Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaaj traveled to America !!!

ੴਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਹ॥

Guru Khalsa jio,

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki fateh

Although may be more research is needed but this is quite interesting that recently a Sikh discovered that Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj traveled to America at the time of fourth world odyssey (Udaasi).
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America's First Legislature Passes Bill Against Slave-Trading, in 1619,First Tribute to The Efforts of Satguru Nanak Sahib.

Slaves were sent to North Carolina and Georgetown in South Carolina in November-December, 1517, via Bahamas, by The Roman Empire from Spain. Charles -V, The Roman Emperor, had issued a license of 4000 slaves in June 1517.Satguru reached North Carolina from Cuba, on the Ship of Hernando Cortez( Ref.PP14 of First Encouters, Spainish Explorations in the Caribbean and the United States, 1492-157). He had asked the King Afonso-I, of Kongo, to stop slave trading( Ref. King of Congo`s letter dated Feb. 16, 1520 and 1526(Which are given in my article`` Satguru Nanak Sahib Meeting King Afonso-I of Kongo).

I was talking that Satguru reached North Carolina( Fort Roanoke Island) from Cuba by a ship, and all the slaves and other crew members call Almighty Satguru and Bhai Sahib Mardana Ji," Jihaji-Bhai"( Ref.PP 75&79 of Hindu Trinidad, Religion, Ethnicity, And Socio-Economic Change, by Steven Vertovec). There was epidemic of Small-pox among slaves and other people.Satguru spent almost one months with the Cuban people, who called him and Bhai sahib Mardana Ji as`` Apostle of the Indians``( ref. PP 29, of History of Cuba, and Its Relations With United States, Vol. I, by Philip S. Foner from 1492-1845).This page further elaboretes that ---who was better acquainted with the Cuban Indians and their customs than any other Spainard, in a report to the King of Spain.(Please note that King of Spain, (The Roman Emperor) sent some Friars from Spain after Satguru left Cuba.These friars submitted a report to The King of Spain, described the injustices and cruelties which the Indian Suffered under the ``encomienda`` system.(encomienda is a labour system applied by the Spanish Crown).

Satguru Nanak Sahib reached Roanoke Island and visited the Fort and realised the importance of human life and the penalties of God for cruel administrators.As slaves, both Bhai Mardana ji and Almighty Satguru spend some days with the slaves, and ensured their release.They sang a Holy Shabad of Kabir Ji and translate this Holy Shabad into Persian, which was compulsory for every trader, navigator, politician, scientist etc.Persian was the official language of Ottoman Empire and was spoken in Africa and Middle -East and elsewhere.The Holy Diwan of Satguru was held afternoon. Bhai Mardana Ji was asked to play Rag Sarang,Holy Page No. 1252 of SGGS.`` Raja Shram(Castle or Fort) Mit Nahin Jani Teri. Tere Santan Ki Hao Cheri.Rahao. Hasto Jae So Rowat Aawe Rowat Jae So Hasse.Basto Hoe Hoe So Ujjarh Ujjarh Hoe So Basse.Jal Te Thal Kar Thal Te Kooa Kup Te Mer Kraway.Dharti Te Akash Chraway Charhey Akash Girawe. Bhikhari Te Raj Kraway Raja Te Bhikhari.Khal Murekh Te Pandit Karbo Pandit Te Mughdhari.Nari Te Jo Purakh Kraway Purakhan Te Jo Nari.Kah Kabir Sadhu Ko Pritam Tis Murat Blihari.``.Satguru translate this Holy Shabad in this way.This fort has not realised the power of Almighty God.I am the disciple of His devotees.God can make a person wail, who is earlier laughing.where as a person was laughing earlier, is bound to weep.A person was inhabited a place, God can make him go away.A peson who was earlier roaming about, can inhabit a place.It is His competancy to rise a place or make a mountain, a deep place.He can make you known in the world.If unwilling, He can make you unknown in the whole world.He can make you a wise, where as, if He desires, can turn you a foolish.He develops a man from a woman( man and woman take birth from a woman), where as a woman has the blood of a man.Kabir says that He is the owner of every one, and I Sacrifice myself on His Holy Name.The first legislature in America passed the first bill against forced labour, in 1619( Ref PP 28 of Journal of The House of Burgesses of Virginia.Earlier, the house passed a bill not to convert a person to christianity, by Force(ref.PP10 of the same journal).This Govt. Publications, I got by the courtesy of University of Toronto and Govt. of Virginia, vide letter dated May 5, 2010, in my personal name.

