Tragedy of losing symbols with technology

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

The recent post by Kulbir Singh Veer Ji, regarding "Riddle of Flour and Muddy Water" has prompted me to share this idea. Gurbani uses many and many physical symbols and ideas from daily life of pre-industrial era to make us understand deeper mystical thoughts. These are many. But with technology advancing fast, many have already disappeared from our daily life. And related with the disappearence of these symbols is the losing of convenience, easiness, sweetness of understanding Gurbani.

Had somebody walked with flour on his/her on a muddy path and got the chance lucky "accident" of spilling that flour in the mud; the meanings, of Gurbani Pankiti; have been drastically different for him/her.

Similarly, one can never understand, the physical labor envolved in grinding " Swa Mann Wet Grains" with a manual grinding mill; who had never seen a CHAKI.

Those of us, who are born with technology in their mouth, are missing a lot of sweetness of our old culture. (That could be a different topic.)

------------------------

There is a grave need, to preserve such symbols; may be physically or on digital media at least.

Please share your thoughts.

This is a very genuine point raised by Bhai MB Singh jee. The cultural and technological changes that have occurred in the last 30 years are more than the changes that occurred in the previous 1000 years. In Gurbani Guru Sahib has used many metaphors and analogies related to agriculture, irrigation and other day to day tasks but the generation today finds it hard to understand them because they have no practical experience with it. The ploughing of fields in olden days, before the tractors arrived, was done with oxen. The fields were watered by "tinda wale khoo (well)". The process of extracting sugarcane juice using oxen is now outdated. Same way the Ox was used by ones who extract oil from mustard seeds and one who has not seen the hardwork that the ox has to do can never understand the following Pankiti properly:

ਓਹੁ ਤੇਲੀ ਸੰਦਾ ਬਲਦੁ ਕਰਿ ਨਿਤ ਭਲਕੇ ਉਠਿ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਜੋਇਆ ॥

One of the worst life-form one can get is that of "ਤੇਲੀ ਸੰਦਾ ਬਲਦੁ" This Ox works in horrible conditions, in a dark room, outrageous hours a day. Otherwise too the life-form of a ਬਲਦੁ in olden days was pretty bad. Now the life-form of ਬਲਦੁ is limited to slaughterhouses.

Kulbir Singh

people are doing a surprisingly good job at preserving a lot of these symbols in books, paintings, etc. i didn't have any idea of punjabi culture for most of my life... but i still understand the symbols behind these shabads because i've read about them in books, seen them in pictures, even seen them in villages today.

so yes, it's essential to preserve them, but i think there's already a lot of people working to do that, we just have to keep in their footsteps. and as the new tech comes, don't throw out the old, keep it someplace where people can see it. museum? school? even on a gurdwara grounds a room can be made for preserving such things. you'll see a lot of "old tech" preserved in america in town halls or even just people's farms. people love to have ties to their past.

I have had a very weird thought while reading Bhai Sahb Kulbir Singh jee's post...

Quote
Kulbir Singh
Otherwise too the life-form of a ਬਲਦੁ in olden days was pretty bad. Now the life-form of ਬਲਦੁ is limited to slaughterhouses.

Throughout time, the treatment of some jeev has changed dramatically. Just like Bhai Sahb has noted, in olden days a ਬਲਦੁ was treated poorly, but now they are just slaughtered. Another example could even be as drastic as the race of black people in the west. In olden days, blacks were slaves, and now they can become presidents of a nation.

It is if some jeev, some sorts of people, have committed better or worse karmic actions and now they are repenting or being rewarded for it. As a whole species, can karmic actions alter future generations?? I have always thought each soul pays for its own actions, but now this is an interesting dubidha that I see. Has Guru Sahib jee explained this change somewhere?

Please forgive me if this is too off topic and a stupid way of thinking..

Bhagatjot Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have had a very weird thought while reading Bhai
> Sahb Kulbir Singh jee's post...
>
>
> Otherwise too the life-form of a ਬਲਦੁ in
> olden days was pretty bad. Now the life-form of
> ਬਲਦੁ is limited to slaughterhouses.
>
>
> Throughout time, the treatment of some jeev has
> changed dramatically. Just like Bhai Sahb has
> noted, in olden days a ਬਲਦੁ was treated
> poorly, but now they are just slaughtered. Another
> example could even be as drastic as the race of
> black people in the west. In olden days, blacks
> were slaves, and now they can become presidents of
> a nation.
>
> It is if some jeev, some sorts of people, have
> committed better or worse karmic actions and now
> they are repenting or being rewarded for it. As a
> whole species, can karmic actions alter future
> generations?? I have always thought each soul pays
> for its own actions, but now this is an
> interesting dubidha that I see. Has Guru Sahib jee
> explained this change somewhere?
>
> Please forgive me if this is too off topic and a
> stupid way of thinking..



No offense but I think this is "Hindu Thinking" and its the way Hitler used to think.

Akal Purakh does not put a group of people in
a certain race and then reward or punish them accordingly. IF this is true, then how would this work in
Sikhi which is full of people from various races?

Each panth strives according to their devotion to Akal Purakh .

Quote

Otherwise too the life-form of a ਬਲਦੁ in olden days was pretty bad. Now the life-form of ਬਲਦੁ is limited to slaughterhouses.

to be fair, i think th is comparison is crossing cultural lines.

in india, bulls are still worked to death. while in the west, they've always been a food animal. the fact that sikhs have crossed cultures doesn't change the fate off the animal.

Quote

in india, bulls are still worked to death. while in the west, they've always been a food animal. the fact that sikhs have crossed cultures doesn't change the fate off the animal

The use of oxen in India has been reduced greatly. With the advent of machinery and tractors, oxen are rarely used for agriculture purposes now, at least not in Punjab and Haryana. But in other parts of India, they are still used but in the coming years, it seems like their use will be very limited.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

but isn't it still illegal to kill them?

