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A question about non-bibeki langar

Posted by harinder_singh 
When I was non-amritdhari and dint know about the concept of dietary bibek, I used to be a great fan of langar. I used to love the gobi di sabzi made during Gurpurab. Even the simple daal chaull made at langar tasted so good.
So, what I wanna ask is what could be the reason that even non-bibeki langar tastes much better than other foods ?
Is it because that langar is prepared by Guru Jee' money (Guru ki golak ) ???
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yes its possible that because the langar is made through Guru Sahihs golak the langar taste good. In addition, the langar probably taste good because its partly made by AmritDhari Sangat. However, for those treading on the path of Naam its best to avoid Langar unless its Guru Ka Langar ( made by Gursevaks)
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In addition to reasons mentioned by Veer Sukhdeep Singh, another reason could be that despite it being Langar prepared by non-Amritdhari Sangat, it still is a selfless and devotional effort. There is love and devotion and this is what makes it so tasty.

But its not Gobi de Sabzee that is the best but Daal of Maah-Chholay that is famous Langar Daal.

Kulbir Singh
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Have noticed the same thing. dislike the daal mom cooks at home. But love the one cooked at Gurughar.
Maybe, Vahiguroo ji makes it such because those who are going to consume that food have just chanted/listened to naam & gurbani.

Chota veer
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Another reason could be that after langar is prepared, Ardaas before Satguru jee is done and kirpa bheta is done. That shud make the food pious.
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Through Kirpaan Bhet, Guru Sahib does bhog to Degh and if the Langar is prepared by non-Gurmat means, then even if Kirpan Bhet is done, Bhog cannot happen.

Guru Sahib knows better.

Kulbir Singh
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The probable scientific reasons for good taste of langar may be that the foods prepared in big amounts get well distributed heat from the source. That is generally slow per unit amount of food being cooked. And slow cooking is likely to give good results.

Secondly, in case of langar foods; more relative volume of the cooking pan is filled with food. Less vapors are likely to be lost from the food. Taste of the food is retained in the food.

Thirdly, foods cooked in iron pans are nutritious, thus taste good.

Number four, smiling smiley Bigger pieces of Gobhi or Potato (in langar) are likely to retain more nutrients as compared to smaller ones usually done in homes.

No. 5, sometimes, langar food is less spicy as compared to home cooked foods. This also gives better taste.

Finally, one gets fed up with same taste of food at home. A change in "cooking hands" also benefits.

Nevertheless, the reasons given in above posts are also very important. Guru Sahib helps, out of the way.

confused smiley
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Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Through Kirpaan Bhet, Guru Sahib does bhog to Degh
> and if the Langar is prepared by non-Gurmat means,
> then even if Kirpan Bhet is done, Bhog cannot
> happen.
>
> Guru Sahib knows better.
>
> Kulbir Singh


Veer Ji has made an excellent point. If langar is prepared by Non Gurmat means then Bhog/parvaan cannot happen. For example Jhatka, Bhang, Sharaab, food prepared by Veymukhs, etc . How can Bhog happen to such items? You would be surprised that there are people whom have tried to do Kirpan Bhet on the most forbidden items. There has been a Maryada since the inception of Khalsa by breaking this Marayada bhog is not possible. Unfortunately, its often the case when people treat Kirpan Bhet as a mere ritual. Langar/parshaad is not even given to Panj Singhs at first.

The other day I went to the Gurdwara and I decided to not take parshaad after the Ardas. Some family members seemed to be real disturbed by this and said " that is too much" Meaning I am becoming to extreme, haha. Personally I do not feel right accepting Karah Parshaad if it has not been given to five Gursikhs first. Its like eating before ones master which is real rude.
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Sukhdeep Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kulbir Singh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Through Kirpaan Bhet, Guru Sahib does bhog to
> Degh
> > and if the Langar is prepared by non-Gurmat
> means,
> > then even if Kirpan Bhet is done, Bhog cannot
> > happen.
> >
> > Guru Sahib knows better.
> >
> > Kulbir Singh
>
>
> Veer Ji has made an excellent point. If langar is
> prepared by Non Gurmat means then Bhog/parvaan
> cannot happen. For example Jhatka, Bhang, Sharaab,
> food prepared by Veymukhs, etc . How can Bhog
> happen to such items? You would be surprised that
> there are people whom have tried to do Kirpan Bhet
> on the most forbidden items. There has been a
> Maryada since the inception of Khalsa by breaking
> this Marayada bhog is not possible. Unfortunately,
> its often the case when people treat Kirpan Bhet
> as a mere ritual. Langar/parshaad is not even
> given to Panj Singhs at first.
>
> The other day I went to the Gurdwara and I decided
> to not take parshaad after the Ardas. Some family
> members seemed to be real disturbed by this and
> said " that is too much" Meaning I am becoming to
> extreme, haha. Personally I do not feel right
> accepting Karah Parshaad if it has not been given
> to five Gursikhs first. Its like eating before
> ones master which is real rude.


