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1984 compared to the puratan history of shaheeds

Posted by JaspreetSingh 
WaheGuruJiKaKhalsa ll WaheGuruJiKiFateh ll

sadh sangat ji, i think the image about 1984 is being misintrepreted.

first of to start with, the nagar keertans.

ive seen these trailors that have pictures of people crying/wailing asking why did this happen.

our great shaheeds such as baba banda singh bahadur(bhai Gurbakhsh Singh Jee) bhai mani singh jee bhai sati das bhai mati das bhai deyala jee and many other great shaheeds didnt even shed a tear neither did they wail or cry they just accepted it as guru da bhana

whereas compared to 1984, these people whose family members were burnt alive, raped asked for justice its as if they put religion last or didnt even think about it and all they cared about was their life and the life of their family members.

GROSS!!!

baba banda singh jee bahadur had his own son killed and his liver taken and put into his mouth...did bhai sahib cry/wail? did he convert into islam? the answer is no to both of these questions!!

dhan dhan shiri guru gobind singh sahib jee maharaj saw his sahibzadey getting shaheed in the battlefield...did he get all angry? did he cry/wail? the answer is no to both of these questions!!


its as if these victims had no effect that there was an attack on Shiri Harmander Sahib and Akal Takht Sahib, but all they cared about was their pariwar(family)..does gursikhi come last?

why do we waste our time fighting for them? have these victims come into sikhi? NO!!!

they were just normal everyday punjabis who couldnt do anything for themselves

tell me where in history did a mughal even dare to touch a sikh woman?

and here u had such a coward race (the hindus) raping so called "sikh" women

mughals were scared of singhs and hindus had no name

and here we have hindus attacking so called "sikhs" and killing them, looting them, burning their homes, attacking gurudwares!!!

what we need to do is educate people about the attack on harmandir sahib and akal takht sahib and why exactly did the government did this and also talk about the vaisakhi of 1978

yea there were some who were actually amritdhari and were brutally beaten for being sikh killed even those we can talk about but these aam everyday normal punjabis who dont care a single bit about sikhi... why are we wasting our time and life for them?

WaheGuruJiKaKhalsa ll WaheGuruJiKiFateh ll
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yea there were some who were actually amritdhari and were brutally beaten for being sikh killed even those we can talk about but these aam everyday normal punjabis who dont care a single bit about sikhi... why are we wasting our time and life for them?

They were assaulted, raped and killed because the rioters thought that they were Sikhs. Many of them were Keshadhaari and many were also Amritdhari. I would say that even if they were not Sikhs, we should still fight for their cause because they were wronged. As a Khalsa it is our duty to stand up for the oppressed, no matter who they are; these victims were Guru-Nanak-Naam-Leva (if not Amritdharis).

Sher Khan the Nawab of Malerkotla just did one favour to Sikhs - he refused to avenge the death of his brother by killing Sahibzaadas. Sikhs did not forget this gestures to this day. In 1947 whole of Eastern Punjab was vacated of Muslims with the exception of Malerkotla. Any Muslim who entered the boundary of Malerkotla was safe. Sikhs are not a nation of unthankful people. These people who died in the name of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee (because they believed in Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee), are our own people.

It's a humble benti, Kirpa karo, Daya karo, Taras karo and don't leave them alone. Panth has held their arm and will not leave their arm ever. This is the Birad of our Panth.

Kulbir Singh
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I agree with Veer Ji that its Khalsas duty to help anyone regardless of their religion,and Im disturbed by the following statement

"and here u had such a coward race (the hindus) raping so called "sikh" women"

Its unfair to refer to Hindus as a coward race. Lets not forget many of our Hindu Brothers were brave enough to house the SInghs during 1984 riots knowing that if they were caught it would lead to their death.

Those people who raped women were not practicing Hindus anyway. I have many Hindus and they seem to be peace loving people. I disagree with their theology but I still appreciate many of the things they and their religion have to offer.
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We cant do what Guru Gobind Singh ji or Banda Singh Bhadur could do. We dont have that much of BHAGTI Power to HOLD tears if we see our son being killed in front of us. I dont think there is anything bad in showing those posters - atleast it keeps us aware what all happened. If we forget and let it go , they will do it again. We must make sure that this is kept ALIVE until its apolosized.

why do we waste our time fighting for them? have these victims come into sikhi? NO!!!

