Who loves more: Satguru or Gursikh?

Who loves more - Guru Sahib or a Gursikh? Everything else held constant, the stakes are high for a Gursikh who is stuck in this terrible ocean and Guru Sahib on the other hand is free. In the beginning stages of spirituality, a Gursikh loves and respects Guru Sahib because he (or she) wants to get emancipated. In the later stages, a Gursikh loves Guru Sahib just for the sake of love. Guru Sahib on the other hand loves His Gursikhs selflessly.

Brahmgyani Gurmukh Bhai Sahib Gurdaas jee in this beautiful Kabit explains through several examples that Guru Sahib loves his Gursikhs more than his Gursikhs love Him:


ਜੈਸੇ ਮਾਤਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਪਾਲਕ ਅਨੇਕ ਸੁਤ
ਅਨਕ ਸੁਤਨ ਪੈ ਨ ਤੈਸੇ ਹੋਇ ਨ ਆਵਈ ॥
ਜੈਸੇ ਮਾਤਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਚਿਤ ਚਾਹਤ ਹੈ ਸੁਤਨ ਕਉ
ਤੈਸੇ ਨ ਸੁਤਨ ਚਿਤ ਚਾਹ ਉਪਜਾਵਈ ॥
ਜੈਸੇ ਮਾਤਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਸੁਤ ਸੁਖ ਦੁਖ ਸੋਗਾਨੰਦ
ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਮੈ ਨ ਤੈਸੇ ਸੁਤ ਠਹਰਾਵਈ ॥
ਜੈਸੇ ਮਨ ਬਚ ਕ੍ਰਮ ਸਿਖਨੁ ਲੁਡਾਵੈ ਗੁਰ
ਤੈਸੇ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਨ ਹਿਤਾਵਈ ॥101॥

1. As, parents nurture and foster many children but all children even combined can't nurture and care for their parents as well as the parents cared for them.

2. As, parents love their children from the depths of their hearts, the children are not able reciprocate their love in the same proportion (as their parents).

3. As parents feel the sorrows, happiness and problems of their children, the children can't feel the sorrows and happiness of their parents in the same proportion (as their parents).

4. Similarly, the way the Guru loves his Sikhs with mind, speech and actions, the Gursikhs can't do sewa of Guru Sahib with similar love.

It is clear from the above Kabit that Guru Sahib loves us immensely. Guru Sahib loves us much more than we love Guru Sahib. For the most part, our love for Guru Sahib is not selfless and is there because we want something in return but what could we give to Guru Sahib? Guru Sahib's love for us is such a selfless love. How much Guru Sahib cares for us and how much effort He does for us, is clear from the following Kabit of Bhai Gurdaas jee:

ਚਰਨ ਸਰਨਿ ਗੁਰ ਏਕ ਪੈਡਾ ਜਾਇ ਚਲ
ਸਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੋਟਿ ਪੈਡਾ ਆਗੇ ਹੋਇ ਲੇਤ ਹੈ ॥
ਏਕ ਬਾਰ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਸਿਮਰਨ ਮਾਤ੍ਰ
ਸਿਮਰਨ ਤਾਹਿ ਬਾਰੰਬਾਰ ਗੁਰ ਹੇਤ ਹੈ ॥
ਭਾਵਨੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਭਾਇ ਕਉਡੀ ਅਗ੍ਰਭਾਗਿ ਰਾਖੈ
ਤਾਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਧਾਨ ਦਾਨ ਦੇਤ ਹੈ ॥
ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਦਇਆ ਨਿਧਿ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਅਗਾਧਿ ਬੋਧਿ
ਨਮੋ ਨਮੋ ਨਮੋ ਨਮੋ ਨੇਤ ਨੇਤ ਨੇਤ ਹੈ ॥111॥

1. O Gursikh, you walk towards Guru Sahib, seeking the refuge of Guru Sahib's Lotus Feet; the Guru in return would walk 10 million steps towards you.

2. O Gursikh, you try to chant the True Naam of the Satguru once; Guru Sahib would enable you to chant the Naam again and again.

3. O Gursikh, with love and faith, go place one Kaudi (paisa, cent) in front of the Guru; Guru Sahib would bestow many treasures on you.

4. Satguru is the treasure of compassion and His greatness is beyond description; Again and again, again and again, bow your head, bow your head to the Guru.

