Why Western Sikhs shy away from other Sikhs?

I travel to and from work in a public train and I have noticed the following:

1) Monnay who are brought up in Canada are reluctant to associate with Keshadharis.

2) Monnay from India have no problem associating with Keshadharis.

3) Keshadharis from Canada shy away from other keshadharis.

4) Keshadharis from India have no problem associating with other Keshadharis.

Many times it is seen that Singhs from Western countries just walk by you without even making eye contact or giving you a chance to say Fateh. In a train or bus, they avoid sitting with you. There was a time, in 1980s, when a Singh used to come running to greet another Singh but now things have changed here in Toronto. Nevertheless, sometimes you do meet a warm hearted Singh and this meeting makes your day. The other day, I was having a walk in downtown Toronto when a Singh who was standing across the street stopped and loudly said fateh with folded hands. He himself was wearing a White dumaala and baana. It made my day. In olden days Singhs used to meet each other even more warmly.

But for the most part, Sikhs avoid each other. Even if two keshadharis from Canada are sitting together, they are almost always talking in English. Once I happened to sit with two Keshadhari (one of them was an amritdhari) persons who were in their thirties. We were coming back from work and sitting in a public transit train. They both kept talking in English and were talking about Hockey, Baseball and other stuff that goray would talk about. I kept sitting as a spectator and in about 10 minutes my patience ran out. I said to one of them, who was acting like a gora, as follows:

Kulbir Singh: ਭਾਈ ਬੱਸ ਕਰ ਹੁਣ। ਮੇਰੇ ਤਾਂ ਕੰਨ ਦੁਖਣ ਲੱਗ ਪਏ ਹਨ ਗੋਰਿਆਂ ਵਾਲੀ ਗਫਤਗੂ ਸੁਣ ਸੁਣ ਕੇ। (O friend, please cut it out now. My ears have started aching listening about baseball, hockey etc). I must say that two fully keshadhari and amritdhari persons sitting together and talking in English about Baseball and Hockey look very absurd.

Keshadhari Number 1: (Getting defensive), what is wrong with speaking English. I have not read it anywhere in Gurbani that speaking English is wrong.

Kulbir Singh: So you must be speaking English at home with your wife and children, right?

Keshadhari Number 1: Of course I do. I am not comfortable with speaking in Punjabi.

Kulbir Singh: At least, you can converse in Punjabi but I have a feeling that your children cannot speak even one sentence in Punjabi. You probably are able to understand and speak Punjabi since your parents spoke Punjabi to you but your children will not speak Punjabi at all because you don’t speak Punjabi to them.

Keshadhari Number 1: As I said before, I don’t think there is any problem with not speaking Punjabi and speaking English only.

Kulbir Singh: But how will you understand the message of Gurbani then?

Keshadhari Number 1: I have access to translations. This is the new age Singh jee. When we can read translations, then what is the need to learn the old language of Gurbani?

Kulbir Singh: But why do you want to rely on a third person to interpret Gurbani for you? Isn’t it better to get the message of Gurbani directly from Gurbani?

Keshadhari Number 1: It does not matter whether I get the message directly or indirectly. As long as I get the message of Gurbani, I will be fine.

Kulbir Singh: How would you have Anand in Gurbani Kirtan if you don’t understand some Gurbani? How will you or your children understand Katha at Gurdwara Sahib?

He kept arguing like this but in the end, after much persuasion, he agreed that we should understand Punjabi and that learning Punjabi can help us become better Sikhs.

I think it is our duty to learn Punjabi and ensure that our kids learn Punjabi. All our scriptures are in Punjabi and if we don’t learn Punjabi, how will we understand them? Why depend on a third person to interpret simple verses of Gurbani?

Coming back to the subject, I think it is really bad that now-a-days, a Sikh shies away from a Sikh and avoids him. In olden days, Singhs used to long for darshan of other Singhs and this is evident from Gurbani pankitis like:

ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਕੀ ਹਰਿ ਧੂੜਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਹਮ ਪਾਪੀ ਭੀ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਂਹਿ ॥
(O Hari, give me the dust of charan of Gursikhs, so that sinner like me may be saved).

