Gurbani on the Phone

Is putting Gurbani files on an iPhone, and other handheld devices appropriate for viewing and doing paath?
I ask this because there is no sucham, and Gurbani, such as Gutka's are to held with suchay hands.

Vaaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsaa Vaaheguru Jee Kee Fatehh!

you could always just hold ur phone with suchy hands
lol

Sukhsehaj Kaur

sorry, i meant to say SUCHAY hands

Sukhsehaj Kaur

I personally am not a supporter of doing Paath from these type of electronic devices on the go, it doesn't seem right. It's best to do Paath from memory or wait until opportunity to get freshened and cleaned up (panj ishnaan) to use Gutka Sahib. Many old school Singhs have the same view, but I guess with all these "modern" iPhone facebook msn generation it is quite common. Remember jee, this technological age is drawing to a close now.

It's of no significance to wash your hands and then touch the phone, because the phone itself is not sucha unless one is going to wash that as well. Whereas the Gutka Sahib is automatically considered Sucha.

I did have some Kirtan ringtones on my phone, but after reading the advice from this thread [gurmatbibek.com] and the words of Gyani Pinderpal Singh Jee I have deleted those as well, and now only keep the ring ring sound tune.

Rest, we can say what the Gursikhs say and tuhadi marzee hai jee

For nitnem bania (seven banis) it would be better to get it memorized

Most people buy phones on which they can download the Sikhitothemax app, and therefore access all shabads. Even during kirtan, some people tend to keep there iPhone or something else to read the shabad off instead of using a poothi. Some use laptops.
Again, how can a laptop be considered "Sucha"? Even if you wash your hands, that doesn't help, since the laptop itself is not "sucha" unless you wash that, just like Jaskirat Singh Ji mentioned.
So, would using a laptop also be considered wrong, since it cannot be "sucha-fied"? Would a Amrit Kirtan Poothi be better?

Vaaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsaa Vaaheguru Jee Kee Fatehh!

Kaurs4 jee, I also don't think it is proper to use laptop, phone, or PDA mounted on the vaja to do read shabds and do Kirtan.

Many Singhs, most famously Bhai Atma Singh Jee Panjokhra Sahib, are strongly against even using Pothi on Vaja as well, as they say beadbi occurs.

However, as we can see from this photo below, Pothi was used in Bhai Sahib's times on the vaja, so let us not get overly zealous:



I agree that best is to have shabads memorised to do Kirtan (easy for me to say, as I don't play vaja or have any shabads memorised), or failing that, to have the Pothi placed respectfully separately on a rael to the side of the vaja, which I have seen done in a couple of places.

Jaskirat Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I personally am not a supporter of doing Paath
> from these type of electronic devices on the go,
> it doesn't seem right. It's best to do Paath from
> memory or wait until opportunity to get freshened
> and cleaned up (panj ishnaan) to use Gutka Sahib.
> Many old school Singhs have the same view, but I
> guess with all these "modern" iPhone facebook msn
> generation it is quite common. Remember jee, this
> technological age is drawing to a close now.
>
> It's of no significance to wash your hands and
> then touch the phone, because the phone itself is
> not sucha unless one is going to wash that as
> well. Whereas the Gutka Sahib is automatically
> considered Sucha.
>
> I did have some Kirtan ringtones on my phone, but
> after reading the advice from this thread
> [gurmatbibek.com] and
> the words of Gyani Pinderpal Singh Jee I have
> deleted those as well, and now only keep the ring
> ring sound tune.
>
> Rest, we can say what the Gursikhs say and tuhadi
> marzee hai jee

I dont understand jee, whats wrong with having Gurbani ringtones? Isnt that becoming a bit too 'extreme?' What if you just let the full tuk continue and then answer the call? as thats what i do. Also it keeps your mind focused on Akaal Purakh and also blesses the Sangat around you with the Keertan. Surely its better than the "ring ring" tune?

Sorry for my mistakes jee, forever ur Charana Ki Dhoor.

Quote
Dhan Guroo Nanak
> I did have some Kirtan ringtones on my phone, but
> after reading the advice from this thread
> [gurmatbibek.com] and
> the words of Gyani Pinderpal Singh Jee I have
> deleted those as well, and now only keep the ring
> ring sound tune.
>
> Rest, we can say what the Gursikhs say and tuhadi
> marzee hai jee

I dont understand jee, whats wrong with having Gurbani ringtones? Isnt that becoming a bit too 'extreme?' What if you just let the full tuk continue and then answer the call? as thats what i do. Also it keeps your mind focused on Akaal Purakh and also blesses the Sangat around you with the Keertan. Surely its better than the "ring ring" tune?

Sorry for my mistakes jee, forever ur Charana Ki Dhoor.

