SIGNIFICANCE OF SALOK GURDEV MATA GURDEV PITA

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
Our Guru Sahib Guru Gobind Singhjio has confirmed to Sant Harnam Singhjio that the Salok of Gurdev Mata Gurdev Pita, is to recited before and after our daily prayers for extra spiritual benefits>
[rampurkhera.com]
This is a gem of discovery for me
Dhan Dhan Gurujio!
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[rampurkhera.com]

Bhai Jeevan SIngh Ji always use to encourage SInghs to recite these verses as well before Nitnem.

It is the Salok of greatest spiritual and mystical heights, brought to this world by Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee. Gursikhs here in Toronto sing this Shabad everyday at the conclusion of Abhyaas in the morning. The singing of this Shabad invokes the great feeling of closeness with Guru-Jyoti - Siri Gurdev jee. When singing this Shabad, everytime the word "Gurdev" comes on the lips and tongue, the mind and the concentration gets pulled towards Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. A strong feeling comes to the mind that Shaheeda de Sirtaaj Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee uttered this great Salok with Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee in mind. Rest Guru Sahib knows.

What to talk about the Mehima of this Salok. Words have not been created to write the greatness of this Salok. The understanding and greatness of this Salok lies in singing or reciting it with concentration; and in doing Arth-Vichaar of this Salok. The second-last Pankiti of this Salok contains my favourite wish - Gurdev Sangat Prabh mel... It's a Benti to Vaheguru jee to enable us to have Sangat of Siri Gurdev jee.

So Bhai, ih Salok zaroor Japiya karo.

Humbly,
Kulbir Singh

This salok was also recited at AMrit SAnchar before the preperation of AMrit. THis is why Sri Dasmesh Pita Ji has told Baba Harnam Singh Ji to recite these verses before and after nitnem

At Amrit Sinchaar there is no Maryada of reciting this Salok. We must strictly follow the Amrit Sinchaar Maryada as is and not add or delete from it. Could you please quote some historical text supporting the reciting of this Salok during Amrit Sinchaar.

Kulbir Singh

Currently there is no panthic maryada which states the salok must be recited nor am I demanding the salok me recited at every AMrit Sanchar. But in the ancient days I believe the salok was recited. Im going to a Nagar Kirtan right now If I have time when I come back then I will post the reference , otherwise I will post towards the end of the week.

The Maryada is very clear and particular as far as Amrit Sinchaar is concerned. One Pyara each recites each of the Nitnemi Baanis and then one of them performs the Ardaas. As per Maryada, only and only 5 Baaniya and Ardaas are recited and then Hukamnama Sahib is taken. Immediately after that process of administrating the Pahul and Naam Drir begins. Where is there room for any extra Baani?

Already, there are some differences in Maryada but at least, for the most part, there is uniformity on which Baanis are recited. We should be very careful, lest we create a new Dubidha in Panth by suggesting the recitation of an extra Baani.

Kulbir Singh

Just to be clear one more time. I will never make the claim Amrit is not Amrit at the Amrit Sanchar if Gurdev Salok is not recited. Amrit is made from Panj banis/Gurmantar. Also, Im not saying Gurdev Salok must or should be recited at Amrit Sanchar. I do not have the authority to make such demands. Only the Sri Akal Takht has the right to make such decisions. However, I do believe there needs to be some level of uniformity of which banis are recited at Amrit Sanchar. Some people say three banis and quote panthic maryada, some people say only 5 pauris should be recited for Anand Sahib, some people include additional banis for Kabyo Bach Benti and Twav Prasaad. This is one issue the panth needs to address, but God forbid such changes occur during the current adminstration. If people like Satans Smajh are given liberty to make admendments to the Panthic Maryada it would spell DOOM for the panth.

Would be nice if Gurujio could appear before Panth and guide us like for Sant Harnam Singhji...nonetheless, Gurbani is Guru Jot now, so as Hukanama is taken prior to Amrit Sanchar, that should confirm Gurujio's stamp of approval if path done is sufficient?
Bhul chuk muaf

I forgot to mention as to why I believe this Salok was recite at the orignal Amrit Sanchar before the recitation of Nitnem Bani.

In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the Gurdev Salok appears twice. The salok appears both before Bavan Akhri and Sukhmani Sahib. Both of these banis are the biggest nitnem compisitions in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and both use to be part of the Gursikhs daily nitnem. Before Sri Sukhmani Sahib begins the Gurdev Salok ends with the following Hukum

ਏਹੁ ਸਲੋਕੁ ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਪੜਣਾ ॥
waaheguruu....

