Does one ever get forgiven? If so, how?

Dear Sadh Sangat Ji,

On previous occassions also, few posts have been put by various people asking similar questions; however no clear response has been got (may be, because there is no clear response to this!).

Anyways, my humble query is, if a person has done grave sins in the past (including maybe, even bujjar-kurehits), and then eventually realizing his mistakes again gets initiated into amrit, will he be forgiven for his past sins? (looks like an easy way out, right?...just do kurehits and then re-take amrit!!!).

If not, what should he do to be forgiven by Waheguru? Ardas is obvious....anything else???
How will he know whether his ardass is accepted and he is forgiven? It is mentioned in Jap Ji Sahib "kachh pakayi othe payei..."! Then is there no way to find out if Waheguru Ji has forgiven us for those sins?

On the other hand, if we are not forgiven, then how are we being treated any different from someone who hasn't even realized his mistakes and is not begging for forgiveness?

Apologies if my post is little confusing (because that's my state of mind right now!).

Thanks,
Dass
JP

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

My two cents:

There are two scenarios after a sin is committed.
The first one being that if the respective person does not regret/repent, then the saza (as directed through the court of Dharam Rai is added to his/her Karam). So this case is fairly simple...you make a mistake and you get punished accordingly.

The second scenario is when a person makes a mistake and realizes that he/she has done something wrong. Now according to the following Gurbani Pankti:

ਲੇਖੁ ਨ ਮਿਟਈ ਹੇ ਸਖੀ ਜੋ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਕਰਤਾਰਿ ॥

Lekha not be erased, so basically you will get punished accordingly for your respective sins. But, this is where Guru Sahib come into picture. He has the power to convert one's punishments into mere dreams, if He pleases. And in order to please Him, one needs to obey his Hukams. There are at-least three sakhis which I can remember from the top of my head, which are directly related to this:

1. The sakhi of one person finding a pot of tarnished gold coins and the other getting hurt in his leg.
2. Sakhi of a raja going to Guru Sahib and asking him the need to obey the Guru if the above mentioned pankti is true and lekha cannot be erased.
3. Sakhi of Bhai Daala Ji (I might be getting the name wrong), where he requests Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Jee for liberation from janam maran, and the following night he dreams of the three lives he was to have after his death.

Please correct me, if I am wrong with respect to the details of the Sakhis mentioned above.

Hence, according to my little understanding, lekha does not get erased hence one has to bear the punishments.
But, yes one does get forgiven, ie, forgiveness is possible if Guru Sahib is happy and then the punishments become very minimal.
( punishments as mere dreams is one way, there could be others...only Guru Sahib knows)

Guru Sahib knows best.

ਮਃ ੪ ॥
Fourth Mehl:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਤੀ ਗਣਤ ਜਿ ਰਖੈ ਹਲਤੁ ਪਲਤੁ ਸਭੁ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਗਇਆ ॥
One who enters into a calculated relationship with the True Guru loses everything, this world and the next.

ਨਿਤ ਝਹੀਆ ਪਾਏ ਝਗੂ ਸੁਟੇ ਝਖਦਾ ਝਖਦਾ ਝੜਿ ਪਇਆ ॥
He grinds his teeth continually and foams at the mouth; screaming in anger, he perishes.

ਨਿਤ ਉਪਾਵ ਕਰੈ ਮਾਇਆ ਧਨ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਅਗਲਾ ਧਨੁ ਭੀ ਉਡਿ ਗਇਆ ॥
He continually chases after Maya and wealth, but even his own wealth flies away.

ਕਿਆ ਓਹੁ ਖਟੇ ਕਿਆ ਓਹੁ ਖਾਵੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਹਸਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਇਆ ॥
What shall he earn, and what shall he eat? Within his heart, there is only cynicism and pain.

ਨਿਰਵੈਰੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਜਿ ਵੈਰੁ ਰਚਾਏ ਸਭੁ ਪਾਪੁ ਜਗਤੈ ਕਾ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਿਰਿ ਲਇਆ ॥
One who hates the One who has no hatred, shall bear the load of all the sins of the world on his head.

ਓਸੁ ਅਗੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਢੋਈ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਿਸੁ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਮੁਹਿ ਅੰਬੁ ਪਇਆ ॥
He shall find no shelter here or hereafter; his mouth blisters with the slander in his heart.

ਜੇ ਸੁਇਨੇ ਨੋ ਓਹੁ ਹਥੁ ਪਾਏ ਤਾ ਖੇਹੂ ਸੇਤੀ ਰਲਿ ਗਇਆ ॥
If gold comes into his hands, it turns to dust.

ਜੇ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸਰਣੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਓਹੁ ਆਵੈ ਤਾ ਪਿਛਲੇ ਅਉਗਣ ਬਖਸਿ ਲਇਆ ॥
But if he should come again to the Sanctuary of the Guru, then even his past sins shall be forgiven.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਅਨਦਿਨੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਕਿਲਵਿਖ ਪਾਪ ਗਇਆ ॥੨॥
Servant Nanak meditates on the Naam, night and day. Remembering the Lord in meditation, wickedness and sins are erased. ||2||


it seems any sin can be forgiven through naam simran, through guru's grace. so naam japo and do ardaas. rest is up to guru sahib.

Thank you Tejas Veer Jeo & 1Kaur Bhein Ji, for your kind inputs and comments!

But is there any way to know whether the sin has been forgiven by Waheguru Ji? Or must we necessarily need to wait to go to Dharam Rai...where we'll come to know about "kachh pakayi...".

Also, how does this get effected when we re-take the amrit? Surly, there would be some positive effect, right?

Kulbir Singh Jeo & other souls - please enlighten us!

Thanks,
Dass,
JP