Veerji, SIKH doesnt only fight for SIKHs. Never does it mean that we should only save a SIKH and if the victim is not SIKH we should let it go. In Guru Ji's time too SINGHs saved many Mughal BIBIs and left them to their places with respect.

For sure we shouldnt see HINDUs with NAFRAT , we all know it was all politics driven. There were only very few brains behind all this.


Bhul Chuk Maaf !!

Bhul Chuk Maaf !!
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This Daas wrote the following writeup, a few years ago:

There was a time couple of hundred years ago when it was unthinkable that a Sikh bibi could ever get caught by tyrants. Sikh bibiyaan were skilled in martial arts and always gave their lives fighting instead of getting caught and getting raped afterwards.

Then came 1947. Sikh women now were not capable of fighting back but honour was still more precious to them than their lives. They never could imagine even getting touched by a man other than their husband, let alone getting raped by someone. Since they could not fight back, they did Jauhar. What is Jauhar? Jauhar is an ancient Rajput tradition whereby Rajput women used to kill themselves rather than getting raped by Muslim tyrants. The legend of women of Chittor is famous to this day. In 1947 our countless Sikh sisters did jauhar and killed themselves like Bibi Lajwanti Kaur of this story above ( [www.gurmatbibek.com] ). These women had the spirit but were not physically capable of protecting their honour; so they sacrificed their lives. Many sisters and daughters were killed by their own fathers and brothers, to save them from leading a life-long hell in brothels. Some Sikhs women were carried away by tyrants and raped and then left in brothels to live the lives of prostitutes.

Finally in 1984 the unthinkable happened. Our sisters, daughters and mothers got raped. We Sikhs had gone so much away from Sikhi that such a calamity befell upon us. I personally think that its better to die than lose your honour. In my opinion, raping a woman is worse than killing her. Our women were raped. Men were burned by putting tires around their heads. Nothing happened. No significant fight back. Why? This is the question we need to answer.

I am of the firm opinion that we can do million clevernesses and we can do draw million strategies but until and unless we adopt the basic principles of Sikhi, we will not get anywhere. Guru Sahib will never help us if we don't keep rehit, and do amritvela abhyaas. We will continue to get chhitters (juttiyaan) from everyone. Now Bhaiyaas are giving us chhitters in Punjab.

Who can touch a Shasterdhaari Sikh bibi in full Gurmukhi Baana with a dastaara on her head? Who can touch a Sikh Bibi who keeps Sarbloh Bibek? Guru Sahib blesses his Khalsa with full Tej (power) when his Khalsa keeps full rehit including Dastaara, Sarbloh Bibek.

There are internet tigers who have nothing better to do than oppose the Taksaali (authentic) Sikh rehits of Khalsa like Sarbloh Bibek and Dastaar for both men and women. These internet tigers are themselves going to drown in this world and will cause many others to drown. It was the geniussness of Siri Guru Gobind Singh jee Maharaaj that He blessed us with Sarbloh Bibek. With Sarbloh Bibek in action, we can never assimilate in any other quom. Khalsa must stay niyaara (unique). Khalsa must never assimilate.

The biggest protection against assimilation is Sarbloh Bibek and the biggest bond of Khalsa is this rehit. Roti and Beti dee saanjh is what determines our socialization. If we keep roti dee saanjh only with Khalsa, all our other socializations stop and we become one strong force that can never assimilate. So Khalsa jee let us adopt the basic rehits before doing anything else. Guru Sahib will help us only if we obey his hukams and keep rehit.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh
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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Would we say the same to the Sikhs at the time of Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib's Shaheedi, when no Sikh was vocal in the Ninth Patshah's Shaheedi? Would we paint those Sikhs with the same brush, who despite 9 Patshahis training them to be Sant Siphais and the Shaheedi of the Fifth Patshahi, remained silent? Sikhs were not unfamiliar with arms and battle (Sixth Patashah onwards). What shall we consider them?

