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Life after death

Posted by maha_paapi 
Life after death
August 13, 2012 01:15PM
Vaheguroo Jee Kaa Khalsa
Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh


I was researching more on what other faiths/tradition say about life after death and found following site, I have heard this in the past but not sure how relevant it is in terms of Gurmat Kasauti. It says that

Spiritual research has shown that man is comprised of the following four basic bodies:

Physical

Mental

Causal or intellectual

Supracausal or subtle ego

[www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org]

My limited understanding was that this body consists of Suksham shareer. Is this the same as subtle body described in the above article, does it futher has three more parts? Also they talk about 14 different planes. What is Gurmat's point of view on this?

Vaheguroo Jee Kaa Khalsa
Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh
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Re: Life after death
August 14, 2012 10:31AM
From Gurbanee one can learn there is nothing beyond the word GuROO.
One can look at this Quote from Gurbaneeas

"Nanak Kae Ghari Kewal Naamu"

It is all Naamu only.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Daas

Prakash.S.Bagga
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Re: Life after death
August 15, 2012 05:49PM
DEATH is and ART to a Gursikh veer jeeo - read on :

Kabeer, the world is afraid of death - that death fills my mind with Bliss. It is only by
death that Perfect, Supreme Bliss is obtained ||22|| (sggs 1365).

The Gurbani wants us to learn and practice the art of death, before we are overpowered by it. Thus, before death overpowers us, we have important things to accomplish by living a Gurmukh Lifestyle: becoming Gurmukhs, linking our unit consciousness with God or Realizing our True Nature as Pure Consciousness (Joti-Svaroopa), etc. It's said that the death for an ordinary person (one in material consciousness or the Manmukh) is very painful experience. The SGGS (Sri Guru Granth Sahib) says that this most painful experience can be turned into the "Perfect, Supreme Bliss" experience, just like other Joyful moments of life! The SGGS says that it's possible to attain this state of the mind while living in this body, hear and now. In fact, the SGGS not only talk about it, but also shows us as to how one can go about attaining it. Hence, in the Sikh thought, not only the birth, but the death is also celebrated. Instead of mourning, a true Sikh rejoices death, thus smiles at it. As the Gurbani says, the thought of death should fill one's mind with the "Perfect, Supreme Bliss" (Anand). How the death (Maut) can fill a person's mind with Bliss?

It will if one is free of attachments, otherwise it will be the worse torture. Upon the thought of death (Maut, Maran, Mrityu, etc.) if a person's mind can feel Joy, it signifies that that person is a true Giaanee or Wise (not because others call him a Giaanee; nowadays people call anybody Giaanee or Gurmukh!) who is free of all attachments. It implies that a Sikh is supposed to be a true Giaanee. If he is not a true Giaanee yet, he is not a true Sikh yet! The Gurbani declares that one who dies in the Shabad (Naam-consciousness) is truly dead. He is a Jeevanmukta (living-liberated). Death of the physical body does not crush him. With constantly hearing, perceiving and contemplating the Truth, his individual light links to the Supreme Light. In this process disappears his false ego-sense (Haume), the notion of "I, me, mine, you", and Vaasnaas of material life he lived in this mirage-like world of names-forms-time-space-and-motion. Only the Spiritual Silence and Intuitive Peace remain over. Then His Joy becomes Divine, and his suffering becomes Divine too. Accordingly, a true Sikh treats both happy as well as sad events equally in his life! Thus, known as a Gurmukh (Self-realized person) in the Gurbani, the whole life of such a person becomes a celebration itself.

