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Gursikh response?

Posted by Theguptone 
Gursikh response?
September 21, 2010 07:34AM
Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh, sadh sangat jio,

I would like to place infront of the sangat a few similar scenarios and would request Gursikhs to share what should be the response of Gursikh in such a situation. Manmukhs like me will only make the wrong decision without knowing what Guru Sahib tells us to do. I think these are all situations we should know how to react to especially in this day and age.

1)You are walking alone and a group of gangster type/badmaash youths start insulting your dastaar,your general sikhi roop and maybe sikhi also. i.e. you are being insulted for your sikhi. Do you ignore it, respond back either with an insult or another way, do you fight them? What if after responding verbally they begin to show signs of physical agression? Do you then fight?

2)Same as above, however you are not being insulted due to your roop or sikhi, but just as an individual, perhaps they are people you know from the past who like to cause trouble. Ignore or respond?

3)You are alone and either a group or an armed individual attempts to mug you of your belongings. Attempt to verbally settle it, fight, or give the belongings? Would the response be different if it was an unarmed individual?

I hope the sangat sees the value in asking these questions, as at the end of the day when we are outside in the street alone, obviously Guru Sahib is our protecter, but many of us will have to just take maharaj's name and then deal with the situation as it is. The difference is however that we must always be mindful of the fact we are Guru de Sikh and therefore cannot act on impulse alone. Please do reply, thanks.
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Re: Gursikh response?
September 21, 2010 05:55PM
I should be the last person giving advice on these situations, because in the past I have not dealt with these sort of problems appropriately amongst strangers and relatives.

I could remember one day I was working as a Substitute teacher at a school and some kids behind me were laughing at me. I chose to ignore them at first which was not such a good idea. One of them camp up to me and started laughing and asked if he could take a picture with me. I said no, because I knew they might try to post the picture on the net and make some childish remarks. WHen I said no they walked away and kept laughing amongst the group. At this point I started thinking about how many Singhs after 9/11 kept getting made fun of so I decided to address the students. I walked up to them with an assertive approach and said "whats so funny havent you ever seen a Sikh before!" After my reply some of the students seemed to be real scared and I felt guilty because one I gave a bad impression of Sikh and second I broke Guru Sahibs hukum. Guru Sahib says that a Gursikh should never fear anyone and at the same time he should never put fear into anyone.

Through this experience and many others I am learning that we should never ignore a problem; instead, we should address such conflicts with contentment and humility by doing so we become victorious regardless of the outcome . I think the reason we tend to overreact is due to Ego; most manmukhs like myself get offended if someone attacks their beliefs or appearance. Hopefully GUru Sahib will give the knowledge to follow the following Hukum about distancing oneself(being above) praise and slander and keep Gurbani always close

ਉਸਤਤਿ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਦੋਊ ਪਰਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਉਰਿ ਆਨੋ ॥
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Re: Gursikh response?
September 21, 2010 07:52PM
I wrote the following on December 19, 2008 after reading a news about Sikh pilgrims getting attacked by a Hindu mob at a railway station in Patna, Bihar.


Quote

I could get into trouble for saying this, but I am going to say it anyways. This is the very first time I am going to say something of This sort, so please forgive me if I sound crazy or violent.

Sahib-E-Kamaal Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj Sachay Patshah said "ਚੁ ਕਾਰ ਅਜ਼ ਹਮਹ ਹੀਲਤੇ ਦਰ ਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ ॥ ਹਲਾਲ ਅਸਤ ਬੁਰਦਨ ਬ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰ ਦਸਤ", meaning "When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand". Look around you. Every single issue that we are facing as a community today has passed the "last option" finishing line way behind. Whether it is getting justice for the victims of 1984, or the turban issue of France, or the rise in hate crimes in US, things are reaching a point of "enough is enough" and the patience of Sikhs as a community is reaching its brim. When I read about Sikhs getting attacked in US, whether it is an old Singh who has a swollen face and a fractured nose, or a high school teenager who has bruises and cuts in his face, or a little girl whose ponytail gets chopped off, and then I see our Sikh organizations trying to convince these retards that we are not Muslims/Arabs/Afghans, I feel ashamed. When I see the media showing a sad looking old Singh with a swollen face, or a teenager almost crying with blue scars on his face, I feel ashamed. I feel ashamed to see that This community of lions, born from the Sarbloh Khanda is bloody advertising itself as being a group of chickens who are begging not to be attacked. Who are begging not to be hated. Who are begging not to be stared at.

