Parents can be wrong too!

Just yesterday, I came to know about a gursikh bibi who belongs to ramgariya family. She has been seeking rishta for the last 6 years but her family is adamant that the boy shud be ramgariya. They found some ramgariya boys but they also want someone who has his own house and is well settled.
At present, the bibi has turned 32 and she has started to suffer from depression and lives a very lonely life. All her friends are happily married.

Taste of following jaat paat, a bitter one!

I don't think it's exactly parents fault , it also depends on tha Sanjogs of this bibiji's to get pargat

I dont know how the western girls or their parents face this situation (i.e. of not finding a proper match) but for indian girls, it is really a very troubled period of life. Many parents are seen depressed for want of finding a groom for their daughter. (In Gurbani, we also find similar depression or misery related with the JEEV ISTRI, who is in search of GURU HUSBAND.) Education further delays or dims the marriage prospects of girls in Punjab. Lesser the education, earlier the marriage, easier the life. That holds good for girls in Punjab. I do not discourage their education. But I simply report my observation.

Sometimes parents are reluctant to allow the girl for "Amrit Chhakk" or have a "Dastaar"; as this may decrease the probability of finding a suitable match. Boys are less educated and patit in general. Recently, I have known a situation where a father had to marry her Amritdhari daughter to a Patit. That was very painful for the father.

It is there that "SANJOG" get "PARGAT" at a certain time. But the worries related while waiting for that time, must need be lessened. Sikh society must find ways to undo this stress of waiting for "SANJOG" of their fellow Gursikh brothers or sisters.

ਜਾਤਿ ਕਾ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕਰੀਅਹੁ ਕੋਈ ॥
ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਿੰਦੇ ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥
ਜਾਤਿ ਕਾ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖ ਗਵਾਰਾ ॥
ਇਸੁ ਗਰਬ ਤੇ ਚਲਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵਿਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਚਾਰੇ ਵਰਨ ਆਖੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥
ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਿੰਦ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥
ਮਾਟੀ ਏਕ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥
ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਾਂਡੇ ਘੜੈ ਕੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰਾ ॥੩॥
ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਾ ਆਕਾਰਾ ॥
ਘਟਿ ਵਧਿ ਕੋ ਕਰੈ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥
ਕਹਤੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਕਰਮ ਬੰਧੁ ਹੋਈ ॥
ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੫॥੧॥

This is a very sad situation that even though there are such strong Gurbani Furmaans against Jaat-Paat but still Sikhs are suffering from this ailment.

Sometimes the parents set the standards for the possible groom so high that it is hard to find a candidate that can meet these standards. This results in very vexing situations for the girls. It's not wise to let the marriageable age to past because it reduces the options for marriage.

Guru Sahib kirpa karan.

Kulbir Singh

MB Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
, I have known a situation where
> a father had to marry her Amritdhari daughter to a
> Patit. That was very painful for the father.
>




I remember reading or hearing from someone that Guru Sahib said if you give your daughter to a mona in other words a patit then it is equivalent to giving your daughter to a butcher?

There is a old singh in Model Town, Ludhiana who was given the seva of arranging matrimonials for amritdharis by Pooran Daarjee, I go to their house everyday for santhiya and got this information from them.
This is not just one case. That singh told me that this is the problem with majority of families especially from jatt and ramgariya families.
They set such high standards. They want someone from same caste, someone rich, own house, property and land, well educated, well paid job, tall, good looking, can get immigration abroad, etc....
Nobody gives a damm whether the person is a naam abhiyasi, rehitvaan, akhand paathi, kirtaniyaaa.... Its all ABOUT MAYA.

