Fateh during Nitnem Bania!

ੴਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫ਼ਤਹ॥

Khalsa Jio,

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

Daas was also noticing this since few years in some Jatha Smagam in U.S/Canada and did not wanted to brought this up but recently another Singh jee who came from India also noticed this new innovation and discussed with daas that this is not right to say Fateh during Nitnem after every Baani. As far daas knows from experience with old Singhs of Jatha the Nitnem was always Akhand, it was never interrupted by Fateh or Jakaara until the completion of Nitnem. Few years back I was attending an Amritvela Smagam here, first time I heard the Fateh after Sri Jap ji Sahib, hearing this I got very surprised and immediately started to think that with just one Bani is Nitnem is concluded? Then seconds later another Singh jee started Sri Jaap Sahib and Fateh was repeated again and again after every Baani. That was very surprising experience. Nitnem should be Akhand as we do Keertan Akhand no Fateh after change of any Keertani Singh/Singhni. Fateh should be at concluding part not at intermediate stage. I think we should preserve this Maryada. We should not start copying others for no reason.

With Regards,
Daas

I totally agree with Bhai Jasjit Singh jee that Nitnem is Akhand and the Fateh should be said only after completion of all 5 Baanis. We see this when Punj Pyare prepare Amrit. Fateh is not said after each Baani but only at the end of Punj Baanis.

Kulbir Singh

it's possible that this simply isn't common knowledge. when we listen to nitnem on CDs, most of them do fateh after each bani. since many of us learned our nitnem this way, it's easy to see where one would pick up this habit. it wasn't until i attended my first amrit vela at an AKJ samagam that i learned we shouldn't do fateh between banis. so maybe we just need to politely explain this to people?

Many thanks for pointing this out. Never realized this! Few more questions though (and I am asking because they just came up in my head and I seriously want help, not asking just for sake of asking)...

(1) if not Fateh, then what is to be recited after each of the Nitnem Banis after they are completed? Also, what is to be recited at the beginning of the Nitnem (i.e. beginning of Japji Sahib) and also at the beginning of each subsequent Bani?

(2) if someone does only some Ashtapadis a day of Sri Sukhmani Sahib, can this be part of the regular Nitnem or should these be done separately after 5 Bani Nitnem and Ardas is done?

(3) do we say Fateh after reciting some Ashtapadis or what else can we say? How would one start the paath if they are starting from (let’s say) the 9th Ashtapadi, and if they do some Ashtapadis and stop after 16 Ashtapadis, so do they say Fateh?

(4) if one is doing extra paath during the day, whether it is Mool Mantar, or Chaupai Sahib, or Japji Sahib, or Gurmantar simran, what is to be said at the beginning and end? I know simran should be saas giraas but still curious about extra paths of Banis during the day.

(5) some GurSikhs start and end Nitnem with the Salok Gurdev Mata Gurdev Pita...is there anything else to be recited at beginning or end?

I may get hit by more questions by baander mann (monkey mind) so please bear with me. Just trying to improve a hopeless jeevan. I don’t have much hope from this janam anwyays, but still whatever is left I want to try to improve. Baki te Guru Maharaj karaun vaale ne asi kakh jogge nai

Please help

Thanks

- Mehtab Singh

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(1) if not Fateh, then what is to be recited after each of the Nitnem Banis after they are completed? Also, what is to be recited at the beginning of the Nitnem (i.e. beginning of Japji Sahib) and also at the beginning of each subsequent Bani?

After completion of one Baani, you just begin the next one. There is no need to say anything. As an example, after completing Siri Jap jee Sahib, you would just start Siri Jaap Sahib.

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(2) if someone does only some Ashtapadis a day of Sri Sukhmani Sahib, can this be part of the regular Nitnem or should these be done separately after 5 Bani Nitnem and Ardas is done?

The above talk was about Nitnem only. Siri Sukhmani Sahib and Siri Asa keeVaar is part of Nitnem (everyday Paath) of many Gursikhs. And yes, extra Baanis are done after Nitnem but one Ardaas can be done for all morning Nitnem, Abhyaas and extra Baanis.

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(3) do we say Fateh after reciting some Ashtapadis or what else can we say? How would one start the paath if they are starting from (let’s say) the 9th Ashtapadi, and if they do some Ashtapadis and stop after 16 Ashtapadis, so do they say Fateh?

If you have to stop after doing few Ashtpadis of Siri Sukhmani Sahib, you could say Fateh.

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(4) if one is doing extra paath during the day, whether it is Mool Mantar, or Chaupai Sahib, or Japji Sahib, or Gurmantar simran, what is to be said at the beginning and end? I know simran should be saas giraas but still curious about extra paths of Banis during the day.