ਕਬੀਰ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਰਨੇ ਤੇ ਜਗੁ ਡਰੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਿ ਆਨੰਦੁ ॥ ਮਰਨੇ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਪੂਰਨੁ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦੁ ॥੨੨॥: Kabeer jis marne te jag darai mere mani anand. Marne hee te paaeeai pooran parmaanand ||22||: Kabeer, the world is afraid of death - that death fills my mind with Bliss. It is only by death that Perfect, Supreme Bliss is obtained ||22|| (sggs 1365).
ਇਹੁ ਜਗੁ ਮੋਹ ਹੇਤ ਬਿਆਪਿਤੰ ਦੁਖੁ ਅਧਿਕ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣੰ ॥: Ihu jag moh het biaapitam dukh adhik janam maranam: This world is engrossed in attachment and (transitory) love; it suffers the terrible pains of birth and death (sggs 505).
ਸੋ ਮੂਆ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਨਹੁ ਬਿਸਾਰੈ ॥: So mooaa jis manahu bisaarai: One who has forgotten the Divine, is already dead (sggs 292).
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਮੁਆ ਹੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥: Bin sabadai muaa hai sabh koe: Without the Shabad, everyone is dead (sggs 1418).
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹੋਇ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨਹੀ ਮਰਨਾ ॥: Gurmukh hoi bahuri nahee marnaa: Become Gurmukh, and you will never die again (sggs 872).
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ॥੩॥: Gurmukh giaan tat beechaaraa joti jot milaaye ||3||: By becoming the Gurmukh (spiritually Being), who engages in Vichaar (Contemplation, Inquiry, Reflection, etc.) of the essence of spiritual wisdom (ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਦੀ ਅਸਲ ਸੂਝ ਨੂੰ); his individual light merges into the Supreme Light ||3|| (sggs 1131).
ਜੀਵਨ ਮੁਕਤੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕੋ ਹੋਈ ॥: Jeevan mukat gurmukh ko hoee: How rare are those who, as Gurmukh, become Jeevamukta - liberated while yet alive (sggs232).
ਕਟੀਐ ਜਮ ਫਾਸੀ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਸਗਲ ਮੰਗਲ ਸੁਗਿਆਨਾ ॥: Katteeai jamm faasee simar abinaasee sagal mangal sugiaanaa: Meditating on the Imperishable Lord, the noose of death is cut, all auspicious (or happiness springs forth within), and wisdom (about the spiritual life or Aatamic-Jeevan) is obtained (sggs 781).
Simply the Gurbani is telling us here not to lose strength by grieving on what is the nature of this body. The nature of the body is to die. Any object that can be seen with our material eyes is bound to perish; it's just a question of time. This is the nature of material objects. No denying that one feels pain upon the death of his love ones. But what the Gurbani is trying to tell us here is that our pain is due to our emotional attachments (selfishness) and doubts - more attachments and doubts more the pain and suffering.

ਦੁਇ ਰਾਹ ਚਲਾਏ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਬਾਏ ਜਨਮਿ ਮੁਆ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥: Due raah chalaaeae hukam sabaaaeae janam muaa sansaaraa: All follow these two paths, by the Hukam; the world is born, only to die (sggs 688).
ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ ਰੇ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਚਲਤੁ ਭਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥: Kaoun mooyaa re kaoun mooyaa. Brahm giaanee mil krahu beechaaraa ih tayu chalat bhayaa ||1|| Rahaou||: Who has died? O, who has died? Meet together with the God-realized being (i.e. the Gurmukh or Brahm-Giaanee), and inquire (Vichaar) into this; (upon Vichaar, you will know that) this (birth and death) is the nature of life! ||1||Pause|| (sggs 886).

The true Giaanee understands the fact that death is a part of life. Birth and death are but two points in time. Life and death, joy and sorrows, pain and pleasure, etc., are real to the man in bondage. But to the true Giaanee, they are all in the world-play (Jagat Tamaashaa or Leelaa). As the Giaanee is already dead while living in the body, what death can do to the man who is already dead? We Agiaanee (ignorant or unwise), on the other hand, feel sad when faced with death because we identify the Joti-svaroopa with the finite frame of the body. In other words, a true Giaanee thinks himself to be the Soul and has a body. To the contrary, the majority of us think we are the body and have a Soul. So long there is the identification with the body (error), there will be the fear of loss and death. But the same death fills the Giaanee's mind with Bliss; for he knows at last he is going to his True Home! Basically, the Gurbani here wants us to learn and practice the art of death as a real Giaanee does. Throughout the SGGS, the emphasis of the Gurbani is on practice (Karnee), not mere reading, listening and idle talking. Our Haume (false ego-sense) thinks we know the art of death, but nothing could be farther from the truth. As a matter of fact, the very nature of Haume is to be fearful. Therefore, in reality it's the Haume that repeatedly suffers.