Baba Harnam SIngh Ji ( Rampur) would inquire from many learned individuals about the meaning of the salok. No Giani could provide a satisfying answer so Baba Ji did a humble ardas to Sri GUru Ji to reveal the true meanings behinds these verses. Sri Guru Ji appeared and exaplained that the Hukum means to recite Gurdev Salok before and after ones nitnem.

When we take Amrit we shed our past lineage and become adopted sons in the house of Sri Guru Ji. Sri Guru Ji becomes our mother, father, and sibling. We learn Sri Guru Ji is no other then Parmeshar. Whenever we begin any bani we should always invoke the Guru and praise him to the full. The panj banis recited at Amrit Sanchar are part of nitnem . i believe the following verses in Gurbilas by Bhai Sukha Singh indicates these verses were recited at Amrit Sanchar.

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੀਨ ਤ੍ਯਾਰਾ
ਪੁਨ ਅਰਦਾਸ ਕਰੀ ਬਿਸਤਾਰਾ
ਠਾਢ ਭਏ ਸਭ ਕਮਰ ਛਕਾਈ
ਤਿਨ ਪਾਂਚਨ ਕੇ ਅਗ੍ਰ ਸੁ ਆਈ
ਪੜ੍ਨ ਸਲੋਕ ਮੁਖ ਅਮੀਂ ਪਿਆਵੇ
ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਮੁਖ ਬੋਲ ਬੁਲਾਵੈ

Some people may interpret the word salok to mean Mool Mantar but Mool Mantar is not a salok.

Either way Im not saying it should be mandatory for every Gursikh to recite this salok before and after nitnem. Only Sri Akal Takht can make such mandates. On a personal level I enjoy reading these verses before and after Amrit Vela, and I am thankful that Baba Harnam Singh Ji has revealed the meanings of ਏਹੁ ਸਲੋਕੁ ਆਦਿ ਅੰਤਿ ਪੜਣਾ .

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

The procedure of Amrit Sanchar - especially the actual procedure of the creation of Amrit by the Punj Pyare (Bir Aasan, Banian, Khanda, Bataa, etc.) - has passed on from 1699 to present with relatively good consistency. Somehow, it would be highly doubtful that such a critical component such as an entire Bani would be eliminated, especially one that would be read twice (if we are to assume that the reference to Nitnem is being linked to the 5 Banian at the Amrit Sanchar).

The reference provided is vague and nobody has ever brought this point forward. Gurbani is full of Sloks - I could easily assert that the Slok in reference is the one at the end of Japji Sahib - Pavan Guru Pani Pita. Someone can say that Aad Sach, Jugaad Such Slok is applicable.

Making such a leap in interpretation borders on an active imagination. Please be mindful of such assertions on public forums where impressionable readers are present.

MS514jio,
This Salok accrding to Sant Harnam Singhji, was a Hukam of Guru Gobind Singhji, as indicated in Se Kinehiya>
331
SIGNIFICANCE OF SALOK GURDEV MATA GURDEV PITA
Whenever Baba Ji would recite a Sehaj path or give Santhiya
(teach pronunciation of Gurbani) to a new learner, he would come across
a specific instruction written at the end of the prayer of “Bawan Akhri”
in Raag Gauri by the fifth Guru. He would ponder over the Gurbani and
its meaning and why Guru Ji’s had found it necessary to write this
instruction. This Gurbani comes on page -262, at the end of which is
written a specific direction for the reader.
The divine Guru is my mother,
The divine Guru father and
The divine Guru is my Lord and supreme God
gurdayv maataa gurdayv pitaa gurdayv su-aamee parmaysuraa.
(Salok- page 262)
The above stanza of Gurbani appears twice, once at the start of
“Bawan Akhri” and then at the end of this prayer. At the end of the
Salok, the great Guru has clearly instructed, “Read this Salok at the
beginning and at the end”.
The motive of the great Guru regarding this Salok was not clear.
Baba Ji asked many scholars of Gurbani about its meaning. Some said
that instruction was applicable only for the prayer of ‘’Bawan Akhri‘’
and it meant that at the beginning and the end of reading this prayer, the
reader must recite the above Salok twice. Baba Ji used to reply, ‘’This
Salok is written twice, first in the beginning and then at the end, so it is
to be read twice, there is no doubt regarding that. Some would say,
”This sentence is not Gurbani, it is just a written statement.” Baba Ji
would answer, ‘’There are so many Salok’s in Gurbani which appear
twice in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but none of them ends with this
instruction to “ Read this Salok at the beginning and at the end.‘’
At last, when he was not satisfied, he prayed to the great Guru to
give him counsel regarding the special instruction and its meaning. The
tenth Guru, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji appeared in front of Baba Ji and
uttered, ‘’Bhai Harnam Singh! Whenever a gursikh begins nitnem,....

