Question regarding viakaran (Grammer)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

In the following Pankti's of Gurbani, Guru Sahib talks about ਪੰਡਿਤ, ਧਰਮੀ, ਜਤੀ etc.

ਲਬੁਪਾਪੁਦੁਇਰਾਜਾਮਹਤਾਕੂੜੁਹੋਆਸਿਕਦਾਰੁ॥ਕਾਮੁਨੇਬੁਸਦਿਪੁਛੀਐਬਹਿਬਹਿਕਰੇਬੀਚਾਰੁ॥ ਅੰਧੀਰਯਤਿਗਿਆਨਵਿਹੂਣੀਭਾਹਿਭਰੇਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ॥ਗਿਆਨੀਨਚਹਿਵਾਜੇਵਾਵਹਿਰੂਪਕਰਹਿਸੀਗਾਰੁ॥
ਊਚੇਕੂਕਹਿਵਾਦਾਗਾਵਹਿਜੋਧਾਕਾਵੀਚਾਰੁ॥ਮੂਰਖਪੰਡਿਤਹਿਕਮਤਿਹੁਜਤਿਸੰਜੈਕਰਹਿਪਿਆਰੁ॥
ਧਰਮੀਧਰਮੁਕਰਹਿਗਾਵਾਵਹਿਮੰਗਹਿਮੋਖਦੁਆਰੁ॥ਜਤੀਸਦਾਵਹਿਜੁਗਤਿਨਜਾਣਹਿਛਡਿਬਹਹਿਘਰਬਾਰੁ॥
ਸਭੁਕੋਪੂਰਾਆਪੇਹੋਵੈਘਟਿਨਕੋਈਆਖੈ॥ਪਤਿਪਰਵਾਣਾਪਿਛੈਪਾਈਐਤਾਨਾਨਕਤੋਲਿਆਜਾਪੈ॥2॥

Now when reading this, do we consider ਜਤੀ as a plural for all the Jati(S) or do we consider them to be singular?

If we consider them to represent the whole group (Group of Jatis as an example), then we would have to use the appropriate bindian while reading thier actions.

Eg: ਜਤੀਸਦਾਵਹਿਜੁਗਤਿਨਜਾਣਹਿਛਡਿਬਹਹਿਘਰਬਾਰੁ॥ In this case, if the above argument is true, would we have bindian for ਸਦਾਵਹਿ, ਜਾਣਹਿ and ਬਹਹਿ?

Could someone please help me with the right use of viakaran in this case and in general for all such cases?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Tejasv jeeo,

Quote

Now when reading this, do we consider ਜਤੀ as a plural for all the Jati(S) or do we consider them to be singular?

If we consider them to represent the whole group (Group of Jatis as an example), then we would have to use the appropriate bindian while reading thier actions.

Eg: ਜਤੀਸਦਾਵਹਿਜੁਗਤਿਨਜਾਣਹਿਛਡਿਬਹਹਿਘਰਬਾਰੁ॥ In this case, if the above argument is true, would we have bindian for ਸਦਾਵਹਿ, ਜਾਣਹਿ and ਬਹਹਿ?

The presence of plural verbs like ਸਦਾਵਹਿ, ਜਾਣਹਿ and ਬਹਹਿ prove beyond doubt that the doer of these verbs i.e. the noun ਜਤੀ is a plural noun. These verbs should be pronounced with nasal sound on the sihaari at their end.

Other nouns like ਗਿਆਨੀ, ਮੂਰਖ ਪੰਡਿਤ, ਧਰਮੀ too are plural nouns because the verbs associated with them are plural - ਨਚਹਿ, ਕਰਹਿ, ਗਾਵਾਵਹਿ ਮੰਗਹਿ. These verbs should be pronounced with nasal sound on the sihaari at their end. If these verbs had been ਨਚੈ, ਕਰੈ, ਗਵਾਵੈ ਅਤੇ ਮੰਗੈ, then we would have known that these nouns are singular. Also in such case, the spellings of ਪੰਡਿਤ would have been ਪੰਡਿਤੁ (aunkad ending). The spellings of ਗਿਆਨੀ, ਧਰਮੀ and ਜਤੀ would have stayed unchanged.

