LareevarSaroop query

Found an old lareevar saroop at the local gurughar.Parkash of SatGuroo is never done.
Can Bh. Kulbir Singh or any other gursikh confirm if it is a lareevar saroop. All the alphabets are together but there don't seem to be an unbroken line for many of gurbani lines.
(have a look at the pictures & the last one especially)






Chota veer

It does seem to be Laridaar Saroop but some alphabets are not joined by an unbroken line on top. Only if you look at it carefully, you realize that some alphabets are separated because the line on top is slightly broken but there is no extra space between alphabets. This seems to be a printing error.

Kulbir Singh

Hanji, thanks for identifying my concern accurately!
The printing for the whole saroop is in such way. From the limited info Chatrik has, it seem to have been printed 80-100 years ago.So maybe be it is due to the technology used in that time.
But having gone through the whole saroop. No where, any words have been separated on purpose. All the mangals also appear in the exact same pattern.

So will be called a lareevaar saroop or a pad ched?
This is the only saroop dass has encountered where he lives.

Chota veer

Piyasi Chatrik jio, the Saroop in question does appear to be in Larivaar. Considering the age of the Saroop, it would be safe to say the reasoning for the letters to appear separate would be due to the print.

I came across this picture of a printed Larivaar Saroop dated 1935 and found that the letters appear separate but slightly less to the pictures you have posted. I also have had darshan of a few other printed Saroop's of the same age in India and they too hold the same print.

It should not be called printing error. That was the technique available at that time. There is no intention to give extra space between words.

Hi this may seem like a rather off-topic query, but why is there no 'ਮਹਲਾ' written after 'ਸੋਰਠਿ', unlike rest of the shabads where there is 'ਮਹਲਾ'

So i guess Bhai MB Singh Ji's remarks about "no printing error" is false. Maybe this is a printing error. Or is there not supposed to be 'ਮਹਲਾ' written after ਸੋਰਠਿ' for this particular ਸ਼ਬਦ?

Thank you ਜੀੳ!

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖ਼ਾਲਸਾ॥ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫ਼ਤਿਹ॥





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Bhai Jaspreet Singh

there are many times in Bani where Mahala or Mahal dont come and its just the raag and the guru jee that wrote it

other examples are pauree 9 or pauree 5

where the word pauree comes and the guru jee that wrote it

maharaj jee's marjee whatever they want to do

oddslot

gsingh jio,

Waheguru ji Ka khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

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there are many times in Bani where Mahala or Mahal dont come and its just the raag and the guru jee that wrote it other examples are pauree 9 or pauree 5 where the word pauree comes and the guru jee that wrote it maharaj jee's marjee whatever they want to do

Looks like it is more of the marjee of a printer/publisher than Guru Sahib. Since, it seems you know very much about Guru Sahib's marjee, so would you please clarify what should be correct word in above indicated place?

With Regards,
Daas

from a sainchee das has that has been published by the damdami taksal it says ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਃ 5 ॥

and in the above picture it seems as if the ਮਃ is missing

oddslot

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from a sainchee das has that has been published by the damdami taksal it says ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਃ 5 ॥

and in the above picture it seems as if the ਮਃ is missing

BHai gsingh ji?

would you please explain further why in some places in Gurbaani 'Mahalaa' is written as 'ਮਹਲਾ', while in other places it is written as 'ਮਃ'?r
hmmmm so is this also the 'marjee' of SatGur Mahaaraaj?


waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

singh jeeo it seems as if you are both mocking me

all i can say is

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ ॥

O GurSikhs, know that the Bani, the Word of the True Guru, is true, absolutely true. The Creator Lord Himself causes the Guru to chant it.

and

ਪੂਰੇ ਕਾ ਕੀਆ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਘਟਿ ਵਧਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਾਹੀ ॥
All that the Perfect Lord does is perfect; there is not too little, or too much.

oddslot

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singh jeeo it seems as if you are both mocking me

how did we mock u? i just asked a general question about Gurbaani, the way its laid out, written, the format, and why is there no "Mahaalaa" after "Sorath"! sorry for the misunderstanding ji!