Retrieval Form of University of Toronto For Govt. of Virginia:

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continued on ...
[satguru.weebly.com]

Satguru Nanak Sahib Was Called" Jihaji-Bhai" in North-Carolina & Virginia.

One question: how did Shiri Guru Naanak Dev ji reach Amrika?

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SLAVES WITH SHIRI GURU NANAK DEV JI

I remember last year I read Harpal Singh's website and had a dire urge to meet him. A few weeks later, Satguru Ji did Kirpa and I bumped into him during school. He was doing research at that time, proving Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji went to Rome and met Martin Luther. He would have had much more success with his research but he said SGPC refused to fund any of his research (he was in need of translators of Latin and other languages). Last time I talked to him, he told me he was almost finished writing his book. He has found precious info that proves Guru Nanak was indeed Jagat Guru. Info that he has been gathering from all over the world for the last few decades.

Gurman Singh, I think I recall now. I think you were telling me about this Singh some time ago. Whats the name of his book, when is it coming out?

Veer Ji,

I don't quite understand why you've posted this picture. Are you mocking Veer Ji, Jasjit's post? Or is there some other reason behind it?

Bhul Chuk Marf Karni,

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Quote
KhalsaRaaj
Veer Ji,

I don't quite understand why you've posted this picture. Are you mocking Veer Ji, Jasjit's post? Or is there some other reason behind it?

Bhul Chuk Marf Karni,

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

I don't quite understand how is it mockery. I'm just emphasizing the idea presented in Bhai Jasjit Singh ji's post through visualization. I know there have been quite a few fights/arguments previously which I myself started, but now I want to avoid such situations from re-occurring, as I would like to see the spiritual atmosphere of this forum remain steady. I apologize if the picture above seemed as if it is a mockery, however; this was not the intention.

Vaheguroo Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Ji Ki Fatheh

Both Bhai Gurdas Ji and Bhai Randhir Singh Ji mentioned how Guru Sahib traveled far and wide to
build a spiritual nation across national boundaries so I dont see how Guru Sahib could not have come
to America. Guru Sahib came to uproot tyranny and free the atmas of this world so yes he must have had
some doing in freeing the slaves in America.

The Subject of above post is very recent only few months old, never discussed before in Panth so it requires précised thought before presenting any comments to the public. The writer of above article based on his research presented a fact written in some books and in other foreign records. I think we should avoid taking this historical subject so lightly which is greatly concerned with Jagat Guru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee Maharaaj. As I mentioned in the beginning may be more research is needed to establish this fact.

With Regards,
Daas

JASJIT SINGH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Subject of above post is very recent only few
> months old, never discussed before in Panth so it
> requires précised thought before presenting any
> comments to the public. The writer of above
> article based on his research presented a fact
> written in some books and in other foreign
> records. I think we should avoid taking this
> historical subject so lightly which is greatly
> concerned with Jagat Guru Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee
> Maharaaj. As I mentioned in the beginning may be
> more research is needed to establish this fact.
>
> With Regards,
> Daas


Even though Guru Sahib traveled the world, the findings mentioned in the website you provided seem to
be fabricated ( made up). Somethings dont add up right. For example, how can the slaves call Guru Sahib "Jahaji Bhai"?
The slaves were from W.Africa so how could they know how to speak such a dialect?

So Bhai Jasjit Singh ji, speaking historically, is this why the civil war occurred, where one side was against slavery, whereas the other was for, and so; led to Carolina being split into two separate states, North Carolina and South Carolina?

Bhai Sukhdeep Singh Jio,

Quote

Even though Guru Sahib traveled the world, the findings mentioned in the website you provided seem to be fabricated ( made up). Somethings dont add up right. For example, how can the slaves call Guru Sahib "Jahaji Bhai"? The slaves were from W.Africa so how could they know how to speak such a dialect?

As Daas is not the author or co-author of the article to justify the findings however, I must say as most part of the east coast Africa is attached to Indian ocean and it is said that Indian traders started to go there in 15th, 16th century or earlier so having such information before us It is possible Africans may know some Indian dialect.