ਕਬੀਰਾ ਮਰਤਾ ਮਰਤਾ ਜਗੁ ਮੁਆ ਮਰਿ ਭਿ ਨ ਜਾਨੈ ਕੋਇ ॥: Kabeer martaa martaa jag muaa mar bhi na jaanai koi: Kabeer, the world is dying - dying to death, but no one knows how to truly die (sggs 555).
ਹਉਮੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਗਤੁ ਮੁਆ ਮਰਦੋ ਮਰਦਾ ਜਾਇ ॥: Houmai vich jagat muaa marado maradaa jaae: In egotism, the world is dead; it dies and dies, again and again (sggs 555).
ਹਉਮੈ ਸਭੁ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਹੈ ਹਉਮੈ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥...: Haumai sabh sareer hai hayumai opati hoi ...: Ego is within all the bodies; and through ego the beings are born. Egotism is total darkness; in egotism, no one can understand anything (sggs 560).
ਹਉ ਨ ਮੂਆ ਮੇਰੀ ਮੁਈ ਬਲਾਇ ॥: Hau mooaa maeree muee balaae: I have not died - that evil nature (ego) within me has died (sggs 152).
ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਜਨੁ ਸਾਚਾ ॥ ਜਨਮਿ ਮਰੈ ਸੋ ਕਾਚੋ ਕਾਚਾ ॥: Tatt beechaar kahai jan saachaa. Janami marai so kaacho kaachaa: One who Reflects (contemplates - Vichaar) the Essence of Reality, is said to be the true person (ਉਹ ਸਚ-ਮੁਚ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਹੈ). (But, the one who) takes birth (just to) die (without realizing the Essence of Reality) is totally false (ਨਿਰੋਲ ਕੱਚਾ) (sggs 288).
ਗਿਆਨੀ ਜੀਵੈ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਸੁਰਤੀ ਹੀ ਪਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥: Giaanee jeevai sadaa sadaa surti hee pat hoi: Only the Giaanee lives forever (the spiritual Life, ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਸੂਝ ਵਾਲਾ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਸਦਾ ਹੀ ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ ਜੀਊਂਦਾ ਹੈ); he is honored for his intuitive awareness (that he ever and ever keeps engaged in the Truth) (sggs 1412).
The human body is a combination of matter and Spirit (Soul). The idea that there is such a thing as Soul (Self or Aatmaan) independent of the body is shared by almost all world religions. Although the word Soul has different meanings in different contexts, it is, however, generally agreed that the Soul is nothing material, and that it is the nucleus of our very Being. As indicated in the Gurbani, Soul is Eternal, Perfect, Pure Consciousness, Untainted Life Force that sustains the body, Immortal, Unborn, Ever-existing, Primeval, Non-destructible, Unbreakable, Insoluble, Changeless, Immovable, Invisible, Inconceivable, Immutable, Imperishable, free from limitations and conditioning. Being Eternal in nature, the Soul is never born nor will it ever die. It can neither be cut nor slain by any weapon, nor burnt by fire, and nor withered by wind. It is the True Image of the Divine Light ("Joti-Svaroopa"), which is unaffected by the movements of the body or the mind (Haume or ego).

ਨਹ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਹੋਗੁ ॥: Nah binsai abinaasee hogu: The Soul does not perish; it is imperishable (sggs 885).
ਆਤਮ ਮਹਿ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਾਮ ਮਹਿ ਆਤਮੁ ॥: Aatam mahi Raam Raam mahi aatam: God is in the Soul, and the Soul is in God (1153).
ਇਉ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਮਨ ਤੂੰ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਰੂਪੁ ਹੈ ਅਪਣਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ ॥੫॥: Iou kahai Nanak mann toon joti saroop hai apanaa mool pashaan ||5||: Thus says Nanak: O my mind, you are the embodiment or the True Image of the Divine Light (i.e., God) - recognize your Origin ||5|| (sggs 441).
ਜਿਨੀ ਆਤਮੁ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਪਰਮਾਤਮੁ ਸੋਈ ॥: Jinee aatam cheeniaa parmaatam soee: Those who understand their own Soul, are themselves the Supreme Soul (sgg 421).
ਓਹੁ ਨ ਮੂਆ ਜੋ ਦੇਖਣਹਾਰੁ ॥: Ouhu na mooaa jo daekhanahaar: But the One who sees does not die (sggs 152).
ਓਹੁ ਨ ਮੂਆ ਜੋ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥: Ouhu na mooaa jo rahiaa samaae: The One who is pervading everywhere does not die (sggs 152).
ਜੋ ਦੀਸੈ ਸਭ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣੀ ॥: Jo deesai sabh aavan jaanee: All that is seen is movement - coming and going - of consciousness (sggs 1021).

The majority of us have not yet become Gurmukhs, therefore we are tortured by the fear of death or loss. We are asked by the Gurbani to inquire into this death and find out what it is. If we follow the Gurbani's instructions and inquire: "To whom is this death?", then we will find out that which dies is not real us! What actually dies is the body which depends on the movement of the Praan or life-breadth. The body never has its independent existence. As we know, anything that depends on something else for its sustenance, must eventually decay and end. With the death of the body (Mirtak), dies the world of names-shapes-time-space-and-motion. God dwells within the cave our Heart as the Divine Self or Aatmaan. Unaffected by the movements of the body or the mind, the Aatmaan is not subject to our grief, despair, disease or ignorance. The Gurbani declares that the Pure, Perfect, free from limitations or conditioning, the Aatmaan is one with the Infinite Consciousness. However, as the body is made of five elements, it is bound in the framework of time and space. Upon its destruction, each element goes back to its respective source - the earth merges with earth, the air merges with air, the fire merges with fire, the water merges with water and the space merges with space. Only the Real Self remains over.