Gurmukho, with all due respect, how many of us were present in India during 1984? If you had witnessed what was going on, perhaps a bit more sympathy and understanding or the circumstances would be prevalent. This was not the Mughals, where we knew who our enemy was and fought them openly. This was the very government and people that the Sikhs had fought for and defended, thinking they were kin. They lived together in neighborhoods, only to see those same people you would call Uncle and Auntie come for your blood! They were lulled into a false sleep of comfort, deluded into thinking they were brothers with their Hindu compatriots. 1978 was a pinch to a sleeping lion (the Panth as a whole still did not realize the large and deliberate anti-Sikh position of the government) and 1984 was a swift kick to the stomach to the lion that finally woke it from its deep sleep. That's reality.

Sikhs did put up fights in 1984. Massive numbers of Sikhs left the Indian army and marched towards Harimandir Sahib, but were prevented from getting there. Punjab was under curfew and the Sikhs caught off guard - how many Sikhs in Amrisar would have LMG, automatic weapons or anything for that matter to counter an army? Again, this was due to their sleep and not listeining to Guru Sahib's bachan of being Shastardhari - Shastardhari does not imply only swords and arrows - guns, grenades, RPGs, armored vehicles and the like would be more appropriate in this day and age for a modern Khalsa. How many of us are equipped as such? This is the Indian army we are speaking of - highly trained killing machines and humans whose sole purpose was the destruction of the opponent. People were shot on site in the streets, helicopters were overhead and tanks actively bombarding the Harimandir Sahib. Speaking of what could have/should have occured now, two decades + later is not appropriate.

Or shall we speak of the November 1984 times, where the common Sikh, unaware of a government planned second genocide, was attacked by its own neighbors, politicians and police? Where the first targets were Gurudwaras to prevent their being a meeting center for the Sikhs (because had the Sikhs actually begun to gather there, I assure you that the November 1984 genocide would have become the battle of 1984 - read on some of the instances where Sikhs, even in small numbers, were able to gather in Gurudwaras and fought off huge Hindu mobs)? Where any two or three Sikhs meeting in the streets were told to go home by the police and they would keep "shanti" - which turned out to mean the police would watch where the Sikhs lived and then targeted those homes for looting, raping, and murdering? Where the Sikhs that did fight were made the first targets and arrested/shot on sight?

Daas was a mere child in Delhi during 1984, but his family was present for the whole unfolding - none of us were Gursikhs at the time. We were near Trilokpuri, the hardest hit area. Yes, we hid from house to house in kind Hindu neighbors. The attack happened so fast that every Sikh family was scattered and either hiding or butchered. Very few Sikhs probably even saw another Sikh in those three days. Fact is that there was not a majority of Amritdhari Gursikhs in Delhi and they were caught completely off guard. Even then, some fought back and were made Shaheed. Fact is that even after the three days of butchering, my father recalled that the Sikhs grafittied on a neighborhood wall, "Khalsa Eo Nahi Marayaa Jaogaa" - that the Khalsa will not be killed off by these means.

Yes, some Sehajdhari devotees (and even some Gursikhs) wailed and cried. Question yourself: If someone came and murdered your father in front of you with a tire around his neck, raped your mother in front of you, tortured your younger brother or sister and you were made to watch this whole scene and lived to see it, would you be in Chardi-Kalaa or crying and wailing, or not be burning for revenge (remember, the ideal of a Gursikh is to remain internally stable even in this horror to exact justice, not revenge - Guru Arjun Dev Sahib laid down this concept)? Granted, there are Gurmukhs on this forum that would be in Chardi-Kalaa and remain unattached to their family's passing, but Daas knows how weak he is and is sure there are others like him in this world that would either be emotionally destroyed or burning in the fire of krodh to the point of self destruction. Do Ardaas for this poor soul and others who became emotonally involved from the events. Daas is one of those lowly creatures that when they do Ardaas of how the mothers saw theyr children speared, chopped up and tortured in Mir Mannu's time becomes unsettled and yet becomes proud of his ancestors. Perhaps Guru Sahib will grant this gift one day...