What a great Kabit this is. I love the 2nd point above. At Amritvela, before beginning Abhyaas, call out to Siri Guru Nanak Sahib and beg for Naam. Then begin doing Naam Abhyaas and see how Naam Abhyaas occurs effortlessly. Normally, this kind of Avastha does not come everyday. Blessed is that time, that day, that moment, when Guru Sahib does the Kirpa of Naam on His Gursikh. When Guru Sahib looks at His Gursikh with the eye of grace, right away the Gursikh chants Naam.

Dhan Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee!!

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

Thanks for sharing Bhai Sahib what you said is so true. Guru Sahib does love us much more then we can ever love him.
Hopefully though his kirpa we can invoke more love for Guru Sahib because loving Guru Sahib is the same as loving
Akal Purak.

ਭਾਉ ਭਗਤਿ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਬਾਂਛਤ ਜਮੁ ਨ ਸਾਕੈ ਜੋਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥
ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਆਪਿ ਮੇਲੀ ਤਹ ਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਬਿਛੋਹ ਜੀਉ ॥੬॥



I noticed many people say to love AKal Purakh and not Guru Sahib. They state the following pangti to convince people
ਜੇ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਉਚਰਿ ਹੈ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਿ ਹੈ ॥

I think they are misundestanding the pangti. How can we possilbe love AKal Purakh without Guru Sahib only people who have Ego will try to love AKal Purakh without Guru Sahib . Its like an insect trying to undestand the universe it cant possibly happen. Without Guru Sahib there is no understanding at all . HOw can we even think of AKal Purakh without Guru Sahib such thoughts are unripe/incomplete ( kachi bani)

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I noticed many people say to love AKal Purakh and not Guru Sahib. They state the following pangti to convince people
ਜੇ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਉਚਰਿ ਹੈ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮਹਿ ਪਰਿ ਹੈ ॥
I think they are misundestanding the pangti. How can we possilbe love AKal Purakh without Guru Sahib only people who have Ego will try to love AKal Purakh without Guru Sahib . Its like an insect trying to undestand the universe it cant possibly happen. Without Guru Sahib there is no understanding at all . HOw can we even think of AKal Purakh without Guru Sahib such thoughts are unripe/incomplete ( kachi bani)

When doing Ardaas or when pleading for mercy, there is no difference between Guru Sahib and Vaheguru jee. During Ardaas when we say Sache Patshah, it refers to both Vaheguru jee and Guru Sahib. Ones who have Kirpa, see no difference between Guru Sahib and Vaheguru. Vaheguru is Gurprasaad i.e. can be met only through the true Guru. Ultimately Guru is the Guru-form of Vaheguru and thus Vaheguru Himself.

Kulbir Singh

Thank you Veer Kulbir Singh Ji, for sharing this Kabit. It explains the idea with beautiful examples. The examples itself are very important aspect of life. Children (especially sons) never respond their parents with similar affection. It is wonderful behaviour of nature. We must also note it that Bhai Sahib Gurdaas Ji is talking about sons, not daughters. In translation, should we say it children or sons only? Because,daughters may have much better affection for their parents as compared to sons. We as sons do not love our parents as much as we love our sons or daughters as parents. We may respect our parents, but do not love them.

So, the example very beautifully explains that whatsoever we do as a sikh for the GURU; it can never reach the level the GURU does for his sikhs.
We cannot imagine; how He cares. We cannot word it. Because we never love parents; only parents love us.

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So, the example very beautifully explains that whatsoever we do as a sikh for the GURU; it can never reach the level the GURU does for his sikhs.
We cannot imagine; how He cares. We cannot word it. Because we never love parents; only parents love us.

We do love our parents, it's just that we don't love them as much as they love us. Second thing is that we can have some idea of how much Guru Sahib loves us because many of us are parents. Before becoming a parent, it is hard to imagine how parents love their children, selflessly. The love of the mother is definitely remarkable. Imagine, how great the love of Guru Sahib is for us.

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We must also note it that Bhai Sahib Gurdaas Ji is talking about sons, not daughters. In translation, should we say it children or sons only?

Good eye! I too was going to write "sons" instead of "children" but then I thought that Bhai Gurdaas jee probably meant children but now I am thinking that we should translate ਸੁਤ as "Sons" and not "Children".