Vaheguroo

Dear Veer Jee, I also did not think anything wrong with it either, but after reading the words of Gyani Pinderpal Singh Jee, I thought it would be wise to delete them. The reason for this, is that Gyani Jee is very knowledgeable on Gurbani, Gurmat, and history so therefore I respect their opinion a lot. Most of the time when Gursikhs say for us to do something it is only for our own benefit. So having heard that, I didn't think too much more about it and I have tried to follow on the bachans. I don't know what is extreme or not jee, but obviously I won't be going around grabbing Gursikh's phones and deleting ringtones from it or anything like that, and neither will I try and force opinions on anyone else.

Don't you guys think you're taking it a little too far?
I mean, I was under the impression that the age of technology is allowing papis like me get closer to guru sahib.

The way I see it, is that my iPhone has helped me stay in-tune with Guru sahib more than ever before.
When I'm at work, or on the go somewhere, I can easily access bani and keertan without delay.
I always used to find that while at work, on my free time, I would do other things that are not related to Sikhi.
However, ever since I got my iPhone, I've been able to use my spare time to memorize bania and read translations of shabads.
The best thing is, that when I get inspired by guru sahib, I don't have to wait and risk loosing that inspiration.

In regards to the issue about putting it on the vaja while doing keertan. I feel like, the only time I've ever done that is when the shabad is not in the pothi, and there are some cases where this applies. In a perfect world, I would be able to memorize the shabad and not need to use these devices, but in reality, it's better than constantly looking at the projector screen.

I think Bani is suchee, and if it's on the computer or on your iPhone/blackberry, there's no issue of sucham because it's not directly on a piece of paper that you can touch.
Let's be real here people, you're not doing beadbi if you're reading bani from your handheld device. If using this helps you get closer to guru sahib and helps you memorize bania, then I say, Go For It!!

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤੇਹ॥

Jaskirat Singh,

I agree with you. I personally think a Poothi is better than having a laptop. What is starting to irritate me is, that some - because of their own beliefs - think that they should "force" people to memorize shabads, and therefore don't put a Pothi beside the vaja, let alone on the vaja. I don't believe that this is right. Some shabads are pretty lengthy, and sometimes some words are hard to memorize. Without having a Pothi there, the Kirtani is forced to either memorize before hand, or sit there playing the tune, and wait for someone to tell them the right line.
I don't think this is right. Sure, having a shabad memorized is a good thing, but by not putting a Pothi there, I think this "forcing" is not acceptable. Some cannot memorize for whatever reason, so are they to not do Kirtan then? I don't think that's fair or right.

Also, I personally don't believe that one should place a Pothi on the vaja, as it is disrespectful because the vaja is not sucha. Majority of the Kirtanis don't wash their hands before doing Kirtan, and hence the vaja is never sucha. So by placing a Pothi on the vaja is doing beadbi of the Pothi, and I don't think that's right.

These are just my views.

Vaaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsaa Vaaheguru Jee Kee Fatehh!

i do nitnem from my ipod when im not at home or don't have a gutka with me. im trying to memorize my nitnem but it doesn't happen in one day. i think it is beeter to have a laptop or ipod while doing kirtan because i've seen a pothi fall from a vaja once

Remember with devices the bani isn't really there physically, it's light coming from screen, you could say an illusion. With gutke however the bani is there physically in ink and paper.

i think that is not good to set up gurbani ring tones on cell because some time we went in toilet and phones are in our poket and if call was came it could biadbi if ring tone are gurbani are ringing vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fathe

Heads up in the air
eyes rolled back
indescribable love resonating from their voices
the harmonium becoming fully harmonized with their emotions

tears rolling down glowing faces
from one parmaan to another
totally drenched in the amrit of every shabad

where have those beautiful keertanis gone?
the ones who reached up and beyond?

The ones with countless shabads not only memorized,
but gurbani flowing in every one of their glances.

We sometimes wonder why the happenings in puraatan jeevanis are no longer seen in sangat. The reason for that is our own inability to adopt the same practices of the gurmukhs that we try to imitate.

When we do keertan we need to understand what we are really doing. Doing keertan is bhagti. In Gurmat Karam Philosophy Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee writes about the happenings at rainsabaee keertans and describes how the flow of keertan would go. Upon meeting with fellow darshan pyaasees, gursikhs would sing gursikh milaap shabads. In a drenched state, the parmaan would effortlessly flow to darshan pukaars, and upon hearing the pain filled longings of gursikh bhagat jan, Guru Sahib would give his darshan. The love filled brides would be ecstatic with joy, and so would start the parmaan of Anand Mangal shabads. In a playfull state Guru Sahib would again go gupt from his pyare sevak, and this separation would prompt the keertanis to start singing in uncontrollable bairaag. This play of love would continue all night and often into the next day.

