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4 Gurpurabs today

Posted by Mehtab Singh 
4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2010 06:56AM
September 16th

Joti Jot - Sahib Siri Guru Amar Das Sahib Jee Maharaj
Gurgaddee - Sahib Siri Guru Ram Das Sahib Jee Maharaj
Joti Jot - Sahib Siri Guru Ram Das Sahib Jee Maharaj
Gurgaddee - Sahib Siri Guru Arjan Dev Sahib Jee Maharaj
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2010 09:34AM
Vaheguru!
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2010 09:41AM
Vaheguru smiling smiley
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2010 10:07AM
This doesn't seem correct.Guru Amardas Ji didn't give gurugaddi to Guru Raamdas Ji the same day he left his body. Same applies to all other Gurus except Guru Harkrishan Ji.
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2010 10:11AM
That's a very valid point Bijla Singh jeeo. In some cases, Gurta Gaddi was given quite some time before leaving for Sachkhand. Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee gave Gurtagaddi to Siri Guru Angad Dev jee months ahead of leaving for Sachkhand.

Kulbir Singh
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2010 10:44AM





Gurdwara Chaubara Sahib, Goindwal, Dist. Amritsar

This was the family home of Guru Amar Das who founded the town of Goindwal and settled down here upon becoming Guru on the advice of Guru Angad Dev. In this same house Guru Ram Das was installed as Guru in 1574 and Guru Arjan Dev was born here in 1563. Guru Amar Das left this world here in 1574 and Guru Ram Das left this world here in 1581.

[www.sgpc.net]

GURDWARA SRI CHUBARA SAHIB,
in a different complex which was once the residence of Guru Amar Das and his family, is the attic in which the Guru himself lived. It is a small room with a still smaller room entered through it. The Guru Granth Sahib is seated in the front room on a silver pdlaki or portable canopied throne. This room has doors covered with silver. The interior is decorated with stucco work inset with reflccing glass pieces and intricate designs in many colours.
KILLI SAHIB,
a small wooden peg (killi in Punjabi) now covered with a silver sheath, is fixed in the front wall of Sri Chubara Sahib on the outside. Guru Amar Das, it is said, used to meditate in the standing posture holding on to this peg for support. An embossed design on a brass plate above the Killi Sahib depicts Guru Nanak, flanked by Bhai Bala and Bhai Mardana, sitting under a tree. Another embossed sketch shows Guru Amar Das and his sons, Baba Mohari and Baba Mohan.
GURIAI ASTHAN GURU RAM DAS,
marks the spot where Guru Ram Das was anointed Guru. A brass plate donated by a descendant of Guru Amar Das in 1920 has etched on it the scene of the ceremony in which Bhai Gurdas is holding a whisk over the head of Guru Ram Das, Baba Buddha is putting the saffron mark on his forehead and Guru Amar Das is standing behind Baba Buddha, while Baba Mohari is touching the feet of Guru Ram Das and Baba Mohan is sitting in meditation on a deerskin. Next to them are figures of 22 prominent Sikhs on whom Guru Amar Das is said to have bestowed manjis, the insignia of appointment as preachers in their respective districts.
JOTI JOT ASTHAN PATSHAHI,
a small marbled pavilion next to Guriai Asthan, was built on the site of the room in which Guru Amar Das died on 1 September 1574. Guru Ram Das also died in that room exactly seven years later.
JANAM ASTHAN SRi GURU ARJAN DEVJI
is a room, in the same compound as Sri Chubara Sahib, where Guru Arjan was born. The Guru Granth Sahib is seated in this room.

[www.sikhiwiki.org]
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2010 12:10PM
Quote

GURDWARA SRI CHUBARA SAHIB,

i have visited this place... if i remember correctly, there is a glass case here that contains a piece of kes and chola of guru amardaas jee. it's just up the road from goindwal sahib, but is nearly empty of visitors (while goindwal sahib is always bustling).
it's so amazing to stand in the place where our gurus walked, meditated, and took birth. thanks for posting the info.



