Vaheguru punishing?

I didn't want to interrupt the beautiful thread on bachans by Gurmukhs, so I am starting this separate one.

Bhai Kulbir Singh jee stated a bachan by Bhai Jagtar Singh jee about Vaheguru "punishing and taking away gunns". Please help this moorakh to understand this. Based on my limited knowledge of Gurbani, I have always believed that Vaheguru is bakshanhaar (sadh bakshind sada mehervaana), that He loves us inspite of all our avgunns (augun ko na chitaarda), that He never punishes (satgur sabhna da bhala manaenda tis da bura kyo hoye), so please shed some light.

Thanks

Mehtab Singh

Quote

Based on my limited knowledge of Gurbani, I have always believed that Vaheguru is bakshanhaar (sadh bakshind sada mehervaana), that He loves us inspite of all our avgunns (augun ko na chitaarda), that He never punishes (satgur sabhna da bhala manaenda tis da bura kyo hoye), so please shed some light.

There is no Pankiti in Gurbani that says that Vaheguru never punishes for our wrongdoings. He is surely Bakshanhaar but he is also true Munsif (Judge) i.e. he holds us accountable for our deeds and punishes us through Dharam Rai, Jammdoots and other means. The very fact that he has created Dharam Rai and his Doots (Jamdoots) proves that rewards and punishments for our deeds are a fact.

He is Bakshanhaar but only for those people who repent their sins. If we continue to sin, we should not expect his Bakshanhaar nature to come in action. He is a great Bakshanhaar but we have to account for our bad deeds. Having said that, the moment we repent, he pardons us right away.

Another quality of Vaheguru jee is that he keeps on giving (what he has to give) and fulfilling our needs, despite our bad qualities and sins. This is why he is Merciful but still his giving nature does not mean that he does not give us punishment for our sins. It only stops, when as per his own Bhaana, he enables us to meet Guru Sahib and start Bhagti.

ਨਿਹਫਲੁ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਜੀਵਿਆ ਜਿ ਖਸਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਆਪਣਾ ਅਵਰੀ ਕਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਏਵ ਨ ਜਾਪਈ ਕਰਤਾ ਕੇਤੀ ਦੇਇ ਸਜਾਇ ॥1॥
(Their life is fruitless who don't recognize their Master (Vaheguru jee) and let their heart get stuck in Maya. Guru Sahib says that no one can estimate, how much punishment Karta (Vaheguru) gives to such aforementioned individuals.)

This is a complicated topic and the above is only a short summary. If Guru Sahib wills, at a later date, a full fledged article will be written on this subject.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Quote
Kulbir Singh
Bhai Jagtar Singh jee once said something along the lines that before punishing, Vaheguru takes away the gunns from the individual. So if you see yourself becoming weak in Rehit, Amritvela and Nitnem, become alert. Weakness in these areas is a sign of bad times coming.

This is a good topic. I look forward to the full post on this Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee.

The bachan of Bhai Sahib Jagtar Singh Jee makes me feel quite scared.

Before punishing, Vaheguru takes away the gunns from the individual. So if you see yourself becoming weak in Rehit, Amritvela and Nitnem, become alert. Weakness in these areas is a sign of bad times coming.

Veer Mehtab Singh Ji, what I find interesting in these words is that it relates our future with our present status. If we are weak or poor in certain good qualities at present; we are going to get its effect after sometime. As we sow so shall we reap. So, these words tell us that our problems (punishments??) are nothing but the result of our laxity of losing good qualities.

Parmeshar Te Bhulian Viapan Sabe Rog.

The above words of Bhai Jagtar Singh Ji, almost translate the following Gurbani Pankiti. "Jis noo aap Khuae Karta Khuss lai Changiai". Use of punishment word in above quote should not be taken very literally.

dhannvaad Gurmukh piyaareo

mehtab singh i was also wondering about the same thing.....

i hope kulbir singh can put up his article soon to clear up any misunderstandings....

WOW that quote by Bhai Jagtar Singh is mind blowing. I too feel very scared now.

That's a very deep veechar by Bhai Sahib Jagtar Singh ji. After reading about him here : [www.gurmatbibek.com]
it seems he must have been a really Chardikala Singh. Blessed are those that received his Sangat.