Bhai Jaspreet Singh Jio,

Quote

So Bhai Jasjit Singh ji, speaking historically, is this why the civil war occurred, where one side was against slavery, whereas the other was for, and so; led to Carolina being split into two separate states, North Carolina and South Carolina?

Civil war took place in 19th century so Daas can not say if there was any direct connection, however one thing is clear that the American civil war was in align with Sikhi thought to bring people out of oppression and injustices and that is what Guru Sahib also preached in 15th century.

With Regards,
Daas

Quote
Bhai JASJIT SINGH ji
Civil war took place in 19th century so Daas can not say if there was any direct connection, however one thing is clear that the American civil war was in align with Sikhi thought to bring people out of oppression and injustices and that is what Guru Sahib also preached in 15th century.

No what I meant was that, this revolution to end injustices and oppression must have started before, and continued till the very roots of slavery and other forms of oppression were finally demolished. I mean, without True Guidance (Shiri Guru Nanak Dev Ji), how was it possible for the Americans of that time to end oppression, because such a thing was in their agenda, nor did anyone dare speak against oppression at that time, as they were scared of endangering their own lives. Even then, since they were not Sikh, it took them quite a long time to end every means of inhumane treatments that were prominent at that time. Please correct if I am wrong here.


Vaheguroo Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Ji Ki Fatheh

Quote
No what I meant was that, this revolution to end injustices and oppression must have started before, and continued till the very roots of slavery and other forms of oppression were finally demolished. I mean, without True Guidance (Shiri Guru Nanak Dev Ji), how was it possible for the Americans of that time to end oppression, because such a thing was in their agenda, nor did anyone dare speak against oppression at that time, as they were scared of endangering their own lives. Even then, since they were not Sikh, it took them quite a long time to end every means of inhumane treatments that were prominent at that time. Please correct if I am wrong here.

Bhai Jaspreet Singh Jio,

Daas do not think that any American historian would agree with your thought but I would 100% because:

ਬਾਬਾ ਦੇਖੇ ਧਿਆਨ ਧਰਿ ਜਲਤੀ ਸਭਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਵੀ ਦਿਸਿ ਆਈ॥
ਬਾਝਹੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਬਾਰ ਹੈ ਹੈ ਹੈ ਕਰਦੀ ਸੁਣੀ ਲੁਕਾਈ॥
ਬਾਬੇ ਭੇਖ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਉਦਾਸੀ ਕੀ ਰੀਤਿ ਚਲਾਈ॥
ਚੜਿਆ ਸੋਧਣਿ ਧਰਤਿ ਲੁਕਾਈ ॥24॥

Bhai Sahib Gurdaas Jee use the word ਸਭਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਵੀ means whole world was burning in Kaam Krodh not just Indian sub continent and again Bhai Sahib mentioned ਚੜਿਆ ਸੋਧਣਿ ਧਰਤਿ ਲੁਕਾਈ means Guru Sahib went out to purify humanity on earth. That is why my take is why it is not possible that he could have traveled American continent? Why Guru Sahib would leave this continent from His Odyssey? Was this continent free from KAAM, KRODH, LOBH, MOH and HANKAAR?

With Regards,
Daas

Wonderful thoughts Bhai Jasjit Singh jio! The above Vaar that you have quoted, reminds Daas of another two Vaars of Bhai Sahib:

ਸੁਣੀ ਪੁਕਾਰਿ ਦਾਤਾਰ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਗ ਮਾਹਿ ਪਠਾਾਿਆ॥
ਚਰਨ ਧੋਇ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਚਰਣਾਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਿਖਾਂ ਪੀਲਾਇਆ॥
ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਇਕ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ॥
ਚਾਰੇ ਪੈਰ ਧਰਮ ਦੇ ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਇਕ ਵਰਨੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ॥
ਰਾਣਾ ਰੰਕ ਬਰਾਬਰੀ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਵਣਾ ਜਗਿ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ॥
ਉਲਟਾ ਖੇਲ ਪਿਰੰਮ ਦਾ ਪੈਰਾਂ ਉਫਰਿ ਸੀਸੁ ਨਿਵਾਇਆ॥
ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਬਾਬੇ ਤਾਰਿਆ ਸਤਿਨਾਮੁ ਪੜਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ॥
ਕਲਿ ਤਾਰਣਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਇਆ ॥੨੩॥


ਜਾਰਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮੁਲਤਾਨ ਦੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਪੁਰੇ ਨੋ ਆਇਆ॥
ਚੜ੍ਹੇ ਸਵਾਈ ਦਿਹਿ ਦਿਹੀ ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ॥
ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਮੰਗਣਾ ਸਿਰਿ ਦੁਖਾ ਦੇ ਦੁਖ ਸਬਾਇਆ॥
ਮਾਰਿਆ ਸਿਕਾ ਜਗਤ੍ਰਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਪੰਥ ਚਲਾਇਆ॥
ਥਾਪਿਆ ਲਹਿਣਾ ਝਵਿਦੇ ਗੁਰਿਆਈ ਸਿਰਿ ਛਤ੍ਰ ਫਿਰਾਇਆ॥
ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਕੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਰੂਪ ਵਟਾਇਆ॥
ਲਖਿ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਸਕਈ ਆਚਰਜੇ ਆਚਰਜ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ॥
ਕਾਇਆ ਪਲਟਿ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਣਾਇਆ ॥੪੫॥

Quote
JaspreetSingh
I don't quite understand how is it mockery. I'm just emphasizing the idea presented in Bhai Jasjit Singh ji's post through visualization. I know there have been quite a few fights/arguments previously which I myself started, but now I want to avoid such situations from re-occurring, as I would like to see the spiritual atmosphere of this forum remain steady. I apologize if the picture above seemed as if it is a mockery, however; this was not the intention.

Vaheguroo Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Ji Ki Fatheh

No need to apologize Veer Ji, was simply wondering why the picture was posted, thanks for clarifying. I completely agree with maintaining the spiritual atmosphere of the forum.

Bhul Chuk Marf Karni
Vaheguroo Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Ji Ki Fatheh

JASJIT SINGH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Why Guru Sahib would leave
> this continent from His Odyssey? Was this
> continent free from KAAM, KRODH, LOBH, MOH and
> HANKAAR?
>
> With Regards,
> Daas


True words Bhai Sahib. Sri Akal Baba Nanak definitely traveled across the world to save humanity
by giving them naam.


ਓਤ ਦੇਸ ਬਾਬੋ ਜਾਇ ਜਰੂਰ, ਹੋਹਿਂ ਭੁਲੇ ਬਹੁ ਮੂਰਖ ਕੂਰ।
Baba Nanak made it a priority to go to those
countries in which forgetfulness of God, and falsehood prevailed.
Sri Guru Panth Parkaash

and

ਜਹਿ ਜਹਿਂ ਬਾਬਾ ਦੇਸ਼ਹਿਂ ਜਾਇ, ਦੇਇ ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਸਚਿ ਨਾਮਹਿ ਲਾਇ।
In whatever country Baba Nanak went to he would give them the true Name ( naam).
Sri Guru Panth Parkaash[


It is self evident that Guru Sahib went across the world to
teach the true religion. Bhai Rattan Singh also mentions:


ਜਹਿ ਜਹਿਂ ਚਰਨ ਨਾਨਾਕ ਜੀ ਪਾਯੋ, ਧਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਉਨ ਲੋਕਣ ਦਿੜ੍ਹਾਯੋ॥ ੧੫॥
In whatever place Guru Nanak placed his holy feet he would
instill the compassionate religion in them.


In his article title " Nationality and Spirituality" Bhai Sahib mentions

ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਦੇਸ-ਦੇਸਾਂਤਰਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਰਟਨ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਫੇਰ ਨੌਂ ਜਾਮੇ ਧਾਰ, ਅਧਿਕਾਰੀ ਯੋਗ ਰੂਹਾ ਅੰਦਰ ਸਚੀ ਅਤੇ ਸਦਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੀ ਰੂਹਾਨੀਅਤ ਭਰੀ।
- Bhai Randhir Singh Ji

So It is apparent that Sri Akal Baba Nanak Dev Ji traveled far and wide, then manifested himself in 9 more avtaars and became the head/epitome of spirituality and found a place in every home ( heart/soul).