Kulbir Singh

Very interesting. Veer Ji, it seems, what you prefer to call degree of love; I have observed a different type of love in that. What you prefer to call lower degree of love; I have happened to call it not-love but something else. Anyway, I will try again to explain further my point.

1.We never go to kiss our parents out of love; but we do do that for our sons. It gives us a hint that love for parents is of different nature. A mother can be seen weeping if his son is suffering from some problem or pain. But we do not weep; if our parents are in hospital. I am talking about general human nature.

2.ਜੈਸੇ ਮਾਤਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਚਿਤ ਚਾਹਤ ਹੈ ਸੁਤਨ ਕਉ ਤੈਸੇ ਨ ਸੁਤਨ ਚਿਤ ਚਾਹ ਉਪਜਾਵਈ ॥
The translation above in english finds proportion term; which I cannot see. If given chance to translate; I will do like that. "As the parents love their sons from their very heart; similar love or affection is not sprouted or produced (ਉਪਜਾਵਈ) in the hearts of the sons.

3.ਜੈਸੇ ਮਾਤਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਸੁਤ ਸੁਖ ਦੁਖ ਸੋਗਾਨੰਦ ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ ਮੈ ਨ ਤੈਸੇ ਸੁਤ ਠਹਰਾਵਈ ॥
As the parents are happy or unhappy in the happiness and problems of their son; in their own ਦੁਖ ਸੁਖ; the son can not behave like that they do.

4. ਨਾਲਿ ਇਆਣੇ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਵਡਾਰੂ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ॥ ਪਾਣੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਲੀਕ ਜਿਉ ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਥਾਉ ਨ ਥੇਹੁ ॥੪॥
May be something related with this point; is also there in the above Pankiti.

Thank you Veer Ji; in advance.

Bhul Chuk Maaf Hove Ji.

Good Vichaar Bhai MB Singh jeeo.

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1.We never go to kiss our parents out of love; but we do do that for our sons. It gives us a hint that love for parents is of different nature. A mother can be seen weeping if his son is suffering from some problem or pain. But we do not weep; if our parents are in hospital. I am talking about general human nature.

About kissing, I would say that the expression of parental love changes as the child grows. There is more kissing and cuddling when the child is young. This does not mean that the love is reduced, just the way of expressing changes.

You have rightfully written that a mother feels more pain if her child is hospitalized as compared to a child whose parent is hospitalized but I don't think we can say that there is no love at all.

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2.ਜੈਸੇ ਮਾਤਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਚਿਤ ਚਾਹਤ ਹੈ ਸੁਤਨ ਕਉ ਤੈਸੇ ਨ ਸੁਤਨ ਚਿਤ ਚਾਹ ਉਪਜਾਵਈ ॥
The translation above in english finds proportion term; which I cannot see. If given chance to translate; I will do like that. "As the parents love their sons from their very heart; similar love or affection is not sprouted or produced (ਉਪਜਾਵਈ) in the hearts of the sons.

The presence of adverbs ਜੈਸੇ and ਤੈਸੇ show the proportion. Where Daas used the word "proportion", you used "similar". In any case Bhai Gurdaas jee does say that the degree or amount of love that parents have for their children as compared to what children have for their parents, is not same.

And yes, the translation that you give is closer to the original than this Daas. I gave a lose translation, so that the idea expressed in the Kabit is understood.

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4. ਨਾਲਿ ਇਆਣੇ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਵਡਾਰੂ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ॥ ਪਾਣੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਲੀਕ ਜਿਉ ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਥਾਉ ਨ ਥੇਹੁ ॥੪॥
May be something related with this point; is also there in the above Pankiti.

Please try to make the connection for the benefit of the Sangat. I am sure this pankiti can be connected to the Kabit of Bhai Sahib.

Thank you so much for taking Gurmat Vichaar to profound levels.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

ਨਾਲਿ ਇਆਣੇ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਵਡਾਰੂ ਸਿਉ ਨੇਹੁ ॥
Friendship with a fool, and love with a pompous person,

ਪਾਣੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਲੀਕ ਜਿਉ ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਥਾਉ ਨ ਥੇਹੁ ॥੪॥
are like lines drawn in water, leaving no trace or mark. ||

Veer Ji, I understand these pankities as saying that both, the friendship with a child and love with an aged person; are very short lived. Please correct me.