Coming Together...Ektaa!

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Every since I was a little kid, I have always gone to the Gurdwara. Whether this be for Punjabi/Gurmukhi class, Kirtan, Bhog, or for some other reason. Recently I’ve noticed that I’m not going to the Gurdwara. In fact, the last time I went was 3 weeks ago, and months before that. My family tends to go to house Kirtans instead. I’ve asked myself several times, but haven’t been able to come up with an appropriate answer, as to why we don’t go. And here I say “we” because I’m talking about my whole family, not just immediate. I understand that having Parkash at home is a wonderful thing, as it brings happiness, but does this also mean that we no longer have to go to the Gurdwara? I personally don’t think this, but some people in my family seem to think this. The need for Sangat is there, that is why they go to house Kirtans. House Kirtans cannot be a replacement to going to the Gurdwara. Some need to understand that this Sangat needs to also happen outside of home. Coming together as a family is great, but it is not the same as going to the Gurdwara.

I sometimes ask a family member to go to the Gurdwara for Kirtan, instead of doing a house Kirtan. The response I get? “I don’t like it there [because of the people]. I cannot connect with them, as they are different.” By different they mean Rehit and Bibek wise. I understand this, but doesn’t this also imply that they are thinking high of themselves? How can we judge the level of spirituality a person is at? Who are we to judge? We go to the Gurdwara for Kirtan, not for the “type” of people. Not everyone is the same, and it just so happens to be that everyone thinks a bit differently, therefore having different view and opinions on certain matters. Just because we keep Bibek and Rehit, we are not “higher” than others. This is a form of Ahankar [ego], which is what we are to avoid. I think that instead of house programs, going to the Gurdwara is much better.

There are bound to be difference, but did that stop any of the Guru Sahibs? No (to the best of my knowledge). Instead of everyone doing their own thing and trying to make their own “Jatha”, we should all be coming together as one; ekta. Is this not why guru Gobdin Singh Ji created Khalsa? Who are we to tell other people that they should keep rehit, when ours isn’t even proper? If differences start to divide the Panth, I’m sure that in the coming future, there will be even more Jatha, all doing their own things, making to harder to come together.

I believe that it’s time to act, and bring the Panth back together, before things really get out of hands. We are humans, we are all different, and therefore we cannot cooperate with everyone, because we can only cooperate with those whom we love, those we have pyaar for. What we can do it try to understand everyone, their opinions, beliefs, and values, and know the reasons behind them. Then come to a consensus about what is right and wrong. We can only “predict” what is right and wrong, we don’t know for ourselves, so we can’t tell others to do this, and not do that. Tolerating people is a good first step, a way to start this change, a way to bring the Panth back together, as one. We should look for faults within ourselves, rather than others. We cannot judge others. We only see with our eyes, the physical appearance. In the end, it is not the looks that will determine the deeds of a person, it is their state of mind. (Kind of off topic. Sorry)

Right now, there are 3 Jathas that I’m aware of. The Akand Kirtani Jatha (AKJ), started by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji. Then there is the Taksal, started by Sant Bhindrawale Ji. I believe that these different groups of people should come together, and discuss their differences. I understand it’s been in the past, and hasn’t worked out. Giving up never gets a person anywhere. You don’t succeed, try again. Besides, we have drank Amrit of the same Khanday the Bata. Then why these differences? If you don’t agree with another, or do not like what they are doing, don’t waste your time preaching them. It will be of no use, especially if you’ve tried before. Besides, those who think they are right, may very well be wrong. It all depends on the way we interpret things. Who are we to tell people what Sikhi is, when we ourselves are just discovering it. Those who truly know what it is to be a real Gursikh will never show it. Be humble. This is not a religion of force, and because of all the controversies that exist within this religion, other people are starting to think that this religion is all about “do this, don’t do that”. But it’s not, and we have to show the world that. How are we going to do that when all the Sikhs can’t come to agree on what Sikhism is? This is a religion of peace and unity, and that is the image we need to show the world. The deed of one person brings a bad name to the entire Panth, and we cannot let that same.