ਆਇ ਮਿਲੁ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਆਇ ਮਿਲੁ ਤੂ ਮੇਰੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ ॥
(Come meet me O Gursikh, O my Guru’s beloved, come meet me)


Kulbir Singh

it's very sad to see that in an age when non-punjabi sikhs struggle to learn punjabi, people who know the language from birth are so ready to give it up.

it's interesting what you say about canadian sikhs not acknowledging each other on the street. i wonder if that has something to do with the large population? where i live, there are so few sikhs, i can count the amritdharis on my fingers. we're always so amazed to see another sikh that it's like a magnet pulling us towards each other for a warm fateh. it's like seeing a long lost brother/sister. i complain a lot about lack of sangat in my area, but if more sangat means we loose that feeling of family, maybe less sangat is ok.

i
> wonder if that has something to do with the large
> population? where i live, there are so few
> sikhs, i can count the amritdharis on my fingers.
> we're always so amazed to see another sikh that
> it's like a magnet pulling us towards each other
> for a warm fateh. it's like seeing a long lost
> brother/sister. i complain a lot about lack of
> sangat in my area, but if more sangat means we
> loose that feeling of family, maybe less sangat is
> ok.


I think this can be the case. WHen I was living in the UK there were so many Singhs that everybody would not say Fateh to each other. I dont think thats right but I think they just got use to seeing Sikhs, but when I moved back to the U.S. it was natural to be happy when you see another Singh since there are not many in the U.S.. I think Toronto like the UK also has a large Sikh population

Vaheguroo!

Hum Rooltey firtey koi baat naa poochta

Veerji, Earlier I use to feel like this even at Jatha Samagams, even people I knew ( especially youngsters born in US/Canada) use to ignore me and I am from Sri Amritsar Sahib, if you see a Singh with open flowing beard or Keski wali bibi. You can expect a Fateh full of tremendous love.

I remember how Singhs in Villages will even call you from the street for parshada at their house. I miss that culture here sometimes.

I never experienced this attitude with Indian born Singhs, as you said even Monay from India are also very friendly.

Punjabi is definitely a key factor, My Singhni is still learning punjabi but no matter what we still try to speak in punjabi with each other ( may be very little but we try).

I don't want my kids to have a behavior of ignoring fellow Sikhs or even Monay. Love is the root of Sikhi and I personally think that punjabi is a bond of love between two Sikhs.No matter where we are/ what we do., we should always try to speak punjabi at home ( if not at workplace).

After spending many years here in US, I don't bother anymore but on my front I always try to goahead and wish " Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh" to any sikh I see/meet. Afterall Panj Pyaras told us that Guru's mukh is towards the person who initiates the Fateh.

Bhul chuk di khima ji!

Vaheguru JI Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

When I went back to United Arab Emirates (where I grew up all my life) after taking Amrit, my father (who is a Hindu) noticed my delight any time I saw a Singh. Whether it was a truck driver or a construction worker, I would have a 500 watt smile on my face. On certain occassions I would even go upto them and start talking. One day my father saw me waving and smiling to a Singh who was driving a truck, and the Singh did the same. My father smiled and asked "What is it with you sardars? Is it some special sort of connection? You meet each other like you've known each other forever!" I smiled and tried to explain that this is the kind of connection we have, that we get delighted to meet another Sikh of the same Guru whom we love so dearly.

This connection is a great gift Khalsa Ji. No other community has it, and cannot have it, because they don't have vakhri peshaan like the Khalsa. In Islamic countries I know for a fact that Singhs meet each other with a lot more pyaar and satkaar as compared to India or western countries. But the other "regular sardars" don't really bother when they see you. I used to laugh and say, that when a Singh sees me or I see them, we are delighted. But when a "regular sardar" sees me, he makes a face which has the expression saying "oh leh! oye tu vi hega ethe! tu kitho aa giya?", (oh my gosh, you are here too? where did you come from!) hahahahaha!!!!

Dear brother "not Mahapapi" jeeo, the culture of our villages was so great. People who did not even know you would ask you, even beg you to eat from their house. Hospitality was the Dharma of our people. If a guest came to one house in a village, the whole village used to get excited and enthusiastic and used to consider the guest as its own.

Daughter or sister of one person in a village was the daughter and sister of the whole village. Son-in-law of one household of a village was the son-in-law of the whole village. Our culture was so lofty that marriage in the same village was considered impossible because all residents of a village were considered to be brothers and sisters. If a village girl ever got teased by outsiders, even many miles away from the village or in the city, the boy from the same village would be willing to give his life for her honour. Everyone in the village genuinely used to consider each other as their brothers and sisters.

