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Why are there not Gursikh dairy farms in North America?

Posted by simmal tree 
VahegurujikakhalsaVahegurujikifatheh!

The condition for cows on ALL mainstream dairy farms is as follows:
- male offspring are separated from their mother and sent for slaughter for veal, or raised for eventual slaughter for beef
- female offspring are separated from their mother and sent to be raised for dairy farming
- dairy cows are kept impregnated in most farms, cramped in small living quarters, and treated inhumanely
- dairy cows that no longer give milk are sent for slaughter
- in Canada, dairy cows can be legally transported up to 52 hours by road without being given food or water.

It doesn't matter how much you boil that milk in sarbloh, how can it be bibeki if there is torture in it? Gustaakhi maaf karnaa. I do not mean any offence to rehitvaan Gursikhs, but this just doesn't make sense to me.

I can't afford to run a farm but there are so many middle aged, well established amritdhari gursikhs, why can't they create co-op dairy farms where cows are treated humanely?

VahegurujikakhalsaVahegurujikifatheh!
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Veerjee, do you know details of how something like what you're suggesting would be established? I'm all for the idea of Gursikhs owning their own humane and bibeki farms in North America, but it would be a very big project, and I don't think many people would know where to start?
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I agree bhainji. But it would be the same effort, or probably less, than building a new Gurdwara Sahib.

1) Buy land that is appropriate for farming or buy an operational farm
2) Build buildings
3) Get permits
4) Get staff
5) Get cows
6) Maintain the building, staff, cows, farmland
7) Get equipment, machinery, and make the product available to the public

It's a multi-million dollar project, but so is Khalsa School, so is Dixie Gurdwara and San Jose Gurdwara.

Advantages:
1) Jobs for Gursikhs on the land
2) Saving the lives of 10-15 cows from slaughter
3) Providing torture-free milk for lots of Gursikh families
4) Teaching Gursikh youth about farming and sustainable agriculture

If the land is big enough it could even have some fruit & vegetable gardens, some trees, maybe even horses & stables.
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you would also need to purchase a qouta which costs millions of dollars.....inorder to sell your milk to the public
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What many bibeki singhs in Toronto do is purchase their milk raw from small farms. In order for these farmers to be able to sell their milk raw (I guess thereby avoiding the costs of pasteurization and selling to the public) the farmers sell shares of the cow, so that anyone who owns a part of the cow can legally take some of its milk. If gursikhs wanted to be able to distribute milk from their own cows then this would be the obvious route to go, these already-established farms are an option in many places in North America for the time being that we don't have our own farms. I am pretty sure cows have better living conditions on these farms - not great, but better - and the milk meets much higher standards of bibek.

I don't have the option of getting milk like this, but I've heard that organic milk farms are also more humane? Not sure if this iis true.
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Simal Tree jeeo,

The sentiments and emotions you have expressed in this post are in accordance to Gurmat and it is perfectly fine if you, out of compassion, want to stop consuming dairy but ones who do consume dairy or other food that is obtained by employing bad working conditions on workers and bad living conditions of cows, are not breaking Bibek. As mentioned in another post some time ago, most of the food obtained from India and other such developing countries is stained with cruelty and atrocities against poor workers. Women workers on farmers are regularly sexually abused, workers are subjected to inhuman working conditions and even bonded labour is used at many farms. This is something I have witnessed with my own eyes, when I was a child in a village in Punjab.

In order to live, we have to consume food and food including dairy products is obtained through unfair means but when we buy food, we pay a price for it. We don't take it for free.

I don't hear any hue and cry about human working conditions but hear a lot of propaganda about living conditions of cows. It has become a fashion to be a vegan but I would dare vegans to also give up their vegan food that is obtained by unfair means in which humans are subjected to worse conditions than cows in dairy farms. How can they ignore inhuman working conditions of workers but raise hue and cry over living conditions of cows?

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The condition for cows on ALL mainstream dairy farms is as follows:
- male offspring are separated from their mother and sent for slaughter for veal, or raised for eventual slaughter for beef

This is an old practice. In olden days when they used to do farming using oxen, they used to keep the male calves but when cows and oxen used to get old, they used to be thrown out of the house and left in the jungles to feed themselves. The areas that were inhabited by Muslims, such old cows and oxen used to get slaughtered in olden days as well.