No need to say anything before or after but many Gursikhs say Gurmantr few times or a small Benti begging for concentration. There is no set rule.

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(5) some GurSikhs start and end Nitnem with the Salok Gurdev Mata Gurdev Pita...is there anything else to be recited at beginning or end?

This Salok is recited at the beginning and end of Siri Bavan Akhri. There is no compulsion or Maryada to recite this Salok at the beginning and ending of Nitnem. There is no harm in doing so either. It's a beautiful Salok that brings peace to the mind.

Kulbir Singh

Dhannvaad Bhai Sahib jeeo

My thoughts were reflecting on this matter for the past few days. Thanks for the clarification. Yes, 5 bani should be done as done in Amrit Sanchar mandal.

Dass tends to make it a point to say fateh after Naam Abhiyaas to Sri Vahiguroo jee.(which is before nitnem) Can't recall where dass learned this. But, what do the abhiyaasi jans you know do?

Chota veer

Forgot to add, that the question dass posed refered to Amritwela abhiyaas.

Chota veer

I started saying Fateh after each Bani, whilst listening to Sant Kartar Singh Ji's Nitnem. From what I've been told, Taksal also say Fateh after each Bani during Amrit Sanchar. There is obviously a slight variation in Maryada, but I don't think it matters either way. The main focus should be that one does thier Nitnem

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ?

Chota veer

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Nitnem Gutka from Budda Dal has Fateh at end of every Bani. Just as an FYI.

To some extent, there are going to be variations as to how even every Gursikh does Nitnem. As long as the Nitnem as given by the Punj Pyare to each Gursikh is present and the Gursikh is doing Paath out of prem, such minor variations should not be given too much attention. Some read Paath fast, some slow - shall we also set a words per minute parameter? Some read Shabad Hazarae in the morning Nitnem, even though that is not a prescribed Bani in Nitnem...what of them?

If Sikhi is a game of love, then please accept that love is expressed by each Gursikh differently. The Father-Mother - Guru Sahib/Akaal Purakh knows this and accepts love from the child in whatever form. The Rehat, Gurmat and Gurbani serves as the fence in which the Sikh exists - what that Sikh does within the parameter of that fence is part of the unique display of that prem.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

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Some read Shabad Hazarae in the morning Nitnem, even though that is not a prescribed Bani in Nitnem...what of them?

That is worth notice, the point. Shabad Hazare or other Baani, which are recited alongwith Nitnem, in between the FIVE BAANI also break the continuity of NITNEM. So, the next question could be like that; " Should the additional Baani (Other than five ones), if any, be recited in between NITNEM or after completing the NITNEM of five Baani ?" (By the way, please do share, how the SINGHS do. Pooran Ji used to add many Bani during Amrit Wela sessions before it was ANAND SAHIB.)

As ms514 Veer Ji says, these variations should not be given a seroius attention. Something else is more important.

Regarding FATEH after each Bani, I feel that it depends on the person or the group. It seems unnessary after each Baani if it is a mature group. But if it is a youth camp of beginners, it may not be a odd thing. Children need to be given the hint that Japuji is over.

piyasi veer jee, from sangat of Gursikhs I noticed the following:

If Gursikhs are getting together just for Naam Abhiyaas (no Nitnem) then Fateh will be uttered after conclusion of naam abhiyaas. However if Nitnem is going to happen as well then Fateh is done after 5 Banis completed, usually when naam abhiyaas time is coming to and end someone will just out loud start reciting mool mantar 5 times then Sri Jap Ji Sahib will begin and rest of 5 Banis will continue without any break. So in your case, no Fateh is required after Naam Abhiyaas, can just carry straight onto mool mantar and Sri Jap Ji Sahib.

Above points raised by ms514 jee and MB Singh jee are also valid, many Singhs recite Sri Jap Ji Sahib, Shabad Hazare, Sri Jaap Sahib, Shabad Hazare P: 10, Tv Prasaad Svaiaye Sravag, Tv Prasaad Svaiaye Deenan, Tv Prasaad Chaupai, Sri Anand Sahib in that order. Master Jaswant Singh Jee has also published Gutka Sahib in this order, and even Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh Jee has written the Banis in this order in the PaaTha Da Naksha. So if Paath is being done like this, I think Fateh should be done after each Bani.

I think the logic Bhai Jasjit Singh Jee is using; is that the morning 5 Banis are a set of 5, Nitnem is not complete without all 5. So if one is doing them consecutively in order, as a set of 5, Fateh would be uttered after the full set completed. However, for example in the daytime if someone is just going to recite 1 Bani out of the 5 as extra Paath, Fateh would be said after that.