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਪਵਨੈ ਮਹਿ ਪਵਨੁ ਸਮਾਇਆ ॥ ਜੋਤੀ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਲਿ ਜਾਇਆ ॥ ਮਾਟੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਹੋਈ ਏਕ ॥ ਰੋਵਨਹਾਰੇ ਕੀ ਕਵਨ ਟੇਕ ॥੧॥ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ ਰੇ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੂਆ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਚਲਤੁ ਭਇਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਅਗਲੀ ਕਿਛੁ ਖਬਰਿ ਨ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਰੋਵਨਹਾਰੁ ਭਿ ਊਠਿ ਸਿਧਾਈ ॥ ਭਰਮ ਮੋਹ ਕੇ ਬਾਂਧੇ ਬੰਧ ॥ ਸੁਪਨੁ ਭਇਆ ਭਖਲਾਏ ਅੰਧ ॥੨॥ ਇਹੁ ਤਉ ਰਚਨੁ ਰਚਿਆ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥ ਆਵਤ ਜਾਵਤ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਅਪਾਰਿ ॥ ਨਹ ਕੋ ਮੂਆ ਨ ਮਰਣੈ ਜੋਗੁ ॥ ਨਹ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਹੋਗੁ ॥੩॥ ਜੋ ਇਹੁ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਸੋ ਇਹੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ ਜਾਨਣਹਾਰੇ ਕਉ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਇਆ ॥ ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੧੦॥: Raamkalee Mahalaa 5 || Pavanai mahi pavan samaaiaa ....: Raamkalee Mahalaa 5. The (element of) wind merges into the wind. The (element of) light blends into the (Al-pervading) Light. The dust (element of earth) becomes one with the dust (earth). What support is there for the one who is lamenting (i.e., the one who cries does so because of doubts and attachment) ? ||1|| Who has died? O, who has died? Meet together with the God-realized being (i.e. the Gurmukh or Brahm-Giaanee), and inquire (Vichaar) into this; (upon Vichaar, you will know that) this (birth and death) is the nature of life! ||1||Pause|| No one knows what happens after death. The one who is lamenting will also arise and depart. Mortal beings are bound by the bonds of doubt and attachment. As in a dream, the (mentally) blind man babbles and grieves in vain. ||2|| (the Jeeva: an individual being) comes and goes, subject to the Will (Hukam) of the Infinite Lord. (the aatmaan) does not die; because (in reality) it cannot die. The soul does not perish; for it is imperishable. ||3|| The Soul is not what we think it to be. I am a sacrifice to the one who knows this. Says Nanak, the Guru has dispelled my doubt - no one dies; no one comes or goes ||4||10|| (sggs 885).
ਓਹੁ ਨ ਮੂਆ ਜੋ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥: Ohu na mooaa jo rahiaa samaai: The One who is pervading everywhere does not die (sggs 152).

The true Giaanee takes this body and the material world as only a reflection of the Reality. However, most of us take this body and the world real (permanent), and live our life cycle only to find death at the end! To the contrary, the real Giaanee takes the life cycle backwards; he dies first, thus gets the death out of the way, and then he goes on living as Jeevanmukta.

To put it otherwise, the Gurbani wants us to understand that what comes and goes is unreal. That which is Real never dies, and that which dies is not Real. Since the true Giaanee's mind is already dead, he has no reaction to death. For him it's natural for the body to die, as it is natural for the incense stick to burn out. Therefore, the event of death itself is of no importance to a true Giaanee; for he does not react to events. It's not that the Giaanee has no feelings or that he has a stone-heart. In reality he is very compassionate for the suffering beings. If someone dies, he suffers with those who suffer. But he is aware that the for the Soul there is neither birth or death. The real Giaanee understands that which is born must die. Thus, death for him is a change in time and space. Since the majority of us identify with time and space, we are afraid of this change. The Giaanee, on the other hand, is unafraid because his state is beyond time and space. He is already dead (Jeevanmukta) to the phenomenal world. Consequently, the loss of this world does not affect him. The Giaanee is fully aware of the fact that death does not mean non-being. Therefore, he loves death as he loves deep sleep. To the contrary, an Agiaanee (an unenlightened being) loves sleep but not the death, because he does not perceive the world like a Giaanee. Since the instinctive mind (false ego) functions in the frame work of time and space, birth and death pertains to the body or mind only; but mistakenly they are superimposed on the Pure Self, giving rise to the delusion that birth and death relate to the Self. The Self exists before the birth of physical body and will remain after its death. Thus the birth and death are phenomena in the Self, but the Self ever remains unbroken and unaffected.