Please read till end of this chapter in Se Kinehiya (link given in my !st post), and I would like to respectfully say that we act also as His hukam...being an andley weighed down with 5 vices, I accept Santji's testimony in my personal nitnem prayers, and respect nitnem without this Salok at Amrit Sinchar...just to be able to be baptised by Guruji's Gem Parwasa of Canada, is like being able to escape jamdhoot which I do not doubt is my destiny if Gurujio's mercy prevails on the auspicious day.
Bhul chuk muaf

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Ks Jio, the post is addressing Amrit Sanchars, not Nitnem.

MS514 jEEO,

Perhaps I was unclear in my previous post or perhaps you have purposely exaggerated my post? This was the first sentence I wrote.

Quote

I forgot to mention as to why I believe this Salok was recited at the orignal Amrit Sanchar before the recitation of Nitnem Bani.

Just to avoid confusion let me make it clear

Gurdev Salok is not part of the Panj Bania when preparing Amrit-Naam. Gurdev Salok was not recited when/while PREPARING Amrit Naam.

I was simply stating I believe that the Gurdev-salok may have been recited before the preparing of AMrit Naam . If you read our history then you would know many banis were recited BEFORE the making of AMrit. SOme famous banis including the 33 swayas which is the first Khalsa Maryada ever given to the Khalsa. Even when I took AMrit there were many banis recited before Amrit was prepared some banis included Sri Sukhmani Sahib and Sri Chandi DI Vaar etc. THis is not some type of new maryada. When we take AMrit our mind is suppose to be focused on the panj banis. REciting banis before the Panj Bani helps strengthens our focus.

In regards to your statement

Quote
ms514
The procedure of Amrit Sanchar - especially the actual procedure of the creation of Amrit by the Punj Pyare (Bir Aasan, Banian, Khanda, Bataa, etc.) - has passed on from 1699 to present with relatively good consistency.

This is far from the truth. During the last 200 years or so there hasnt been much consistency in the procedure in creating Amrit. First very few AMrit Sanchar rectie the actual Panj Banis which include FUll JapJi Sahib , Full Japp Sahib. 10 swayas, Kabyo Bach Chaupey( Hamree Karo hath tey rachha to Kharag Ket meh Sharan Tuharee.) , and full ANand Sahib. Most people cut short the banis or they add additional banis to the original five. In addition very few Amrit Sanchars recite Naam while preparing AMrit nor do they given naam to the abhilakee. Naam is the key component in AMrit Sanchar and SIkhi. Only a few AMrit Sanchar in todays time keep the original tradition of preparing AMrit Naam.

Before painting a happy go picture try to think in practical terms.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Let me declare my intention at the outset: I post to clarify or provide a counterpoint because such forums are read by many people across the world. One thing I have learned - you can fix yourself and yourself only unless you are a Brahm-Gyani. I don't have time to maliciously exaggerate anything nor am I out to "get you" - please stop the paranoia. I post because your statements imply that the Slok is associated with the Amrit Sanchar to have you clarify your post.

The sentence you are providing, "orignal Amrit Sanchar before the recitation of Nitnem Bani." is absolutely not clear. When is before? 3 years, 3 minutes, 3 seconds? Is your position not stating that this was a tradition for Amrit Sanchars and thereby, implying that this is a lost Maryada? What in that cited compostion implies that Gurdev Mata Gurdev Pita is the slok in reference, and not another Slok? What Mahapurakh has ever associated the slok in question with the Amrit Sanchar if any? Are you simply putting forth your own interpretation, or are there other Sikhs in the world that makes the same association with the slok in question and this reference of Bhai Sukha Singh? Why would you make such an association without a secondary reference to back your claim (common literary standard)? Would you not agree that simply taking a reference of the work slok in the composition and relating it to Gurdev Mata slok is a stretch, when there are countless sloks in Gurbani?

I am not posting the questions above for a point by point answering (though I would not be surprised if it was provided). They are posted because the statements in your post open up so my questions and issues that it forces reconsideration of the proposed viewpoint and highlights that concluding that the Slok points to Gurdev Mata Slok is very weak.

