pakhand bibek

Everyone has the right to keep whatever rehit they may, but if someone claims to be a bibeki and violates dietry bibek rules then they are misleading the sangat. newcomers may also get the wrong idea of dietry bibek. Bibeki food is when a rehitvaan amritdhari has cooked/made the food from single ingredients. If you buy something where more then 1 ingredient has been processed together then that is not bibek. The term bibek has turned into a joke. We all know the minimum requirement to do degh seva is to keep dietry bibek (ideally sarbloh bibek). its the duty of the head sevadaar of degh to make sure all sevadaars are bibeki. they sould be questioned on their basic rehit. if the head degh sevadar lets anyone do seva, then he/she is not worthy of such a high seva. the head degh sevadaar has a huge responsbility to make sure all sevadaars are tyar bar tyar bibeki gursikhs.
I've noticed the following big violations in dietary bibek, and these gursikhs also do seva in preparing degh:
- Its ok to have a packet of crisps because its been made in a factory.
- Put cereal (weetabix, cornflakes etc) into a bata and add milk then without shame eat it (while claiming to follow the high rehit of sarbloh bibek)
- Eat salted butter, the excuse is that only one extra ingredient has been added so its a minor thing.
- Eating yogurt which has added ingredients such as sugar.
- Having fruit juices from cartons; this is a joke, it doesnt take much time to make your own juice in a blender, absolutely no excuse for this dhill in bibek

Gurbani says "phit dhrig chaturayee" i.e. cursed is cleverness. these so called bibekis try to justify their actions by saying its ok to eat processed food because you also eat processed food like sugar....Well there are many levels to dietry bibek. The highest level would be to grow your own sugarcanes and then process them yourself. but the minimum standard of bibek is that it should be a single ingredient. Now even though sugar has been refined and cut for us, it is still a single ingredient therefore acceptable for use in bibeki food. Another e.g. flour, porridge oats have been processed and cut for us, but it's still acceptable as it's a single ingredient. I cannot think of any examples at this time.
Even something simple as salted butter is unacceptable because 2 ingredients have been processed together. if you don't like the rules of bibek or you think its bramanvaad then don't keep this rehit! atleast you wont be misleading newcomers and unlawfully getting your way into doing degh seva. There are also some who claim to keep sarbloh bibek but then drink water from a bottle when they feel too thirsty. Either bring a bata with you or have self control please.

Sorry for the directness of this post, but we need sort these massive dhills out.

A request to elder gursikhs on this forum to speak up against this violation of dietry bibek.
Pakhand rules in this kaljug, maybe guru sahib save us.

awesome post. direct is good. i had never been told that in order to keep sarbloh bibek properly, you need to cook by using only pure ingredients. so thank you so much for sharing.

"Bibek means only one gredient processed" is an impressive theory. That is woderful and brief guiding principle.

Certainly Veer Ji is direct in his statements. No Dhills are allowed. Gone are the days, when laxity was tolerated. It is 21st century.

It seems, many of the Kirtan Programme, will be without DEG, if we have to strictly obey these directions.

Vaheguru!

It's hard to disagree with what you have written "Vivek" jeeo. You have said it all. May Guru Sahib bless us with Pooran Gurmat Bibek.

Kulbir Singh

Vaheguru, the truth is very hard to accept. This moorakh is probably guilty of all these violations (and more) that Vivek jee has listed so I will certainly try and abstain from doing any Degh or Langar Seva at smagams until such a time when these dhills are cleared (hopefully sooner rather than later if a Gurmukh gives me glance of grace).

I would also like to follow on from what Bhai Sahib said above, if there is not such a Gursikh present at a program who fulfills all criteria to do Degh Seva would it then be better for no Degh to be prepared at all? Also, what are the views on taking medicines, supplements, health foods etc?

Looking back in the akj history and lifestyle of rehitvaan singhs, it seems to be perfectly fine to take medicine. Although a varied diet is the best option supplements for good health probably falls under medicine. Interestingly medicine is a collection of chemicals (even finer then a single ingredient).
From what I've seen in the jatha there are normally atleast 1 or 2 bibeki gursikhs around even in local sangat. In akj programmes there is a standard. For normal sangat almost anyone can do degh seva really. What other jathebandiya do is their concern.
It is always been a known fact that bibeki food is made from single ingredients. In this modern age we now seem the need to appear like we keep these pratan rehits but we ignore the fundamentals of the rehits making it invalid. If someone has a hunger problem then they can eat more parshaday, there is no need what so ever to start eating non bibeki food to satisfy hunger, while claiming to be bibeki.