Baani is Agam Agaadh Bodh. No one can can claim to know this ultimate truth in perfection.

Kulbir Singh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Kulbir Singh Jee , thank you very much for your help with this.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Also, one more question in relation to this point. As you have mentioned, ਨਚਹਿ, ਕਰਹਿ, ਗਾਵਾਵਹਿ, ਮੰਗਹਿ are plural verbs are thus need to be
pronounced with a nasal sound. Does this mean that all verbs ending in ਹਿ are plural and thus need to be pronounced with a nasal
sound? Could you please explain when this rule is applicable, I mean if at all there are any exceptions to it?.

Thanks

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Tejasv jeeo,

Quote

Also, one more question in relation to this point. As you have mentioned, ਨਚਹਿ, ਕਰਹਿ, ਗਾਵਾਵਹਿ, ਮੰਗਹਿ are plural verbs are thus need to be
pronounced with a nasal sound. Does this mean that all verbs ending in ਹਿ are plural and thus need to be pronounced with a nasal
sound? Could you please explain when this rule is applicable, I mean if at all there are any exceptions to it?.

The ਹਿ ending verbs (not nouns) are almost always pronounced nasal but there are minor exceptions. Sometimes because of the rhyming principle some singular verbs are are ending with ਹਿ but this is very rare. I can't think of any example at this time.

Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tejasv jeeo,
>
>
>
> Also, one more question in relation to this point.
> As you have mentioned, ਨਚਹਿ, ਕਰਹਿ,
> ਗਾਵਾਵਹਿ, ਮੰਗਹਿ are plural
> verbs are thus need to be
> pronounced with a nasal sound. Does this mean that
> all verbs ending in ਹਿ are plural and thus
> need to be pronounced with a nasal
> sound? Could you please explain when this rule is
> applicable, I mean if at all there are any
> exceptions to it?.
>
>
> The ਹਿ ending verbs (not nouns) are almost
> always pronounced nasal but there are minor
> exceptions. Sometimes because of the rhyming
> principle some singular verbs are are ending with
> ਹਿ but this is very rare. I can't think of
> any example at this time.
>
> Kulbir Singh


Bhai Sahib I noticed that in many Rehatnamas the Gurmantar is writtern as Waah Guru without the sihari in Waah. Is WaaheGuru two words. Whenever written as one word there is a Sihari, but when written as two words there is no Sihari. Why is this the case.
Even if Waah was not a verb would the Sihari be pronuced if it was two words . I remember reading on another forum in which there was mention that Bhai Randhir Singh Ji mentioned Sihari must be pronounced. But in Prem Sumarg Rehatnama there is mention of reciting Waah Guru which it appers Gurmantar is two words. Vaah/Waahis a very difficult word to understand. I dont know whether it could be classified as a noun, adjective, verb,etc. Even though Santhiya of Gurmantar can only be given by Panj Pyaarey plese do shed some light on the implied meaning of Gurmantar and if it is one word or two words.
Thanks

it's even written two different ways in gurbani... ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ and ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ . the way it's been explained to me is that ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ is gurmantar, god. while ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ is vah! (wonderful) guru, an exclamation in praise of guru sahib.

of course, i could very well be wrong.

Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee has written on this subject as follows:

“ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ” ਅਤੇ “ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ” ਤੋਂ ਇਕੋ ਹੀ ਭਾਵ ਹੈ। ਕਿਤੇ ਹਾਹਾ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਹੈ। ਕਿਤੇ ਹਾਹੇ ਨੂੰ ਸਿਹਾਰੀ ਲਗੀ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਵਿਚ ਕੋਈ ਫਰਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦਾ। “ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ” ਅਤੇ “ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ” ਪਦ ਮੁਰੱਕਬੀ ਬਣਤਰ (ਇਕੱਠੀ ਬਿਉਂਤ) ਵਿਚਿ ਅੰਕਤ ਕੀਤੇ ਗਏ ਹਨ। “ਵਾਹਿ” ਯਾ “ਵਾਹ” ਅਤੇ “ਗੁਰੂ” ਨੁੰ ਛੋਦਕ ਬਣਤਰ ਵਿਚ ਲਿਖਣਾ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਰਥੀ ਅਰਥੱਈਆਂ ਦੀ ਹੀ ਕਾਢ ਹੈ। ਵਾਸਤਵ ਵਿਚ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੋਹਾਂ ਪਦਾਂ ਦੀ ਪਦ ਛੇਦਕ ਲਿਖਤ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨੂੰ ਮਨਜ਼ੂਰ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ। “ਵਾਹੁ” ਪਦ ਹਾਹੇ ਔਂਕੁੜ ਨਾਲਿ ਤਾਂ ਨਿਖੜਵਾਂ ਹੀ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ “ਗੁਰੂ” ਜਾਂ “ਗੁਰ” ਪਦ ਨਾਲਿ ਕਦੇ ਜੁੜ ਕੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਇਆ।

“ਵਾਹੁਗੁਰ” ਜੁੜਵੇਂ ਪਦ ਦੀ ਸਹੇੜ ਮਨਮਤੀ ਸਹੇੜੂਆਂ ਦੀ ਮਨਘੜਤ ਮਨਮਤਿ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਉਕੀ ਹੀ ਪਰਵਾਨ ਨਹੀਂ।

ਹਾਹੇ ਔਂਕੁੜ ਵਾਲੇ “ਵਾਹੁ” ਪਦ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ “ਧਨੁ” ਹੈ। ਸਿਹਾਰੀ ਵਾਲੇ ਹਾਹੇ ਜਾਂ ਹਾਹੇ ਮੁਕਤੇ ਸਹਿਤ ਆਏ “ਵਾਹਿ” ਜਾਂ “ਵਾਹ” ਪਦ (ਜੋ ਕਦੇ ਨਿਖੜਵੇਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਉਂਦੇ) ਦਾ ਅਰਥ “ਬਿਸਮਾਦ” ਰੂਪ ਦੇ ਹਨ।

Basically what Bhai Sahib is saying is that “ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ” and “ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ” mean the same and in this case “ਵਾਹਿ" and "ਗੁਰੂ” or “ਵਾਹ" and "ਗੁਰੂ” are not separated from each other while "ਵਾਹੁ" and "ਗੁਰੂ" are never joined i.e. are always separate words.

The meaning of ਵਾਹੁ ਗੁਰ is that Guru noo Dhan hai i.e. it is saying that Guru is Dhan. On the other hand, “ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ” or “ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ” mean the same and “ਵਾਹਿ" or “ਵਾਹ" represent Vismaad (don't know English for this word, the closest are Wonderful, or Awesome).