Now, the Sikhs were not asleep any longer and did wake up and fought - from 1984 to 1995 (and even to the present day, though it has turned away from the open armed conflict). Sikhs controlled parts of Punjab. Sikhs outwardly knew that the government was out to exterminate them and were awakened to this new reality. They fought, achieved some justice by removing the perpetrators from this plane of existence. To this day, I do not believe that even Indian Sikhs trust the Indian government - at least that change has finally occured.

Granted, every Sikh should be ever ready, and the Sikhs were ever asleep and ignored warnings like those of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa to have a revolver and be ready to fight, but I would say it is sooo easy to say these things sitting here in foreign countries and with the events as history, which we can analyze with full detail now, a luxury not available when the events were unfolding in 1984. Try saying these things in India and being in the shoes of the Sikhs of India. We live in relative comfort of a good justice system abroad - wear Banaa in India and you run a higher risk of being picked up and made to disappear. That is a different reality than the one most of us live in. Even the recent news bears witness to this continued trend:

[sikhsangat.org]

Gurmukho, sorry for the long post. I know the above does not represent the ideals of the Khalsa, but it is what happened. Please do not victimize the victims of 1984 yet again by speaking ill of them - do Ardaas for them and the Panth to be in everlasting Chardi-Kalaa. At the same time, let's learn from it and remain aware of what had happened and prepare for the future.
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i understnd your emotions ms514. its easy to talk but difficult to endure. we should be afraid lest we are put to test by wahiguru.
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I've read all the post on this topic, i humbly say, who are we to do comparisons of shaheeds of 84 and puratan vela?
We should make our jeevan Ochee Suchee Like those shaheeds and then with Guru Sahibs Kirpa he will bless us with Virtue and that will develop Character like those Gurmukhs. The key thing is Naam which is enable this.

Daya, Compassion is a great gun for a Sikh to have, all those innocent people who suffered in Delhi should not be talked about in such ways. Sikhs are Par-Upkaar and help anyone regardless of any differences. Whether Hindu, Muslim, Black, White, Green etc.

Bentee to Bhai Jaspreet Singh to read more about 1984 onwards you will be shocked the brutal tactics deployed against Sikhs.And please make more of constructive post which will bring ChardeeKaala not Negative outputs.

please read the following jeevanee jeeo




Shaheed Baba Jang Singh was born in village Mahel Kala in 1937, into the house of Sardar Bishan Singh & Mata Harnam Kaur. In 1950 Baba Ishar Singh Ji (Nanaksar) visited this village for a keertan smagam, Baba Jang Singh was very impressed by the divan and left for Nanaksar with Baba Ishar Singh Ji. At Nanaksar Baba Jang Singh performed his duties with utmost respect and dedication.

In 1961 Baba Ishar Singh Ji visited Delhi for a smagam and on his return stopped at Karnal; here the sangat requested Baba Ji to construct a Gurdwara for the sangat (congregation). This task was started by Baba Sadhu Singh in 1963, after Baba Ishar Singh Ji had passed away. In 1972 the Gurdwara building was complete and thousands of devotees came to visit the Gurdwara and seek blessings of Guru Sahib. In 1981 on request of the sangat, the foundation stone was laid for a langar hall in dedication to Mata Sahib Deva on the GT Road bypass at Karnal, where 24 hours langar was served to the devotees. Baba Jang Singh Ji was at the forefront of this seva.

From the very first day Baba Jang Singh Ji entered Nanaksar till his last breath Baba Ji was ever immersed in Naam Simran and seva of Guru Ji’s sangat. There are very few individuals who are blessed with attributes of spiritual and physical power and strength, Baba Ji was one of them.

Inevitably one who takes birth has to leave the earth one day, but some deaths are such in which eternal existence is hidden. These deaths are granted to the brave individuals who surrender there lives for truth and justice. Baba Ji fell into this category, he could not stand the injustices and atrocities carried out upon innocent Sikhs. Baba Ji fought against these oppressors head on.

The Dharam Yudh Morcha led by Sant Jarnail Singh alongside the Shiromani Akali Dal had become the talk of the whole nation and a headache for the Indian Government. During the Morcha a bus full of captive Singh’s was taken to a railway platform at Tarn Taran and collided with an oncoming train, in which 34 Singh’s attained Shaheedi. This new wave of atrocity deeply touched the hearts and minds of the entire Sikh community and it became apparent to that the Singh’s were deliberately massacred by the government.