Veer,
I face the same problem. I too dont eat langar or take karah prashad and my family thinks I have become insane.
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Quote

Personally I do not feel right accepting Karah Parshaad if it has not been given to five Gursikhs first. Its like eating before ones master which is real rude.


did they set aside the five portions first? in smaller gurdwaras with less gursikh sangat, it's common to take five portions of prashad into a separate bowl, then mix it back into the larger bowl before distribution to sangat. this happens a lot where i live because sometimes there aren't five amritdharis available to distribute it to.
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Quote
Kulbir Singh
But its not Gobi de Sabzee that is the best but Daal of Maah-Chholay that is famous Langar Daal.

Hanjee, I agree with this lol. Hence the expression in Panjabi, "Ik vaari chakki Guru ghar de daal, moRke doji na lagi svaad"
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ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹ

Veer Ji, Can you please tell us the FULL Maryada of the degh please. Thanks Gursikho

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹ
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Here is a very informative article written by Bhai Kulbir Singh ji earlier on this forum:

[www.gurmatbibek.com]

How to make Degh

Degh in Gurughar is also known as Trihaaval, Panchamrit and Karah Parshaad. The maryada of making Degh is very special. Presented below are some saliant features of making Degh:

Candidate for Preparing Degh

The Sewadaar should be a Tyaar bar Tyaar Amritdhari Gursikh who follows the rehit to the utmost. Following are the saliant features of the Rehit that is a must:

1. Abstains from the 4 Bajjar Kurehits (Cardinal sins) namely eating meat, extramarital sexual relationships (fornication and adultery), use of tobacco and other intoxicants and removal of hair from any part of the body.

2. Strictly keeps the 5 Kakaars on the body at all times.

3. Recites 7 mandatory baanis on daily basis: Siri Japjee Sahib, Siri Jaap Sahib, Siri Tvaiprasaad Svaiyay, Siri Benti Chaupaiee, Siri Anand Sahib in the morning; Siri Rehraas Sahib in evening and Siri Sohila Sahib at bedtime.

4. Gives dasvandh (tenth part of income) as charity to the Khalsa Panth.

5. Keeps Sarbloh Bibek i.e. does not eat from the hands of people who are not amridhari or do not keep the above stated code of conduct including dietary Bibek.


Preparation

1. The Sewadaar planning to make Degh should do Keshi Ishnaan (full body Ishnaan).

2. The Sewadaar should wear Suchay (clean) Khalsaee Bastar (baana, attire). If the sewadaar is a Singh, he should not wear a pajaami. Suchee Pajamee for the Bibi Sewadaar is acceptable.

3. The kitchen area where Degh is to be prepared should be thoroughly cleaned. The counters, stoves, the floor etc all should be cleaned properly.

4. Once the Sudhaayee is done, the area where Degh is to be prepared should be sealed i.e. no outsiders, other than Degh Sewadaars or Langar Sewadaars who keep the same Rehit or Sucham should be present there. Ideally, Degh area should be separate.


Ingredients and Utensil

Ingredients

In Addition to the main ingredient of Naam and Gurbani, following ingredients are necessary for Degh:

1. Whole wheat flour that is stone grind. In Canada the ADM brand is best for Degh.

2. Sugar

3. Gheo (not butter).

4. Water

5. Agni (fire of course)

Quantity of Ingredients

1. Wheat, Sugar and Gheo should be equal in weight (not volume).

2. Water should be 4 times the weight of flour, sugar or gheo. Normally water is not weighed. As an example, if wheat flour was taken as 1 baata, the water should be 4 baatay.