The majority of us are fearful of death, because we do not possess steadfast spiritual wisdom (Giaan). However, a true Giaanee is afraid of nothing; for he is fearless. It is natural for the Self to be fearless, but to be afraid of death or anything is not. Only the body-conscious person (Agiaanee) is afraid of death. Since the Giaanee knows he is neither the body nor the mind, the event of death has no effect on him. He is the Changeless Reality, beyond time, space and motion. He is Immortal, thus untouched by death. Knowledge, fearlessness and humility are inseparable in an Enlightened being (Giaanee). Enlightenment is attained when one identifies one's Soul with the Eternal Reality and detaches oneself from worldly objects. A Giaanee or a Realized being remains indifferent and does not expect reward for all his actions, either at present or in future. He accepts what comes his way and neither rejoices nor is sad. There is neither attachment nor repulsion, neither desire nor dislike. He feels Bliss from the realization of the Aatmaan (Soul-Nature) within.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਦ ਜੀਵੈ ਨਹੀ ਮਰਤਾ ॥: Brahm Giaanee sad jeevai nahee martaa: Brahm Giaanee ever lives and never dies (sggs 273).
Gurmukhs tell us that real Bliss (Anand) can only be experienced when all the thoughts (Phurne or wanderings) of the mind subside. Such purified mind (the state of Joti-Svaroopa or no false"I" or Haume) is eligible to be engaged in unwavering meditation (Naam -Simran or Jap) on the Eternal Truth. Knowledge (Giaan) alone is not enough - it needs to be accompanied by a clear understanding of what is the higher aspect of life and getting involved in the act of meditation (Karnee). Usually what happens is that we somehow attain knowledge (Giaan), but if the will for application (Karnee) - to meditate - is lacking, then there will be no real spiritual progress. In other words, despite of the knowledge (Giaan), if temptations and yearning of the senses continue then the knowledge is useless. In fact, such useless Giaan is nothing but ignorance. Meditation is like hitting the bull's eye. It demands arduous attentiveness. The wavering or restless mind full of thoughts is unable to concentrate. Meditation leads to the grasp of the Truth of the Ultimate Reality when one is able to overcome the mind's delusions that negatively affect us in life. The Self-realized person feels Bliss from the realization of the Aatmaan (Soul-consciousness) within. Thus, integrity of the mind, self-discipline and constant abidance in God-consciousness are the hallmarks of a true Giaanee. Death cannot fear such person. The Gurbani sums up the nature of the Giaanee as follows:

ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੈਸਾ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਸੋਇ ॥: Pranvati Nanak giaanee kaisaa hoi. Aapu pashaanai boojhai soi: Prays Nanak, of what nature is the Giaanee (the Wise one, the knower of the Truth...)? (A true Giaanee is he who) recognizes his (Mool-ਮੂਲ, Source, Origin, Essential Nature, etc.), such (Giaanee-ਜੋ ਆਪਣੇ ਅਸਲੇ ਨੂੰ ਪਛਾਣਦਾ ਹੈ) Understands God (sggs 25).
ਕਬੀਰ ਮਨੁ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਭਇਆ ਪਾਇਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥: Kabeer man seetal bhaiaa paaiaa brham giaan: Says Kabeer, when you become cool-minded; you attain Self-knowledge or God-consciousness (sggs 1373).
ਮਨੂਆ ਡੋਲੈ ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਧਾਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਰਤ ਆਤਮ ਗਿਆਨਾ ॥: Manoo-aa dolai dah dis Dhaavai bin rat aatam gi-aanaa: The mind wavers and wanders in ten directions, without loving devotion and Self-knowledge (sggs 1013).
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰੀਐ ਮਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਹੋਈ ॥: Gurmukh houmai maareeai manu niramal hoee: The Gurmukh conquers his ego, and his mind is immaculately pure (sggs 230).
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਬਿਬੇਕ ਬੁਧਿ ਹੋਇ ॥: Gurmukh giaan bibek budh hoi: The Gurmukh is blessed with spiritual wisdom and a discerning intellect (sggs 317).
ਉਲਟ ਭਈ ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਗਿਆ ॥: Ulatt bhaee jeevat mari jaagiaa: (When the mind) turned away (from the worldly ways), (it) became dead while yet alive and (it) has Awakened (ਆਤਮਕ ਜਾਗ). (sggs 221).
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਮਕਾਲੁ ਨੇੜਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥...: Gurmukh jamkaal nerhi n aavai ..: Death (Spiritual death - ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ) does not even approach the one who has become the Gurmukh. Through the Shabad, he burns away his ego and duality. Attuned to the Name, he sing God's Glorious Praises (sggs 231).
As long as one identifies with the body and the world of gross objects, there will be the constant fear of death and of losing one's possessions. It's through the Guru's Grace that one can hope to get relief from the fear of death. The Gurmukhs tell us that God is not to be reached by the fearful mind. Thus, unless one turns inward and seeks to know one's True Nature (Self-realization, fearlessness etc.), one cannot hope to link with God.
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Re: Life after death
August 15, 2012 10:39PM
ns44 Ji,