"Vivek" Ji, according to you "It is always been a known fact that bibeki food is made from single ingredient."
Do you have any documentation to back-up this "known" claim?

Bhai Randhir Singh Ji writes in "ਜੇਲ੍ਹ ਚਿੱਠੀਆਂ" that while traveling on a prison train under custody he partook in a sharbat made of water and "sirjorr" (gurrh). Gurrh requires more than one ingredient to make (cane juice and sodium biocarbonate), so by your definition is NOT bibek.

Are you stating that Bhai Randhir Singh Ji followed "pakhand bibek" as you describe it?

Here is a direct reference from ਜੇਲ੍ਹ ਚਿੱਠੀਆਂ :

"ਪਸ਼ੌਰੀ ਸਿਰਜੋੜ ਦਾ ਸ਼ਰਬਤ ਮਿਸਰੀ ਤੋਂ ਭੀ ਵੱਧ ਨਿਖਰਵਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਰਸਦਾਇਕ ਸੀ। ਦਾਸ ਭੀ ਆਪਣੇ ਠੰਡੇ ਜਲ ਦੇ ਮਟ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਇਕ ਅਧ ਬਾਟਾ ਭਰ ਕੇ ਅਤੇ ਸਿਰਜੋੜ (ਗੁੜ) ਘੋਲ ਕੇ ਛਕ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਸੀ।"
- section: ਮੁਲਤਾਨ ਤੋਂ ਹਜ਼ਾਰੀ ਬਾਗ ਜੇਲ੍ਹ ਨੂੰ (pages ੧੨੯-੧੩੦) ਜੇਲ੍ਹ ਚਿੱਠੀਆਂ

I agree with Bhai Naranjan Singh here. Sugar or Gurr, even though is processed, has been an acceptable ingredient for Bibeki Gursikhs. But by using the precedence of Sugar or GuR, more processed food or new processed foods are not appropriate to include as Bibek.

Kulbir Singh

Dass remembers reading somewhere in the Autobiography that Bhai Sahib also used sago once to prepare kheer when he was in jail.Think it is mentioned towards the end. (those small white pearls look alike)

Chota veer

Quote
Kulbir Singh
But by using the precedence of Sugar or GuR, more processed food or new processed foods are not appropriate to include as Bibek.

Bhai Sahib jio, Daas has lot of dhil ( probably all which Vivek ji has mentioned) in Bibek and I am trying to eliminate all these dhils but I am confused wiith your statement. In america, Apples and Tomatoes have wax. Rice is also not one ingredient any more. The list is unlimited, I am not looking for a excuse but I am really confused. The one ingredient theory eliminates lot of things, primarily Milk, sugar, .. lot of vegetables and fruits.

How can one be sure about anything you buy from the grocery stores.

Bhul Chuk Di Khima Ji.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Veer Ji, "one ingredient formula" is an easy tip for Bibek. It may not be "fool proof" in itself. Yet it serves its purpose that Bibek starts at the point of preparation or cooking.

I feel soduim bicarbonate falls into the chemical category (finer then a single ingredient) so guR is fine.
Milk doesn't have added ingredients, it is processed for health reasons.
You can even get natural yoghurt without added ingredients.

If I'm wrong about the single ingredient theory then I apologise. It will make my life easier, I can now get a vegetarian pizza from the shop and cook in a sarbloh tray in my oven. I can also save time in cutting potatoes and get ready made chips.

Quote

Bhai Sahib jio, Daas has lot of dhil ( probably all which Vivek ji has mentioned) in Bibek and I am trying to eliminate all these dhils but I am confused wiith your statement. In america, Apples and Tomatoes have wax. Rice is also not one ingredient any more. The list is unlimited, I am not looking for a excuse but I am really confused. The one ingredient theory eliminates lot of things, primarily Milk, sugar, .. lot of vegetables and fruits.

uncooked rice, flour, grains etc. are just fine. Fruits, vegetables (again uncut) are fine. Sugar is fine too. When I said processed, I meant stuff like cereals, cooked rice, cooked popcorns, or juices etc.

Sorry for the misunderstanding "Maha-paapi" jeeo.

Kulbir Singh

so it is ok for us to get buy packed yogurt from the store provided it is natural?
in other words it should be raw yogurt?

as have been wondering where do bibekis get "de'hi da jaag" for making yogurt at home.