Love that could be experienced from your village is nowhere to be found now. This love is even drying from the villages now but still it is many times better than Western countries.

People before the Internet revolution i.e. people of the seventies and eighties were very simple and straightforward. I am fortunate enough to have experienced love from the village folks. All elderly women in our village (and my naanke) were my Maanjee or Biji. All elderly men were Bapoo jee. There were countless Chacha jees and Mama jees, and Chachee jees and Maamee jees, depending on whether you were in your own village or your Naanke (your mothers village) . Everyone just gave so much love that I always wanted to stay there.

Even the animals were loaded with love. I can’t ever forget the buffalos, cows, calves, oxen, male buffalos of our village. Even these animals could express more love than humans today. I remember many of them individually. I used to ride on them all day and they never got upset. It was a fun to bathe them in the nearby canal. I learned swimming from our buffalos. I used to catch tail of our buffalo and learn swimming. In due time I became a good swimmer, all because of our buffaloes.

I remember a very funny story from my childhood. I was about 8-9 years old then. One of our cows gave birth to a male calf. This calf was so cute that I thought it was the most beautiful creature in the world. I used to play with this new born calf all day and never got tired of it. I was extremely fond of it. I had a cousin visiting us. He was about 12-13 years elder to me and I was very fond of him too.

One day at evening time, the whole family was sitting together and they asked me how I was getting along with my cousin. I said, “I like him very much. He reminds me of my favourite Vacchha (calf).” Now I was trying to praise him but what I did not know was that I was actually embarrassing him. Everyone got curious as to why he reminds me of the Vachha and they asked me. I replied, “He plays with me like my Vachha does and his face too resembles the Vachha.” Honest to God, I said this to flatter him since I used to think that the Vachha was the most beautiful creature on Earth and that my cousin would be happy to hear that he looks like this Vachha but when I said this, his face became red and he got very upset. Others laughed a lot. I still think he resembled my cute little Vachha. Later on he beat me up for calling him a Vachha. Hehe!!

Sorry to go off topic but this story reminds me of another story. There was once a Julaaha (ones who do weaving) who had a goat. He was very fond of this goat. Once this Julaaha went to the village mosque and joined others in offering Nimaaz (Muslim prayer). After the Nimaas, the Maulvi started giving sermon. While the Maulvi was giving sermon, the Julaaha started shedding tears. Then he started sobbing and crying. Everyone was surprised to see that the Julaaha was getting all this Bairaag hearing the Maulvi’s speech because this Julaaha was not known to be a religious person. The Maulvi too got pumped up and started talking even more passionately. The Julaaha kept showing bairaag. After the sermon, people surrounded the Julaaha and asked him why he got so much Bairaag or if he had a spiritual vision that made him so Bairaagmai. The Julaaha still sobbing said that the Maulvi’s face, especially his beard resembled his goat that died last month. He was crying because of that. When the Maulvi heard that the Julaaha thought he looked like a goat, he got very upset and beat him up. The Julaaha was surprised as to what wrong he had done.

Sorry for going off topic but what I wrote above was not planned. It just happened.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

if you luv guru, you ought to love sikhs too. how can you not?