Bhai Randhir Singh Ji also mentions not only did Guru Sahib travel far and wide in this world he also traveled far and wide in the celestial worlds. In his book " Gurmat Leykh" Bhai Sahib mentions how Guru Sahib gave darshan to Bhagats in Karam Khand and it was after this Darshan that they recited Bani which was added to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Because without the true Guru no atma can reach Sach Khand where Dhur Ki Bani resides.

So from the beginning Guru Sahibs intention was to free the wandering atmas of this world and the next. Guru Gobind SIngh Ji gave this mission to the Khalsa panth. When sending Banda Singh Bahadur to Sarhind to destroy the enemies of the panth he also mentioned to Banda Singh Bahadur that those Rehatvan Panj Pyaarey who follow his Hukums have Gurgaddi. They are to be listened to, and there is no difference between me and them (ਹਮ ਮੈਂ ਉਨ ਮੈਂ ਭੇਦ ਕਿਛ ਨਾਹਿ, ਉਨ ਮੈਂ ਹਮ ਓਇ ਹਮਰੋ ਮਾਹਿ- panth parkaash)

Bhai Gurdas Ji also mentions how AKal Purakh is manifested in the 5.

ਇਕ ਸਿਖੁ ਦੁਇ ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗ ਪੰਜੀਂ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ॥
One is a Sikh, two the Congregation and in five resides God.


Unfortunately, we have not continued Guru Sahibs mission far and wide. Those rehavan GurSikhs
are not willing to go outside of their own little groups how in the world are they going to spread Gurmat
Naam throughout the world?

ਪੰਚੇ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਦਰਗਹਿ ਮਾਨੁ ॥ਪੰਚੇ ਸੋਹਹਿ ਦਰਿ ਰਾਜਾਨੁ ॥ਪੰਚਾ ਕਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥

and

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਦਿਵਾਨੁ ॥

May Guru Sahibs legacy continue through his grace.

ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਬਾਚ ॥- words of Sri Akal Purakh

ਮੈ ਅਪਨਾ ਸੁਤ ਤੋਹਿ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ॥ ਪੰਥ ਪ੍ਰਚੁਰ ਕਰਬੇ ਕਹੁ ਸਾਜਾ ॥ਜਾਹਿ ਤਹਾਂ ਤੈ ਧਰਮੁ ਚਲਾਇ ॥ ਕਬੁਧਿ ਕਰਨ ਤੇ ਲੋਕ ਹਟਾਇ ॥੨੯॥

Just as the people of the African descent were enslaved by the white Americans of that time, and had to face enormous discrimination, same way; the Native Indians of Canada also had to go through similar tragedies. Fortunately, this oppression ended. Just wondering, what are the odds of Siri Guroo Naanak Dev Jee going to Canada? ever wondered? any thoughts?

Whats the big deal of using the title Sri Akal Baba Nanak Dev Ji?
Do I need a history book to tell me what I can call my Guru.

Quote
Sukhdeep Singh
Do I need a history book to tell me what I can call my Guru.

Yes Sukhdeep Singh ji, you need a source to back up your claim, otherwise there will be no agreement on what to call Guru Sahib.

Putting this aside, let's move on with the discussion of the possibility of SHIRI GURU NAANAK DEV JI going to America to end slavery.

Bhai Jaspreet Singh Jio,

Waheguru Ji ka khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

Quote
Yes Sukhdeep Singh ji, you need a source to back up your claim, otherwise there will be no agreement on what to call Guru Sahib.

Daas do not think that there is anything wrong when Bhai Sukdeep Singh call Baba Akaal for Guru Nanak Dev jee however, I strongly disagree with him when he call Sri Dasam Granth as "Sri Dasam, Guru Granth" which is a new innovation to create great confusion. For Guru Nanak Dev Jee Bhai Sahib Gurdass jee also mentioned:

ਇਕ ਬਾਬਾ ਅਕਾਲ ਰੂਪੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਰਬਾਬੀ ਮਰਦਾਨਾ॥

Regardless as you mentioned we should focus on collecting more evidences for possibility of Guru Sahib's visit to America.

With regards,
Daas

I dont try to cause confusion when I use the title "Sri Dasam, Guru Granth". THis is the name I go by because GurCharnjit Singh Lamba mentions this is a more appropriate title since Sri Dasam Granth means the 10th granth.