Floods of sangat from many different areas began to emerge to pay their respects for the Shaheed Singhs. The sangat gathered at Amritsar and set off towards Delhi to let the tyrant leaders at Delhi know that there voices cannot be silenced.

The first night the sangat stopped at Fategarh Sahib and second night at Mata Sahib Deva langar hall in Karnal. After performing his langar seva duties Baba Jang Singh also joined the sangat in their march to Delhi.

Upon reaching the parliament, the sangat was fired upon on, Baba Jang Singh marched towards the front and a hail of bullets riddled his body.

Baba Jang Singh Ji’s final rites were performed by Baba Sadhu Singh (Nanaksar) on the 23rd of October 1982, many Sikh personalities came to pay there respects. Even till this day thousands of devotees visit Karnal Gurdwara Sahib where talk of Baba Ji’s sacrifice and seva is ongoing.
Article taken from Sikh Shahadat magazine.
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i recently read "when a tree shook delhi", and was amazed at the stories of heroics of small bands of Singhs who held off hundreds of angry thugs with only swords and waheguru's kirpa. they saved families, gurdwaras, only to be arrested by the very police who should have protected them.

don't talk about weeping and wailing... see the selfless actions of our brothers and sisters who gave their lives to save our gurdwaras, our families.

everyone talks about the past as though it was so great, the present so good... if the past was so great, how did such holocaust happen that millions of sikhs died? how did harimandir sahib get desecrated and taken over by bamans? how did our great armies get defeated? how did the british take punjab? why did our singhnia stop wearing dastaara so they could hide their identity from mughals?

in every generation there are great singhs, but for every great singh there are millions of ordinary sikhs, without that avastha, without that bir ras, without amrit vela, bibek, naam... who are simply not ready to become heroes or martyrs.

let's give respect to the gurmukh heroes and martyrs and role-models of today, rather than crying about how great the past was. let's do more prachar, encourage sikh youth, treat our brothers and sisters with pyaar so they may become inspired, rather than insulting them and writing them off.

sorry if my words sound harsh. but i cannot stand to see my brothers and sisters being insulted.
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*"present so BAD"

sorry for my mistake.
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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Sorry to post again. But a first hand account of a Bibi who was present for both June 1984 and November 1984 does exist:

[roadtokhalistan.blogspot.com]

Warning: Some of the language is explicit as it was directly recorded in her diary after the events that transpired and maintains the mental state of the Bibi at the time.

Guru Kirpa Kare.
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I agree with Bhein 1kaur jee. Crying about the past only brings dhaindee--kalaa. This world is a TAMASHA. Sometimes, there is peace, sometimes there is war, sometimes sikhs get stronger, sometimes weak, sometimes Naam becomes strong and sometimes Maya. If Wahguru jee wants, He can send souls like Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh again to this earth.
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WaheGuruJiKaKhalsa ll WaheGuruJiKiFateh ll

I agree with bhai sahib kulbir Singh jee that "Taras karo" Khalsa shud defend others BUT when we support sumones ego or attachment I think it's wrong these ppl I don't think have any dard or sympathy for the panth but all they want us do is have justice for their deadfamily members I know it's wrong what happened that normal everyday ppl without any reason were massacred
no we can't compare ourself or anyone else with guru gobindsingh jee mahaaraaj bababanda Singh jee bahadur and other singhs of that time BUT history is there to learn something from it so we can try I know wecant but try to live with guru sahib kirpa thejeevan they did our Sikh mothers in the past had their babies thrown in the air and be hung on spears their bodies wecut into pieces necklaces made out of them and be worn aroundtheir necks still they did not cry they didn't ask for any "justice" oh our Kids were killed and here it's been 25 years and still "justice" look how much they are trapped in this moh
Maya and we're supporting that? how about the attack on harminder sahib an akal takht sahib? Did these ppl ever talk about that ? Ask for justice for that? that's all they care about their pariwar they have no concern for sikhi