It’s okay to have different views and opinions on matters, but it should not affect the Panth as a whole. Come together, hand in hand, as brothers and sisters, and make our mother, Mata Sahib Kaur Ji, and our father, Guru Gobind Singh Ji, proud of their children, the Sikh Panth. Attend different gurdwaras, and help others feel the presence of Vaheguru as well. Forget your surroundings, and the people around you. Focus only on the Kirtan, and try to understand its meaning. This is the way to come together. Ektaa!!!

*Note: I mentioned that one should not try preaching others. In case some think that I’m preaching here, I’m not. I simply wanted to let the Panth know of how I feel; living as a Sikh, but surrounded with so many differences, I’m completely lost. I want your help to spread the word. Hopefully one day, we will all see it happen, “Raj Karayga Khalsa!!”

Bhul chuk mahf karna,

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

If these differences were based on just a few individuals, that would have been easier to resolve. But these differences are more serious than that. These differences pertain to things like length of Mool Mantar, Raag Mala being Bani or not, emphasis on Lareevaar Saroop or being accepting towards pad-chhed, Keski vs Kesh as kakaar, the list goes on. Sorry to disappoint you, but neither Jathebandi (as far I know) is ready to budge an inch from their stand. Yes we can still stay united under one Nishan Sahib as fellow GurSikhs, but I highly doubt (yet strongly wish) that we could have ONE SINGLE Maryada for the entire Khalsa Panth someday. For me, personally, that day would be a dream come true.

veer mehtab singhs dream come true


would be the day that we can hope and see the reality of this "khalsa raaj" we all look forward to so much

Dass was thiking on similar lines few days back, and the following came to the mind:

There have been various instances where chardi-kala Singhs (even Brahmgyanis) have directly sought answers from Guru Sahibaans regarding some maryadas.
Some instances that come to mind are:

Baba Harnam Singh Ji Rampur -Khera wale sought Baba Budhha Ji's directions as to the correct vidhi of taking Hukamnama - and were blessed with their darsha and told the correct maryada.

Baba Harnam Singh Ji Rampur -Khera wale sought Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji's views as to whether Guru Sahib hears ardass done by rehat-waan Singha also, or only of Pooran Brahmgyanis - and again Guru Sahib gave darshan and cleared the doubts

Bhai Rama Singh Ji - about Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji's darshan and mentioning about keski, etc and many others instances involving Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj, etc.

Why can't any pooran Brahmgyaani (or even Chardi-kala Punj Pyaare) do such an ardass and request for Guru Sahib's direct revelations regarding all the points that differ from Jatha to jatha. If Guru Sahib does kirpa, all the confusions regarding Keski vs kesh, Laarivaar saroop, mool-mantra, and any other issues. Then the whole Sikh Panth (under the guidance of the Jathedars of all the Takht Sahibs) should follow the Hukam of Guru Sahibaan.

This way perhaps the differences may get resolved to a large extent.
Of course, this is all Akal Purakh's will!

The sad part is, how many Gurmukhs do we have in the Panth today who match anywhere close to the above mentioned ones?

Bhai Mehtab Singh Jee! Don't lose faith, Bhai Sahib has written that the number of Gurmukhs in the House of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee will never diminish. So be assured, they are still around (but probably secretly), and it is probably only because of their divine presence in this world that others can too can jap Naam.

Back onto topic, darkness4ever jee I think things are really too far gone at this stage to try and solve, there is not long left of Kaljug now, after the end of which all the true Gurmukhs will unite to take charge of Khalsa Raaj, as per writings of the Gurmukhs

So in these dangerous days, best for us just to worry about our own selves, and engage in maximum rehat, Naam Abhiyaas, Gurbani Paath & Kirtan etc

I agree not to agree with the above said views. A physician friend of mine is strictly against such miracle tales of Darshan. The idea he promotes is that why you need such dream-directions, at the first instance. He analyzes such experiences (narrated as above) in psychological terms of medical science.