In regards to Guru Sahib coming to America its highly unlikely he came and gave darshan on a ship. Guru Nanak Dev Jis travels are best known through the writings of Bhai Gurdas Ji. Reading about the numerous udasis in BHai Sahibs Varaan
one notices there is a common trend amongst the recorded Udasis pehli paatshah went to. Guru Sahib went to those places where their was a large population in which they were practicing "false religion".

Many of the popular religious centers of the Eastern Hemisphere are recorded in Bhai Gurdas Jis Vaars. For example, he went to Mecca where people were worshiping a house of idols ( Kaba), Guru Sahib also went to the mountains to do veechar with those who were claiming they were the religious elite/leaders of the world. So if Guru Sahib gave darshan in America it would most likely be somewhere in Massachusetts as this is were most religious congregations were settled. There would be no need to do it on a ship. As Guru Sahib attacked the heart of the problem which was people falsely practicing religion.

Sukhdeep Singh Ji, I agree with you that Guru Sahib visiting America is unlikely but it is not impossible. Bhai Gurdas Ji has made no mention of visiting other khands. But if I assume otherwise then what kind of false religion were residents of Karam Khand practicing that Guru Sahib went there to “attack heart of the problem”? Many historical sources mention that Guru Sahib invited bhagats from Sachkhand to recite Gurbani but since no one can go to Sachkhand without Satguru, Bhai Sahib changed their resident place to Karam Khand. As a whole, visiting Karam Khand or inviting bhagats from any khand to recite Gurbani is simply a fabricated story. Guru Rakha

Quote

So if Guru Sahib gave darshan in America it would most likely be somewhere in Massachusetts as this is were most religious congregations were settled.

WOOOHOOOOO !!!!!

Now someone please discover somewhere near my apartment where Gurujee's charan touched the earth!!!!!!

I am serious!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bijla Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sukhdeep Singh Ji, I agree with you that Guru
> Sahib visiting America is unlikely but it is not
> impossible. Bhai Gurdas Ji has made no mention of
> visiting other khands. But if I assume otherwise
> then what kind of false religion were residents of
> Karam Khand practicing that Guru Sahib went there
> to “attack heart of the problem”? Many
> historical sources mention that Guru Sahib invited
> bhagats from Sachkhand to recite Gurbani but since
> no one can go to Sachkhand without Satguru, Bhai
> Sahib changed their resident place to Karam Khand.
> As a whole, visiting Karam Khand or inviting
> bhagats from any khand to recite Gurbani is simply
> a fabricated story. Guru Rakha


Sorry for not being clear. What I meant to say is Guru Sahib not only traveled in this
world he also traveled in other worlds. When in this world he travelled to places
that were full of fraudulence.
Bhai Gurdas Ji does mention GuruSahib going to celestial worlds
[www.sikhitothemax.com]

In regards to Karam Khand. I was meaning to say before Avtaar of Satguru
Nanak Dev Ji no atma could enter Sach Khand. Nobodys bani could be
considered bani without the True Guru. The Bhagats bani which are included
in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are sachi Bani because they came from the Guru.
The writing the Bhagats wrote in this world before having darshan of Guru Sahib
were not sachi bani they were Kachee bani because without the GUru bani is Kachi.
Keep in mind Bhagats like Sheikh Fareed , Bhagat Ravidas, Bhagat Danna Ji came before
Pehli Paatshah. It was not untill Guru Sahib met them they had the ability to recite
Sachi Bani.All the Bhagats whos banis that are included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were
Gurmukhs ( followers of GUru Nanak Dev Ji). REfer to Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhri Singh Jis
book Gurmat Leykh ( Bhagat Bani Kivey Ucharan Hoee).

Once again before we jump into conclusion I want to clear things up, because I dont want to get into a long debate again.
1. Pehli Paatshahs travels on this world ( earth) were intended to stop the people
from committing false practices in the Name of God.
2. GUru Sahibs travels in the other worlds were meant to free atmas and take them to Sach Khand.
Aarti Shabad which we recite everyday includes Bhagat Ravidas Jis bani which is in the beginning ( 2nd verse) of Aarti Shabad. This shabad was recited everyday during Pehli Paatshahs time ( refer to Bhai Gurdas Jis Vaaran). Hence Guru Sahib gave darshan to Bhagat Ravida in Karam Khand. ITs not possible that Bhagat Ravidas to enter Sach Khand without true Guru, nor could his recitings be bani untill he was blessed from SatGuruuuu.