I agree with 1kaur bhenji in that alot of these symbols have been preserved well in many ways. I don't think we need to worry about the impact of gurbani being lost by the loss of symbols. I'm a person that's been raised in a way that I have a very poor connection to my punjabi roots. I don't have a full understanding of gurbani. But if I sit and read gurbani, or listen to gurbani, without trying so hard to understand it ... and if I just let it flow over me and through me, I still feel a powerful vibe coming from my Guru's shabad.

We sometimes worry too much... I know that gurbani is perfect, and if Guru Ji intends for a person to feel that sweetness you are talking about, then they will, regardless of how they've been raised, or what kind of society they live in, or what kind of lifestyle they've been exposed to, or how well they "understand" it. After all, gurbani is personal, and every person will feel Guru's message in their own way.

I agree that perhaps the oxen does not serve the same purpose it did many generations ago. But I remember when I went to Punjab in 2006 many people in the Pinds still use animals like the OXEN and Water Buffalo for many domestic reasons . For example they get milk, and butter from these animals. Poor farmers use animals to plough the field. They also use the feces of these animals for gas and as an Air conditioner; by putting the feces on the top of the roof, the house becomes less hot. These animals have contributed much to the economy of Punjab, but personally I think its better to use machines over animals for farming. Because machines can do much more then Animals. If farmers get to spend less time in the farm then they will have more time for Naam Abhyiaas, seva etc.

If people in Punjab do not catch up to technology the same way other states have perhaps they cant compete in the economy and survive.

Quote

but isn't it still illegal to kill them?

Not one hundred percent. They are slaughtered in India. Cow slaughter is baned all over India except Kerala and W Bengal but ox-slaughter may not be banned.

Kulbir Singh

Thank you Bhai MB Singh jio for starting this discussion. An intersting fact to note is whilst our elders worked manually ie. churning butter, grinding flour, farming with their own hands, they were much healthier. I believe some of technology has become a disease and left us unaware of the greatness of the old ways.

This discussion has been great and there is no doubt that these old methods mentioned in gurbani need to be known for us to understand these methods mentioned in gurbani to explain to us. Old is gold!

could the sangat state some old ways of doing things, which are related to gurbanee
simple life is better especially in Punjab

making butter and lassi the old way, as it relates to gurmat...


ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਬਿਲੋਵਨਾ ਬਿਲੋਵਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ॥
Churn the churn of the Lord, O my Siblings of Destiny.

ਸਹਜਿ ਬਿਲੋਵਹੁ ਜੈਸੇ ਤਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Churn it steadily, so that the essence, the butter, may not be lost. ||1||Pause||

ਤਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਟੁਕੀ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਲੋਈ ॥
Make your body the churning jar, and use the stick of your mind to churn it.

ਇਸੁ ਮਟੁਕੀ ਮਹਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੰਜੋਈ ॥੨॥
Gather the curds of the Word of the Shabad. ||2||

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਬਿਲੋਵਨਾ ਮਨ ਕਾ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ॥
The churning of the Lord is to reflect upon Him within your mind.

ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ਪਾਵੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਧਾਰਾ ॥੩॥
By Guru's Grace, the Ambrosial Nectar flows into us. ||3||

Bhein ji, has shown an excellant example. Now, in this case, my young child need to see MATKI, to understand Gurbani Pankiti beautifully. Otherwise her mother uses Electric Mixer for the purpose. And there is no button of SEHAJ on the mixer.

As sk Bheinji has expressed to us; I agree with her. Gurbani is for every age and every body. Those who love it, will try to understand the meanings and the metaphors used if any. Gurbani has the potential power to self explanation. But, what I have wished in my starting message, should be out of love for Gurbani. If we have talent and time; we should go for such projects. These will be interesting and useful.

(I remember a small joke here. A college teacher in a city in Punjab was carrying many plants and weeds with him to his class. "What for?" He says, I need to show these to my students. I am teaching them Poetry of Shiv Kumar these days and students have never seen the plants he speaks about in his poems)

I wish to direct a video , at least; (if not a live big museum); where in, every such metaphor of Gurbani is picturized and the Gurbani Pankiti is explained. Imagine; the movie starts, with a persian wheel well working on a farm and one can hear the sound of TOOOOOO TOOOOOO and Gurbani Shabad is being sung HAR-HATT BHI TOOO TOO KARE.

I have many silly dreams.

Quote

I wish to direct a video , at least; (if not a live big museum); where in, every such metaphor of Gurbani is picturized and the Gurbani Pankiti is explained. Imagine; the movie starts, with a persian wheel well working on a farm and one can hear the sound of TOOOOOO TOOOOOO and Gurbani Shabad is being sung HAR-HATT BHI TOOO TOO KARE.

Bhai Sahib jee, please fulfill this dream as soon as possible. Since this has come to your mind, why not work on executing it? A video is more feasible to do as compared to a live museum. Give us this Khush Khabri soon.

Kulbir Singh

Bhai Sahib Ji

The same thought came to the mind of Daas as well. Infact daas thought at a slighly lower scale of putting together a power point presentation with pictures reflecting these symbols. But your idea of a video is more novel.

Let us know when you plan to commission the project. Daas can also help with this project. This can be an excellent source for coming generations to relate to the gurbani in a better way.

The first step towards that will be to have a Sehaj Path and come out with the Shabads having metaphors; systematically.

The second will be to discuss each Shabad with feasible possible different video explanations.

Third will be to start the work.

And I know, nothing, beyond the first two steps.