I am not going to doubt what is written in these books. But I am strictly against the dependance on these experiences. We do not need BRAHMGYAN, to be rational and logical. A normal man in his senses knows how to behave with his fellow brothers and sisters as well. We should learn how to debate, without losing brotherhood. All battles are to be fought in our brains. This is part of our growth as a man, as a sikh.

MB Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree not to agree with the above said views. A
> physician friend of mine is strictly against such
> miracle tales of Darshan. The idea he promotes is
> that why you need such dream-directions, at the
> first instance. He analyzes such experiences
> (narrated as above) in psychological terms of
> medical science.
>
> I am not going to doubt what is written in these
> books. But I am strictly against the dependance on
> these experiences. We do not need BRAHMGYAN, to be
> rational and logical. A normal man in his senses
> knows how to behave with his fellow brothers and
> sisters as well. We should learn how to debate,
> without losing brotherhood. All battles are to be
> fought in our brains. This is part of our growth
> as a man, as a sikh.


Then why these jathebandis ??? Why is the difference in rehits and other issues?
If logic can provide all answers, and Brahmgyan is not needed, then why is this state of Sikh Panth?

"Soche Soch Na Hovaye, Jey Sochi Lakh Vaar..."

MB Singh jeeo,

ਗੁਸਤਾਖ਼ੀ ਮੁਆਫ਼ ਕਰਨੀ ਜੀ। ਆਪ ਜੀ ਨਾਲਿ ਥੋੜਾ ਇਖ਼ਤਿਲਾਫ਼ ਕਰਨ ਲਗੇ ਹਾਂ ਜੀ।

Quote

We do not need BRAHMGYAN, to be rational and logical.

How can one achieve rationality and logic without realizing the Truth? Unless one realizes the Haqiqat (Truth), there is no way one can be rational. The eyes see falsehood, and the ears hear falsehood. The mind analyzes falsehood. Where is there room for any rationality and logic. Yes, taking guidance of Gurmat (Gurbani) we do make conjectures towards truth, logic and rationality but the efforts are perfect only when the divine wisdom dawns in the heart. Haqiqat can be realized only when our mind gets touched by the True Substance - Naam.

I would like to give an example to highlight this point. There comes a Pankiti in Gurbani that goes as follows:

ਲੇ ਪਖਾ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਝਲਉ ਪਾਏ ॥
ਭਾਗਿ ਗਏ ਪੰਚ ਦੂਤ ਲਾਵੇ ॥2॥

The literal meaning of this Pankiti is that "May I sit in the feet of my beloved and fan his feet" and many translators have surprisingly done just these meanings of this Pankiti. If you think rationally, who fans the feet of her beloved? This makes no sense at all and this lacks rationality and logic.

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee had reached the high planes of spirituality and did very unique meanings of this Pankiti. Bhai Sahib writes that at the time when, the Charan Kamal of Vaheguru appear in the Naabh Kamal, may I fan the Charan Kamal by doing Swaas Swaas Abhyaas. Doing so, causes the five thieves to run away.

To be truly rational and logical, Brahmgyaan is required because only then one can see the true Haqiqat.

Having said that, your point is well taken that we should not just sit and wait for miracles to happen and should do positive effort to bring about the change in the world.

Bhul Chuk dee Maafi jee.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Darknessforever jeeo,

Regarding House Kirtan Vs Gurdwara Kirtan, it is a matter of personal choice. Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee's mission was to have "Ghar Ghar andar Dharamshaal" i.e. to have Satsangat in each house of Gursikhs. But you are correct in saying that going to Gurdwara Sahib is a different spiritual experience because there is more Sangat there. You seem to be a young Gursikh who wants to have more experience of Gurdwara Sangat and you seem to prefer Gurdwara satsang as opposed to house Kirtans. There is nothing wrong in this. Your family should allow you to go to Gurdwara Sahib too. I agree that if you like going to Gurdwara Sahib, then you should be allowed to go.