As Veer Sukhdeep Singh has pointed out, in olden rehitnamas and writings we find both “ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ” and “ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ” as Gurmantra. And now from Bhai Sahib's writing it seems like both are acceptable in Gurmat and they mean the same. Of course the more prevalent one is “ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ” and this is what most of us Japp.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee has written on this
> subject as follows:
>
> “ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ” ਅਤੇ
> “ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ” ਤੋਂ ਇਕੋ
> ਹੀ ਭਾਵ ਹੈ। ਕਿਤੇ
> ਹਾਹਾ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਹੈ।
> ਕਿਤੇ ਹਾਹੇ ਨੂੰ
> ਸਿਹਾਰੀ ਲਗੀ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ।
> ਇਸ ਵਿਚ ਕੋਈ ਫਰਕ ਨਹੀਂ
> ਪੈਂਦਾ। “ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ”
> ਅਤੇ “ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ” ਪਦ
> ਮੁਰੱਕਬੀ ਬਣਤਰ
> (ਇਕੱਠੀ ਬਿਉਂਤ) ਵਿਚਿ
> ਅੰਕਤ ਕੀਤੇ ਗਏ ਹਨ।
> “ਵਾਹਿ” ਯਾ “ਵਾਹ”
> ਅਤੇ “ਗੁਰੂ” ਨੁੰ
> ਛੋਦਕ ਬਣਤਰ ਵਿਚ
> ਲਿਖਣਾ ਸ਼ਬਦਾਰਥੀ
> ਅਰਥੱਈਆਂ ਦੀ ਹੀ ਕਾਢ
> ਹੈ। ਵਾਸਤਵ ਵਿਚ
> ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੋਹਾਂ ਪਦਾਂ
> ਦੀ ਪਦ ਛੇਦਕ ਲਿਖਤ
> ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਨੂੰ ਮਨਜ਼ੂਰ
> ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ। “ਵਾਹੁ” ਪਦ
> ਹਾਹੇ ਔਂਕੁੜ ਨਾਲਿ
> ਤਾਂ ਨਿਖੜਵਾਂ ਹੀ
> ਆਉਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ
> ਅੰਦਰਿ “ਗੁਰੂ” ਜਾਂ
> “ਗੁਰ” ਪਦ ਨਾਲਿ ਕਦੇ
> ਜੁੜ ਕੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਇਆ।
>
> “ਵਾਹੁਗੁਰ” ਜੁੜਵੇਂ
> ਪਦ ਦੀ ਸਹੇੜ ਮਨਮਤੀ
> ਸਹੇੜੂਆਂ ਦੀ ਮਨਘੜਤ
> ਮਨਮਤਿ ਹੈ। ਗੁਰਮਤਿ
> ਅੰਦਰਿ ਉਕੀ ਹੀ ਪਰਵਾਨ
> ਨਹੀਂ।
>
> ਹਾਹੇ ਔਂਕੁੜ ਵਾਲੇ
> “ਵਾਹੁ” ਪਦ ਦਾ ਅਰਥ
> “ਧਨੁ” ਹੈ। ਸਿਹਾਰੀ
> ਵਾਲੇ ਹਾਹੇ ਜਾਂ ਹਾਹੇ
> ਮੁਕਤੇ ਸਹਿਤ ਆਏ
> “ਵਾਹਿ” ਜਾਂ “ਵਾਹ”
> ਪਦ (ਜੋ ਕਦੇ ਨਿਖੜਵੇਂ
> ਨਹੀਂ ਆਉਂਦੇ) ਦਾ ਅਰਥ
> “ਬਿਸਮਾਦ” ਰੂਪ ਦੇ
> ਹਨ।
>
> Basically what Bhai Sahib is saying is that
> “ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ” and
> “ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ” mean the same and in
> this case “ਵਾਹਿ" and "ਗੁਰੂ”
> or “ਵਾਹ" and "ਗੁਰੂ” are not
> separated from each other while "ਵਾਹੁ" and
> "ਗੁਰੂ" are never joined i.e. are always
> separate words.
>
> The meaning of ਵਾਹੁ ਗੁਰ is that
> Guru noo Dhan hai i.e. it is saying that Guru is
> Dhan. On the other hand,
> “ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ” or
> “ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ” mean the same and
> “ਵਾਹਿ" or “ਵਾਹ" represent
> Vismaad (don't know English for this word, the
> closest are Wonderful, or Awesome).
>
> As Veer Sukhdeep Singh has pointed out, in olden
> rehitnamas and writings we find both
> “ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ” and
> “ਵਾਹਗੁਰੂ” as Gurmantra. And now
> from Bhai Sahib's writing it seems like both are
> acceptable in Gurmat and they mean the same. Of
> course the more prevalent one is
> “ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ” and this is what
> most of us Japp.
>
> Daas,
> Kulbir Singh


Thanks for the feedback.

What are the different meanings when Guru is spelled with an aunkad or Sihari?

1) The word ਗੁਰੁ mostly means noun in Karta Karak (Nominative Case) as is evident from the following pankitis:

ਗੁਰੁ ਸਰੁ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਬੋਹਿਥੋ ਗੁਰੁ ਤੀਰਥੁ ਦਰੀਆਉ ॥
(The Guru is the Boat to carry me across the world-ocean; the Guru is the Sacred Shrine of Pilgrimage, the Guru is the Holy River.)


2) The word ਗੁਰਿ also is used in nominative case and the sihaari of this word gives the meaning of ਨੇ most of the times:

ਅੰਧ ਕੂਪ ਮਹਾ ਘੋਰ ਤੇ ਬਾਹ ਪਕਰਿ ਗੁਰਿ ਕਾਢਿ ਲੀਏ ॥2॥
(The pulled me out holding my arm, for the deep and dark well.

ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ॥
(The perfect Guru implanted Vaheguru Naam in me)


3) When this word is a mukta i.e. ਗੁਰ it is a noun in Sambandh Karak (Genitive Case):

ਪਿਰੁ ਰੀਸਾਲੂ ਤਾ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਾ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਣੀ ॥2॥
(Vaheguru Pir Rasaloo is met when one hears the Shabad of Guru)

ਨਾਨਕ ਬੇੜੀ ਸਚ ਕੀ ਤਰੀਐ ਗੁਰ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥
(It is the boat of truth; swim through the Vichaar of Guru)

4) When this word is a mukta i.e. ਗੁਰ it is also a noun in Sampradaan Karak (Dative Case):

ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲੀਐ ਸੰਕ ਉਤਾਰਿ ॥
(Know the inside; meet the Guru, removing all doubts)

Kulbir Singh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee, a few more questions regarding viakaran:

1. ਤੂ sometimes is with-out the Tippee and elsewhere it is with the Tippee, ਤੂੰ. Where the tippe is there, we say it. But what about ਤੂ, where
there is no Tippee. When would we say this with a Tippee and where would it just be pronounced as just ਤੂ ?
Could you please answer the same query for ਤਾ, ਤਾਂ?
Maybe there are other such words with would require the same viakaran rule. (Could you please list them? if any)

2. This question is an extension of the earlier conversation regarding verbs ending in ਹਿ
An example: ਜੋ ਤੂ ਦੇਹਿ ਸੁ ਕਹਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਮੈ ਮੂਰਖ ਕਹਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥1॥
What about the verbs ending in ਹਿ but whose karta/doer is the Lord, as in the above case. so would it be without a nasal sound or not?
Could you please explain the above? There are other such pankitis also.

3. The ਹਿ ending verbs (not nouns) are almost always pronounced nasal but there are minor exceptions.
Could you please list atleast one such example, so that it becomes more clear?

4. Regarding pronouns wrt the Lord.
Example: ਪ੍ਰਭਕੀਉਸਤਤਿਕਰਹੁਦਿਨੁਰਾਤਿ॥
ਤਿਸਹਿਧਿਆਵਹੁਸਾਸਿਗਿਰਾਸਿ॥
Would ਤਿਸਹਿ be pronounced nasal and why/why not?

Could you please explain the above?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Tejasv jeeo,

Wonderful questions that ignite a healthy vichaar and prompt your mind to think about Gurbani.

Quote

1. ਤੂ sometimes is with-out the Tippee and elsewhere it is with the Tippee, ਤੂੰ. Where the tippe is there, we say it. But what about ਤੂ, where
there is no Tippee. When would we say this with a Tippee and where would it just be pronounced as just ਤੂ ?
Could you please answer the same query for ਤਾ, ਤਾਂ?
Maybe there are other such words with would require the same viakaran rule. (Could you please list them? if any)

As far as correctness is concerned, I believe both ਤੂ and ਤੂੰ are correct. ਤੂੰ is a Punjabi word while ਤੂ is a Hindi/Urdu word. Both mean the same and the sound of the tippee here does not increase or decrease the poetic maatra i.e. the poetic metre. People with different accents naturally pronounce them as per their accents. The ideal thing here is to pronounce the tipee where it is and not pronounce it where it is not.

According to Talwara jee ਤਾ is a pronoun (meaning "that") and should be pronounced without the nasal sound where as ਤਾਂ seems to be an adverb that is mostly in response to ਜਾਂ just as ਜਦੋਂ and ਤਦੋਂ are used together.

Stay tuned for detailed analysis of this shortly.

Quote

2. This question is an extension of the earlier conversation regarding verbs ending in ਹਿ
An example: ਜੋ ਤੂ ਦੇਹਿ ਸੁ ਕਹਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਮੈ ਮੂਰਖ ਕਹਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥1॥
What about the verbs ending in ਹਿ but whose karta/doer is the Lord, as in the above case. so would it be without a nasal sound or not?
Could you please explain the above? There are other such pankitis also.

