Premature death?

Is it possible to ever die prematurely, like before your time is written or is this a misconception?

What happens to people who commit suicide? Is that also 'written' in the fate or no?

What are your views on this matter...?

Nothing is outside of akal purkh's razaa. I remember a veechar that we had with gursikhs at a camp once where we discussed the concept of bhana and hukam. It was discussed that there are 3 types of bhana. Akal purkhs bhana, guru sahibs bhana, and the individuals bhana. Guru sahibs bhana is rehit, bani, ie. gurmat. And the individuals bhana is anything that goes outside of rehit and is known as manmat. The amazing thing is that EVERYTHING is under akal purkhs bhana.

There is a shabad that we had discussed and I will post it as soon as I find it.

ਸੋਰਠਿਮਹਲਾ੩॥
ਸੋਸਿਖੁਸਖਾਬੰਧਪੁਹੈਭਾਈਜਿਗੁਰਕੇਭਾਣੇਵਿਚਿਆਵੈ॥
ਆਪਣੈਭਾਣੈਜੋਚਲੈਭਾਈਵਿਛੁੜਿਚੋਟਾਖਾਵੈ॥
ਬਿਨੁਸਤਿਗੁਰਸੁਖੁਕਦੇਨਪਾਵੈਭਾਈਫਿਰਿਫਿਰਿਪਛੋਤਾਵੈ॥੧॥
ਹਰਿਕੇਦਾਸਸੁਹੇਲੇਭਾਈ॥
ਜਨਮਜਨਮਕੇਕਿਲਬਿਖਦੁਖਕਾਟੇਆਪੇਮੇਲਿਮਿਲਾਈ॥ਰਹਾਉ॥
ਇਹੁਕੁਟੰਬੁਸਭੁਜੀਅਕੇਬੰਧਨਭਾਈਭਰਮਿਭੁਲਾਸੈਂਸਾਰਾ॥
ਬਿਨੁਗੁਰਬੰਧਨਟੂਟਹਿਨਾਹੀਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਮੋਖਦੁਆਰਾ॥
ਕਰਮਕਰਹਿਗੁਰਸਬਦੁਨਪਛਾਣਹਿਮਰਿਜਨਮਹਿਵਾਰੋਵਾਰਾ॥੨॥
ਹਉਮੇਰਾਜਗੁਪਲਚਿਰਹਿਆਭਾਈਕੋਇਨਕਿਸਹੀਕੇਰਾ॥
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਮਹਲੁਪਾਇਨਿਗੁਣਗਾਵਨਿਨਿਜਘਰਿਹੋਇਬਸੇਰਾ॥
ਐਥੈਬੂਝੈਸੁਆਪੁਪਛਾਣੈਹਰਿਪ੍ਰਭੁਹੈਤਿਸੁਕੇਰਾ॥੩॥
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂਸਦਾਦਇਆਲੁਹੈਭਾਈਵਿਣੁਭਾਗਾਕਿਆਪਾਈਐ॥
ਏਕਨਦਰਿਕਰਿਵੇਖੈਸਭਊਪਰਿਜੇਹਾਭਾਉਤੇਹਾਫਲੁਪਾਈਐ॥
ਨਾਨਕਨਾਮੁਵਸੈਮਨਅੰਤਰਿਵਿਚਹੁਆਪੁਗਵਾਈਐ॥੪॥੬॥

"premature" death is a worldly idea. all of us will live just how long we're supposed to live, no longer, no less. it's all up to waheguru.

So, what one chooses to call "premature" is certainly the will of Akal Purakh. In the same way, all errors and ommissions of human life are also as per His will. But one cannot justify erring with this logic.

what is a person's own bhana?

ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਤੁਧੁ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
You have created all beings and creatures.

ਜਿਤੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਤਿਤੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਲਾਏ ॥
As it pleases You, You assign tasks to one and all.

ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਕੀਤਾ ਤੇਰਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਛੁ ਅਸਾੜਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥
All things are Your Doing; we can do nothing ourselves. ||3||

In one of the kathas by Giani Avtar Singh Ji, named "Sikhi di Rehit", he mentioned about the pre-mature death of a youth in a family, which requested for Sri Akhand Paath Sahib be done at their home.

The reason for the Akhand Paath was that a young man (youth) in the family had recently died. After his death, the soul of the young man was wandering and eventually the soul possessed his brother. After entering into his brother's body, the soul spoke and requested that the family should do a Sri Akhad Paath Sahib for him.

