹਾਸਲ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਸਹਾਦਤ ਹੈ।

ਇਸ ਸਬੰਧੀ ਕੁਝ ਲਿਖਣਾ ਕਿਸੇ ਰ੍ਸੀਏ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਲਿਖਣਾ ਬਣਦਾ ਹੈ। ਮੇਰੇ ਜੇਹੇ ਮਾਇਆਧਾਰੀ ਨੇ ਕੀ ਲਿਖਣਾ ਹੈ। ਭਗਤੀ ਭਾਵ ਐਸਾ ਹੋਵੇ,ਜੈਸਾ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਾ। ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਦੇ ਦਰਿਆ ਵਗਣ ਤੇ ਮਨ ਦੇ ਕਲੇਸ਼ ਇਸ ਤਰਾ ਮਿਟ ਜਾਣ,ਜਿਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਸੂਰਜ ਦੇ ਸਾਹਮਣੇ ਅੰਧੇਰਾ। ਆਤਮਾ ਆਪਣੇ ਸਰੂਪ ਵਿਚ ਇਸਥਿਤ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਸਤਿ ਚਿਤ ਅਨੰਦ ਵਿਚ ਮਗਨ ਹੋ ਜਾਏ।

ਮੈਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਤੁਛ ਤਜਰਬੇ ਤੋਂ ਇਹ ਕਹਿ ਸਕਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਕਿ ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਾ ਤਜਰਬਾ ਸੱਚਾ ਤੇ ਜਗਿਆਸੂ ਨੂੰ ਰਸਤਾ ਦਿਖਾਉਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਹੈ। ਧੰਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇ ਧੰਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਸਿਖ!!




My concern to post this is only Gurbani Uchaaran. Please care to Uchaaran/Pronounce Gurbani as it is written. Don't mix-up your ego into Pronunciation. Every single LAGA-MATRA is there for some reason!

ਸੰਤ-ਸੰਗਤ ਸਤ-ਸੰਗਤ every word has its own meanings according to Parkaran or Shabad, so please don't think that is same word and don't do same pronunciation IF YOUR EYES CAN SEE DIFFERENCE!. It will cause you wrong/miss understanding of that tuk or shabad.

If your the one who doesn't care about the Gurbani meanings then YOUR HELPLESS!!!!! Pity!!

If you wanna see,for whom Today I am feeling pity,just go to mirror and ask yourself DO I CARE WHAT GURBANI MEANS?? Promise you will see atleast something in mirror!! Dam it's not funny!!

Bhai Jasjit Singh and Bhai Kulbir Singh jeo... can you please putt some light on these words and their meanings in this Shabad!

If one gives a thinking to both the words ਆਨੰਦ & ਅਨੰਦ !! one may find that both the words are
also used as ਆਨੰਦੁ and ਅਨੰਦੁ. with matra of Aukad under last letter D.

So gramamatically both words find their use as SINGULAR and PLURAL so in this context
these words are references for GuR JOTi.

So far meanings of both words is concerned it is same. Both words differ only to meet the
Poetic requirement of Matra to be used as per RAAG s requirement.

It would be interesting to have some different views also.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Daas

Prakash.S.Bagga

prakash.s.bagga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If one gives a thinking to both the words
> ਆਨੰਦ & ਅਨੰਦ !! one may find that
> both the words are
> also used as ਆਨੰਦੁ and ਅਨੰਦੁ.
> with matra of Aukad under last letter D.
>
> So gramamatically both words find their use as
> SINGULAR and PLURAL so in this context
> these words are references for GuR JOTi.
> Bhul Chuk Maaf
>
> Daas
>
> Prakash.S.Bagga


I just used those words(ਆਨੰਦ & ਅਨੰਦ),because bhai Joginder Singh used them without Aunkad. As much I understood, Bhai sahib is referencing to the words in above Poudi in Anand Sahib.

It seems like error of the editor of Jel Chithiya or Bhai Sahib himself didn't use Aunkad while write this letter.
I think its more about Anand or Vigaas itself than GUR JOTI. The ANAND or Vigaas one can achieve through Parkash of Gur Joti.