Even the oxen that were useful in farming were subjected to very bad conditions. Gurbani has recorded the suffering of an ox during the times of Bhagat Kabir jee:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ ਭਗਤਾ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕਾ ਚਉਪਦਾ ਘਰੁ 2 ਦੂਜਾ ॥
ਚਾਰਿ ਪਾਵ ਦੁਇ ਸਿੰਗ ਗੁੰਗ ਮੁਖ ਤਬ ਕੈਸੇ ਗੁਨ ਗਈਹੈ ॥
ਊਠਤ ਬੈਠਤ ਠੇਗਾ ਪਰਿਹੈ ਤਬ ਕਤ ਮੂਡ ਲੁਕਈਹੈ ॥1॥
ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਬੈਲ ਬਿਰਾਨੇ ਹੁਈਹੈ ॥
ਫਾਟੇ ਨਾਕਨ ਟੂਟੇ ਕਾਧਨ ਕੋਦਉ ਕੋ ਭੁਸੁ ਖਈਹੈ ॥1॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਸਾਰੋ ਦਿਨੁ ਡੋਲਤ ਬਨ ਮਹੀਆ ਅਜਹੁ ਨ ਪੇਟ ਅਘਈਹੈ ॥
ਜਨ ਭਗਤਨ ਕੋ ਕਹੋ ਨ ਮਾਨੋ ਕੀਓ ਅਪਨੋ ਪਈਹੈ ॥2॥
ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਕਰਤ ਮਹਾ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਬੂਡੋ ਅਨਿਕ ਜੋਨਿ ਭਰਮਈਹੈ ॥
ਰਤਨ ਜਨਮੁ ਖੋਇਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਬਿਸਰਿਓ ਇਹੁ ਅਉਸਰੁ ਕਤ ਪਈਹੈ ॥3॥
ਭ੍ਰਮਤ ਫਿਰਤ ਤੇਲਕ ਕੇ ਕਪਿ ਜਿਉ ਗਤਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਰੈਨਿ ਬਿਹਈਹੈ ॥
ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੂੰਡ ਧੁਨੇ ਪਛੁਤਈਹੈ ॥4॥1॥


Who doesn't know about the very cruel treatment of the ox used by farmers who used to extract oil? The ox is kept in dark, and made to work the machine day and night and even his eyes are covered to avoid distraction to the ox. Yet, everyone in olden days used to use oil (mustard oil). Mustard oil was just not obtained without gross cruelty on the ox used to run the machine that extracts oil. Now perhaps the oxen have received emancipation from this job because of modern technology.

The living condition of Teli-ka-Bald (the ox of the teli (one who extracts oil)) in olden days was many times worse than the worse condition of cows now a days. Yet everyone used the oil extracted by this mean in olden days. There is no mention in Gurbani or any Rehitnama about this practice.

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- female offspring are separated from their mother and sent to be raised for dairy farming

They are not necessarily separated and are kept at the same place where the milk giving mother cow is. But yes, they steal the milk of the calf but this is nothing new. This has been going on since centuries. The cow milk we drink is meant for the calf and not us but still since olden days and since times of Guru Sahibaan, cow milk has been consumed by humans.

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It doesn't matter how much you boil that milk in sarbloh, how can it be bibeki if there is torture in it? Gustaakhi maaf karnaa. I do not mean any offence to rehitvaan Gursikhs, but this just doesn't make sense to me.

I agree that for compassion reasons if you feel you don't want to drink milk, it is a good thing to do so but citing the condition of cows, a Fatwa to all Gursikhs on not drinking milk at all, cannot be given. The farm from where we get milk, the cows are treated fairly good and the farmer is a reasonable and compassionate person.

I am not in favour of cruel treatment of cows and other animals and believe that if anything, the conditions have probably gotten better than before. We should continue to work for improvement of working conditions of workers around the world and living conditions of animals working in dairy farms and regular farms as well.

Kulbir Singh
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Thank you for your reply Bhai Sahib ji.