Giani Ji in his katha says he got an opportunity to "talk" to that soul when it again entered his brother's body. Amongst other things, the soul said "I wasn't supposed to die yet, I still had some years left in my life. What happened was, I became unconscious after being electrocuted. Then my family members put milk into my mouth (thinking it might help). I had no idea what was going on. Due to my family pouring milk into my body, I died, because after a person is electrocuted, water/liquid should not be given to that person...."

It then talks about a lot of things, but for this discussion, it is the statement in bold that's relevant! Does this show that "pre-mature" death is possible?
This katha can be found on gurmatveechar.com, and dass has personally listened to it. There is a mention of this incident in one of the old posts here as well.

Moreover, most of us have heard that in a lot of instances, people dying violently/through accident, especially those those whose time is not "up" yet, wander in 'prait' joon. This could just be hearsay, for all we know!!! But a food for thought, for sure!

Dass,
-JP

so did the ghost mean he personally felt he wasn't supposed to die yet? or is he saying his family somehow slipped one past god? i have a hard time believing that waheguru isn't in complete control of everything. if someone dies, they're meant to die. we can't understand why god does what he does, but in the end, it's only he that does everything. if someone gets the joon of a ghost, that's a direct result of their karma. dying in an accident shouldn't change that.

(i'd also take anything a ghost says with a grain of salt...)

Bhein Ji, gives a lesson in English, occasionally. I have to go for Dictionary.

Take something with a grain of salt:

To consider something to be not completely true or right "I've read the article, which I take with a grain of salt."
Related vocabulary: hard to swallow
Etymology: based on the idea that food tastes better and is easier to swallow if you add a little salt.

My nanniji used to tell me a story about when she was younger. She basically passed out due to being ill, however she was still alive, her family members thought she had died and did a number of things to revive her.

Eventually they gave up and started preparing a funeral pyre for her body. Just before they set the wood on fire she woke up.

The interesting part is what she recalls whilst she was 'dead'. She stated that jamdhoots had taken her soul to hell, here she saw many different punishments and was told why different punishments were given to different souls. The jamdhoots then realised that they had taken the wrong Chanan Kaur and told her that her karams were really good and that her time wasnt up yet, the Jamdhoots showed her a way back to her body at which point she woke up, just in time!

So from this im thinking Jamdhoots can take the wrong souls at the wrong time?!?!

hahah omg that is an amazing story. i remember when i was 16 and went to india with my mum, we stayed in pind at my mum's nanni jis place...she was very sick, very thin, couldn't see, but all the time she would be doing waheguru jaap, once we were sleeping at night and she was in the next room, doing naam simran, in the morning she said that last night really tall and big black people came into my room but then went away. that means they went away because of her doing simran...she has passed away now.

Quote

The jamdhoots then realised that they had taken the wrong Chanan Kaur and told her that her karams were really good and that her time wasnt up yet, the Jamdhoots showed her a way back to her body at which point she woke up, just in time!

so she didn't die prematurely after all?

i think jams must not be very smart. too bad, their job seems kind of important.

jamdoots would have been in big trouble if the family had done the funeral...... yikes!

Quote

i think jams must not be very smart. too bad, their job seems kind of important.

I too sometimes think about the nature of their job. They must be many and doing hard job. It cannot be 24 hr job, may be they change shifts also. And after all, who is selected for that job. They use different languages for different persons. Are they happy with their job or undergoing some punishment ?

Such stories of wrong person, taken by JAMDOOT uncles (my daughters says so) were also part of my childhood. May be such mistakes are less frequent now.

I have heard similar stories to those narrated above, i.e. people passing away but then waking up on the pyre recalling all the incidents of the time spent in between, about jamdoots, their punishment etc. But then if most people have recalled a similar story, doesn't it all just seem like told-say story which just gets passed on from people to more people and from just a story seems like a truth?
it's all a big muddle! Vaheguroo Bless us all

maybe when the jamdoot takes the "wrong person" it's not wrong, but instead is a kind of caution to them. live a gursikh life or this bad thing could happen to you. maybe those people are blessed to get this kind of realization.

bhai rama singh jee talks about being a visitor, seeing the tortures of hell after he had his heart attack. he took it as a warning and began doing huge amounts of seva (even more than before).

Grandma of my Singhni also had similar experience. She was in coma like situation. And after the heavenly trip, she started saying that she wanted to have DASTAAR WALA AMRIT. Amrit Sanchaar was arranged at the house. And she left after few days of AMRIT.