On Jan. 17th This year I nearly got assaulted by an insane retard who thought I was a Muslims/Arab/Afghan. I reported it to the cops, they did nothing. I contacted Sikh Coalition who tried their best, but the cops did nothing. In fact, Sikh Coalition was more concerned about my safety than I was myself! You know what I told my dad? I told him, dad, so far you've been reading news headlines about an old Singh who has a swollen face and a fractured nose, or a high school teenager who has bruises and cuts in his face, or a little girl whose ponytail gets chopped off. I am telling you, if someone dares to touch me, you will read in the news that some retard attacked a Sikh, and the Sikh fought back, and the attacker has been crippled for life. I am not going to get beaten up like a dog because I am not one. My dad, as any dad, freaked out thinking I had lost my head, which I had.

You want justice for 1984? You think a court will get you justice? You want to wear the dastaar in France? You think all these petitions will help you out? You want hate crimes to stop in US? You think all these awareness campaigns will help? Upto an extent all of This WILL help, but what after that? How long will we weep and wail and whine about 1984? How long will we beg France to let us wear the dastaar? How long will we advertise ourselves as chickens and beg to be spared alone and not bullied/attacked?

We have to teach a lesson to all those who think we are chickens. Paper work is not helping us. Petitions, meetings, campaigns are not helping us. It has been 7 freaking years since 9/11, and even now if people don't know about Sikhs, its not totally our mistake, it is theirs. Don't become a victim of a hate crime and come home crying all bruised. If you have to, make sure the sucker who dared to touch you goes back home with missing limbs as well. It is high time these racist retards were shown their aukaat. It is high time these people were shown that Sikhs have had enough, we don't want to wait for your law to pass a decision, we will give our decision the moment you dare to touch us. What do you think the kirpan is for? The whole damn world starts banging its head if a Sikh wants to wear a Kirpan, where are they when a Sikh gets attacked? How many more hate crimes do we have to suffer to prove to these monkeys that This is EXACTLY the reason WHY we NEED the Kirpan!

As for these Biharis, well, they totally forgot about the Biharis in Punjab. They are also forgetting that if any of the Sikhs attacked had even tried to retaliate, then the entire state of Bihar would have fallen short for them to run for escape. I am telling you guys. Any time a Sikh gets attacked in any part of the world, it is because the attacker knows for SURE that he will get away with it. DO NOT LET HIM get AWAY! If you know that the law won't help you, well, it won't help him a lot either. So why not do the decision yourself and respond with 4 blows for each blow you suffer!

What is the purpose of This long message? I don't want to read any such news in future. Next time someone dares to touch your daara or dastaar, make sure he can't touch anything for the next few weeks. I am not advocating violence (trust me I am not), but what other way is left? You will wait for the cops to come and tie your dastaar for you? Or will you wait for a court judge to sign a damn piece of paper and give you an apology and tie your turban for you in court?

So what is the solution? Some Sikh organization needs to tell ALL those who are making life hell for Sikhs. Tell them in a loud, clear and firm tone, that we have had it! We cannot and will not wait for you to do justice. Justice delayed, is bloody freaking hell justice denied! If your law won't give us justice, we will take it in our hands, so either take charge of the situation in time, otherwise don't blame us if we take charge of it in our own way. We have been trying more than our level best with compassion to tackle all such situations, but it is not helping us out. At some point in future, we WILL HAVE TO take a more aggressive (no not violent) stand.

Please forgive me if This message sounds like promoting violence, but I am honestly tired and frustrated, and I have had it! I am sick of reading about Sikhs getting beaten like dogs and then showing their wounds with sad faces, and giving everyone a chance to laugh at us like we are chickens. NO! NO! NO! This has to stop. We will HAVE TO take an aggressive stand towards all the issues we face. This doesn't necessarily mean that we always pick up swords and deal with the situation with a hot head. But we have to take steps that "strangle" those who make our survival a pain. It can be economic/financial, but you have to pinch those who pinch you. Don't always get pinched and cry about it. No one will help you. Gurujee said "Koi kisay ko raaj nah deh hai, jo leh hai nijj bal se leh hai" (excuse the spelling errors), This applies even in This case. Stop begging for justice! get up, fight, grab and win it!

bhull chukk maaf

~ Mehtab Singh
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Re: Gursikh response?
September 22, 2010 10:12AM
Great post by Mehtab Singh.
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Re: Gursikh response?
September 23, 2010 01:03PM
waheguru jee...

We need to have leaders having spirit like Mehtaab veerG... but unfortunately, India is full of masands and dalaals. We only can do ardaas jio (for unity between gursikhs whether they can belong to taksaal,jatha, samajik sansthaavaans etc)...