Welcome to Kaliyug.......

brings to mind bhai rama singh jee's vision of khalsa raaj, where gursikhs of all races marry together and eventually caste and race simply disappear...

same caste, someone rich, own house, property and land, well educated, well paid job, tall, good looking, can get immigration abroad
*thumbs up in Kaljug*

naam abhiyasi, rehitvaan, akhand paathi, kirtaniyaaa
who cares these days...rather, how many care

brings to mind bhai rama singh jee's vision of khalsa raaj, where gursikhs of all races marry together and eventually caste and race simply disappear...
maybe within the next half a dozen centuries or so...in view of today's situation...and i sincerely pray i am wrong

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mehtab veerjee
maybe within the next half a dozen centuries or so...in view of today's situation...and i sincerely pray i am wrong

we can all do our part to ignore such social barriers with our own children.

everyone complains about this, but people continue it generation after generation. it only takes one or two generations to marry their kids outside of caste/etc for it to disappear.
my kids will have no caste to pass on to their children. if we can manage to raise our kids right, this stuff has to disappear. but everyone has to do their part.

it only takes one or two generations to marry their kids outside of caste/etc for it to disappear.
Bhenji 1 generation is enough if the parent is willing to do it. The question is, how many are?

my kids will have no caste to pass on to their children.
lets hope so ...all the best!!

if we can manage to raise our kids right, this stuff has to disappear.
i hope, wish and pray it does

but everyone has to do their part.
question is how many will.

Let me throw the question to the Gurmukhs who post on this forum, those who have kids. Can even 1 of them say today with full confidence that he/she promises to marry his/her kids outside the so-called "caste" he/she is born into? You know what the answer will be bhenji? The answer will be "Mehtab Singh we are not antarjami to know the future of our kids. Maybe its in their karam to marry a Gurmukh from the same caste". So there you go bhenji, that should answer your "willingness to do their part" question

Will somebody, tell us the harms of ignoring caste system during marriage? I know some benefits.

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Can even 1 of them say today with full confidence that he/she promises to marry his/her kids outside the so-called "caste" he/she is born into?

i can!

oh wait, i wasn't born into a caste, i guess i have an unfair advantage.

Best times as per Bhai Rama Singh when each Khalsa child has the blood of all the four varans or castes.

Although daas does not belives in the caste system but just wanted to show example of our own family about how to bring the change in mindset

Daas' parents were married inter caste:

Father (Ramdasia (Julaaha)) + Mother (Jatt)

So daas has blood of 2 varans in the body

Then Daas was married in to a Khatri family.

So our kids now have blood of three.

There is only one missing.

Daas sometimes jokes that we now have Jatt, Khatri and Ramdasia and the only one more we need is to bring in a Ramgarhia to complete the mix. Hope by the time our kids are of the marrying age, Singhs in Jatha who still consider themselves Ramgarhia will stop worrying about marrying in the caste.

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Let me throw the question to the Gurmukhs who post on this forum, those who have kids. Can even 1 of them say today with full confidence that he/she promises to marry his/her kids outside the so-called "caste" he/she is born into?

The Hukam is to not consider Jaat-Paat before getting married. If we deliberately try to find matches outside of our old Jaats, then too we would be guilty of considering Jaat Paat. What should be done is not bring up the issue of Jaat Paat at all when getting married. We have been involved in several marriages in the last many years and by Guru Sahib's kirpa the Jaat Paat of the potential candidates was not considered or inquired at all.

I believe, Jaat Paat is already being considered less and less in India as compared to olden days. In the coming future, it is more likely that people will be getting less and less rigid about castes.

Kulbir Singh

Bhai Kulbir Singh ji, I never thought of it that way. You are absolutely right. Finding someone of another caste is ALSO abiding by the vicious caste system in a different (opposite) way.

Thanks for clarifying.

Bhai Kulbir Singh Jeeo

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Thanks for your last post. It clarified the concept much better. Daas will now make sure that we do not specifically look for any caste (inside or outside) for our children

Daas is very sure that jaat paat was never discussed by our families when daas got married, but the issue was one way or other brought up by the relatives on both sides even when parents were not even willing to discuss this. So although intention was never to discuss it, it ended up being mentioned.

Its taking time for families to agree to not bring up the issues of caste during marriage. Daas wonders how long it will take for this identification of caste with a family being lost among gursikhs.

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Daas wonders how long it will take for this identification of caste with a family being lost among gursikhs.

a big part of this is giving up caste names... i was really shocked when i found out how many jatha singhs/singhnia use their caste names for identification. guru sahib gave us the gifts of singh and kaur for our names. we should abandon old names that denote caste and use these with pride after amrit. legal name changes are very simple in the west, usually only filling a few forms and standing before a judge will suffice.