For the above Poudi, Raag and Lagamatra rule doesn't work I think,because we are talking about same Sabad and same Raag. Though,it can be possible when your talking about two diff Raags or Shabads but not here in This Shabad.

In Gurbanee words one should not be selective in considering the application of
grammatical indications.

If any word is with a Matra of Aukad it has bo be considered as SINGULAR and the word
without matra of Aukad under last word has to be considered as PLURAL .

One should try to understand the meanings accordingly.

One can see that for all NOUN words there is a deifinite pattern like for the word
ਅਨੰਦੁ. we have the pattern as

ANANDu........ANAND...............ANANDAA

This pattern gives the clear understanding of the meanings of the words in context of
Gurbanee understanding.

It is a very common mistake to avoid the matra of Aukad under last letter of the word
where its avoidance would change the meaning of the words altogether different.
One such example is as

The actual word in Gurbanee is always SABADu GuROO whereas one can see mostly
written as SABAD GuROO.
There is a lot difference in the reference meanings of the word SABADu and SABAD.

Due to this general mistakes one is unable to get the true meanings of the messages
from Gurbanee.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Daas

Prakash.s,bagga
i

Quote

If any word is with a Matra of Aukad it has bo be considered as SINGULAR and the word
without matra of Aukad under last word has to be considered as PLURAL .

Bagga jee, as mentioned before, your assertion that any word without the maatra of aunkad has to be plural, is totally wrong. There are hundreds of singular nouns without Aunkad in the end. Here are just a few of them from Gurbani that will hopefully prompt you to correct your understanding:

1. ਸੇਵਾ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਸਾਧ is singular noun but still without Aunkad.

2. ਦੇਹੁ ਸਜਣ ਅਸੀਸੜੀਆ ਜਿਉ ਹੋਵੈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਸਿਉ ਮੇਲੁ ॥3॥
ਸਾਹਿਬ is singular noun but without Aunkad.

3. ਅਉਧ ਘਟੈ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਰੈਣਾਰੇ ॥
ਅਉਧ is singular noun and without Aunkad.

4. ਮਨ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਾਜ ਸਵਾਰੇ ॥1॥
ਮਨ and ਗੁਰ are both singular nouns but without Aunkad.


5. ਅਬ ਮੋਹਿ ਨੀਦ ਸੁਹਾਵੈ ॥
ਨੀਦ is singular noun but without Aunkad.


6. ਓਇ ਹਮਾਰੇ ਸਾਜਨਾ ਹਮ ਉਨ ਕੀ ਰੇਨ ॥
ਰੇਨ is singular noun and without Aunkad.


7. ਢਾਕਨ ਢਾਕਿ ਗੋਬਿਦ ਗੁਰ ਮੇਰੇ ਮੋਹਿ ਅਪਰਾਧੀ ਸਰਨ ਚਰਨ ॥1॥
ਗੋਬਿਦ, ਗੁਰ and ਸਰਨ are all singular nouns but without Aunkad.

The Aunkad at the end of a noun is removed for a bunch of reasons, and plurality is just one of these reasons. It would be good if you study Viyakaran books written by Professor Sahib Singh, Bhai Joginder Singh Talwara and Giani Harbans Singh. Without full understanding it is not right to write on the complex subject like Gurbani Viyakaran, thereby misleading your readers.

Another request is that when you make grammatical statements, please backup your statements with Gurbani examples. Otherwise, please refrain from making misleading statements. You have still not provided a single Pankiti where "Ekankaar" is plural as you wrote. How can Ekankaar be plural? No amount of Viyakaran can override a Gurmat principle and Gurmat principle is that Ekankaar cannot be plural. I appreciate your interest in grammar and you can be a very valuable contributor but please write after thorough understanding.


Bhul chuk dee Muaafi jee.