3. Need 2 stoves or chullay - one for flour and gheo and another for water and sugar.


Utensil

1. A Sarblohi Karaahi for Degh.

2. A Sarblohi Pateela for boiling water and sugar.

3. A Sarblohi Kurchna to stir Degh.

4. A Sarblohi kadshee or khurchna to mix sugar and water. It's not a must to have this second khurchna because you can use one Khurchna for both.

5. A large Sarblohi Baata for taking Degh to Maharaj jee's Darbar.

6. A normal Sarblohi Baata for taking out Degh for Punj Pyare and the Granthi Singh.

7) Couple of Sarblohi Baatas - medium size - for distribution, depending on the size of Sangat.


Cooking

1. The sewadaars should cover their mouths with their Hazooria to avoid spitting in Degh.

2. The sewadaars should not utter anything other than Gurmantra or Gurbani. Siri Jap jee Sahib and Siri Anand Sahib are ideal baanis to be read during degh preparation.

3. Pour Gheo in the Sarblohee Karaahee and once it melts, pour wheat flour in it. Keep the heat at slightly higher than medium.

4. Right after pouring the wheat flour and mixing it in gheo, place the pateela with water and sugar on the other stove. The heat should be slightly higher than medium.

5. Continuously stir the flour and gheo with the Sarblohi Khurchna, otherwise the flour at the bottom will burn. It is important to continue to stir this mixture.

6. Let the water and sugar mixture boil and mix the two using the khurchana (if they do not mix automatically).

7) When the colour of the flour changes to Brown and that typical smell of Degh starts coming, pour the boiling water and sugar mixture slowly in the Karaahi containing flour and gheo. Make sure that the flour does not become too dark Brown which would mean the flour has burned. Similarly ensure that the water and sugar mixture is not poured in too early, i.e. when the flour has not turned Brown.

8. Continue to stir the new mixture vigorously.

9. When the Degh stops sticking with the karaahee, you know that the degh is ready. Extinguish the fire at this point and continue to stir the Degh for some time.

Bringing Degh to Maharaj jee's Darbar

1. The table or stand on which the Degh is to rest in Maharaj jee's Darbar should be brought in kitchen and cleaned.

2. The Degh must reach the Darbar before completion of Kirtan.

3. The Degh should be transferred to a Sarblohi Baata (large Baata) before taking it to the Darbar. Gursikhs don't recommend bringing the Karaahee to the Darbar. Degh should be transferred to a large Baata.

4. The Degh should be brought to the Darbar carrying it on or above your head. It is a must that Degh is covered with a cloth (preferrably a White one) and some extra pieces of cloth should be brought to cover other Baatas to be used for distribution of Degh.

5. It is a must that Siri Anand Sahib (at least 6 pauris - 1st 5 and the last one) be read prior to Ardaas, if Degh is to be distributed.

6. The Degh should not be too hot at the time of Bhog, nor it should be too cold. It is best if it is warm at the time of Bhog.

Bhog and Distribution of Degh

1. As per the norm, bhog to Degh is done at the time when the Ardaasiya Sewadaar says "Bhog laavo" or "Parvaan Karo", depending on the maryada of that place. The Sewadaar Singh at that time lifts the cloth slightly and touches through the degh with the clean Suchee Sarblohi Kirpaan.

2. After the Hukamnama, the Sewadaar takes out 5 Gaffay (offerings) of Degh, one for each Punj Pyare and places them in the small Sarblohi Baata. Everytime a Gaffa is taken out, each of the Punj Pyare should be invoked by calling their name (in your mouth i.e. not audibly) starting with Bhai Daya Singh, Bhai Dharam Singh, Bhai Himmat Singh, Bhai Mohkam Singh and Bhai Sahib Singh.

3. The Degh for 5 Pyare should be distributed in Sangat to Tyaar-bar-Tyaar Gursikhs.

4. The Degh for Punj Pyare should be consumed only when it has been distributed to all five Gursikhs. The ones who get the Punj Pyare Degh first should wait for it to be distributed to all 5 Gursikhs, before beginning to consume it.

5. Next the Degh for the Granthi should be taken out, placed in the same Baata as Punj Pyare. The baata is normally placed under the Peera Sahib of Guru Sahib.