Daas
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Re: Gursikh response?
September 23, 2010 01:56PM
VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Not an expert - from what little experience I have. This is worldly advice...Gursikhs with high avasthas are blessed with many powers to deal with such situations that people such as myself are not. Not saying that I myself can live up to my own advice either. I DO NOT make ANY claims to the legality of the below - read it and make your own decision:

1) Be aware of your surroundings. I do not want to stereotype any group or individuals, but use your own judgement when you see a group of people in a distance. Observe their behavior and their general attitude. If they are already harassing passer-bys, drunk, loud, boisterous or otherwise belligerent, it is best to take another route or keep your distance. Keeping to more public places, crowded places or stores/shops will be a deterrent to an assailant(s) - witnesses. Late night walks in dark, lonely streets or bad areas of towns/cities are a no-no. When going somewhere, know your route and know how to navigate to alternative paths. Not possible in all cases, but try your best. If you spot police, security personnel etc. nearby, keep them in your frame of reference at all times. This will help to prevent most problems.

2) Avoidance of the group/individual if possible. Keeping appropriate distance if possible. Quckening of your pace, eye contact and returning insults/attempting to engage the group conversation (if there are many and they seem to be teetering on the aggressive) may incite violence. Trust your instincts - if you feel something is not right with a certain route, take another one if possible or be hyper-vigilant of your surroundings. If you see individuals that are walking and being belligerent from a distance, if you can, stall your travel so that you can let them pass and then proceed. When driving, lock your doors. Some people believe that attempting to educate such belligerent people is good - teach them about Sikhs. Such a situation is NOT the time to do it. They are already targeting you and have some ideas in their minds that do not favor your well-being.

3) Backing out - If confronted, attempt to get out of the situation ("I don't want to fight you" etc.). But understand that you are already in a situation that the aggressors are looking to engage you in, especially if they are in numbers. Try to make it towards a public place if possible.

4) "When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand" - laws actually support this belief. Weapons can ONLY be used in situations where a person is "afraid/concerned" that his/her life is in danger. DO NOT take out a Kirpan and attack unless you are VERY sure that you were worried that either Sachkhand or another incarnation was in your near future. This question WILL be asked by police/lawyers and will affect the outcome of a court case that may proceed. Guru Sahib has already advised his Sikhs well and serious thought to that pangti is required for any Shastardhari individual, never mind a Sikh. AGAIN, understand that use of any weapon in an encounter may very well have you facing jail time, so decide quite carefully whether the situation is really that far gone. Training in use of a Kirpan or whatever Shastar would be a good idea. Having something in hands reach in the car is also a good idea (baseball bats, The Club, etc.). You should be playing when to use the Shastar by instinct and the situation. You will see when the situation is critical enough to warrant its use. If backing out is not going well, you should be preparing your defense while attempting to back out. Having a gupt Shastar may be illegal in your area. But a gupt Shastar can serve as a back-up in cases where the primary Shastar is lost. A gupt Shastar also affords a surprise attack opportunity in a dire case. REMEMBER that whether you used excessive force in a situation can also get you into trouble. Mace or strong pepper spray can also be a wonderful way to incapacitate an individual if necessary. Research must be done as to which are effective. Such devices will deter and incapicate and attacker in a non permanent means and get you out of the situation with less legal consequences.

In terms of your belongings, give the robber/mugger the stuff. Your human life is quite precious per Gurbani and not worth the 100 dollars the mugger is after. If you are really worried about losing valuables, don't carry many on your person.
Ignore as much as you can, unless you are to meet these individuals on a daily basis for some reason. If so, plan alternative routes or alternative modes of transportation. Walking and public transportation expose you to a large number of people, so alternates may be needed.

Also, some concepts:

A) Travel in groups. An individual is a much easier target than two or more. More than two are recommended.

cool smiley NEVER expect to enter a fight and come out wound free. You are going to get hurt in a fight. Having some martial arts training would be advisable for every human being on this Earth.

C) NEVER initiate the fight. Defend yourself if necessary. Don't go looking for trouble or pick a fight. You are asking for a fight and you will get it. A Sikh does not initiate a fight, but rather defends himself/herself.

D) Not every country/state/province supports the wearing of a Shastar on the outside, but it can serve as a deterrent. However, anyone who wears a Shastar on the outside should understand that any aggressor who chooses to attack you anyways may have already formulated a plan to disarm you from it. A gupt Shastar may be advisable. Again, this is not taking into account the legality of its posession.

I assure you that Bhai Mehtab Singh's feelings have gone through me plenty of times. There are times I wish I could just silence my problems with violence, but again, Guru Sahib has provided the appropriate advice. I will temper his sentiment with the above. If it comes to blows, then handle your business, but understand that there are legal consequences to your actions. Prevention will avoid MOST situations. Being aware of your surroundings and avoidance combined are a HUGE asset to any individual. As a Panth, we have to continue a peaceful route. Granted, if the situation warrants use of force as a last resort, then so be it. A Sikh is not a Jaini - we will defend ourselves IF the situation calls for it. But killing your neighbors will not grant understanding. It will foster fear and resentment, which if enough builds up, may end up with backlash against the community. So far, the Western legal systems in the U.S., U.K., Canada have supported the Sikhs and prosecuted the guilty (more or less). It means that the system is still working and Sikh organizations do push the government when needed to prosecute the guilty. I am sorry that Bhai Mehtab Singh's case was taken nowhere. There are cases where the police wanted to do nothing and Sikh organizations intervened and had the assailant charged for the crime.