Here the doer of ਦੇਹਿ is being addressed i.e. is in second person. For this reason the sound of such verbs is nasal in the end. Another Gurbani example I can quickly think of is:

ਤੁਧੁ ਆਪੇ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਵਰਤੈ ਜੀ ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਕਰਹਿ ਸੁ ਹੋਈ ॥

Here ਕਰਹਿ is a verb similar to ਦੇਹਿ i.e. the doer of both verbs is being addressed. So the sound is nasal.

If Guru Sahib wills, this daas will do a detailed listing of verbs where nasal sound is pronounced.

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3. The ਹਿ ending verbs (not nouns) are almost always pronounced nasal but there are minor exceptions.
Could you please list atleast one such example, so that it becomes more clear?

I thought of this but can't think of any example. There are very very few such cases and that too could be typos. Maaf Karna jee.

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4. Regarding pronouns wrt the Lord.
Example: ਪ੍ਰਭਕੀਉਸਤਤਿਕਰਹੁਦਿਨੁਰਾਤਿ॥
ਤਿਸਹਿਧਿਆਵਹੁਸਾਸਿਗਿਰਾਸਿ॥
Would ਤਿਸਹਿ be pronounced nasal and why/why not?

The word ਤਿਸਹਿ is not a verb but a pronoun meaning ਤਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ and is not pronounced as nasal. This word is the short form of ਤਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ and there is no need or reason to pronounce it nasal.


Bhul chuk dee maafi jee.

Kulbir Singh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Thank you very much for the clarifications.

A couple of more questions have risen in my mind, in relation to the above:

1. ਤਿਸਹਿ is a pronoun and should not be pronounced as nasal, as you mentioned. Does this mean that each and every pronoun should
be pronounced non-nasal? Or are there exceptions. The reason I ask this will be clear in the next few lines.

2. ਤਿਨ/ਤਿਸ and ਜਿਸ/ਜਿਨ. Now what is the difference between ਜਿਸ and ਜਿਨ. The reason I ask this is because they have been both used
in the following pankitis and as a result I get confused wrt the use of nasal sounds (Where to pronounce nasal and where not to). Same is the case with ਤਿਨ/ਤਿਸ

ਜਿਨਪ੍ਰਭੁਜਾਤਾਸੁਸੋਭਾਵੰਤ॥
ਸਗਲਸੰਸਾਰੁਉਧਰੈਤਿਨਮੰਤ॥
ਪ੍ਰਭਕੇਸੇਵਕਸਗਲਉਧਾਰਨ॥
ਪ੍ਰਭਕੇਸੇਵਕਦੂਖਬਿਸਾਰਨ॥
ਆਪੇਮੇਲਿਲਏਕਿਰਪਾਲ॥
ਗੁਰਕਾਸਬਦੁਜਪਿਭਏਨਿਹਾਲ॥
ਉਨਕੀਸੇਵਾਸੋਈਲਾਗੈ॥
ਜਿਸਨੋਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਕਰਹਿਬਡਭਾਗੈ॥
ਨਾਮੁਜਪਤਪਾਵਹਿਬਿਸ੍ਰਾਮੁ॥
ਨਾਨਕਤਿਨਪੁਰਖਕਉਊਤਮਕਰਿਮਾਨੁ॥7॥

3. Also, many times the verbs used wrt HIM end with ਹਿ (sorry don't have an example right now). Now would be still pronounce these
verbs are nasal. Or is this the case of the doer being addressed in second person, as you have already explained above?

Could you please him me with these queries?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Tejasv jeeo,

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1. ਤਿਸਹਿ is a pronoun and should not be pronounced as nasal, as you mentioned. Does this mean that each and every pronoun should
be pronounced non-nasal? Or are there exceptions. The reason I ask this will be clear in the next few lines.