In regards to the Amrit Sanchar: The 5 Banian are the same - there is nobody doing Bavan Akhri or Slok Mahalla 9 in the Amrit Sanchar. Batta is there, Amrit is there, Punj Pyare are there. Contrary to popular belief prevalent in the Jatha, Naam is given in most Amrit Sanchars - you can read the Panthic Maryada, Damdami Taksal Maryada for reference. Apart from a few differences, the overall ceremony is the same. Now, if you want to focus on the small variations that occur (Kakkar, Raagmalaa, Mool Mantar length, etc.) and avoid the overall consistency of the Amrit ceremony, that is your choice. But this is the problem inherent in the Panth - rather than seeing the vast commonality, we choose to bicker and claim superiority over the little things. If you still believe otherwise, please highlight what Jathebandi is not adhering to the minimum standards put forth by the Panthic Maryada (and note, even with Keski kakkar, Kes Rehat is still present, so it meets the minimum standard as the same minimums are still required).

Also, please check for inconsistencies before posting:

"However, I do believe there needs to be some level of uniformity of which banis are recited at Amrit Sanchar. Some people say three banis and quote panthic maryada..." - There is no group in Sikhi that advocates the recitation of 3 banian in the Amrit Sanchar, and if there was, they would be summarily booted from the Panth upon complaint to the Akaal Takht Sahib. Ragi Darshan/Missionary group tried to remove the banian of Dasam Patshah, and we all know their status in the Panth. Please inform the sangat of which groups are conducting Amrit Sanchars with abbreviated banian or are omitting banian while preparing Amrit - this is a very serious allegation that should be reported to the Akaal Takht Sahib. Even Amrit Sanchars conducted under the Panthic Marayada require that all banian be recited in totality, not parts thereof. Is there confusion between Amrit Sanchar recited banian and Nitnem banian to be recited daily by Sikhs?

Panthic Maryada documents the same 5 banian as everyone else. Uniformity has been established, and all Panthic Jathebandian meet the minimum standards that are set forth therein.

Lastly, on internet etiquette: Capitalizing and bolding the whole word is the equivalent of yelling. Please observe common internet etiquette and refrain from such practice. I know you think it is emphasizing, but that is not how it comes across. Also, the below statements are not conducive to a positive, harmonious atmosphere:

"If you read our history then you would know..." - implying that the person you are referring to (me) is uneducated in Sikh history. Do you really want to make such accusations?

"Before painting a happy go picture try to think in practical terms" - dismissive statements such as these are quite inflammatory and more often then not will evoke a response of equal, or more inflammatory, nature. I don't think any individual would not see these statements as challenging, offensive and inflammatory and lead to further negativity from the person these statements were addressed to. Please refrain from such use of language. I don't think you would use such language if/when you meet me personally, which we do on occasion.

ms514jio and Sukhdeep Singhjio,
You are both Gurujio pyarey, and very very blessed to be living where Sat Sikh community is majority...what I do ardas for daily, so I can enjoy the rest of my old age in happiness, as I did in childhood (when I was blessed with many Sat Sikh community)...I apologise for even bringing up this Salok, and as ms514jio correctly says, unless we are Brahm-Gyani, fixing our karam is in Akal Purakh Hukam/ mercy if that is our destiny, and following Gurmat, and sincere/ faithful sewa of Naam meditation/ simran/ Shabad Gurbani svaas svass is the key to rid all souls of 5 vices?
My ardas to live just beside Gurdwara in Sat Sangat community, in Punjab village like atmosphere...and ms514jio and Sukhdeep Singhjio have a good laugh over this issue, as Gurujio is the Puppeteer, and we are his puppets...otherwise like very unfortunate me, Gurujio takes us far away from our own community, and Gurdwara, where even Sunday Gurdwara does not give one the peace one desperately needs...because majority sangat only come for socialising/ have their maya ardas answered... more than to do sewa of Gurbani/ Naam...but this again is His khel?
Bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

MS514 Baba Ji,

Im sorry to inform you but majority of the Amrit Sanchars do not give naam today. You either do not understand what naam is or you or simply day dreaming. Naam does not mean Panj Pyaarey tell you Gurmantar is WaaheGuru and thats it.

Once again Im not suggesting or demanding Gurdev Salok be recited at Amrit Sanchars nor am I claiming my belief that the salok was recited to be accepted as the complete truth. So no reason to have a heart attack. I simply stated I believe the verses of Bhai Sukha SIngh to mean GUrdev Salok. You interpetation does not make any sense since you are saying it could mean aad sach juggad sach or pavan guru pani pita salok. Why would the beginning of Sri JapJi Sahib start then the Panj Bania start which includes Sri JapJi Sahib.