Humbly and sincerely,
Kulbir Singh

VEER KULBIR Ji,

Whatever I present here fs from the Books you have mentioned.I have read these books quite in detail and very carefully.
It is quite possible what I am presenting in KARTA KARAK you understand that in other KARAKS where it is stated that the plural words can be considered as SINULAR but without change in Gender of the words.


I may ask you one simle question and your answer may be very useful for my own understanding.
You say that the word . ਢਾਕਨ ਢਾਕਿ ਗੋਬਿਦ ਗੁਰ ਮੇਰੇ ਮੋਹਿ ਅਪਰਾਧੀ ਸਰਨ ਚਰਨ ॥1॥
ਗੋਬਿਦ, ਗੁਰ and ਸਰਨ are all singular nouns but without Aunkad

My understanding is that these words are PLURAL as KARTA KARAK .Ref pp62 prof Sahib Singhs Viakaran Book.

What is the PLURAL form of these words ਗੋਬਿਦ, ਗੁਰ............?

I look forward to your early response in this regard.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Daas

Prakash.S.Bagga

If you are talking about Karta Kaarak, then you should say so because Karta Kaarak is just one of the 8 Kaaraks and in other Kaaraks, the Aunkad is removed due to non-plurality reasons. In your posts you have been claiming that your statements were for all nouns. By studying just Karta Kaarak nouns, one can't make blanket statements for all nouns.

Also, I am asking again (perhaps 4th or 5th time) to present a Gurbani Pankiti that shows that Ekankaar is plural.

Kulbir Singh

VEER KULBIR SINGH Ji,

There are eight KARAKS for application of any word .Out of eight KARAKS one can see that only for
application of the word in three (SAMPRADAN...SAMBANHAK and SAMBODHAN) Karaks the word
PLURAL can be considered as SINGULAR.
And when any PLURAL word is Considered as SINGULAR such a NOUN is a COLLECTIVE NOUN
because fundamentally the word is PLURAL.

There is a difference in knowing that the word is SINGULAR or should be considered as SINGULAR.
Shouldbe considered as SINGULAR is conditional whereas there is no such condition for proper
SINGULAR word.

If you carefully see the grammar of Gurbanee words one can find that the use of matra of Aukad is
to tell about the number of (persons,place or things)
The use of AUKAD is for One person place or thing
The use of Dulakd is for two persons ,place or things together
The word without such matra is PLRAL for many persons,places or things

The above consideration is IRRESPECTIVE OF GENDER of the words

VEER KULBER SINGH ji,the word EKANKAAR is very much PLURAL I still maintain that.
In a Quote SADAA SADAA IKu EKANKAAR
Here the word EKANKAAR is PLURAL and is refering to many EKANKAARu.(SINGULAR)


Bhul Chuk Maaf

Daas

Prakash.S.Bagga

Quote

VEER KULBER SINGH ji,the word EKANKAAR is very much PLURAL I still maintain that.
In a Quote SADAA SADAA IKu EKANKAAR
Here the word EKANKAAR is PLURAL and is refering to many EKANKAARu.(SINGULAR)

Please explain how Ekankaar can be plural. Are you saying that Akal Purakh is more than one (Vaheguru Gustaakhi Muaaf karan)? And what do you mean by "many EKANKAARU" ?

Kulbir Singh

I am totally agree with Bhai Kulbir Singh jee at this point.Bagga jee please don't do wrong meanings of Gurbani according to your misunderstanding. You aren't clear in your views what your trying to say and please explain your views by providing Gurbani Pangties.

Apart from this,I request to both of you that please share some views about why there is use of Coma in above Shabad with word Anand and what's the difference. I am quite sure that there would be some other word with same difference in Lagga Mattra. Can you share those respective words or Pangties with such difference,even though they have been used in two difference Shabads.

I guess one would be ਆਗਮ and ਅਗਮ or ਆਗੰਮ ਅਗੰਮ. If we can share any of this kinda words with Gurbani Pangties, that would be great help to understand this concept.


Can we have something from Pro. Sahib Singh jee about this Poudi of Anand Sahib jee. his explanations would be really helpful!

Bhai kulbir Singh can u actually answer the the original question of this post please. I want to know the answer as well.