This is only possible with doing kamaee of shabads and doing kanthaagar keertan. The formula for achieving such high heights of bhagti is given to us, all we have to do is follow it. The same keertani doing a shabad from a pothi or iphone will have such a higher experience by doing the same shabad from their hirda. How can you mean what you sing if you can't even remember it?

it's good if you memorize path it would be easier to do path.

daas,
khalsaji.

I know it's good to memorize Paath, so therefore you don't need a laptop, iPhone, etc. to do you Paath.
My original question was whether putting Gurbani on laptop, iPhone, etc., is appropriate according to Gurmat. Since a cell phone, laptop cannot be "sucha" then how can be put Gurbani on such devices?
This question has been answered, and I see that different people have different views on this. I, myself, use a laptop during kirtan, because not all Kirtanis have their shabads memorized.

So now another question is, whether "forcing" people to memorize shabads, by not keeping a Poothi/laptop beside the vaja, is right. I personally don't think it is. I mean, yes, it's always good to memorize your shabads, that provides more Anand, especially when the person isn't consistently looking at the screen to see the next line. Everyone has the their moments, when for some reason they cannot memorize the shabad, or whatever else it may be. By not putting a Poothi/laptop their, are they not "forcing" people to memorize shabads, but also only allowing those with shabads memorized to do kirtan. Since I do kirtan as well, I know that I don't like the feeling I get when there is no Poothi/laptop, and I'm told to do kirtan. There's always that hesitation, because we don't have the shabad memorized, and we feel that maybe it's just better to not do kirtan, than to sit down for kirtan, and then totally forget your lines, mess up, and have to turn to those around you for the next line.


Preetam Singh,

I agree with you. But we have to keep in mind that we are not yet at the high levels of those Gursikhs. We cannot compare ourselves to them, or try imitating them. I don't feel that's right. Everyone needs encouragement to keep them moving forward, and perhaps some kind of "idol" to lead them. That's what all these Gursikhs should be for us. Inspiration, motivation. Sure, we want to be like them, not them.
Other than that, I agree with you, 100%. It's just that some things are easier said than done.

Vaaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsaa Vaaheguru Jee Kee Fatehh!

'kaurs4', using phrases like "forcing someone to memorize shabad" seems inappropriate. Is reading/singing bani a form of punishment? It is what we call in punjabi "rooh di khooraak". If this is what you feel about guru ji's bani, then it is very shameful. i don't think using electronic devices such as computer/laptop, iphone, is ok, in a mandal where there is kirtan going on, such things are distractions.

the raagi/kirtani should be so lost in gurbani, that their voice should be like an arrow piercing through people's hearts, and even those whose minds are so stubborn(lost in maya) become sikh just hearing the immense kirtan. this was the way of sikhs in the past.

preetam singh, the situation was way different back in those days. singhs were must in their aatam rang, and they wanted prabhoo milaap so badly, where as today everyone is lost in maya, and most people just do kirtan for a certain level of social status, not all though.
PS i will try getting that back, thanks for bringing it up

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fatheh

Even if one has to memorise shabads before doing kirtan in Sangat surely that's a good thing right. I think Kulbir Singh Ji once mentioned how Raagis in Darbar Sahib have to memorise all their Shabads and are not allowed to use Amrit Kirtan Pothi. This maryada must have been there from the beginning for a reason. Even now most if not all Gursikhs that come over from India seem to have all Shabads Kanth.

Pasri Ath Ghani,

Please re-read how I worded it. I did not say that people are "forcing others to memorize shabads". The quotations were only around "forcing", and that makes a big difference; the meaning is different itself. By not keeping a Poothi, it is an act of "forcing" one to memorize shabads. No, this is not a bad thing, I never did once say that. What I've been saying all along is that, there is nothing wrong in keeping a Poothi, even though having a shabad memorized is preferred.

Besides, my original question was should a PED be used to put Gurbani files on? The posts have gone way off topic. This is now become a question of should a Poothi/laptop be used during kirtan?

I understand that it's a good thing to memorize. What I don't understand is why some people decide to "force" memorization of shabads on others by not keeping a Poothi or a laptop. This is what I've been saying all along. Half of the people that have posted are taking this in a totally different direction.

Please, read the post carefully before you post a reply. Thanks all!

Vaaheguru Jee Kaa Khalsaa Vaaheguru Jee Kee Fatehh!

"WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATHE" KHALSA JIO DAS ARE NOT IN FAVOU OF GURBANI RINGTONES ON MOBILE BUT GURBANI LIKE SIKHI TO MAX AND OTHER GURBANI ADDED IN CELL CAN HELPS TO MEMORISE GURBANI AND ALSO HELP TO SATKAR OF POTHIES AND NITNEM GUTKAS WHICH WE CAN NOT TAKE WITH US EVERY WHERE BHUL CHUK MUAF JI.