So far, the single most effective technique for securing the rights (and something that the Sikh organizations need to engage in more) is suing for every incident where it is allowable. This wakes up companies and governments very quickly into action. Advocating violence at the Panthic level is not a good idea. Isolated incidents of violence are tragic - they do happen and make every Sikh unsettled because it was their brother/sister that was attacked. The push should be for prosecution and jail of the assialant. If there is a community problem - recurrent violence and attacks in a given area - legal action should be pursued along with community level protests expressing outrage at the repeated occurences. You pay taxes for protection of your area and have a RIGHT to that service. National level discrimination should be fought as hard as possible at the international scene - but understand that you are going up against a government with infinite more resources than yourself and the Sikh community. It will be tough, but a Sikh fights the fight nevertheless.

Work within the system if you can and get justice. Involve your Sikh orgs and local community to get justice.

Will stop writing for now.
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Re: Gursikh response?
September 23, 2010 02:18PM
Wonderul post Bhai ms514 jeeo!! As usual!!! smiling smiley

Veer Jatinder Singh jee, I am sorry but I don't possess any leadership qualities.

As far as my case was concerned, this was back in Jan 2008. I was waiting for the bus to go to college and this racist guy threw a cologne bottle at me, and missed. Bad aim! I just walked away and boarded the bus which was right behind his car. This happened right outside my apartment when I was in New Hampshire back then. The cops did nothing, and the reason was that I didn't get injured. They expect you to be bruised before you report ?!?!?!?!

Since then, I promised myself that if anything happens next time, I won't ignore it. Yes at times I do think out of stupidity and feel that if someone drives by yelling obscenities or showing inappropriate gestures, that I will signal them to bring it on (not my fault, its a Punjabi thing). But there is no point. We get such attitudes every now and then. Two years down the line I have realized that this is not India, and that we do have a trustworthy legal system here that infact does justice.
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Re: Gursikh response?
September 23, 2010 03:12PM
VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Also, the above in regards to getting justice does not apply in India (though the 4 steps should still have some value). India and Justice have not had a face to face meeting yet.
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Re: Gursikh response?
September 24, 2010 09:09AM
well i know one thing. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Hukam is:

Bina Shastar Kesan Nur Bhedan Jaano

Its nice to carry some shastars with you, you just in case, hot smiley
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Re: Gursikh response?
September 24, 2010 09:12AM
ਪਉੜੀ ॥
PAURI

ਚੋਟਪਈਦਮਾਮੇਦਲਾਂਮੁਕਾਬਲਾ॥
The drum was beaten and the armies attacked each other.

ਦੇਵੀਦਸਤਿਨਚਾਈਸੀਹਣਿਸਾਰਦੀ॥
The goddess caused the dancing of the lioness of steel (sword);

ਪੇਟਿਮਲੰਦੇਲਾਈਮਹਿਖੇਦੈਤਨੂੰ॥
And gave a blow to the demon Mahisha who was rubbing his belly.

ਗੁਰਦੇਆਂਦਾਖਾਈਨਾਲੇਰੁਕੜੇ॥
(The sword) pierced the kindneys, intestines and the ribs.

ਜੇਹੀਦਿਲਵਿਚਆਈਕਹੀਸੁਣਾਇਕੈ॥
Whatever hath come in my mind, I have related that.

ਚੋਟੀਜਾਣੁਦਿਖਾਈਤਾਰੇਧੂਮਕੇਤਿ॥੧੦॥
It appears that Dhumketu (the shooting star) had displayed its top-knot.10.
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Re: Gursikh response?
October 03, 2010 07:57AM
Thanks very much for your replies, sorry for not writing earlier, I have been quite busy the past few days. You have all written amazing posts. You see, I have been thinking more along the lines of what Bhai Mehtab Singh ji has written in his post these days, as I think with this roop, my reaction reflects on the rest of the community. So if I show a weak, timid reaction, this is the impression given of all the other singhs and singhnis. On the other hand you do get the same thoughts of Bhai Sukhdeep Singh Ji, which is at the same time you have to represent the saintly side to a Sikh, so its very difficult to decide and it is this difficulty which is essentially why I made this thread.
Many thanks to ms514 for the very informative post, it is truley excellent advice. However, in regards to the point about giving over belongings, at the same time, could such a moment where one is being mugged be one where we are meant to exercise our opposition to tyranny? Or is it really as veerji has said to little a thing to risk our priceless janam over? However, I can see that much of the solution is in simply avoiding such situations.
once again, great posts from everyone.
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