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear brother "not Mahapapi" jeeo, the culture of
> our villages was so great. People who did not even
> know you would ask you, even beg you to eat from
> their house. Hospitality was the Dharma of our
> people. If a guest came to one house in a village,
> the whole village used to get excited and
> enthusiastic and used to consider the guest as its
> own.
>
> Daughter or sister of one person in a village was
> the daughter and sister of the whole village.
> Son-in-law of one household of a village was the
> son-in-law of the whole village. Our culture was
> so lofty that marriage in the same village was
> considered impossible because all residents of a
> village were considered to be brothers and
> sisters. If a village girl ever got teased by
> outsiders, even many miles away from the village
> or in the city, the boy from the same village
> would be willing to give his life for her honour.
> Everyone in the village genuinely used to consider
> each other as their brothers and sisters.
>
> Love that could be experienced from your village
> is nowhere to be found now. This love is even
> drying from the villages now but still it is many
> times better than Western countries.
>
> People before the Internet revolution i.e. people
> of the seventies and eighties were very simple and
> straightforward. I am fortunate enough to have
> experienced love from the village folks. All
> elderly women in our village (and my naanke) were
> my Maanjee or Biji. All elderly men were Bapoo
> jee. There were countless Chacha jees and Mama
> jees, and Chachee jees and Maamee jees, depending
> on whether you were in your own village or your
> Naanke (your mothers village) . Everyone just gave
> so much love that I always wanted to stay there.
>
> Even the animals were loaded with love. I can’t
> ever forget the buffalos, cows, calves, oxen, male
> buffalos of our village. Even these animals could
> express more love than humans today. I remember
> many of them individually. I used to ride on them
> all day and they never got upset. It was a fun to
> bathe them in the nearby canal. I learned swimming
> from our buffalos. I used to catch tail of our
> buffalo and learn swimming. In due time I became a
> good swimmer, all because of our buffaloes.
>
> I remember a very funny story from my childhood. I
> was about 8-9 years old then. One of our cows gave
> birth to a male calf. This calf was so cute that I
> thought it was the most beautiful creature in the
> world. I used to play with this new born calf all
> day and never got tired of it. I was extremely
> fond of it. I had a cousin visiting us. He was
> about 12-13 years elder to me and I was very fond
> of him too.
>
> One day at evening time, the whole family was
> sitting together and they asked me how I was
> getting along with my cousin. I said, “I like
> him very much. He reminds me of my favourite
> Vacchha (calf).” Now I was trying to praise him
> but what I did not know was that I was actually
> embarrassing him. Everyone got curious as to why
> he reminds me of the Vachha and they asked me. I
> replied, “He plays with me like my Vachha does
> and his face too resembles the Vachha.” Honest
> to God, I said this to flatter him since I used to
> think that the Vachha was the most beautiful
> creature on Earth and that my cousin would be
> happy to hear that he looks like this Vachha but
> when I said this, his face became red and he got
> very upset. Others laughed a lot. I still think he
> resembled my cute little Vachha. Later on he beat
> me up for calling him a Vachha. Hehe!!
>
> Sorry to go off topic but this story reminds me of
> another story. There was once a Julaaha (ones who
> do weaving) who had a goat. He was very fond of
> this goat. Once this Julaaha went to the village
> mosque and joined others in offering Nimaaz
> (Muslim prayer). After the Nimaas, the Maulvi
> started giving sermon. While the Maulvi was giving
> sermon, the Julaaha started shedding tears. Then
> he started sobbing and crying. Everyone was
> surprised to see that the Julaaha was getting all
> this Bairaag hearing the Maulvi’s speech because
> this Julaaha was not known to be a religious
> person. The Maulvi too got pumped up and started
> talking even more passionately. The Julaaha kept
> showing bairaag. After the sermon, people
> surrounded the Julaaha and asked him why he got so
> much Bairaag or if he had a spiritual vision that
> made him so Bairaagmai. The Julaaha still sobbing
> said that the Maulvi’s face, especially his
> beard resembled his goat that died last month. He
> was crying because of that. When the Maulvi heard
> that the Julaaha thought he looked like a goat, he
> got very upset and beat him up. The Julaaha was
> surprised as to what wrong he had done.
>
> Sorry for going off topic but what I wrote above
> was not planned. It just happened.
>
> Daas,
> Kulbir Singh


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

Bhai Sahib you are THE BEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kulbir Singh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I travel to and from work in a public train and I
> have noticed the following:
>
> 1) Monnay who are brought up in Canada are
> reluctant to associate with Keshadharis.
>
> 2) Monnay from India have no problem associating
> with Keshadharis.
>
> 3) Keshadharis from Canada shy away from other
> keshadharis.
>
> 4) Keshadharis from India have no problem
> associating with other Keshadharis.


i'd like to add one more to the list...

5) 3HO sikhs shy away from other sikhs.

we have a small but friendly sangat in our town. but the 3HO sikhs meet in a yoga studio, separate from the rest of the sangat. they establish separate gurdwaras in every city where they have a large presence. every time i have seen 3HO sikhs in public they have avoided eye contact completely. this has been true both in the US and in India.

>
> i'd like to add one more to the list...
>
> 5) 3HO sikhs shy away from other sikhs.
>
> we have a small but friendly sangat in our town.
> but the 3HO sikhs meet in a yoga studio, separate
> from the rest of the sangat. they establish
> separate gurdwaras in every city where they have a
> large presence. every time i have seen 3HO sikhs
> in public they have avoided eye contact
> completely. this has been true both in the US
> and in India.