Mehtab Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So if Guru Sahib gave darshan in America it would
> most likely be somewhere in Massachusetts as this
> is were most religious congregations were
> settled.
>
> WOOOHOOOOO !!!!!
>
> Now someone please discover somewhere near my
> apartment where Gurujee's charan touched the
> earth!!!!!!
>
> I am serious!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>


Through your charan Gurus holy footprints are all over your apartment

Quote

The writing the Bhagats wrote in this world before having darshan of Guru Sahib
were not sachi bani they were Kachee bani because without the GUru bani is Kachi.
Keep in mind Bhagats like Sheikh Fareed , Bhagat Ravidas, Bhagat Danna Ji came before
Pehli Paatshah. It was not untill Guru Sahib met them they had the ability to recite
Sachi Bani.All the Bhagats whos banis that are included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were
Gurmukhs ( followers of GUru Nanak Dev Ji). REfer to Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhri Singh Jis
book Gurmat Leykh ( Bhagat Bani Kivey Ucharan Hoee).

I partially agree with you on this. Satguru blessed bhagats, gursikhs etc to recite bani and hence their compositions were direct revelation. However, bhagats whose compositions were included in Aad Guru Granth Sahib were physically given Naam by Guru Sahib. Sheikh Fareed Saani aka Sheikh Ibrahim or Sheikh Brahm met Guru Sahib at Pak Patan and many other bhagats met at Ayodheya. First Bhagat Ramanand received Naam and composed the only Shabad included in Gurbani. Then Bhagat Kabir and others followed suit. Some bhagats lived during 3rd Guru’s time. It was a general belief of the Sikhs that bhagats were called by Guru Arjan Dev Ji from Sachkhand to recite bani. It is stated in many of our historic texts. Bhai Randhir Singh believed that since no one could go to Sachkhand without Satguru, bhagats had to be in Karam Khand. This fabricated story fails to explain why only few bhagats from this planet and not of different worlds were selected and why Kahna, Peelu, Hussain etc were not blessed to recite Gurbani? Why weren’t bhagats in Gian and Saram Khand blessed with Naam? This story was invented only because of lack of explanation and research about bhagats and inclusion of their bani. Residents of Karam Khand are already imbued in praising God and they neither die nor get deceived by anyone.

You mentioned the Aarti Shabad. Both Bhagat Ravidas Ji and Kabir Ji were influenced by the bani of Guru Sahib which is why there are many similarities. Guru Sahib composed this shabad along with Sodar in the hazoori of Waheguru. Those who believe otherwise (like Prof. Sahib Singh) have conjectured that Guru Sahib was influenced by bhagat bani. Similarities can only mean one thing. One was influenced by the other. Since bhagats were influenced, it means they physically met Guru Sahib and became acquainted with his bani. Point being: Bhagats were certainly blessed (like you said) but in Dharam Khand not in Karam Khand. Read Bhagat Bani Itihaas by Giani Gurdit Singh for more information.

Pauri you referenced does not state that Guru Sahib went to other world to preach but to show the son of the Pir that there was no end to the creation and as a proof they brought back Karah Parshaad. Hence, Guru Sahib went to sangat i.e. Gurmat was being practiced there already. Bhai Gurdas Ji is clear on the point that Guru Sahib was sent to Earth for parchaar because people on this planet were engrossed in maya. He set forth to “Sodhan Dharat Lokayee” not other khands. Further, only by practicing Dharma in Dharam Khand can one obtain salvation. It is not available to inhabitants of other khands. They must come back to this world, take human form, obtain Naam and then get salvation. Gurbani is clear that only through human form is salvation possible. If you disagree then kindly explain how residents of other khands can obtain Naam now? There was one couple during Bhai Randhir Singh’s time. Every time they sent their child to take Amrit, he/she died right after taking it. It happened couple of times until they were told by the Singhs that Guru Sahib was sending souls with immense naam kamayee from other khands just so they could get Naam from the Satguru and get salvation.