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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2010 12:40PM
Quote

This doesn't seem correct.Guru Amardas Ji didn't give gurugaddi to Guru Raamdas Ji the same day he left his body. Same applies to all other Gurus except Guru Harkrishan Ji.

after reading this i did some research and found that there are a LOT of different "nanakshahi" calendars out there. how do we know which is accurate? what is the best place to find the "official" calendar?
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2010 12:57PM
I did the same about a month ago and found many different versions. Nanakshahi calender has many mistakes and I have heard that it is based on 1999 dates instead of 1469. In 1500 Vaisakhi was on 27th March and in 1699 on 30th March. Vaisakhi had started coming 3 days late. So if Nanakshahi cannot fix this problem and is adding more mistakes then we rather stick with already inconsistent Bikarmi. You can look through our historical texts and Gur Parnalis to find out the correct dates.
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2010 04:57PM
ੴਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ॥

Guru Piyare Khalsa jio,

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ॥ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹ॥

Daas is writing this post just to aware our fellow GurSikhs over the calenders Sikh Panth have. I am not opening a debate over the NanakShahi calendar; however I disagree that we should go back to Bikrami calendar due to the reason that above 4 Gurpurabs fall on same day because of NanakShahi Calendar of 2003. Bikrami calendar also shows the same date for these Gurpurabs. Following is the image of Makkar-Dhumma shaap calendar.



Now daas will try to discuss on Bhai Bijla Singh Jee's thoughts on this situation.

Quote
NanakShahi calendar has many mistakes and I have heard that it is based on 1999 dates instead of 1469.

As far as daas learned that’s true but to make a calendar one must have the reference point to start with. This question also came to my mind that what reference PS purewal chose then after doing some search on this I find that he took reference of 14th of April 1999 with degrees and minutes at location of Sri Darbar Sahib, Amritsar to make the algorithm for calculations of previous dates. Why he could not take year 1469 as a reference which in fact makes it NanakShahi Calender? He explained the reason for this and for inaccuracies of dates as posted below:

*************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
THE CAUSES OF THE PROBLEM
The main reason for these errors was lack of availability of detailed almanacs (jantris) for earlier period. Historians and scholars had to work their way from scanty information available regarding the beginning of the Bikarami and Hijri years in relation to the Christian calendar. With good Knowledge of the Bikrami and Christian calendars one could convert the dates of one into the other with an accuracy of one day. However, in the case of lunar dates of the Bikrami Era the problem gets compounded by the adhika masas or malmasas or laund months - intercalary months. If the correct intercalary month is not known, when it occurs in a particular year, the conversion could be easily out by a month.

Dr Ganda Singh, realizing these problems, while working on his research projects in Sikh history, made noteworthy effort by way of calculating the beginning of the solar Bikrami years in relation to the Christian calendar. For these dates he gave the Hijri calendar dates and the tithis (lunar dates) of the lunar months of the Bikarami Era. He published his tables called "Mukhtasir Nanak Shahi Jantri" in Urdu language. In this almanac he also gave a table of intercalary months. It would suffice here to say that there are inaccuracies in the main table, and the table of intercalary months is not very accurate. Moreover, since the corresponding dates for Vaisakh 1 (beginning of the Bikarami solar year) only are given for each year, the Jantri cannot be of much help to researchers working with wide spectrum of dates. The Five Hundred Year Almanac for 1469 CE to 1968 CE (Bikarami 1525/26 to Bikarami 2024/25, Hijri 873/74 to1387/88), by the author of this paper, calculated according to Surya Sidhanta on daily basis would provide in one volume the facility to convert dates of calendars from one era to another without any calculation at all. Almanac is also provided for 1960 CE to 2000 CE calculated according to modern methods. This work could prove very useful to researchers, historians, students, speakers and laymen to fix date of a particular event in any of the given eras.

CONCLUSIONS
The problem of accurate conversion and of checking the accuracy of original dates given in Bikarami and Hijri eras was due to lack of availability of detailed almanacs and lack of expertise in this field by historians, and to certain extent due to the carelessness by the authors while working with the dates. This author's Jantri 500 could be of great help in solving this problem for the period 1469 CE onwards.
*************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Quote
In 1500 Vaisakhi was on 27th March and in 1699 on 30th March. Vaisakhi had started coming 3 days late.