Chota veer

Quote

so it is ok for us to get buy packed yogurt from the store provided it is natural?
in other words it should be raw yogurt?

as have been wondering where do bibekis get "de'hi da jaag" for making yogurt at home.

Yogurt can be made very easily from milk and it's not appropriate to buy store yogurt. As for Jaag, this is the question similar to what came first - hen or egg. I don't know for how long Gursikhs have had jaag here in Toronto but we have had it for many years. We can always borrow jaag from other Gursikhs.

I know one Gursikh who did not have any Jaag and he first used non-bibeki yogurt for Jaag. Then he made yogurt using that Jaag but did not consume this yogurt but gave it away after keeping jaag. This way he recycled jaag few times till he felt comfortable to use it for his final Bibeki Yogurt.

Kulbir Singh

ਛੋਡਿ ਛੋਡਿ ਰੇ ਪਾਖੰਡੀ ਮਨ ਕਪਟੁ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥
shhodd shhodd rae paakhanddee man kapatt n keejai ||
O hypocrite, renounce and abandon your hypocrisy; do not practice deception.
ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤਹਿ ਲੀਜੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
har kaa naam nith nithehi leejai ||1|| rehaao ||
Constantly, continually, chant the Name of the Lord. ||1||Pause||

If we want to define "pakhand bibek" as per the standards or level of ਪਾਖੰਡ used in the above Gurbani Pankiti; then it seems no problem. But otherwise, the title of this post seems slightly inappropriate. The points Veer Ji has discussed in his original post are more or less DHILs in Bibek. Those may or may not be hypocracy. Those who are likely to go for these relaxations in Bibek at certain situations should not be called ਪਾਖੰਡੀ. Something is always better than nothing. We need to create an atmosphere of mutual respect and love.

BAAKI BHAI, BINA DANDE TON EH MANN KAABU VEE NAHIN ANDAA. Veer Ji is correct in pointing out different "dhils", which we are living with.

maha_paapi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > But by using the precedence of Sugar or GuR,
> more processed food or new processed foods are not
> appropriate to include as Bibek.
>
>
>
>
> Bhai Sahib jio, Daas has lot of dhil ( probably
> all which Vivek ji has mentioned) in Bibek and I
> am trying to eliminate all these dhils but I am
> confused wiith your statement. In america, Apples
> and Tomatoes have wax. Rice is also not one
> ingredient any more. The list is unlimited, I am
> not looking for a excuse but I am really
> confused. The one ingredient theory eliminates lot
> of things, primarily Milk, sugar, .. lot of
> vegetables and fruits.
>
> How can one be sure about anything you buy from
> the grocery stores.
>
> Bhul Chuk Di Khima Ji.
>
> Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
> Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!


In America and other places fruits and some vegetables like applies and tomatoes have wax which are made out of dead ants. This wax is added to make ingredinets look shiney and attract customers. If the fruit or vegetable doesnt have a shine then most likely it doesnt have wax. If you are still concerned you can removed the skin of the apple. In America you can buy non- waxed rice from Indian stores . Im sure the bay area has plenty of Indian stores to get Indian rice.


www.eatbibek.com

antar bibek sadaa app vichaar gur shabdi gun gaavaneya

About yogurt, this intriguied me so I did some googling and found this, the last post on the page being the most useful:
[chowhound.chow.com]

"My mother-in-law from India taught me how to make yogurt without a starter.. use a small tamarind (u can get dried at Indian store) and a dried red chili in only a small amount of boiled milk. You let that set, then use that for the starter of the next batch. Repeat steps of boiling small amount of milk and using the new set "starter" until the yogurt smells correctly (about 4-5 times)"

Anyone want to try it out?

Thank you Vivek Ji for creating awareness about this issue. I too have also had the same incling about certain individuals who do Degh Dee Sevaa and give the impression that it has been made by Sarblohi Singhs but then having looked at their dietary Bibek, you find that their is hardly anything that would be classified as Gurmat Bibek within their diet, i.e. processed foods, food made in other utensils apart from Sarbloh and then placed in a Sarbloh Bata afterwards and giving the impression that it is Bibek. Degh should not be made from butter (salted) but from 'keww' (clarified butter - ghee). Rehitnamae from Guru Gobind Singh Ji have made it very clear how Degh is meant to be made and what ingredients are only allowed. Keww is mentioned numerous times so there is no excuse for making Degh with butter instead.