using Naam to select a Jathedaar

Lets say there are 2 sikhs fighting it out for the post of a Jathedaar. Instead of elections, we can make both of them sit in the hazoori of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and make them japp Gurmantar.One who lasts longer becomes the Jathedaar. What does the sangat think of this mode of selecting a Jathedaar ?

I think your answer lies within your own question. Can you imagine any gursikh who is a Naam abhiyaasi "fighting" it out for jathedhari? Why would such a gursikh "fight" with another gursikh to become the jathedhar?

Why would someone jap Naam as a means of competition? Although the idea seems good (Naam is invovled), using Naam as a means of competition seems wrong.

A Jathedhar is someone who is chosen by the sangat on mutual consenus, not on greed or demand of one person alone.

Naam should be an ongoing thing with every breath. Sitting down and jaap naam for the longest will not prove who can be jathedar. To select jathedar the whole jeevan should be looked at and the actions of the individual should be in accordance with Gurmat.

If the 2 jathedars are 'fighting' for jathedari then we should give it to neither, only the humblest Sikhs should be given this position, i.e. Nawab Kapoor Singh jee who used to do seva in the stables.

I am just trying to find a solution to what I feel is the major problem in the panth.
Panth has been divided into various organizations and those organizations are also getting futher divided. Lalach of Maya and Chauddar is dividing panth into Groups. People belonging to a particular group do the ustatt of their jathedaar/sant baba/bapu jee and do nindiya of the opposing group.(According to Gurbani, "ustatt nindaa douu tyagae")
When a new young sikh comes into sikhi, he is caught in this group rivalry.
Yes, in an ideal world, sikhs shud not be fighing it out for jathedaari, but thats not the ground reality. We have A-yog(incapable) people as our leaders/jathedaars/pardhans and this incapability spreads from top to bottom.

A person should be found who doesnt recoganize/know _{Badal Parivar} and doesnt go by his rules. Thsi person would serve the purpose of a jathedar beautifully. He should promise he would never see, meet, talk to or even SMELL,DREAM of (hahaha) Badal and his CHAMCHAAs (spoons) during his service.

Bhul Chuk Maaf !!

Instead of a Naam competition, how about if both candidates have a Kushti match. The one who wins can be the Jathadar. That way we can insure that we have the strongest and fittest Jathadars just like Puraatan Singhs.

The gursikh who is meant to be Jathedar will face no opposition.

Just the other day, this issue crossed Chatrik's mind.

Chatrik shares the same view as "Singh" ji .

But, dass wishes to go much deeper, where the problem lies.
Talking to myself, Chatrik came to this conclusion. Choosing the right candidate for Jatheydaree is already a difficult task.
But how does do we choose the people who have the right to choose the right Gurmukh for the Jatheydaar position?

Think about it, if the right people were in such positions wont we have the right Jatheydaars now?
In puratan times, Gursikhs were agiakari to Satguroo & were spiritually inclined/developed. Hence, they also choose the right Jatheydaars.

Wrong/unsuitable.mayadhari people(no bhagti in jivan) are in position of choosing nowadays Jatheydaars, how can we then expect the right candidates to be chosen?

Chota veer

the problem of choosing a jathedaar is similar to the problem of choosing any world leader.

those who are most suitable for the position are usually not interested in holding it. and those who are most interested in having the title are usually less suitable for the job. a bit of a predicament really.

Of course, we can not opt for "Naam Competion" practice; but Gurbani can certainly be the possible test. How much Gurbani one remembers by heart, how correct he can write Gurbani etc etc are certainly measureable and good indicators, for judging a Gursikh. A minimum level of education alongwith Gurbani and History knowledge are desired, to be a religious leader.

If a Jathedar Ji does not remember Jaap Sahib and Sukhmani Sahib and Assa Di Vaar, by heart; how can we expect, best of the Gurmat decisions on critical issues. We need to disqualify many of them. And Gurbani can be a best and standardized criteria, to do that.

MB Singh Wrote:
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> Of course, we can not opt for "Naam Competion"
> practice; but Gurbani can certainly be the
> possible test. How much Gurbani one remembers by
> heart, how correct he can write Gurbani etc etc
> are certainly measureable and good indicators, for
> judging a Gursikh. A minimum level of education
> alongwith Gurbani and History knowledge are
> desired, to be a religious leader.
>
> If a Jathedar Ji does not remember Jaap Sahib and
> Sukhmani Sahib and Assa Di Vaar, by heart; how can
> we expect, best of the Gurmat decisions on
> critical issues. We need to disqualify many of
> them. And Gurbani can be a best and standardized
> criteria, to do that.

Lets say an IB/RAW guy has to infiltrate into jatha.
Can he learn kirtan ? YES
Can he memorize Gurbani ? YES (there are people who study day and night and memorize so much study material, memorizing bani wont be tough for them )
Can he do some charity and samaj seva ? YES ( even radhasoamis and so many other aan-matt organizations do lots of charity and samaj seva work)
Can he japp Naam for long hours ? NOOOOOO ( Japping Naam is the toughest thing in the world).

Sometime back, I met a person who was learning Kirtan JUST BECAUSE HE HAD TO APPLY FOR KIRTAN VISA TO GERMANY. He wasnt much religious person and he was learning and memorizing lots of Gurbani.
A rehitvaan gursikh must memorize Bani but that shud not be the basis of judging one's avastha.
The toughest things in this world are
1. keep control on one's tongue and keep strong pehra of sarbloh bibek.
2. jap naam/gurbani for long hours.

Forget about non-sikhs, even amritdhari sikhs (including sikhs who keep average dietary bibek) DISLIKE SARBLOHI NAAM ABHIYAASI Gursikhs because they know that if these sarblohi naam abhiyaasi gursikhs get pardhanta (leadership) they will spoil their dreams of getting maya , chauddar, settling their sons/grandsons in UK/US/Canada etc.

With all due respect Veer Harinder Singh Jee, daas is interested to know if you ever came across a single genuine GurSikh in your entire life, or only those who want to move abroad? I have hardly seen you NOT mention them in most of your posts. Please feel free to move abroad yourself if thats what you want, otherwise please don't judge everyone out there and feel blessed to live in Punjab, the land graced by Gurujee's charn dhoor. With all due respect, no one is obliged to meet your Sikhi standards to earn khushi/kirpa of Guru Sahib. Tomorrow you may claim that falanna Singh keeps Sarabloh Bibek so that he can have a GurSikh parvaar from Toronto sponsor his visit visa to Canada. Lets rise above these labellings and judgments. Baki tuhadi marji aa.

And about your "Naam competition", I don't think thats a way to choose a jathedaar. I was told once that during the 80s there was a sarkaaree agent among the Babbar Singhs who had a 5 hour long Amritvela Nitnem.