Waheguru!

Sant baba Waryam Singh Ji also mentions about few such incidents in his book - "How To Know Thy Real Self". They are varied and happened with different set of people. Hence Bhein Ji "Khanda Kaur" Jeo, all these can't be "told-say stories". Rest of course, Waheguru Ji knows!

Please Bhai Sahib MB Singh Jeo, and "Aalsa Moorakh" Jeo, can you please elaborate on the experiences of the respective people u know who had such experiences, especially about "DASTAAR WALA AMRIT" part please!
Many THANKS IN ADVANCE!


MB Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grandma of my Singhni also had similar experience.
> She was in coma like situation. And after the
> heavenly trip, she started saying that she wanted
> to have DASTAAR WALA AMRIT. Amrit Sanchaar was
> arranged at the house. And she left after few days
> of AMRIT.

Vaheguru, I personally do believe these types of stories and experiences shared above, although many people do dismiss them.

Veer JP Singh Ji, I have a brief information regarding that at present. She was Mata Nihal Kaur Ji of village Issewal (Ludhiana). She was able to do path from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji when she was young. (She happened to have Darshan of Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh Ji). She used to have good Gursikh Rehat. Amritwela Ishnaan, Nitnem and Gurbani Path till sunrise and Assa Dee Vaar while cooking morning meals for the family. She got Amrit before marriage. But her husband was not as firm in Gursikh rehat. So she need to have AMRIT CHHAK again. But she could not do so. When told about having Amrit again and have Keski rehat; she used to say that she was "shy of" having Dastaar on the head. However her devotion for Gurbani was intact.

And the life moved on.

In 1981, when she was aged and weak; she suffered from brain hemorrhage. And went in coma (?). It was about one month like that. She could not speak or respond. And one day, she moved her head after listening to Japuji. And this happened again after Jaap Sahib. She moved her head in respect after each Path. And after Anand Sahib, when asked, " Did you listen the Nitnem, Bebe Ji?" She spoke to say, "That was very beneficial for me". And these were the words, she spoke after about one month of coma. That was delightful for the family. In the coming days, she tried to speak, but her words were still difficult to grasp. The family members were able to understand, at times.

And one day, she said, " Let me have AMRIT". (MENU AMRIT CHHAKKA DEO)
"But you will have to tie Dastaar and will have a Kirpaan", she was told.
She said, " Dear Sangat, I will do whatever you like me to do. But I have to have AMRIT" (SADH SANGAT JI, JO KUCHH TUSI KAHO GE MAIN OHI KARANAGI. MAIN AMRIT JAROOR CHHAKNA HAI)

Jathedar Ram Singh Ji (Squadron Leader) was approached. He said, " Most probably, she is still alive, to have AMRIT only. We should not delay."

After few days there was AMRIT SANCHHAAR in the house. Bebe Nihaal Kaur Ji and her husband (Baapu Ji) both had the Amrit. And She had DASTAAR on the head.

Her face was very glowing after AMRIT. She talked only about GURU and GURMAT after that. She was very happy, when an AMRITDHARI SINGH came to the house. She forgot her worldly relations in that period. When her son used to come beside her, she approached her hands to touch his knees. "Oh dear brother, you had done mercy to me." ( VEER JI, MERE TE BOHUT KARAM KEETA HAI TUSI). She used to call his son as VEER JI, after AMRIT.

And one day she started weeping. That was more often now. She was weeping most of the times. One day she said while weeping," Where had he (they?) gone after giving a single sweet glimpse to me?" (IK VAAR DARSHAN DE KE KITHE CHALE GAI ?). She did not like to have food and was always having the pain of separation. The family wanted to divert her from that feeling. She said, "That is not in my control". That condition was for about three-four days. And after about four days; there was some miracle within her. She stopped weeping.

Few days after that, November 5, 1981; she left for her ultimate world.

Slanderer of Guru Sahib get their life shortened:

ਸੰਤਕੈਦੂਖਨਿਆਰਜਾਘਟੈ ॥

Chota veer

Waheguru!

Wow...what a wonderful & inspirational incident!
Thank you Bhai Sahib MB Singh jeo, for sharing it with us!
Did she, by any chance, also mentioned anything about anything she might have experienced during her "coma"?

Once again, thank you for the inspirational post!

Beautiful Iinspirational Saakhi MB Singh jeeo.

Kulbir Singh