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Meaning of this Pankti

Posted by J Singh 
Meaning of this Pankti
May 21, 2011 09:31AM
VaheguruJeeKaaKhalsaVaheguruJeeKeeFateh!

Sangat Jee, i needed some help with this pankti and i will be happy if the sangat could help me smiling smiley

ਪਾਂਚ ਪਚੀਸ ਮੋਹ ਮਦ ਮਤਸਰ ਆਡੀ ਪਰਬਲ ਮਾਇਆ ||
It is defended by the five elements, the twenty-five categories, attachment, pride, jealousy and the awesomely powerful Maya.

What are the 25 categories that are mentioned there?

VaheguruJeeKaaKhalsaVaheguruJeeKeeFateh!
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ਪਾਂਚ ਪਚੀਸ ਮੋਹ ਮਦ ਮਤਸਰ ਆਡੀ ਪਰਬਲ ਮਾਇਆ ||
It is defended by the five elements, the twenty-five categories, attachment, pride, jealousy and the awesomely powerful Maya.

According to one of the schools of Indian philosophy (Saankh Shastr), the Prakriti (Maya, matter) has 25 Tatts but this is not the philosophy of Gurmat because Gurmat is not in agreement with Saankh Philosophy that makes Vaheguru (Ishvar) dependent on Prakriti and meaningless without Prakriti. In Gurmat, Ishvar is all in all.

Therefore the meaning that most Teekakaars have derived of this word ਪਚੀਸ is 25 Tatts of Prakriti seem to be incorrect. In the light of the aforementioned, this meaning does not seem to be correct.

ਪਾਂਚ surely mean the 5 Bikaars, ਮੋਹ means attachment, ਮਦ means intoxication of Maya and ਮਤਸਰ means jealousy. The only problem is the word ਪਚੀਸ. It seems like the word ਪਚੀਸ is made of words ਪੰਚ+ਈਸ=ਮਾਇਆ i.e. Maya. Panch means the five Bikaars and Eesh means swami or owner or master.

The Pankiti in the light of above Vichaar would mean:

The Kot (fort) is protected by the agents of extremely powerful Pancheesh Maya namely 5 Bikaars, Moh, Madd, and Matsar.

Baaki Gurbani is Agam Agaadh Bodh.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh
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Re: Meaning of this Pankti
May 21, 2011 11:14AM
Thank You Kulbir Singh Jee
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Re: Meaning of this Pankti
May 24, 2011 05:45PM
Waheguru Ji Ka Khals Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Kulbir Singh Jeeo and J Singh Jeeo,

I feel the interpetation as below
ਪਾਂਚ - refers to the five vikkars as Kulbir Singh has correctly mentioned i agree
ਪਚੀਸ -- refers to the each of the five vices have 5 other elements each inside of us therefore 5*5=25
ਮੋਹ -- attachment
ਮਦ - has three meanings alchol,hankaar,humaee
ਮਤਸਰ- means EGO and not jealousy
ਆਡੀ - asraaa - to rely upon

In this body with having trust and (asraa) relying on maya the five vikkaars have further army of 25 others, have a listen here Bhai Sarbjit Singh does a wonderful job in translating this exact shabad of Bhagat Kabeer Jee from which this panktee comes from, and the beautiful thing is the solution is also inside the same shabad.:::

[www.youtube.com]

solution::
[www.youtube.com]


some others by Bhai Sahib are great too a real gem of a katha vacheck

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]
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ਪਚੀਸ -- refers to the each of the five vices have 5 other elements each inside of us therefore 5*5=25

This is the philosophy of Saankh Shaster and not of Gurmat. Also could you please list the 5 other elements that each of the 5 vices have?

The interpretation that this Daas did is not necessarily correct and more research is required in this.

Kulbir Singh
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Re: Meaning of this Pankti
May 24, 2011 06:15PM
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Kulbir Singh Jeeo , please listen to the youtube sent out particularly the first one --and the second.
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I did listen to it NS jeeo.

Sarbjeet Singh has interpreted Pachees as family of the five vices but this is the first time I am hearing that the 5 Vikaars have families as well and with their families their total number becomes 30. Please provide any backup for this claim.

This is why I requested you to list the names and details of this family of 5 Vices.