As I previously mentioned there are many banis recited before the Amrit sanchar even begins- meaning before the making of AMrit. Gurdev Salok is in praise of Sri GUru JI and teaches us GUru is our mother, father, brother, and Sri Akal Purakh. The imporatnce of reciting this salok also is mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for this reason I believe there is a possiblity that this verse along with many other verses could have been recited before the actual making of the Amrit. Before Sri Guru Ji gave AMrit to the Panj he sung 33 swaiyaas which is in praise of Khalsa. SO why couldnt Panj Pyaarey did not sing verses in praise of Sri Guru Ji before making AMrit. Just to be clear 33 Swaiyyas are not part of the Panj Bania and they are not recited when preparing AMrit

I kindly suggest you know blow my post out of proportion. Stating there were numerous banis recited before the actual amrit sanchar began is nothing heretical or misleading. If you finds these views heretical then you are more then free to write to Sri AKal Takht and report me.

ps
There is no reason to touchy over words as "happy go". I am more then happy to tell you this in person. The problem is you like to assume things which are far from the truth. I captalize or bold words so people focus on these words before they jump to conlclusions by what Im saying. Your first post made it look that I was claiming Gurdev Salok is part of the Panj Bania but I have stated from the beginning AMrit is made from the Panj Bania only. Again dont be so quick to get offensive and touchy. We should be able to discuss religion without taking things so personal.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

"You either do not understand what naam is or you or simply day dreaming. Naam does not mean Panj Pyaarey tell you Gurmantar is WaaheGuru and thats it."

Acha Ji...I don't know anything about Naam...except what the Punj Pyare told me to recite and how. Your statement is now making a very bold remark on the capabilities of the Punj Pyare to administer Amrit and impart Naam, something I will most definitely take offense to. Do I have to provide you the names and contact information of the Punj Pyare at the Amrit Sanchar that I was blessed with Amrit so you can interview them for suitability of being in the Punj Pyare seva and giving Naam? Perhaps that will provide an adequate response to your assertion.

On another note, do you consider that Taksalis (you know, group that has produced Sant Jarnail Singh, Sant Gurbachan Singh et. al.) are wrong because their Maryada states that the Punj Pyare are to initiate the Sikhs by "merely" telling the Gurmantar?.

"In the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, the Panj Pyare then make all the Singhs and Singhni’s stand and collectively repeat the Mool Mantar five times, investing all its spiritual powers into the initiates....In the same manner, Vaheguru (Gurmantar) is to be repeated five times and in the same way all its powers become invested in the individual, by repeating it in the presence of Guru Sahib. They are to utter the Gurfateh after this."

[www.damdamitaksaal.org]

You could always ask the Gursikhs at Manteca Gurudwara (a tap asthan of Sant Baba Thakur Singh) to answer your assertion that Guru Sahib cannot impart Naam by "mere speaking".

Akaal Takht Sahib has also given this "mere" saying to impart Gurmantar as acceptable, as is reflected in the Panthic Maryada:

"After this the five beloved ones, all together in chorus, communicating the name of Waheguru to all who have been administered the ambrosial baptism..."

SGPC.net - Rehat Maryada link (website is down currently, so no direct link).

If you consider the Akaal Takht supreme, then please also accept their acceptance of this methodology.

"The imporatnce of reciting this salok also is mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji for this reason I believe there is a possiblity that this verse along with many other verses could have been recited before the actual making of the Amrit"

I read a lot of "I believe" in your posts above. Ok, you believe, great. But there is nothing to verify what you are stating. You are not providing any reference to back your assertions, but continue to make them. I mean is this an inner revelation by Guru Sahib, some Sant Mahapurakh...what? Frankly, there are no references to the Slok in question being related to the Amrit Sanchar. You believe, but understand that nobody knows what the basis of this belief is. This is a discussion forum, so we are trying to find the basis of your belief.

"The problem is you like to assume things which are far from the truth. "

Character assassination much? Another broad accusation. The fact is that Bhai Kulbir Singh also found the same issue and posted it above. What other statements have I made that are far from the truth? If this is a general pattern, where are the other statements/posts/etc? Links please. You capitalize for your own reason...I am telling you how the rest of the world sees it.

"If you finds these views heretical then you are more then free to write to Sri AKal Takht and report me."

Nothing in this discussion has crossed that line.

"Again dont be so quick to get offensive and touchy. "

Is this a demand?

"We should be able to discuss religion without taking things so personal."

Please observe how elder Gursikhs converse about religion. There is Satkaar, Nimarta and usually a lot of reference to Gurbani and history, at the conclusion of which there is mutual love and respect. I am not seeing that here. Ever seen a Gursikh conversation where one Gursikh is accusing the other of not knowing the Sikh history, not knowing what Naam is, day dreaming? How about using terms like "Satans Smajh" (Vaheguru...these are your Sikh brothers!) Didn't think so. There is ample grounds here to get offended over.