Analysis of words ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ as used in Gurbani March 05, 2010 07:44AM |
Re: Analysis of words ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ as used in Gurbani March 06, 2010 04:22PM |
Re: Analysis of words ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ as used in Gurbani March 07, 2010 04:41PM |
Re: Analysis of words ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ as used in Gurbani March 07, 2010 11:43PM |
In Gurbani word shiv means God who is formless.
ਸਿਵ ਸਿਵ ਕਰਤ ਸਗਲ ਕਰ ਜੋਰਹਿ ਸਰਬ ਮਇਆ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਤੇਰੀ ਦੋਹੀ ॥
Siva siva karat sagal kar jorahi sarab maiaa thaakur teree dohee:
Everyone calls upon You with their palms pressed together, chanting Your Name, "Siva Siva".
O Merciful Lord, everyone cries out for Your Help
ang 207
We also get shiv meaning as Hindu Devta.Normally he appears with a specific refrence or in company of other devtas.
ਆਪੇ ਸਿਵ ਸੰਕਰ ਮਹੇਸਾ ਆਪੇ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਅਕਥ ਕਹਾਣੀ
ang 553
Literal meaning of siva in shabad of chandi charitra ukti bilas is parvati.But it is being used as a metaphor for akal purakh. In the same way as krishan murare in the following verse is used as metaphor for akal purakh
gurmukh sangee krisan muraaray.
The Lord Krishna becomes the Gurmukh's Companion.
ang 98, SGGS ji
Jeonwala and his missionary friends need to understand that one word has multiple meanings and meanings change with respect to context of use.
Re: Analysis of words ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ as used in Gurbani March 08, 2010 08:40AM |
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Literal meaning of siva in shabad of chandi charitra ukti bilas is parvati.But it is being used as a metaphor for akal purakh.
Re: Analysis of words ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ as used in Gurbani March 08, 2010 09:29AM |
Bhai sahib ji
I did not say that Guru sahib is asking boon from devi.I said though literal meaning of siva is wife of shiva that is parvati but this word is being used as metaphor for akal purakh.That is why i gave an example of ang 98 where krishna is used as metaphor for akal purakh.Dr Jodh singh ji writes in his translation of Dasam granth as below
ਦੇਹ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਰ ਮੋਹਿ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਭ ਕਰਮਨ ਤੇ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਟਰੋਂ ॥
O shiva( literally chandi or wife of God shiva but here an attributive name for the all powerful Real one) Shower this blessing on me
unquote
You have correctly analysed Guru sahib's belief by quoting the beginning verses of Chandi Charitra. In Dasam Granth Guru sahib uses lot of metaphors to convey his point.At many places Guru sahib writes as
Ab Devi ji ku ustat
It does not mean it is praise of any multi armed Devi. It is again akal purakh.The message is that words have multiple meanings and should be understood in the right context especially in dasam Granth where Guru sahib has used metaphors extensively to convey the meanings that God is supreme.
Re: Analysis of words ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ as used in Gurbani March 08, 2010 09:42AM |
My mistake Bhai Inder Singh jeeo, for misinterpreting your original statement. Indeed, this name is for Parvati and sometimes for Shiva too, but here this name is being used for Vaheguru. Similarly Gobind, Muraari, Madhusoodan etc. are names of Siri Krishna but in Gurbani these names are used for Vaheguru.
Kulbir Singh
Re: Analysis of words ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ as used in Gurbani March 08, 2010 07:32PM |
Bhai sahib ji
In Chandi charitra ukti bilas, Devtas led by Indra seek help of Durga for fighting demon mehkhasur.She fights and kills Mehkhasur, restores kingdom to Indra and goes back to mountains for bhagti.
Demons come back and defeat Devtas again and take control of the kingdom back.Then they approach Durga again.
See word siva in the following line for Durga
ਖੇਤ ਜੀਤ ਦੈਤਨ ਲੀਓ ਗਏ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਭਾਜ ॥
The demons conquered the war the gods ran away.
ਇਹੈ ਬਿਚਾਰਿਓ ਮਨ ਬਿਖੇ ਲੇਹੁ ਸਿਵਾ ਤੇ ਰਾਜ ॥੭੨॥
The gods reflected in their mind and decided to take Durga's help to get their kingdoom back72.
Chandi Charitra ukti bilas
The above is a narration of Chandi charitra based on the story in Markandey purana.But Guru sahib has calrified his belief in Akal purakh as supreme God when he writes in the beginning
ਤਾਰਨ ਲੋਕ ਉਧਾਰਨ ਭੂਮਹਿ ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰਨ ਚੰਡਿ ਤੁਹੀ ਹੈ ॥
Lord you are chandi, who ferries across the people; Thou art the redeemer of the earth and destroyer of the demons.
ਕਾਰਨ ਈਸ ਕਲਾ ਕਮਲਾ ਹਰਿ ਅਦ੍ਰਸੁਤਾ ਜਹ ਦੇਖੇ ਉਹੀ ਹੈ ॥
You are source of Shiva's ( Eis) power , also of Vishnu , lakhshami and parvati.Wherever i see you are there.
Chandi charitra Ukti bilas
Dohra of "Deh siva bar mohe hain" also denotes belief of Guru sahib which is in line with invocation and hence Siva denotes akal purakh irrespective of its literal meaning being anything.
Problem with Joenwala and his missionary friends is that they interpret Chandi charitra per Hindu Puranas.Hindu puranas ( Markandey purana from where this story is taken) consider Durga as supreme Goddess.But Guru sahib has changed her dimensions and moulded her to fit in sikh view by describing her a creation and under control of akal purakh.
Re: Analysis of words ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ as used in Gurbani March 09, 2010 06:39AM |
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Can you please explain the meaning ਵਿਆਈ in "ਏਕਾ ਮਾਈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਵਿਆਈ ਤਿਨਿ ਚੇਲੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥".
From what I read it means created as in, Vaheguru created Maya and from that Maya created the three disciples.
Please confirm
Re: Analysis of words ਸਿਵ ਸਕਤਿ as used in Gurbani March 09, 2010 06:41AM |