And as for the Gurbaani Panktis you have quoted. I would just like to say one thing:

Just because a publisher has published a Saroop a certain way, without caring about the proof reading or checking whether the way its been published is right according to older sources ie Puraatan Saroops, then we cant just simply accept it.
We cant go on and say, oh koi gul ni
whats tomorrow? a whole shabad missing from an Ang Sahib, and we just accept it and say: ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਤਿ ਸਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਆਪਿ ਮੁਹਹੁ ਕਢਾਏ ॥ ?
or ਪੂਰੇ ਕਾ ਕੀਆ ਸਭ ਕਿਛੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਘਟਿ ਵਧਿ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਾਹੀ ॥






Singha! These things have to be taken into consideration! The minute i saw the other 2 shabads on that Ang having "Mahaalaa" written after "Sorath" and that other Shabad didnt have it, i knew something wasnt right! I dont know thats how i looked at it.
We as Sikhs need to think deeper, further,rather then just accepting the way things are. For example, as i have READ quite sometimes and even heard that the Saroops published by Damdami Taksaal and the ones published by S.G.P.C. are in some ways different because they both do pad-ched differently. And of course i guess other publishers have their own variations as well. I know wat ure saying, but we need to think deeper. Thats wat i think. Stay in Chardikala!

WaHeGuRuJiKaKhAlSaWaHeGuRuJiKiFaTeH!

i understand what you are saying

but there are some people that do tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
much shanka on bani oh this is liek that and this is like that in this saroop that and that saroop this and blah blah

and the tone you were using to me felt like you were mocking me sorry for the misunderstanding,

the reason the taksal does different padd chedd than the sgpc is becasue of the difference of opinion

sgpc uses the bhai sahib singhs grammar while the taksal uses whats been passed down. while i was doing santhiya we would compare the differences most of the times the meanings do not change for example in another topic the difference of otaras kai and otar so kai has come up the meanings are almost the same that dirt is removed

another difference is
according to sgpc
ਅੰਧਾ ਕਚਾ ਕਚੁ ਨਿਕਚੁ ॥1॥

and according to the taksal

ਅੰਧਾ ਕਚਾ ਕਚੁਨਿ ਕਚੁ ॥1॥

there are many other examples that come throughout gurbani, but it is just how the people are reading it interpret it, as long as they are not changing gurbani pangita and making twisted meanings to support there agenda we shouldnt really fight over it because at the end we're all gursikhs(or atleast trying) and we should do as much bhagti and abhiaas as we can

oddslot

Thanks gsingh jio for going back and check the spellings with the Senchi you have otherwise your original post sounded like you were justifying the publisher's mistake by saying that it was Gruru Sahib's marjee

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there are many times in Bani where Mahala or Mahal dont come and its just the raag and the guru jee that wrote it

.
The purpose of daas's question was solved.

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from a sainchee das has that has been published by the damdami taksal it says ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਃ 5 ॥

Hence Daas do not get your mocking thing comment. As far as the difference in Pad Sheds are concerned that is bacause of lack of Gurbani Viakaran. As Gurbani Viakaran is now getting the popularity in Panth, those differences will be erased with time.

With Regards,
Daas

i dont really belive in gurbani vikaran or atleast the ones that are discussed on here

oddslot

thanks for RUINING the thread .... keep it up

Chota veer

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thanks for RUINING the thread .... keep it up

Chota veer,
~*Chatrik*~

anytime veere!

chartrik jio it was just a random question...im sure any regular singh or singhni would notice this mistake above and bring it up.
chalo if u think it ruined the thread, then i guess it has, but according, i have just simply carried on the conversation

bhul chuk maaf

wahegurujikakhalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

sorry chatrik jee

oddslot