6. Next the Degh should be distributed to the Sangat, by one or more Sewadaars, depending on the size of the Sangat.

7. There should be no talking while the Degh is consumed. At many places the Shabad "Gur Pooray meri Raakh layee" is sung while the Degh is distributed.

The above is based on what this Daas has learned from Gursikhs and books of Gursikhs.


How to Bring Degh in Guru Sahib's Darbar - Karaahi Vs Baata

This section has been added few months after the above section was written.

I have long been of the opinion that Degh should be brought to the Darbar of Guru Sahib in a Baata and not in the Karaahi it is cooked in but recently I had a conversation with Master Jaswant Singh of Siri Amritsar Sahib and he mentioned that during the times of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee, Degh was always brought in the Darbar in Karaahi as opposed to a Baata.

He quoted Bhai Surain Singh jee who spent a long time with Bhai Sahib and was his gadvaee (personal assistant) and who was strongly in favour of bringing Degh in Karaahi and not in a Baata. I asked Master jee, what was the opinion of Giani Harbhajan Singh jee Shatrana, who too has done Sangat of Bhai Sahib and Master jee confirmed that Giani jee too is of this opinion.

Master jee gave an interesting quote from Bhai Gurdaas jee’s baani to prove that Degh should be brought in Karaahi. Bhai Gurdaas jee has written that when Pir Dastgir asked Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee to prove that there are Lakhs of worlds as opposed to only 14 levels, Siri Guru jee took his son along and showed him countless worlds, in a matter of split second. On their way back, they attended the end part of a Gurmat Samagam (in some other world) when Degh was being distributed. As a proof, Guru Sahib and the son of Pir Dastgir brought a bowl of Degh from the Karaahi where Degh was kept. The Shabad is as follows:

ਪੁਛੇ ਫਰਿ ਤਕਰਾਰ ਕਰਿ ਏਹ ਫਕੀਰ ਵਡਾ ਅਤਾਈ॥
ਏਥੇ ਵਿਚਿ ਬਗਦਾਦ ਦੇ ਵਡੀ ਕਰਾਮਾਤਿ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ॥
ਪਾਤਾਲਾ ਆਕਾਸ ਲਖ ਓੜਕਿ ਭਾਲੀ ਖਬਰੁ ਸੁਣਾਈ॥
ਫੇਰਿ ਦੁਰਾਇਣ ਦਸਤਗੀਰ ਅਸੀ ਭਿ ਵੇਖਾਂ ਜੋ ਤੁਹਿ ਪਾਈ॥
ਨਾਲਿ ਲੀਤਾ ਬੇਟਾ ਫਰਿ ਦਾ ਅਖੀ ਮੀਟਿ ਗਇਆ ਹਾਵਾਈ॥
ਲਖ ਅਕਾਸ ਪਤਾਲ ਲਖ ਅਖਿ ਫੁਰਕ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਭਿ ਦਿਖਲਾਈ॥
ਭਰਿ ਕਚਕੌਲ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਦਾ ਧੁਰੋ ਪਤਾਲੋ ਲਈ ਕੜਾਈ॥
ਜਾਹਰ ਕਲਾ ਨ ਛਪੈ ਛਪਾਈ ॥36॥


Of special interest is the second-last pankiti which mentions that a bowl (ਕਚਕੌਲ) of Degh was taken from the Karaahi (ਕੜਾਈ॥).

After hanging up, I called Bapu jee (Giani Harbhajan Singh jee) and asked him to confirm if during the times of Bhai Sahib, Degh was always brought in Karaahi as opposed to Baata. He said that it is true that Degh was always brought in Karaahi. Bapu jee narrated an incident where Bhai Sahib and other Singhs did a Samagam at a Sikh regiment. A lot of Fauji Sangat attended the Samagam and Singhs prepared Degh in a very big Karaahi that had 4 handles. After the Degh was prepared, the Faujis asked the Singhs to bring Degh in big Sarblohi drums and Pateelas but Singhs said that they would take Degh in Karaahi only.

In the light of the above stated facts about Degh, we are going to try to follow this Maryada and bring Degh in Karaahi as opposed to Baatay.

Bhul Chuk dee Maafi jee.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh
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GurFateh Veer Ji , But I don't quite understand step 3 & 4 Bhog and Distribution of Degh.. Dass is amritdhari therefore dose that include me ..??

Enlighten me Gursikho..

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹ
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