As per my meagre understanding the pronouns e.g. ਤਿਸਹਿ, ਜਿਸਹਿ, ਕਿਸਹਿ, ਤਿਨਹਿ, ਜਿਨਹਿ, ਕਿਨਹਿ etc. are pronounced without the nasal sound. For the most part only the ਹਿ ending on the verbs are pronounced. This daas will post a detailed listing of such verbs soon on this site.

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Now what is the difference between ਜਿਸ and ਜਿਨ.

ਜਿਸ is pronoun for singular noun while ਜਿਨ is for plural noun. More about pronouns to come in a separate post.

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. Also, many times the verbs used wrt HIM end with ਹਿ (sorry don't have an example right now). Now would be still pronounce these
verbs are nasal. Or is this the case of the doer being addressed in second person, as you have already explained above?

A detailed account of this is in work-in-progress. For now you can note that pretty much all verbs ending with ਹਿ should have nasal sound.

Kulbir Singh

Is SatGur or SatGuru two words or one word. I remember I asked a question about Sat Nam and Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji mentioned it is two words. He stated "my humble opinion is that the ਸਤਿ is a noun which means one who possesses Truth. From Sihaari we derive the meaning 'Vaala', and the meaning is "Sat waala".

DOes this also apply to SatGuru meaning Guru who is possessor of Truth? Or is Satguru a title and regarded as one word?

Sukhdeep Singh jeeo,

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Is SatGur or SatGuru two words or one word. I remember I asked a question about Sat Nam and Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji mentioned it is two words. He stated "my humble opinion is that the ਸਤਿ is a noun which means one who possesses Truth. From Sihaari we derive the meaning 'Vaala', and the meaning is "Sat waala".

DOes this also apply to SatGuru meaning Guru who is possessor of Truth? Or is Satguru a title and regarded as one word?

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ, ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਜਾਂ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ are compound words and the meaning of this word is 'The true Guru'. There are many such compound words that are formed by joining two words. In this case ਸਤਿ is the adjective of the noun ਗੁਰੁ. Other examples of such compound words are ਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ, ਰਾਮਨਾਮ etc.

Kulbir Singh

I was wondering can a sihari serve as a verb since verb can mean action or state of mind ( is, was, are,etc)

For example the following pangti

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣਹਿ ਤਾਂ ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਉ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥
gur parasaadhee eaeko jaanehi thaa(n) dhoojaa bhaao n hoee ||
By Guru's Grace, know the One; then, you shall not love any other.

ਮਨਿ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਆਈ ਵਜੀ ਵਧਾਈ ਤਾ ਹੋਆ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥
man saa(n)th aaee vajee vadhhaaee thaa hoaa paravaan ||
Peace comes to the mind, and gladness resounds; then, you shall be acclaimed.

Is it possible that Guru Ji is saying by obeying the Hukum of not loving anyone else but WaaheGuru the mind is in peace. The mind has a sihari so is it possible the sihari indicates a verb( state of mind not action verb) not a preposition?

In the following I meant to say does man shaa(n)th refer to the mind is at peace. Instead of saying in peace,because in would indicate its a preposition not verb ( state of being, not physical action). So I Guru Ji saying by following his Hukum all the following occurs mind is at peace, happiness vibrates, and you become panch.

Veer Sukhdeep Singh jeeo,

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ਮਨਿ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਆਈ ਵਜੀ ਵਧਾਈ ਤਾ ਹੋਆ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥
man saa(n)th aaee vajee vadhhaaee thaa hoaa paravaan ||
Peace comes to the mind, and gladness resounds; then, you shall be acclaimed.

Is it possible that Guru Ji is saying by obeying the Hukum of not loving anyone else but WaaheGuru the mind is in peace. The mind has a sihari so is it possible the sihari indicates a verb( state of mind not action verb) not a preposition?

The meaning is very straightforward. Peace has come to reside in mind. The sihaari of ਮਨਿ gives the meaning of "in" or ਵਿਚ. The verb ਆਈ is for ਸਾਂਤਿ and this is why this verb is feminine gender. If you read ਸਾਂਤਿ ਆਈ , you would ask ਕਿਥੇ ਆਈ (Where has it arrived). The answer is ਮਨ ਵਿਚ. Since ਵਿਚ is not present there, the sihaari of ਮਨਿ is giving the meaning of ਵਿਚ.