Kulbir Singh
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Re: Meaning of this Pankti
May 24, 2011 11:42PM
Bhai Kulbir SIngh Jee,

Based on your interpretation, would we put a Tippe on ਪਚੀਸ while saying/reading it?
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Re: Meaning of this Pankti
May 26, 2011 04:30PM
Waheguru Ji Ka Khals Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh

Kulbir Singh Jeeo - there are 8 parts to that youtube link of which Sarbjit Singh Jee goes into detail- and you're correct he doesn;t list the 25 separately but if you listen to it all you will gather them pretty quickly. I 'll give a basic count here:
1.- Five main big ones- kaam krodh lobh moh ahankaar,
2. then you have mumtaa -emotional attachment, Ego, jealousy, anger, Dukh , Sukh, Paap, Punn, Duality, Greed, Desire,cruelity, meree , teer,ignorance, intoxication, cleverness,false ego sense in action,In short, a fickle mind is false ego-sense in action. It's essentially akin to saying this: modification of one's essential being (concepts, percepts, thoughts or sense-datum), mental conditioning and limitations, disturbance of consciousness, material substantiality, psychological tendencies, mental disposition, relativist consciousness, ordinary consciousness, worldly or material consciousness, divided consciousness, deluded or illusioned mind, ignorant (of the Truth) or bonded mind, individualized consciousness, psychological construct self-image, instinctive mind, sense-blind mind, subject-object division, mundane consciousness, unwise mind, lower dimensions of the mind, realm of relativity, impure mind, finite consciousness tied to memory and tendencies, agitated or restless mind, mental aberrations, vibration in consciousness, finite intelligence, conceptualization, differentiated consciousness, unequanimous consciousness, "I-am-ness", bodily concept, conditioned or false self, uncentered or imbalanced mind, extroverted mind, consciousness caught in the memory of the past and anxiety of the future,sel; and so on.

Don't forget we also have :
Vaasnaas — the undigested desires, psychological conditionings, latent memories, innate tendencies, inherent inclinations, dispositions, obstinate clinging to a fancy or conceptualization — is the cause of delusion. According to the Gurbani, one with such fickle consciousness cannot appreciate his Divine Status, which is free from all conditionings.

Bhai Gurdas Jee's vaars back this up too:

prathhamai saas n maas sa(n)iououamadhh dhhu(n)dhh kashh khabar n paaee||

First of all, when no breath and body was there nothing was visible in the pitch darkness.

rakath bi(n)dh kee dhaehi rach paa(n)ch thath kee jhavith jarraaee||

The body was created through the blood (of mother) and semen (of father) and the five elements were joined judiciously.

poun paanee baisa(n)tharo chouthhee dhharathee sa(n)g milaaee||

Air, water, fire and earth was put together.

pa(n)cham vich aakaas kar karathaa shhattam adhisatt samaaee||

The fifth element sky (void) was kept in between and creator God, the sixth one, invisibly permeated among all.

pa(n)ch thath pa(n)chees gaiun sathr mithr mil dhaehi banaaee||

To create the human body, five elements and twenty five qualities opposite to each other were joined and mixed.


khaanee baanee chalith kar aavaa goun charithr dhikhaaee||

Four life originating mines (egg, foetus, sweat born, vegetation) and four speeches (para, pasyanti, madhyama, vaikhari) were assimilated into each other and the drama of transmigration was enacted.

chouraaseeh lakh jon oupaaee ||2||

Thus eighty four lacs of species were created.(2)


Late Sant Singhmaskeen Jee once did vichaar on how the 25 are linked to the 5 also, i listened to it some years ago, will dig up my files and post the links here in too if need be.

not sure where you're getting information of "philosophy of Saankh Shaster and not of Gurmat." relating to the twenty five as I cannot see any reference in any shabad that relates the 25 as sankh shaster??
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Thanks for the detailed Vichaar, NS jeeo.

Quote

not sure where you're getting information of "philosophy of Saankh Shaster and not of Gurmat." relating to the twenty five as I cannot see any reference in any shabad that relates the 25 as sankh shaster??

Many translators including Professor Sahib Singh made reference to Saankh Shaster when describing "Pachees". This did not make sense because, Gurmat is not in agreement with Saankh.

Second thing is that Sarbjeet Singh has interpreted Paanch as 5 Bikaars and Pachees as family of the 5 Bikaars. I too originally thought that Panch was 5 vices but if you look at the rest of the Pankiti, "Moh" is mentioned separately from "Panch" implying that "Panch" here does not mean 5 Bikaars but 5 Tatts.

According to Bhai Gurdaas jee's quote that you quoted, it seems like Panchees means different forms or subdivisions of 5 Tatt of Kudrat or Prakriti.

More research is required in this field and we need to expand on Pachees to pinpoint what exactly it means.

Kulbir Singh
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