It is not because of NanankShahi Calender, It is because of Bikrami Calender infact if Bikrami calendar continued Vaisakhi will fall on 27th of April in year 2999.

Quote
So if Nanakshahi cannot fix this problem and is adding more mistakes then we rather stick with already inconsistent Bikarmi.

There is no doubt that NanankShahi calendar of 2003 is not a perfect calendar because still dates of Holla Mahalla, Bandi Shorr divas and Parkaash purab of Guru Nanak Dev ji kept movable but that does not mean we should abandon this calendar. The errors and problems can be fixed if we do collective efforts of scholarly work and use more authentic resources then doing so over the time calender can be improved. America landed on moon not in overnight effort it was decades of planning and development to reach the goal. Making such a huge calendar is not a one man job it needs team work. What Purewal did was just a start which in fact was good start and this move should continue and should not be over shadowed by Makkar-Dhumma Shaap Calendar.

Daas hope the learned Sikhs should continue to support in this field too.

With Regards,
Daas
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 17, 2010 10:24AM
Jasjit Singh Ji, you misunderstood the point of my post. I am not against Nanakshahi calendar. We need a solar based calendar with fixed dates but I am against celebrating Gurpurabs on wrong days. History proves without a doubt that Gurugaddi was not given the same day as joti jot. I looked through Gur Parnalis quickly and found that Joti Jot of Guru Amardas Ji and Raamdas Ji was not on the same day. There is a difference of two days. Bhadon Sudi 3 will always be Bhadon Sudi 3 and cannot become Bhadon Sudi. I do not know too much about calendars but if Purewal can write a program to determine future dates then he can also determine past dates. Gur Parnalis give Bikarmi dates as well as days. Guru Gobind Singh Ji also provides dates and days. These can be used to get accurate dates.

I know it is due to Bikarmi calendar that Vaisakhi as well as other dates slip every year. This was my point. In 1699, Vaisakhi was on 30th March and Nanakshahi should fix it on 30th March not 14th April. It is inaccurate. My point was that since Nanakshahi has so many errors then it is no better than inconsistent Bikarmi. New calendar should be error free.
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 17, 2010 01:23PM
ੴਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ॥

Guru Piyare Khalsa jio,

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ॥ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹ॥

Sardar PS Purewal explains in this video for the reason of these 4 Gurpurabs on same date. Forward to 5:00mins. All 3 parts of this lecture are very informational. I think this lecture was taped lately in Gurudwara Dasmesh Darbar New Jersey.



Bhai Bijla Singh Jio, Thanks for clarification on NanakShahi Calender.

Quote
... but if Purewal can write a program to determine future dates then he can also determine past dates.

Following article explains in very detail about the conversion problems for some purabs for past dates: [khalsaspirit.com]

With Regards,
Daas
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 20, 2010 12:38PM
I personally would also love to see a finalised version of the Nanakshai Calendar, the Gursikhs don't even know which date to celebrate their Guru's Prakashs, Gurgaddis etc on! But seeing as it has effectively been outlawed by Sant Corp I don't think this is realistic possibility.

Maybe Bhai Jasjit Singh and Bijla Singh Jee you could share to your knowledge, most accurate dates of Prakash, Gurgaddi & Joti Jot of 10 Guru Jees in a calendar format for the sangat?
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 15, 2011 11:57PM
once again, lakh lakh vadhaiyaan
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2011 12:03AM
vadhaaee for the 2 Gurgaddee Divas occassions
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2011 07:28AM
Vaheguru!
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Re: 4 Gurpurabs today
September 16, 2011 03:27PM
Isnt there a difference between Joti Jot, Gurgaddi , and Gurpurab .

Gurpurab being birthday of avtaars . Gurgaddi
meaning date in which they became Guru, and joti jot the date they
left their physical frame.

If so, why is today considered Gurpurab? WHen Bhai Gurdas Ji says Gurpurab is he
referring to the physical birth or the day of Gurgaddi. I always assumed it was
Gurpurab.
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