I would have to strongly disagree with you.Personally I find American Sikhs to be much more friendly and tolerant then Punjabi Sikhs. I went to a nagar kirtan a few years back which was organized by American Sikhs. Though the nagar Kirtan was mainly organized by American Sikhs who were part of Yogi BHajan Jis group, these SInghs made an effort to collaborate with Punjabi Sikhs and other Gurdwaras. At the Nagar Kirtan many of the American Sikhs would smile at me and say Fateh. I was so happy to see such Sikhs who loved and lived Sikhi.

American Sikhs seem to be much more organized and more enthusiastic to spread Sikhi then Punjabi Sikhs. Many of the American Sikhs have dedicated their life in spreading Sikhi and encouraging people to take Amrit. They seem to be very genuine in their interest in spreading the Sikh Dharam. They have Think tanks, and educational/religious institutions. This is remarkable knowing they havent been into SIkhi for long period of time. Punjabi Sikhs have been living in the US for over 100 years . Besides big houses, nice cars , and lots of land what do we have to show for it?

I remember a few years ago there was an article that mentioned American Convert Sikhs going to Punjab to do Parchar. The Punjab Sikhs were ashamed of themselves that they needed people outside of Punjab to come and preach Sikhi in the land were Sikhi was born. Punjabi Sikhs seem more interesting in making money, getting political chairs, and creating more and more groups.

I remember speaking to an American Singhni on a religious chat site a few years ago. She mentioned to me how she goes to a Punjabi Gurdwara and gets treated like a second class Sikh. She also mentioned the Punjabi boys tell her son that he doesnt belong at the Gurdwara because he is white. I remember when I was speaking to her I was a mona who was completely far from SIkhi. SHe was so nice to me and really inspired me to further look into Sikhi. I remember when I started keeping my Kes I would ask the Granthis to teach my to tie a dastar, and they would tell me they were to busy or I should ask someone else.

I remember a few years back a white Singh came to our Gurdwara a couple of days before new years. He was sick and needed a place to stay for a couple of days. THe commitee refused to let him stay and were even hesitant in letting him come to the darbar sahib to matha tekh. But my brother made sure he was allowed to at least matha tekh. I dont blame American Sikhs in being hesitant in communicating with Punjabi Sikhs.

Personally I believe many Punjabi Singhs are narrow minded and dont show love with one another. I remember when I went to Punjab for the first time. It was the first time I ever heard of a Ramgharia Gurdwara, Ravidas Gurdwara, and Jatt Gurdwara. The pendoos were the most ignorant of Sikhi beliefs. No offense to anyone but Punjab seems to me like a "dog eat dog" world. There is no sense of community, and nobody really cares or have feelings for one another.

I have also seen PUnjabi Singhs treat each other like sworn enemies just because another Singh belongs to another group. It seems likes a SIngh with a dumalla is not suppose to get along with a Singh with a goal style dastar. While gangs disassociate each other through color these SInghs associate with each other due to style of dastar. It seems like the Israellis and Palestinians treat each other with more decency then Singhs attached to their personal cliques/groups or as I like to call them castes. I remember one day I went to the Gurdwara I saw a group of Singhs wearing choley and 1984 shirts. i was happy to see a group of Singhs proud of their Sikhi. I started smiling and as I approached to say Fateh they turned their back. I then went to the restroom when I came out I saw them staring at me like they were ready to jump me, and I dont even wear a dumalla, lol. many times I have seen Taksali Singhs run outside the Darbar like theyve seen a ghost as soon as the AKJ come to the Gurdwara to do Kirtan. This is definitely Kaljug when a SIngh runs away from Gurus Kirtan.. This group based mentality has been the hardest thing for me to accept when coming into Sikhi this type of grouping is hard to accept for someone who went to public schools where everyone of all cultural or religious backgrounds learned to respect and get along with one another.

sorry for letting out my frustration

Guru Piyario,

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

Daas was thinking to reserve comments on this culture clash issue. I have mixed feelings on this issue but I must say Bhai Sukhdeep Singh's post steered the thread in interesting direction. Very close to what daas felt from experience. Sikh children who are born and brought up in west are mostly of reserve nature. They do not open up so easily with strangers even if he/she is a Singh/Singhni. They are grown up like that which is as same as other children in their respective countries. They were taught in schools and at homes not to talk to strangers (which itself is good due to need) but this phenomena was quite opposite in Punjab. Children had more liberty on this issue and they were taught to always wish to elders and love the younger ones if they meet to some one on the way. I am not saying this principle is not existing in western countries but what I am saying is children were more liberal in this field. But once western Sikh children are open with you they will never forget to wish you. That is where the big difference lies. On the other hand now we have this new dark Punjabi mentality which is very well explained by veer jee and Daas feels this needed more attention than western Sikhs.