No offense but I was not looking for a stollen essay from other website. if you want to quote someone else atleast give them a credit.

[www.gurbani.org]

I don't have a confusion on Life and death cycle. Have you even read the link which I posted in my original post? The website actually talks about Japping naam/meditation and they say that when you die a *physical death* , based on the percentage of the Sato Gun ( one of the treh Gun) you will be projected to one of the 14 planes, where 7 upper planes are heavenly planes and 7 lower planes are hell like planes. Again I understand Gurmant doesn't agree fully to this philosphy.

ਤਿਹੀ ਗੁਣੀ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਸੁਤਾ ਸੁਤਿਆ ਰੈਣਿ ਵਿਹਾਣੀ ॥
The world is asleep in the three modes and doubt; it passes the night of its life sleeping.
ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਸੇ ਜਨ ਜਾਗੇ ਜਿਨਾ ਹਰਿ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਬੋਲਹਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ॥
Those humble beings remain awake and aware, within whose minds, by Guru's Grace, the Lord abides; they chant the Ambrosial Word of the Guru's Bani.

As for a Gursikh one has to go beyond three guns( sato,rajo,tamo) and acheive a turiya avastha ( beyond treh gunas), which can only be achieved by Jappingg Naam Given by Guru.

My doubt was mainly the composition of the subtle body, does it has four parts ( including physical body)? I have also heard this from some respectable gursikh but couldn't find anything in Gurbani. I wanted to validate this from the Sangat of this forum.

Thanks again

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa
Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!
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Re: Life after death
August 16, 2012 12:30AM
From Gurbanee one can know that
Human Form is the best opportunity to realise the union with PARBRAHM,PARMESAR,SATiGuR
Once this opportunity is wasted or slipped away there is again a cycle of Births and Rebiths

So one should try to learn from Gurbanee How to make the best use of this opprtunity to get rid of
this Cycle of Births and Rebiths.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Daas

Prakash.S.Bagga
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Re: Life after death
August 16, 2012 11:44AM
Bagga ji,

I think you didn't understood my question or may be I am not very clear. I am pretty clear on what Guru Sahib's hukam is and I don't have a iota of the doubt.

ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥
This human body has been given to you.
ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥
This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe.
ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਤੇਰੈ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਕਾਮ ॥
Nothing else will work.
ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥੧॥
Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; vibrate and meditate on the Jewel of the Naam. ||1||


Let me try to rephrase my question. My question is not related to liberation/union..

*I am not asking on how we can we achieve Union/Liberation* I am sorry if I am not clear the way I am forming the question. I am probably not very good at this.

But let me try again

What is the composition of this Kaya/Body/Mandar/Shareer?

My understanding from Gurmat is that we have a Physical body and inside this physical body we have a *Sukham Shareer* but during Vichar with a respectable Gursikh I came to know that there are four different parts as described in my first post. I couldn't validate it from the Gurbani. Can any of the Gursikh share his/her thoughts on the composition of the body?

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa
Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!
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Re: Life after death
August 16, 2012 12:59PM
Well there is no such description about the parts of body in Gurbanee as elucidated in other
religious scriptures.If there is any I must have overlooked.
In Gurbanee every description is related to three words GuRoo/GuRu and GuR.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Daas

Prakash.S.Bagga
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Re: Life after death
August 16, 2012 06:12PM
maha pappi jeeo

Many many Thanks for your beautiful kindes words of STEALING ESSAYS - from people like you I love to learn the most. So could you when you have a chance point in the right direction - as i thought sharing Gurbani translations ,essays was a way of learning I must be deeply mistaken.
I thought Guru Sahib wanted his sikhs to share the wealth , "Khavoo Kharcho ral mil bhaeee" -- so please point me in the right direction.
Looking forward to your reply.
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Re: Life after death
August 16, 2012 07:18PM
This has been discussed before maha_papi jeeo on this site "hopefully i'm not stealing" spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

[gurmatbibek.com]


And further maha paapi jeeo - parmans about the body do exist within SGGS read on :