WaheGuruJiKaKhalsa ll WaheGuruJiKiFateh ll
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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

JaspreetSingh Bhai Sahib, I think I would recommend reading up on the Sikh Shaheeds of the 1978/1984 + times. You will find Sikh Shaheeds that lived up to the reputation of Puratan Shaheeds. Nobody will equal the Guru Sahiban, but when 40 or so Sikhs fight the might of the Indian army (which estimated that storming the Harimandir Sahib and clean-up would take 6 hours, with the Sikhs coming out with their arms raised, but went on ferociously for 3 days and then some) with brute force vastly outnumbered and outgunned. Take the story of Shaheed Kulwant Singh Babbar, who took a bullet to the head and when asked how he was, responded "Chardi Kalaa!".

[www.panthic.org]

Or Shaheed Gurdev Singh Debu, who was boiled alive, in the same tradition of Shaheed by Dyal Daas:

[www.panthic.org]

There are plenty of Sikhs who upheld the tradition of the Puratan Sikhs and will continue to do so. To speak otherwise is Dhendi-Kalaa, as our history is still being made and will continue to be made. I would urge that you do a thorough reading of the 1984 times and the Sikh Shaheeds that wrote another golden chapter of history in their blood. The public image is of the weeping and wailing is apparent, but there are plenty of untold stories of Chardi-Kalaa and hardcore determination in the face of an entire nation attacking it. If Sikhs literally controlled parts of Punjab, that means it was not just from Sikhs weeping and wailing to get what they want. There are not just Sikhs who have been emboldened from 1984. People like Cynthia Keppley Mehmood, who wrote Fighting for Faith and Nation, also put her account of how she was raped by the Indian government goons and yet, still when speaking, speaks of Khalistan directly in her speeches as the future of the Sikhs, not some far off concept. Speak to the elders who were there in 1984 and after - they will tell you stories that mirror the Puratan times.
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Guru Teg Bahadar Sahib, in Delhi, sacrificed for the religious freedom of others. Similarly, Singhs were always ready to sacrifice their lives; for the honor of hindu women. How come, that we are not going to highlight the unjustice being done with our own people. They were targeted because of their appearence and this appearence is due to the commands of the Guru. So, it was the Guru, who was targeted at; not the humans.

A little sense of modern human peaceful endeavours to achieve a Democratic and Free World, commands that we remember this genocide of recent history and let the others know it.
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sat shiri akal
main samajti hoon ke yah ek humanity ke against bahut bara katleyaam thaa.sikhon ne hamesha julm ke khilaaf avaaj uthai hai.aaj kal cameras hai.photo aa jati hai.pehle aaisa nahin thaa.dard hone par insaan rota to hai hee.so is baaat ko rukhepan se nahin lena chahye
sorry
maria goswamy
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JaspreetSingh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I think it's wrong these ppl I don't think have any dard or sympathy for the panth but all they want us do is have justice for their deadfamily members


Veer Jaspreet Singh : I dont think this line goes with the basic Theory(FOUNDATION) of KHALSA/Sikh Panth. I dont find anywhere that Khalsa teaches us to run awy from our families(SANSARI). If those people are hurt by the DARD of their families - THEN WHAT ? Isnt Khalsa Panth a family. My feeling is that if we cant love our family,it will be difficult to accept the Khalsa Family. Are we sure that none of the families hurt in the 84 were NAAM Leva or PANTH DARDI. For sure they were. We all know that all these people were picked(by the MOBs) on their Looks of SIKHI (so means they were KESHDHARI) , so doesnt a KESHDHARI have DARD for the PANTH ? or isnt he trying to adapt the SIKHISM and part of Khalsa ? We cant expect all BRAHAM Gyanis in this world where you see all with no attachements to their immediate families (SANSARI).

As we know - BHAI KANAHAYIA ji was not only serving the PANTH DARDI people hurt in the war (JUNG), he was carrying his water/first AID for anyone/everyone he found needing help.


Bhul Chuk MAAF !!

Bhul Chuk Maaf !!
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Gurbani tells us that the only person whose weaknesses we should worry about or analyse are our own. And we should do this thoroughly.
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