But by the same token, if someone does not want to go to certain Sangat for whatever reason, you should respect their choice. Sometimes its better to not go to a certain place, if it makes the waters of your heart restless. When it comes to spirituality, one should do that what brings one closer to the Shabad i.e. Guru Sahib. The main thing is to achieve the combination of Shabad-Surat. Wherever and however this is done, is the best route for a Gurmukh.

Regarding your thoughts on Panthik Ekta, the emotion behind your post is quite understandable and it makes sense too. You are asking a question that many have raised before but no one has been able to resolve. Basically, you are asking, why there can't be unity in the Panth. At individual level, we are too small to resolve a problem that involves the whole Panth and for this reason, we can't get stressed out or worry. We can do our own little part and leave the worry out.

Kulbir Singh

Veer Kulbir Singh Ji and Veer JP Singh Ji ---------------Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

I think, I was misunderstood in the meanings of the words as Brahamgyan, Rationality and Logic. Probably, I did not use the words correctly.

I agree, Veer Kulbir Singh Ji, that real rationalism or real logic is to blindly follow the path of Guru Sahib and thus achieve Gyan or Brahm Gyan (what so ever one deserves). There is no second opinion on these facts of GURBANI.

I simply wanted to say that even if we are not as lucky as to be blessed with BRAHAM GYAN (i.e highest of the highest WISDOM), the simple worldly traits of common sense, logic, rational views etc are minimum desired in a sikh and we should try to adhere to those while discussing issues. We do need BRAHAMGYAN (as our target), BRAHAMGYANIS (as our ideals); but we do not need this topmost level of spirituality to behave as a disciplined sikh soldier of the GURU.

We easily learn rules of the companies we work, we easily learn the rules of the university we study in; but why we need BRAHAMGYAN, when we are asked to behave nice as a sikh. Someone told me that western people (we often condemn them for lack of spirituality) behave very very nicely in their meetings or discussions. Do we do that?

EKTA?

Even if we have BRAHAMGYANIES to help us to decide some points; what is the gurantee that every body and every generation will be satisfied with those decisions?

When we look for BRAHAMGYANIES for help; do not we unintenionally undermine the concept of living Guru with us? Who is above the GURU HIMSELF?

Does not every JATHEBANDI has his own priority list of BRAHAMGYANIES? and those "B.G." are said to have varied opinions on some issues, sometimes?

The original poster Veer Ji, seems to be a young sikh. I am sorry for such rough talk in this thread.

CONCLUSION:

Why to wait others? Guru Sahib is there to help us.

and as said by Veer Kulbir Singh Ji

"At individual level, we are too small to resolve a problem that involves the whole Panth and for this reason, we can't get stressed out or worry. We can do our own little part and leave the worry out."

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee had reached the high planes of spirituality and did very unique meanings of this Pankiti. Bhai Sahib writes that at the time when, the Charan Kamal of Vaheguru appear in the Naabh Kamal, may I fan the Charan Kamal by doing Swaas Swaas Abhyaas. Doing so, causes the five thieves to run away.

To be truly rational and logical, Brahmgyaan is required because only then one can see the true Haqiqat.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Kulbir singh ji

Wonderful post.I fully agree. There is no difference between Brahmgianis and God.They can have His Darshan whenever they desire. It is difficult for an ordinary person to understand this.

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਸੋ ਹਰਿ ਜੇਹਾ ॥
हरि का सेवकु सो हरि जेहा ॥
Har kā sevak so har jehā.
The Lord's servant becomes like the Lord.

ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਹੁ ਮਾਣਸ ਦੇਹਾ ॥
भेदु न जाणहु माणस देहा ॥
Bẖeḏ na jāṇhu māṇas ḏehā.
Do not think that, because of his human body, he is different

Ang 1076


ਸਜਣ ਮਿਲੇ ਸਜਣਾ ਜਿਨ ਸਤਗੁਰ ਨਾਲਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
सजण मिले सजणा जिन सतगुर नालि पिआरु ॥
Sajaṇ mile sajṇā jin saṯgur nāl pi▫ār.
The friends who love the True Guru, meet with the Lord, the True Friend.

ਮਿਲਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਤਿਨੀ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਸਚੈ ਪ੍ਰੇਮਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
मिलि प्रीतम तिनी धिआइआ सचै प्रेमि पिआरु ॥
Mil parīṯam ṯinī ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā sacẖai parem pi▫ār.
Meeting their Beloved, they meditate on the True Lord with love and affection.

ਮਨ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਅਪਾਰਿ ॥
मन ही ते मनु मानिआ गुर कै सबदि अपारि ॥
Man hī ṯe man māni▫ā gur kai sabaḏ apār.
Their minds are appeased by their own minds, through the incomparable Word of the Guru's Shabad.

ਏਹਿ ਸਜਣ ਮਿਲੇ ਨ ਵਿਛੁੜਹਿ ਜਿ ਆਪਿ ਮੇਲੇ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥
एहि सजण मिले न विछुड़हि जि आपि मेले करतारि ॥
Ėhi sajaṇ mile na vicẖẖuṛėh jė āp mele karṯār.
These friends are united, and will not be separated again; they have been united by the Creator Lord Himself.

ਇਕਨਾ ਦਰਸਨ ਕੀ ਪਰਤੀਤਿ ਨ ਆਈਆ ਸਬਦਿ ਨ ਕਰਹਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
इकना दरसन की परतीति न आईआ सबदि न करहि वीचारु ॥
Iknā ḏarsan kī parṯīṯ na ā▫ī▫ā sabaḏ na karahi vīcẖār.
Some do not believe in the Blessed Vision of the Guru's Darshan; they do not contemplate the Shabad.

ਵਿਛੁੜਿਆ ਕਾ ਕਿਆ ਵਿਛੁੜੈ ਜਿਨਾ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
विछुड़िआ का किआ विछुड़ै जिना दूजै भाइ पिआरु ॥
vicẖẖuṛi▫ā kā ki▫ā vicẖẖuṛai jinā ḏūjai bẖā▫e pi▫ār.
The separated ones are in love with duality - what more separation can they suffer?

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਸੇਤੀ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਥੋੜੜਿਆ ਦਿਨ ਚਾਰਿ ॥
मनमुख सेती दोसती थोड़ड़िआ दिन चारि ॥
Manmukẖ seṯī ḏosṯī thoṛ▫ṛi▫ā ḏin cẖār.
Friendship with the self-willed manmukhs lasts for only a few short days.

ਇਸੁ ਪਰੀਤੀ ਤੁਟਦੀ ਵਿਲਮੁ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਇਤੁ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਚਲਨਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ ॥
इसु परीती तुटदी विलमु न होवई इतु दोसती चलनि विकार ॥
Is parīṯī ṯutḏī vilam na hova▫ī iṯ ḏosṯī cẖalan vikār.
This friendship is broken in an instant; this friendship leads to corruption.

ਜਿਨਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਚੇ ਕਾ ਭਉ ਨਾਹੀ ਨਾਮਿ ਨ ਕਰਹਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥
जिना अंदरि सचे का भउ नाही नामि न करहि पिआरु ॥
Jinā anḏar sacẖe kā bẖa▫o nāhī nām na karahi pi▫ār.
They do not fear the True Lord within their hearts, and they do not love the Naam.

ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ ਸਿਉ ਕਿਆ ਕੀਚੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਜਿ ਆਪਿ ਭੁਲਾਏ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥੧॥
नानक तिन सिउ किआ कीचै दोसती जि आपि भुलाए करतारि ॥१॥
Nānak ṯin si▫o ki▫ā kīcẖai ḏosṯī jė āp bẖulā▫e karṯār. ||1||
O Nanak, why become friends with those whom the Creator Lord Himself has misled? ||1||

ang 587