ਨਉ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ਕਾਇਆ ਕੋਟੁ ਹੈ ਦਸਵੈ ਗੁਪਤੁ ਰਖੀਜੈ ॥ ਬਜਰ ਕਪਾਟ ਨ ਖੁਲਨੀ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਖੁਲੀਜੈ ॥ ਅਨਹਦ ਵਾਜੇ ਧੁਨਿ ਵਜਦੇ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁਣੀਜੈ ॥ ਤਿਤੁ ਘਟ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਚਾਨਣਾ ਕਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਮਿਲੀਜੈ ॥ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਵਰਤਦਾ ਜਿਨਿ ਆਪੇ ਰਚਨ ਰਚਾਈ ॥੧੫॥: Naou darvaaje kaaiaa kotu hai dasavai gupat rakheejai. Bajjar kapaat n khulanee gur Shbadi khuleejai. Anhad vaaje Dhuni vajade gur shabadi suneejai. Tit ghat antar chaananaa kari bhagti mileejai. Sabh mahi ek vartadaa jin aape rachan rachaaee ||15||: The fortress of the body has nine gates; the tenth gate is kept hidden. The rigid door is not open; only through the Shabad can it be opened. The Anhad Dhuni or the unstruck sound current resounds and vibrates there. It is heard by the Shabad. Deep within the nucleus of the heart, the Divine Light shines forth. Through Bhagti, one meets the Lord. The One Lord is pervading and permeating all; he Himself created the creation ||15|| (sggs 954).

ਦਸ ਪਾਤਉ ਪੰਚ ਸੰਗੀਤਾ ਏਕੈ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਸਾਥੇ ॥ ਭਿੰਨ ਭਿੰਨ ਹੋਇ ਭਾਵ ਦਿਖਾਵਹਿ ਸਭਹੁ ਨਿਰਾਰੀ ਭਾਖੇ ॥੩॥: Das paataou panch sangeetaa ekai bheetar saathe. Bhinn bhinn hoi bhaav dikhaavahi sabahu niraaree bhaakhe ||3||: (Within each individual - Jeeva - are) the ten senses as the dancing girls, and the five passions are as the chorus; they sit together within the one body. They all put on their own shows (ਕਲੋਲ), and speak in different languages (rouse different desires, ਕਾਮਨਾ, etc.) ||3|| (sggs 884).

ਨਗਰੀ ਏਕੈ ਨਉ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ਧਾਵਤੁ ਬਰਜਿ ਰਹਾਈ ॥ ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁਟੀ ਛੂਟੈ ਦਸਵਾ ਦਰੁ ਖੂਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਨੁ ਖੀਵਾ ਭਾਈ ॥੩॥: Nagaree ekai naou daravaaje dhaavat baraj rahaaee || Trikuti chute daswaa dar khule taa manu kheewaa bhaaee. Abhai pada poor taap tah naase kahi kabeer beechaaree ||3||: There are nine gates or 9 openings (these are: two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, one mouth, one genital, and one anus) to the one city of the body; restrain your mind from escaping through them. When the knot of the three qualities of Maya is untied, then the Tenth Gate opens up (God Realization - ਪ੍ਰਭੂ-ਮਿਲਾਪ ਦੀ ਅਵਸਥਾ), and the mind becomes intoxicated, O brother ||3|| (sggs 1123).
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Re: Life after death
August 16, 2012 08:08PM
Maha Paapi Jeeo,

I have read the link you provided, and it seems the writers of this site seem devoid of Gurmat. The teachings on that site seem very much in line with the teachings of the Radha Swami cult. In the midst of these 14 worlds where are the 5 khands that we learn about in Sri Japji Sahib?

Your Gursikh friend is mosly likely influenced by some samprada who is influenced by Hatt yog. These complicated philosophies and yogic terminology come through yogis who mainly focus on the body. They spend their time focusing on praan, bian, smaan, paan, udhiaan, pingla, and irha because they have not received the Gurus word. People devoid of Gurmat naam prefer to speak of salt as opposed to the cream because they have not received the milk ( gurmantar ) from Sri Guru JI.

No doubt there is such things as a sthool sareer a body made up of five elements, a sookham sareer a finer body, and sookham haumi ( subtle ego), but each part having counterparts seems confusing and outside of GUrmat.

Simply but , Sri Guru Ji states within the body is his jot only rare ones will seek him through Gurmat Naam Abhyiaas.