Kulbir Singh

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In the following I meant to say does man shaa(n)th refer to the mind is at peace.

This meaning would have been possible if the word ਮਨਿ had been spelled as ਮਨੁ and then the meaning would have been ਮਨੁ ਸ਼ਾਂਤਿ ਹੈ but the meaning in this pankiti is that ਮਨ ਵਿਚ ਸ਼ਾਂਤੀ ਹੈ i.e. peace resides in mind; hence the word ਮਨਿ has a sihaari in the end.

Kulbir Singh

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Veer Sukhdeep Singh jeeo,
>
>
> ਮਨਿ ਸਾਂਤਿ ਆਈ ਵਜੀ
> ਵਧਾਈ ਤਾ ਹੋਆ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ
> ॥
> man saa(n)th aaee vajee vadhhaaee thaa hoaa
> paravaan ||
> Peace comes to the mind, and gladness resounds;
> then, you shall be acclaimed.
>
> Is it possible that Guru Ji is saying by obeying
> the Hukum of not loving anyone else but WaaheGuru
> the mind is in peace. The mind has a sihari so is
> it possible the sihari indicates a verb( state of
> mind not action verb) not a preposition?
>
>
> The meaning is very straightforward. Peace has
> come to reside in mind. The sihaari of ਮਨਿ
> gives the meaning of "in" or ਵਿਚ. The verb
> ਆਈ is for ਸਾਂਤਿ and this is why
> this verb is feminine gender. If you read
> ਸਾਂਤਿ ਆਈ , you would ask
> ਕਿਥੇ ਆਈ (Where has it arrived). The
> answer is ਮਨ ਵਿਚ. Since ਵਿਚ is not
> present there, the sihaari of ਮਨਿ is giving
> the meaning of ਵਿਚ.
>
> Kulbir Singh


thanks for the explanation veer ji

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh


Bhai Kulbir Singh Jee,
Based on the above thread related to using nasal sound with plural verbs, I have a few queries. Basically I am not able to figure out whether they are verbs or nouns and so whether their sound needs to nasal or not.

Please see the following:
ਪਉੜੀ॥

ਤਿਥੈਤੂਸਮਰਥੁਜਿਥੈਕੋਇਨਾਹਿ॥
ਓਥੈਤੇਰੀਰਖਅਗਨੀਉਦਰਮਾਹਿ॥
ਸੁਣਿਕੈਜਮਕੇਦੂਤਨਾਇਤੇਰੈਛਡਿਜਾਹਿ॥
ਭਉਜਲੁਬਿਖਮੁਅਸਗਾਹੁਗੁਰਸਬਦੀਪਾਰਿਪਾਹਿ॥
ਜਿਨਕਉਲਗੀਪਿਆਸਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁਸੇਇਖਾਹਿ॥
ਕਲਿਮਹਿਏਹੋਪੁੰਨੁਗੁਣਗੋਵਿੰਦਗਾਹਿ॥
ਸਭਸੈਨੋਕਿਰਪਾਲੁਸਮ੍‍ਾਲੇਸਾਹਿਸਾਹਿ॥
ਬਿਰਥਾਕੋਇਨਜਾਇਜਿਆਵੈਤੁਧੁਆਹਿ॥9॥

I was able to figure out pangti 3 to 8 have a plural verb in the end from the sihari attached.
But what about ਨਾਹਿ and ਮਾਹਿ.
1. Are these verbs that too plural.
2. If not, do we pronounce them with nasal sound or not? and why so?

Also is there a rule to such words ਨਾਹਿ and ਮਾਹਿ (maybe others too), which can be generalized. I mean, based on the answers to the
above two questions, do we always pronounce them that way or are there exceptions to the rule.

Thank you for your help.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Also is there a rule to such words ਨਾਹਿ and ਮਾਹਿ

ਨਾਹਿ and ਮਾਹਿ are both pronounced with nasal sound in the middle. ਮਾਹਿ is not a Verb but a Preposition and ਨਾਹਿ seems like an Adverb here.

Kulbir Singh