Guru Amar Das Ji took missionary tours, Guru Hargobind Ji organized the Udasi order for parchaar, sent Sikhs as far as Decca and Himself took missionary tours in different parts of the country, Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji went as far as Assam for parchaar and Guru Gobind Singh Ji organized the Nirmala order for parchaar at Hindu centers. Yet not a single Guru either went to other khand nor did they ever send anyone to other khands. Why? Why doesn’t Bhai Gurdas Ji mention any Sikh from the other world or khand? Mission of Guru Sahib was to establish a Panth of God and consolidate it on Earth, which they did. Visiting other khands was not part of the mission. My point being, I agree with you on your conclusion but you are basing it on arguments that are not rational and were used by Sikhs back when there was no research done and not enough information was available. Guru Rakha

Everyone knows the integrity that Bhai Sahib had he would not fabricate a story to save face. If he did
not know something he would openly say it instead of make something up.

You mention Bhagats physically met Guru Sahib in this world. How in the world can Bhagat NamDev Ji
physically meet Pehli Paatshah who was born hundreds of years after Bhagat NaamDev Ji?

You ask why wasnt banis from Hussein included. Hussein was not a Bhagat. He did not do Bhao Bhagti.
He did not do worship of Kirtan Naam. He worshipped himself and referred to himself as God. He was not
a worthy candidate . Why would Guru Sahib select someone whom subscribed to vedantic theology?

Karam Khand and Sach Khand are beyond space and time. Death does not occur in these places. Karma Khand is
extremely close to Sach Khand but is not Sach Khand. Those Bhagats who did not reach Karam Khand were not suitable
candidates to go to sach Khand and receive Naam and recite Bani. When Guru Sahib gave darshan to Bhagats in Karam Khand it was not physical darshan. Again Karam Khand is beyond space and time. The physical body ( 5 elements ) cannot
exist in this place. GUru Sahibs supreme Jot gave darshan. THis is not "cheap darshan" and given to anyone without
any Kamaee.

Pauri I stated does refer to Khands. Guru Sahib took Jeevan and Pir Dastigir to Sach Khand where they got degh. Where else can you get degh from?

Guru Sahib could have brought billions to the fold of Sikhi within the blink of an eye. Yet this was not intention. Also, Guru Sahib spoke all languages and could perform any miracle to "win" converts yet this was not his intention. Guru Sahibs intention was to connect the worthy candidates into Naam and attach them to Guru Shabad not GUru Sahibs physical saroop. For this reason when he went on his Udasis he did not just recite his bani to the common people as this would lead people too worship his deyh ( not his jot). So instead he recited his banis and Bhagat Banis which the people could understand. If he just recited his banis then too the common people then the people would be attached to his body not the Shabad.

Bhai Gurdas Ji mentions on Guru Sahibs journeys he carried a book with him


pushhan fol kithaab no hi(n)dhoo vaddaa k musalamaanoee||
They asked Baba Nanak to open and search in his book whether Hindu is great or the Muslim.

This book was not just carried to the middle east. It was carried in all the travels and included banis
from the Bhagats of Sach Khand. For example, when Guru Sahib was at Jaganath Puri he recited full aarti ( included Bhagat Jis bani) not just Dhanasari pauri. Wherever he would go he would teach the common people Gurbani and make the following nitnem banis mandatory: Sri Japji Sahib, Sodar Rehras Sahib, Aarti, and Kirtan Sohila. Refer to Bhai Gurdas Jis Vaaran.

sodhar aarathee gaaveeai a(n)mrith vaelae jaap ouchaaraa||
Sodar and Arati were sung and in the ambrosial hours Japu was recited.


Guru Gobind Singh Ji added his banis in aarti later as he did
with Rehras since it was customary for Singhs to sing and recite
Banis from both granths.

Most likely whenever Guru Sahib would travel to the South he would use banis like Bhagat naam dev Ji in whose dialect the people could easily understand. When traveling in far West Punjab he would use Sheikh Farid Jis Bani. Yes he would recite his own bani, but he would also recite Banis of the Bhagats to make sure people get attached to Gurbani not him ( his body)

Also you have stated Gurmukhs like Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji were incorrect due to lack
of research resources at the time. All the claims you have made you have given references
to texts that were available during Bhai Sahibs time. So please tell me what new research has
been found to suggest your theory is true?