ਇਹੁ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਸਭੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਚੇ ਕੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੋਤਿ ॥ ਗੁਹਜ ਰਤਨ ਵਿਚਿ ਲੁਕਿ ਰਹੇ ਕੋਈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਕਢੈ ਖੋਤਿ ॥
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Re: Life after death
August 17, 2012 12:15AM
Quote
ns44

Many many Thanks for your beautiful kindes words of STEALING ESSAYS - from people like you I love to learn the most. So could you when you have a chance point in the right direction - as i thought sharing Gurbani translations ,essays was a way of learning I must be deeply mistaken.
I thought Guru Sahib wanted his sikhs to share the wealth , "Khavoo Kharcho ral mil bhaeee" -- so please point me in the right direction.
Looking forward to your reply.

If you want to share something fom other site , don't just copy /paste the text, also give the link just like you gave it for Gurmatbibek.com post . Ns44 jee, I am sorry but you again failed to understand my question.The only direct answer I got was from Sukhdeep Singh.

Sukhdeep Singh,

My Gursikh friend is not influenced with hath yoga or any samparda but thanks for your overall comments.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!
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Re: Life after death
August 17, 2012 01:34AM
One can give a thinking to a Quote from Gurbanee as

॥ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਏਹੁ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਹੈ ਗਿਆਨਿ ਰਤਨਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਮੂਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਨੀ ਮਾਣਸਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥
pp1346 SGGS ji.

There are several such quotes in Gurbanee which provide us with the real knowledge about Humamn Body
and or Sareer.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Daas

Prakash.s.Bagga
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Re: Life after death
August 17, 2012 12:30PM
Veer Ji, in brief, the above article classifies human body as below:

Physical Body (Including five senses and life supporting energy)

Subtle Body (Mental, Causal or intellectual, Supracausal or subtle ego, GOD principle).


It seems to be interesting diagnosis or analysis. I think more or less; it is in accordance with Gurbani and our understandings.

Regarding subtle body, Gurbani talks about Mind, Budh, Ego, ATMA, POORABLE KARAM and KAR KAR KARNA LIKH LAI JAO.

May be, the above analysis, can be matched as below:

Mental: Mind
BUDH and Ego: Causal or intellectual and Supracausal or subtle ego
ATMA: God principle
POORABLE KARAM:---------------------
KAR KAR KARNA LIKH LAI JAO.-------------------------------------

This is without any serious research on my part. Kindly improve upon it.
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Re: Life after death
August 17, 2012 05:23PM
Interesting debate so far - here's another couple of points on sooksham sareer:

Late Gian Sant Singh Jee maskeen on his katha tour - when he was in seattle Gurdwara in the US there was a happening there where sooksham sareer were present of Gursikhs and were seen by one Gursikh in sangat sitting right next to maskeen jee while he was doing katha. Maskeen Jee did vichaar on this quite in depth - if the sangat here want it, I'll post the link but only on request.

Secondly similar happenings of a sooksham sareer of a Gursikh was evident good 30-40 years ago at Hazoor Sahib - who used to hit the drum for readiness of langar opening. Sant maskeen Jee and loads of others witnessed this for years till it stopped. Again the vichaar is available - but i will only post here if it or may help maha papi jee on his quest this topic
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Re: Life after death
August 17, 2012 08:40PM
Related with "mind", comes the CHIT. I remember maskeen ji explaining like " when something is done repeatedly becomes habbit and part of CHIT." So, it should be also considered, as part of subtle body. Veer Kulbir Singh Ji to intervene please.
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Re: Life after death
August 18, 2012 09:21AM
Quote
MB SIngh
May be, the above analysis, can be matched as below:

Mental: Mind
BUDH and Ego: Causal or intellectual and Supracausal or subtle ego
ATMA: God principle
POORABLE KARAM:---------------------
KAR KAR KARNA LIKH LAI JAO.-------------------------------------

Thankyou Bhai MB SIngh ji, My thought process is very similar to your analysis and I totally agree with you on this.

Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji/ Bhai Jasjit Singh Ji,

Appreciate if you can also add your comments.

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa
Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!
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Re: Life after death
August 20, 2012 08:09AM
Bhai Not Paapi Jio,

Daas is still struggling to understand life while alive what to talk about life after death. For this subject I would recommend reading two books from experienced Gursikhs:

1) Gurbani Atay Science dee Roshni vich Akaal Purakh by Subaydaar Bhai Dharam Singh jee
2) UnDithee Duniya By Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee.

Wiith Regards,
Jasjit Singh
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Re: Life after death
August 20, 2012 10:57AM
Life is a continueing flow of CREATORs will.One is not required to know or understand this
as such an attempt would amount to deviate from a very strong message from Gurbanee
as
ਕਿਵ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਕਿਵ ਕੂੜੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਪਾਲਿ ॥ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Daas

Prakash.S.Bagga
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