Just for the record, being vegan is not a fashion for me, it is a personal morcha against animal torture. I think it is not just about being vegan, but about preventing cruelty. So, just to clarify, I would not be vegan if there was cruelty-free milk available.

And I also agree with you that we should fight against HUMAN exploitation also. There is a standard labeling convention for this, it is called Fair Trade. Any product that is labelled fair trade means that the workers were not abused, and were given adequate working conditions and a fair wage to sustain their living costs.



There is more information available here at Wikipedia as well as here at Fairtrade.ca.

I am not able to follow this completely because I live with my parents, but once I'm independent I will try to use more Fair Trade products.

Thank you for your patience and please forgive my mistakes.
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If we are going to spend so much of our energy and time in being Vegan and following Free Trade, we should also spend just as much energy if not more on keeping Sarbloh Bibek.
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(Reuters Health) - Older Icelandic men who remember chugging a lot of milk in their teens are three times as likely to be diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer as more-moderate milk drinkers, researchers have found.

That makes them wonder whether the years around puberty, during which the prostate matures, could be a time of heightened vulnerability for the gland.

"We believe that our data are indeed solid and provide important evidence for the role of adolescence as a 'sensitive period' for prostate cancer development," Johanna Torfadottir, a nutrition scientist and a graduate student at the University of Iceland, told Reuters Health by email.

"However, we remain cautious in our interpretation," she added. "Causal inferences are not made on one study alone, thus more studies are needed to confirm our findings and also to explore possible mechanism behind this association."

So far, she added, the two studies on prostate cancer and milk intake in adolescents have come to mixed conclusions -- one found milk lovers seemed to be somewhat protected against the disease, while the other found no link at all.

But both studies were small and couldn't distinguish between advanced and early-stage tumors, Torfadottir said.

By contrast, Iceland offers the perfect "natural experiment," she and her colleagues write in the American Journal of Epidemiology.

The country had little infrastructure in the early part of the 20th century, so people in rural areas tended to live off the land. That included lots of milk from farm animals in central regions of the island, whereas the drink was scarce in seaside villages.

For their study, the researchers used data from more than 2,200 men born between 1907 and 1937. These men had been part of a medical study started in the 1960s and, in the early 2000s, had answered questions about their diet in early and mid-life as part of another study.

Among 463 men who recalled drinking milk less than once a day in their teens, one percent developed advanced prostate cancer or died of the disease over a quarter century of follow-up.

That figure was three percent among the more than 1,800 men who said they drank milk at least daily in adolescence.

The gap couldn't be explained by how often people had gone to the doctor for check-ups, their education or other foods they ate, such as fish or meat.

How much milk men drank had no connection to their risk of early-stage tumors, however. And intake in midlife -- the age group most other studies have focused on -- didn't seem to matter either.

Torfadottir said there are several physiological mechanisms that might, in principle, explain the link between she found. But at this point, all of them remain speculative.

"From these data alone we cannot recommend that teenage boys should chance their dietary habits," she said. "We are only looking at the risk of one disease, prostate cancer, and obviously risks of other conditions, e.g. bone health, need to be considered."

PREMATURE TO SAY 'CAUSES'

Dr. Matthew Cooperberg, a urologist at the University of California, San Francisco, agreed.

"It would be premature to say that drinking milk causes prostate cancer," he told Reuters Health. "You can talk about association, but it is hard to prove causality."

He added that people shouldn't be wary of drinking milk.

"There are plenty of health benefits from drinking milk in adolescence," Cooperberg said.

Torfadottir also ventured a bit of nutritional advice, noting that it's "important to have a balanced diet and moderate milk consumption is a part of that."

SOURCE: bit.ly/tfmA1N American Journal of Epidemiology, online December 20, 2011.

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Simmal tree - jeeo - perfect and valid questions-- just a question to all Gursikhs here: how many are members of the animal rights organizations on this forum- ?? i am and i contribute to them since years ago
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This past weekend I went to a store in the US to buy raw milk to make cheese. The Milk we bought, was from a local farm. The cows are treated with respect and not like the videos we see online. They aren't tortured, this milk is much better than the one we drink now. It is not pasteurized or homogenised. But I guess Vegans will still not drink it because the cow is slaughtered at the end, ( I think). But Still much better than the milk we have at regular stores.
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