With Regards,
Daas,
Jasjit Singh

I saw this quote at work today and it reminded me of this thread.

"We were put on this earth not to see through each other, but to see each other through" ~Author Unknown

Meaning we shouldnt treat each other as they are invisible are non-existing, but instead try to help people.

This quote also reminded me of this shabad

[www.sikhitothemax.com]

sukhdeep singh veerji, it seems you and i have had different experiences.

when i first became interested in sikhi, i was so excited to see white sikhs. i guess i thought they'd be happy to see me too. but instead they mostly ignored me, or looked at me like i was an alien. this hasn't been true of all white sikhs, only those associated with 3HO. when i found AKJ, i was really happy to see a handful of white sikhs practicing sikhi the way i understood it. they were friendly and open and interacted with everyone as SIKHS, not as white or brown or whatever. i think that's how we're supposed to be, sons and daughters of Guru sahib. not divided by race or sect or where we were born. i guess that's why i felt so at home with the jatha.

i don't mean to generalize all 3HO sikhs, i'm just sharing my personal experiences. i'm glad your experience has been so positive. it's refreshing to hear.

Around 1975, when white sikhs were few and visited Amritsar, they were very much impressed by Bhai Fauja Singh Ji. They enjoyed his sangat. Things changed afterwards as they grew in number. --------------I too agree with Bhein Ji, about their ignoring behaviour. I haa had also negative experience with them.-----------------Yet I am glad with their Sikh Saroop.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

Kulbir Singh ji,

It's best to treat everyone as an individual.

Meaning, not judge a religion, race, caste, nationality etc for the actions of individuals.

Good as well as bad is present in each and every individual, leave aside community.

In regards to the experience let me remind you of the well known saying
"Don't judge a book by it's cover"

Everybody is at a different religious or spiritual level whether it is East or West.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
Waheguru ji ki fateh

BJ Singh jeeo,

Quote

It's best to treat everyone as an individual.

Meaning, not judge a religion, race, caste, nationality etc for the actions of individuals.

Good as well as bad is present in each and every individual, leave aside community.

In regards to the experience let me remind you of the well known saying
"Don't judge a book by it's cover"

Everybody is at a different religious or spiritual level whether it is East or West.

Advice accepted, Singh jeeo. My intention was not to promote prejudice against Western Sikhs but what I wrote was my experience. I think it is not about spirituality but about culture. The dominant culture of a country or area does have impact on its residents. I think this has more to do with culture and it is not about good or bad. The culture of villages of Punjab that I wrote in my posts above did impact the residents. The people in general used to be more friendly and the urban population for the most part is cold and does not mix up like rural people. All this due to different cultures of different places.

Sorry if my post came across as judgemental or demeaning.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

If the issue is about English then why the double standard of writing/typing in English? Why not do vichaar in punjabi instead of english on this message board? Praatan singhs wrote letters in gurmukhi then why do we fall behind and write in English?

akaali ji,

i think this discussion board is for learning about gurmat bibek. many of us are not born in punjab and do not have fluency in the punjabi language. while i (and i would assume others) always embrace the opportunity to learn more of the language, it's also important to be able to understand the concepts being presented.

i would suggest a compromise, things typed in punjabi could be followed by a short explanation in english. this would help those of us who are still learning to practice our punjabi, as well as allowing us to follow the conversation.

thoughts?

Akaali jee,

Quote

If the issue is about English then why the double standard of writing/typing in English? Why not do vichaar in punjabi instead of english on this message board? Praatan singhs wrote letters in gurmukhi then why do we fall behind and write in English?

This daas is always willing and prefers to do vichaar in Punjabi. You may have noticed that Bhai Jasjit Singh and I write in Punjabi every now and then. Having said that, I never said that we should not speak or learn English, Hindi, Farsi, Urdu or any other language. My point was that Gursikhs should have a good command over Punjabi language, so that it may assist us in understanding Gurbani and Sikh literature. For this, it is a good idea to converse within our families and friends in Punjabi.

Janaab, your point is well taken. Let us all make an effort to write and read more Punjabi.

Kulbir Singh